- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] ConfigurationOf and Git

by Max Leske

Hi Gabriel, Looks ok to me. Take a look at https://github.com/theseion/LibGit/blob/master/BaselineOfLibGit.package/Bas…. I think youâll find all your use cases in that baseline. As for loading: Metacello new baseline: #LibGit; repository: 'github://theseion/LibGit:master'; load. Metacello new baseline: #LibGit; repository: 'github://theseion/LibGit:master'; load: 'developmentâ. HTH, Max > On 20 Oct 2015, at 05:05, Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I was wondering if something like this can work: > > Given a ConfigurationOfProject (a subclass of ConfigurationOf) defining: > > stable: spec > <symbolicVersion: #stable> > spec for: #'pharo4.0.x' > do: [spec > baseline: 'Project' > with: [ spec repository: 'github://username/Project:stableForPharo4/']]. > spec for: #'pharo5.0.x' > do: [spec > baseline: 'Project' > with: [ spec repository: 'github://username/Project:stableForPharo5/']]. > > > > where stableForPharo4 and stableForPharo5 are tags in the git repo (and assuming the BaselineOfProject is defined in this commits). Is this supposed to work : > > Metacello new > configuration: 'Project'; > repository: 'github://username/Project:master'; > version: #stable; > load. ?? > > I've tried using a non-symbolic version and it works but I can't make it work for #stable. I'd like to use this configuration for the Configuration Browser/Catalog Browser. > > Any help is appreciated.

Oct. 20, 2015

ConfigurationOf and Git

by Gabriel Cotelli

I was wondering if something like this can work: Given a ConfigurationOfProject (a subclass of ConfigurationOf) defining: stable: spec <symbolicVersion: #stable> spec for: #'pharo4.0.x' do: [spec baseline: 'Project' with: [ spec repository: 'github://username/Project:stableForPharo4/']]. spec for: #'pharo5.0.x' do: [spec baseline: 'Project' with: [ spec repository: 'github://username/Project:stableForPharo5/']]. where stableForPharo4 and stableForPharo5 are tags in the git repo (and assuming the BaselineOfProject is defined in this commits). Is this supposed to work : Metacello new configuration: 'Project'; repository: 'github://username/Project:master'; version: #stable; load. ?? I've tried using a non-symbolic version and it works but I can't make it work for #stable. I'd like to use this configuration for the Configuration Browser/Catalog Browser. Any help is appreciated.

Oct. 20, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo:

