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[ANN] Pharo Consortium New Academic Member: UniversitÃ© de Maroua

by Marcus Denker

The Pharo Consortium is very happy to announce that the UniversitÃ© de Maroua has joined the Consortium as an Academic Member. About - UniversitÃ© de Maroua: http://www.univ-maroua.cm/ - Pharo Consortium: http://consortium.pharo.org The goal of the Pharo Consortium is to allow companies and institutions to support the ongoing development and future of Pharo. Individuals can support Pharo via the Pharo Association: - http://association.pharo.org

Nov. 12, 2019

Re: [Pharo-dev] two issues: GC and wrong pointers

by Tudor Girba

Hi, Yes, I know itâs not a good public bug report. That is why I asked for help. The problem is that this is not easily reproducible outside of specific cases. We encountered it in the context of GT which has double the code as compared to Pharo. So, to test it outside of GT, for the last couple of weeks we manipulated some data in plain Pharo, and we still got to the problem a couple of times (though it appears less often). We do not know yet how to reproduce it with anonymous data. That is why I said that some pairing might help. In parallel we are trying to reproduce it, like we do with all other bug reports. Cheers, Doru > On Nov 12, 2019, at 8:00 AM, ducasse <stepharo(a)netcourrier.com> wrote: > > > >> On 11 Nov 2019, at 12:57, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> During our work we encountered two issues we think should be considered critical. >> >> The first is that the garbage collector is unreliable on larger images: >> https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/issues/391 >> We stumble on this when we manipulate larger pieces of data quite consistently in plain Pharo (7 or 8). We lack the knowledge of how to approach it, but we would happily pair and try to reproduce it with someone. > > > Doru > > To me this is not really a good bug report. > How can we reproduce it? > What is a big image? > > The first thing to do is to get a simple reproducible case. > This is what pavel did with the crash on normal images. > Can you see if you can do something like that? > It will help us trying to fix it. > > S. > > > -- feenk.com "What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?"

Nov. 12, 2019

Re: [Pharo-dev] two issues: GC and wrong pointers

by ducasse

> On 11 Nov 2019, at 12:57, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > During our work we encountered two issues we think should be considered critical. > > The first is that the garbage collector is unreliable on larger images: > https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/issues/391 > We stumble on this when we manipulate larger pieces of data quite consistently in plain Pharo (7 or 8). We lack the knowledge of how to approach it, but we would happily pair and try to reproduce it with someone. Doru To me this is not really a good bug report. How can we reproduce it? What is a big image? The first thing to do is to get a simple reproducible case. This is what pavel did with the crash on normal images. Can you see if you can do something like that? It will help us trying to fix it. S.

Nov. 12, 2019

Re: [Pharo-dev] make github issues clearer?

by Myroslava Romaniuk

hi Stef On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 at 11:16, ducasse <stepharo(a)netcourrier.com> wrote: > Yes sometimes describing it takes more time than fixing it. > if that is the case, then maybe you should just fix it. easy issues are cool in theory but if they are not sufficiently explained they will not be of any use to beginner devs who want to contribute, either. if you are creating an easy issue and marking it 'beginner', the description should be level-appropriate. and in general there are templates that make this whole process easier/faster because you have some things pre-filled and you have section descriptions that helps you quickly remember the things you need to describe. my whole point was about optimising this process on the org level: individual contribution certainly counts for something, but there's no need to reinvent the wheel. best, Myroslava