by Robert Withers

Thank you Ron, I'll look into it. Regards, ... ^^ robert On 10/19/2015 06:25 PM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote: > Hi Robert, > > I went back and reviewed and this is what I sent to BIS. > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/cryptography/2006-January/00011… > > Not much to it but we got a lot of advice from SFLC first. > >>From our research OS projects are allowed to host cryptographic code and make available for anyone to download. BUT that does not exclude users of the code from being restrained from exporting that code to any USA identified restricted entities. For example: http://www.state.gov/j/ct/list/c14151.htm > > I would recommend at the very least to register the repo with the BIS for Pharo, but I would also contact the SFLC to verify nothing has changed. > > All the best, > > Ron > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of >> Robert Withers >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 5:28 PM >> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list; 'Chris Muller' >> Cc: 'Pharo Development List' >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] >> RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: >> >> (resending with Pharo list) >> >> Ron, would it be an easy process to add a second URL to the exception >> paperwork. Pharo does have new ideas about code storage and distribution >> that we would want to take advantage of. This would help a lot! >> >> Then again, screw their paperwork requirements of us. Put my name as >> responsible on the Pharo code and I'll take a trip to Cuba, if they need a >> scape goat for their 20th century thinking. Crypto is already out of the bag >> and everyone uses it freely. Just do it and ask permission later. >> >> In thinking about consolidating crypto code between squeak and pharo, I >> would guess there would be a thin capatibility layer for each system, then >> the Crypto code in the main. My goal is to have compatibility, crypto and >> plugins on both virtual platforms. >> >> Thanks so much ^^ >> >> Robert >> >> On 10/19/2015 05:17 PM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote: >>> Hi Chris, >>> >>> The exemption is not for the location of the server but the URL where it is >> hosted. I'm happy to help in any way I can but I don't have access to the >> Pharo Repos. I have no issue with having Pharo packages on SqueakSource if >> that is what everyone agrees too. We have multiple packages hosted there. >> It's ok with me if we host some pharo code there too. >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> Ron >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Chris Muller [mailto:ma.chris.m@gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 3:59 PM >>>> To: Ron Teitelbaum >>>> Cc: Pharo Development List; The general-purpose Squeak developers >>>> list >>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] >>>> RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: >>>> >>>> Heh, well, since then SqueakSource itself was moved to a different >>>> server in a different country. I guess there was also a mirror of >>>> SqueakSource hosted in Chile under a different URL for many years. >>>> >>>> I'm doubtful any of it matters, but we wouldn't want anyone to end up >>>> in Gitmo over it. If you're uncomfortable about hosting a copy >>>> elsewhere, then please at least namespace-prefix the Pharo-specific >>>> packages, to at least help keep it from becoming a tangled mess. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Ron Teitelbaum <ron(a)usmedrec.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> Unless someone filed the proper paperwork I would suggest NOT moving >>>> the cryptography code anywhere except for SqueakSource. When we >>>> started the project we spent time ensuring that we had a proper >>>> exemption from the U.S. regulations on exporting cryptographic code. >>>> If someone copied and forked the code that exemption may not still >>>> apply to that new repository. >>>>> >>>>> I'm not personally involved with the code on Pharo, not sure who is >>>>> doing >>>> crypto there. >>>>> >>>>> All the best, >>>>> >>>>> Ron >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On >>>>>> Behalf Of Chris Muller >>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 2:47 PM >>>>>> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list >>>>>> Cc: Pharo Development List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] >>>>>> RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, if a common package for both Squeak and Pharo is possible, >>>>>> that'd be great. Otherwise, the Squeak and Pharo versions should >>>>>> reside in separate repositories. Squeak users are still using >>>>>> squeaksource.com, Pharo moved to smalltalkhub and beyond.. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Robert Withers >>>>>> <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> hey Ron, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It was actually the Pharo Cryptography team I was thinking of. >>>>>>> Perhaps we can get the same package to work in both squeak and >>>>>>> Pharo, with use of installable entropy sources or the like. In >>>>>>> order to get SqueakElib running in Pharo I need crypto and we may >>>>>>> as >>>> well do it right. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Robert >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10/19/2015 02:28 PM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Robert, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You are already on the Cryptograph repo on SqueakSource.com as an >>>>>> admin. >>>>>>>> Please feel free to reorg if you like. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Let me know if you have trouble resurrecting your account. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All the best, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ron >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:squeak-dev- bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org] On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Robert Withers >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 1:53 PM >>>>>>>>> To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] [Pharo-dev] [Cryptography port to >>>>>>>>> Pharo] RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is great guys. Is there a way to get this from the image? >>>>>>>>> Good to get >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> with an FFI/OSProcess call or something. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>> Robert >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10/19/2015 08:58 AM, Louis LaBrunda wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Guys, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> How about getting the CPU temperature. I think most CPUs >>>>>>>>>> support "Digital Thermal Sensor" (I'm not sure about ARM). I >>>>>>>>>> think it is seven bits. The real range should be less than >>>>>>>>>> that but it may be enough to help add some entropy. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Lou >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 19 Oct 2015 07:39:19 -0400, Robert Withers >>>>>>>>>> <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Ron , nice to see you too! It has been a number of years, >>>>>>>>>>> hasn't >>>> it? >>>>>>>>>>> Crypto is timestamped back in 2010, so there is is. I hope >>>>>>>>>>> these have been kind years to you, as they have for me. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I love the idea of optional sources of entropy, depending on >>>>>>>>>>> the deployed capabilities. So there are our mouse points and >>>>>>>>>>> such, because they ought to be optional. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What are some reliably present sources in the most minimal >>>>>> situation? >>>>>>>>>>> If we could define minimal as an image with no image level I/O >>>>>>>>>>> beyond file I/O, I would think we'd have: Kernel, System, >>>>>>>>>>> Collections, Compiler and FFI. Some intransitives in that >>>>>>>>>>> scope for entropy would be >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> grand. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking to take 5 millisecondClockValues, separated by >>>>>>>>>>> 4 non-secure random intervals: take the low order byte of the >>>>>>>>>>> 4 intervals and reverse & concat them, as a entropic source. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I can coordinate these changes. Ron, could you add me to the >>>>>>>>>>> Cryptography team so I can upload the Pharo Cryptography >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> #bleedingEdge? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks and I look forward to more, :) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Robert >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/18/2015 02:38 PM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Robert, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Nice to see you! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Looks interesting I know that Chris did something gathering >>>>>>>>>>>> sources of >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> entropy. Seems like the more the better. Could you just make >>>>>>>>> the entropy sources optional such that if they exist we use them? >>>>>>>>> I would have to go back and see what Chris did but he was >>>>>>>>> following suggestions from Schneider in his secureRandom. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> All the best, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ron Teitelbaum >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Robert Withers >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 5:00 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list; Pharo >>>>>>>>>>>>> Development List >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] >>>>>>>>>>>>> RandomGenerator >>>>>>>>>>>>> class>>unpredictableStringsDo: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry, I forgot the code. I list the existing method, >>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by my modified Pharo method below. I welcome any >>>>>> feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Existing: >>>>>>>>>>>>> unpredictableStringsDo: aBlock >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Enumerate sources of information from my >>>>>>>>>>>>> environment that >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> be generally hard to guess." >>>>>>>>>>>>> | time | >>>>>>>>>>>>> time := Time millisecondsToRun: >>>>>>>>>>>>> [ aBlock >>>>>>>>>>>>> value: World imageForm bits >>>>>>>>>>>>> compressToByteArray ; >>>>>>>>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint x asString ; >>>>>>>>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint y asString ; >>>>>>>>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue >>>>>>>>>>>>> asByteArray ; >>>>>>>>>>>>> value: Date today asString ; >>>>>>>>>>>>> value: Time now asString ; >>>>>>>>>>>>> value: Display extent asString. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 100 timesRepeat: [ aBlock value: UUID new ]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> #(vmVersion platformName primVmPath >>>>>>>>>>>>> imageName >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> platformSubtype >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> datedVersion lastQuitLogPosition vmStatisticsReportString >>>>>>>>>>>>> imageName) >>>>>>>>>>>>> collect: >>>>>>>>>>>>> [ : each | >>>>>>>>>>>>> aBlock value: (SmalltalkImage >>>>>>>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>>>>>> perform: each) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> asByteArray >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ] ]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> aBlock >>>>>>>>>>>>> value: time asByteArray; >>>>>>>>>>>>> "maybe the pointer has moved, hit it again." >>>>>>>>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint asString ; >>>>>>>>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue >>>>>>>>>>>>> asByteArray >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Pharo port: >>>>>>>>>>>>> unpredictableStringsDo: aBlock >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Enumerate sources of information from my >>>>>>>>>>>>> environment that >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> be generally hard to guess." >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> | time | >>>>>>>>>>>>> time := Time millisecondsToRun: >>>>>>>>>>>>> [ aBlock >>>>>>>>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue >>>>>>>>>>>>> asByteArray ; >>>>>>>>>>>>> value: Date today asString ; >>>>>>>>>>>>> value: Time now asString. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 100 timesRepeat: [ aBlock value: UUID new ]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> #(version primImagePath imagePath >>>>>>>>>>>>> datedVersion >>>>>>>>>>>>> lastQuitLogPosition) >>>>>>>>>>>>> collect: >>>>>>>>>>>>> [ : each | >>>>>>>>>>>>> aBlock value: (SmalltalkImage >>>>>>>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>>>>>> perform: each) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> asByteArray >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ] ]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> aBlock >>>>>>>>>>>>> value: time asByteArray; >>>>>>>>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue >>>>>>>>>>>>> asByteArray >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/18/2015 04:23 AM, Robert Withers wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a message intended for anyone who was on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cryptography >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> team. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently ported it to Pharo and had to make changes to >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> RandomGenerator >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> class>>unpredictableStringsDo:. This certainly removed some >>>>>>>>>>>>>> class>>uncertainty >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the results of this message. My question is what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> should I do about that? This method seems to require >>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-headless, as it is checking the mouse point and such. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This being a crypto cornerstone, what the best answer here. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> Louis LaBrunda >>>>>>>>>> Keystone Software Corp. >>>>>>>>>> SkypeMe callto://PhotonDemon >>>>>>>>>> mailto:Lou@Keystone-Software.com http://www.Keystone- >>>>>> Software.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> > > >