Nov. 11, 2019

Re: [Pharo-dev] two issues: GC and wrong pointers

by Tudor Girba

Thanks Marcus! Alistair reviewed the issue (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/5120) and the pull request looks great. Cool work :). Cheers, Doru > On Nov 11, 2019, at 3:51 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > >> On 11 Nov 2019, at 15:04, ducasse <stepharo(a)netcourrier.com> wrote: >> >> marcus I read your fix and I do not understand why the previous way was a problem. >> What was your hypothesis? >> > > I think the problem is that it forces recompiling methods while already loading code, which leads to some strange effect.. that I think > the MethodChanged that monticello does at the end references the old method, but that got recompiled in the meantime. > > Something like that. > >> Stef >> >>> On 11 Nov 2019, at 14:46, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> During our work we encountered two issues we think should be considered critical. >>>>>> >>>>>> The first is that the garbage collector is unreliable on larger images: >>>>>> https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/issues/391 >>>>>> We stumble on this when we manipulate larger pieces of data quite consistently in plain Pharo (7 or 8). We lack the knowledge of how to approach it, but we would happily pair and try to reproduce it with someone. >>>>>> >>>>>> The second one is that the sources contain wrong pointers, and this makes it hard to work with TFFI: >>>>>> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4967 >>>>>> This is already marked as important. We spent quite some time investigating this, especially in the context of TFFI, and we would be happy to pair to work through it. >>>>>> >>> >>> I think my PR fixes itâ¦ the PR is green and the downloaded artefact seems to not show any problematic methods anymore: >>> >>> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/5120 >>> >>> >>> >>> Marcus >> > -- feenk.com "To utilize feedback, you first have to acquire it."

Nov. 11, 2019

Re: [Pharo-dev] two issues: GC and wrong pointers

by Marcus Denker

> On 11 Nov 2019, at 15:04, ducasse <stepharo(a)netcourrier.com> wrote: > > marcus I read your fix and I do not understand why the previous way was a problem. > What was your hypothesis? > I think the problem is that it forces recompiling methods while already loading code, which leads to some strange effect.. that I think the MethodChanged that monticello does at the end references the old method, but that got recompiled in the meantime. Something like that. > Stef > >> On 11 Nov 2019, at 14:46, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr <mailto:marcus.denker@inria.fr>> wrote: >> >> >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> During our work we encountered two issues we think should be considered critical. >>>>> >>>>> The first is that the garbage collector is unreliable on larger images: >>>>> https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/issues/391 <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/issues/391> >>>>> We stumble on this when we manipulate larger pieces of data quite consistently in plain Pharo (7 or 8). We lack the knowledge of how to approach it, but we would happily pair and try to reproduce it with someone. >>>>> >>>>> The second one is that the sources contain wrong pointers, and this makes it hard to work with TFFI: >>>>> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4967 <https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4967> >>>>> This is already marked as important. We spent quite some time investigating this, especially in the context of TFFI, and we would be happy to pair to work through it. >>>>> >> >> I think my PR fixes itâ¦ the PR is green and the downloaded artefact seems to not show any problematic methods anymore: >> >> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/5120 <https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/5120> >> >> >> >> Marcus >

Nov. 11, 2019

Re: [Pharo-dev] two issues: GC and wrong pointers

by ducasse

marcus I read your fix and I do not understand why the previous way was a problem. What was your hypothesis? Stef > On 11 Nov 2019, at 14:46, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> During our work we encountered two issues we think should be considered critical. >>>> >>>> The first is that the garbage collector is unreliable on larger images: >>>> https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/issues/391 <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/issues/391> >>>> We stumble on this when we manipulate larger pieces of data quite consistently in plain Pharo (7 or 8). We lack the knowledge of how to approach it, but we would happily pair and try to reproduce it with someone. >>>> >>>> The second one is that the sources contain wrong pointers, and this makes it hard to work with TFFI: >>>> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4967 >>>> This is already marked as important. We spent quite some time investigating this, especially in the context of TFFI, and we would be happy to pair to work through it. >>>> > > I think my PR fixes itâ¦ the PR is green and the downloaded artefact seems to not show any problematic methods anymore: > > https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/5120 <https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/5120> > > > > Marcus

Nov. 11, 2019

Re: [Pharo-dev] two issues: GC and wrong pointers

by ducasse

May be we have two problems then :( Because we have problem without a large image. Stef > On 11 Nov 2019, at 14:44, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > For the GC problem from https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/issues/391, there is no threading involved. Just invoking full GC in a large image. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > >> On Nov 11, 2019, at 1:47 PM, ducasse <stepharo(a)netcourrier.com> wrote: >> >> Hi doru >> >> >> Can you tell us more? How many threads are running? how many times did you save the image? >> Pablo is investigating a bug related to the GC that happens when we have many threads and saved the image >> multiple times. He was on it since a couple of days. >> >> Now Pablo is attending Smalltalks and will be on vacation until end of the month. >> Guille is on father leave and coming back to work one day a week. >> >> So we are concerned about this problem but we cannot really allocate people on it before beginning of december. >> >> S. >> >>> On 11 Nov 2019, at 12:57, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> During our work we encountered two issues we think should be considered critical. >>> >>> The first is that the garbage collector is unreliable on larger images: >>> https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/issues/391 >>> We stumble on this when we manipulate larger pieces of data quite consistently in plain Pharo (7 or 8). We lack the knowledge of how to approach it, but we would happily pair and try to reproduce it with someone. >>> >>> The second one is that the sources contain wrong pointers, and this makes it hard to work with TFFI: >>> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4967 >>> This is already marked as important. We spent quite some time investigating this, especially in the context of TFFI, and we would be happy to pair to work through it. >>> >>> Would anyone be available for a collaboration in the following days? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> -- >>> feenk.com >>> >>> "Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done." >>> >>> >> >> >> > > -- > feenk.com > > "Value is always contextual." > > > > > > >

Nov. 11, 2019

Re: [Pharo-dev] two issues: GC and wrong pointers

by Marcus Denker

>>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> During our work we encountered two issues we think should be considered critical. >>> >>> The first is that the garbage collector is unreliable on larger images: >>> https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/issues/391 >>> We stumble on this when we manipulate larger pieces of data quite consistently in plain Pharo (7 or 8). We lack the knowledge of how to approach it, but we would happily pair and try to reproduce it with someone. >>> >>> The second one is that the sources contain wrong pointers, and this makes it hard to work with TFFI: >>> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4967 >>> This is already marked as important. We spent quite some time investigating this, especially in the context of TFFI, and we would be happy to pair to work through it. >>> I think my PR fixes itâ¦ the PR is green and the downloaded artefact seems to not show any problematic methods anymore: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/5120 <https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/5120> Marcus

Nov. 11, 2019

Re: [Pharo-dev] two issues: GC and wrong pointers

by Tudor Girba

Hi, For the GC problem from https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/issues/391, there is no threading involved. Just invoking full GC in a large image. Cheers, Doru > On Nov 11, 2019, at 1:47 PM, ducasse <stepharo(a)netcourrier.com> wrote: > > Hi doru > > > Can you tell us more? How many threads are running? how many times did you save the image? > Pablo is investigating a bug related to the GC that happens when we have many threads and saved the image > multiple times. He was on it since a couple of days. > > Now Pablo is attending Smalltalks and will be on vacation until end of the month. > Guille is on father leave and coming back to work one day a week. > > So we are concerned about this problem but we cannot really allocate people on it before beginning of december. > > S. > >> On 11 Nov 2019, at 12:57, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> During our work we encountered two issues we think should be considered critical. >> >> The first is that the garbage collector is unreliable on larger images: >> https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/issues/391 >> We stumble on this when we manipulate larger pieces of data quite consistently in plain Pharo (7 or 8). We lack the knowledge of how to approach it, but we would happily pair and try to reproduce it with someone. >> >> The second one is that the sources contain wrong pointers, and this makes it hard to work with TFFI: >> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4967 >> This is already marked as important. We spent quite some time investigating this, especially in the context of TFFI, and we would be happy to pair to work through it. >> >> Would anyone be available for a collaboration in the following days? >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> -- >> feenk.com >> >> "Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done." >> >> > > > -- feenk.com "Value is always contextual."

Nov. 11, 2019