Oct. 20, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] Re: Random forest in Pharo

by Robert Withers

Hi Ben, ... ^^ robert On 10/19/2015 11:06 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 7:55 PM, Robert Withers > <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Thank you for your response, Ben. I'm here to help where I may be helpful, >> so let me know where. I have interest in the Pi and the ARM simulator was >> expressed as an area needing more resources. 64-bit is the strategic effort, >> so if I can help. > > You may find these interesting... > * http://forum.world.st/ARM-Cog-progress-td4827195.html > * http://markmail.org/message/tfqa4lgriw6xchh3 > * http://www.slideshare.net/esug/pharo-arm-status Thank you, their in my vm list of reading. > >> I'd hope we could agree that whether is goes 64-bit then MT (which is what's >> up) or MT then 64-bit (as I was so rashly suggesting) there will be an >> integration cost. > > Agreed, but I guess the former shares that cost amongst more people. Yes, good point. I am happy with having the MY discussion, only at this time, and helping the broader effort as you point out so that cost is less. > >> As 64-bit is a Spur ObjectMemory effort and MT is a >> process/stack oriented facet, are they not orthogonal and fairly >> non-interfering, aside from a few touch points. If there is integration >> cost, why not proceed in parallel? > > Naturally you'll get more support working in an area where the vm devs > *need* more help, but I can't judge this. I'm not familiar with what > the interference points might be. > Maybe this helps... > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2014-October/016781.html Thank you again, for later consumption. > >> Certainly the discussion about what exactly MT is seems alright. > > Sure. MT has several meanings. Its good to scope a common understanding. Yes, it's good. > >> I'm guessing the answer to that you have mentioned: resources. We need a >> bunch of hardcore CompSci students to catch the fire. >> >> Please let me know where I can help best. Rapport is key to team, this I >> have experienced. > > I learn a lot listening in on [vm-dev], but I've still only dabbled > around the fringe of the vm. The best reference is Eliot overall and > Esteban from a Pharo perspective. > btw, have you seen... > * http://www.mirandabanda.org/cogblog/cog-projects/ I had seen those. Sista sounds interesting as does an event vm. Isn't the event vm solved by the MTVM? Cheers, Robert > > cheers -ben > > >> Regards, >> Robert >> >> >> On 10/18/2015 11:56 AM, Ben Coman wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 2:25 AM, Robert Withers >>> <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Yes, exactly. I do realize I was consciously changing that effort >>>> synchronization order. >>> >>> >>> I see 64-bit being higher priority than multi-threaded for the wider >>> community. Dealing with larger in-Image data opens the door to more >>> corporate project/funding opportunities. Also simplifying the install >>> on modern Linux platforms without requiring additional 386 libraries >>> will help acceptance there. >>> >>>> It is my humble opinion, without really knowing, that 64-bit would have >>>> to be redone after the MTVM completes. >>> >>> >>> I would assume it was the other way around. Presuming that Eliot has >>> sponsors influencing his priorities, it seems given that 64-bits will >>> happen first. I would guess any MTVM development on the old vm would >>> then need to be reworked. >>> >>>> I was doing so with the idea in mind that I and others >>>> might dig into working on the VM, for threading support, while Eliot >>>> maintains focus on 64-bits...a tall order, I know. >>> >>> >>> The usual downside of splitting resources applies. There are not that >>> many "others" and maybe they would be drawn away from helping with the >>> 64-bit vm. If the 64-bit vm goes slower for lack of resources then >>> your footing for MTVM will shifting for a longer time. You may >>> ultimately get where you want to go faster by helping with the 64-bit >>> vm. The rapport built with other vm devs from working on 64-bit might >>> could then be applied to MTVM. (Of course, its your free time, so you >>> should pursue what interests you.) >>> >>>> I was barely familiar with the VM, slang, interpreter, it years ago... >>>> I'm totally unfamiliar with cog. >>> >>> >>> The experience you gain from working beside Esteban and Eliot on >>> 64-bit Cog/Spur could then be applied to a MTVM. >>> >>> btw, you may find these threads interesting... >>> * >>> http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-dev_lists.pharo.org/2015-April/10864… >>> * >>> http://forum.world.st/Copy-on-write-for-a-multithreaded-VM-td4837905.html >>> >>> cheers -ben >>> >>>> I believe another item on that list ought to be modernizing slang. So >>>> many big items! >>>> >>>> Robert >>>> >>>> On 10/16/2015 12:48 PM, Stephan Eggermont wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 16-10-15 14:05, Robert Withers wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Because of that assumption I've made and without the responsibilities >>>>>> you have, Esteban, but recognizing modernizing NB to FFI, my desired >>>>>> list is: >>>>> >>>>> I would expect the least total effort to be needed by keeping the work >>>>> of Esteban and Eliot as much as possible aligned. That is what Esteban's >>>>> list achieves. >>>>> >>>>> Stephan

Oct. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] Re: Random forest in Pharo

by Robert Withers

Hi Eliot, ... ^^ robert On 10/19/2015 10:10 AM, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > Hi Robert, > > _,,,^..^,,,_ (phone) > > On Oct 19, 2015, at 5:03 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com > <mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> Could you please help me by talking further about the different models >> and scopes of what is meant by MT? >> >> a) MT-FFI I believe gives the developer a way to call and be invoked >> on callback, asynchronously. Is it so? > > It's a bit more than that. It is the sharing of the VM between > different threads, but only allowing one thread to own the VM at any one > time, changing ownership in call out or Smalltalk process switch time. > This approach provides interleaved concurrency but not parallelism in > your Smalltalk code and it means the Smalltalk class library doesn't > have to be made thread-safe, which as Esteban said is a huge task. > > See > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2011-January/038943.ht… > > and google "eliot Miranda Simmons own thread" to find more messages. > > >> b) General MTVM means other system services are threaded, like I/O >> events and scheduling and heartbeat. > > No; at least not in my opinion. In the standard single-threaded VM the > heartbeat is ideally a thread (it can be an interval timer, but that's > problematic; system calls get interrupted), and maybe an incremental > global GC could be in its own thread. > > So I'm defining the MTVM to be the sharing of the VM between threads, I apologize if I am off the rails again, Eliot. I must watch that. Let's see if I can express it right. I think, not entirely sure mind you, that I am talking about single threading the image and not sharing the VM between different threads. I need to read the links you provided and hopefully you'd welcome discussion about alternatives, long as it doesn't consume your needed time; that's your discretion, I acknowledge. Why change owners of the vm process and deal with thread contention edge cases? If you put a Elib-style vat in the core of the vm and run a single-osthread instance image, you get hydra, soft virtual semaphores, threaded FFI and real virtualization, as all external vat communication must go through the vats' queue. All plugins would have to be changed to talk through the scheduling queue as pointers to function calls, sort of thing - continuations queue? Perhaps outbound calls as well so no thread-safing the plugins... > and /not/ just the use of threads to implement non-Smalltalk sub tasks I suppose I'm thinking of it more as this, yet it seems your goal is to not have to thread safe the plugins, which is safe & reliable. This I understand. Perhaps both are possible, by placing a queue in front of every thread, preparatory or sensory worker threads or main image thread. This is where I'm at with my thinking. I'd welcome your thoughts. > of the VM, and /not/ a full-blown multithreaded Smalltalk VM providing I see this as an escalation of your idea, surely too much and violating encapsulation of decentralization. I think shared memory is bad and copyOnWrite sort of thing is much better. Yet perhaps in some cases. Do all store bytecodes lock the page they access? > concurrent execution of Smalltalk processes in parallel. Hydra is with separate threads for separate images, isn't it? A new Hydra, with an elib vm automatically gets this if we enforce all inter-vat communications go through each vat's queue. Does the question come down to complexity, then? May be too much. > >> I think that the right model (my stack/priQueue/pool intuition?) will >> change a Herculean task into a fairly straightfoward task and >> achievable. Change the problem, to get better answers. > > This has been well thought through and discussed. The definition above > is very useful. It provides a system that can inter operate with > concurrent code without having to implement a system that provides > parallelism. It is used in David Simmons' VMs for S# etc and a similar > (but less performant) scheme is available in Python VMs. I would love to learn more about it. > > Please, let's get this scheme working first. I'm not at all happy > (read, extremely unhappy) that there is not much focus on working > together to get our current VM to an excellent state and instead lots of > work on other VMs that is speculative and a long way away from being > production ready. Thank you for discussing and defining multi-threading; I welcome it. Thanks as well for the task specification... I put this together, with a few details from some of the other emails, mostly sub-tasks. However, I did not see ARM or Pharo modernization on the list, so I added those. You'll find a Word doc and pdf attached, thank you! This is most beneficial to have a bird's eye view. So I added the "Current items in play" ... We have a huge amount of work to do on Cog: > > - event-driven VM (that hence costs 0% processor time at idle) > - 64-bits (x64 and ARM and...?) > - Sista adaptive optimizer > - FFI via dynamic generation of marshaling code, as required for > efficient and correct call outs on x64 > - MTVM as defined above > - an incremental global mark-sweep GC for Spur > - running on Xen/Unikernels/containers > - providing a JavaScript plugin to proved rendering and events so we can > run an efficient VM in a web browser > - a port of the Interpreter/Context VM to Spur > > IMO, things that can /and should/ wait are > - throwing away Slang and providing a true written-in-pure-Smalltalk VM > that is self-bootstrapped a la Gerardo Richarte and Xavier Burroni > - a truly parallel multi/threaded VM > > and things we shouldn't go anywhere near are > - using libffi > - targeting JavaScript, Java or any other dynamic language de jour that > happens to run in a web browser but either provides abysmal performance > or doesn't support full Smalltalk semantics > - implementing the VM in other VM frameworks such as PyPy which simply > strengthens that community and weakens our own > > Right now there are only a handful of people who make commits to the VM > and three who are "full time", and we're all overloaded. But the VM is > the base of the pillar and if we want to provide high-quality solutions > that people will pay money to use we have to have a high-quality VM. In > Spur we have a VM that is significantly faster that VW, and very > reliable. In Sista we will have a system that is much faster and can be > improved upon for years to come and a system that can migrate to future > VMs (because it is mostly Smalltalk), and useful support for a high > quality FFI. People like have stepped up and made significant > contributions to give us what is a respectable VM that is on an arc to > providing a really high-quality production Smalltalk VM written in > Smalltalk produced by a very small community. But it is now 2015 and > Cog started 7 years ago. All the work on other VMs, deployment platforms > etc, IMO dilutes and delays in delivering to our community a truly > world-class VM that we can compete with against Java HotSpot, node.js > v8, lua luajit, factor, swift et al. Please get on board. We'd love the > help and we can guarantee you'll have fun and you can guarantee you'll > have an impact. What else can man want in life that the opportunity to take up challenges when life so graciously lays these obstacles in one's path. It stuns me what you all have done. Truly amazing the targets and varieties you offer. A smÃ¶rgÃ¥sbord of multiple generated VMs. Amazing. Unless you feel otherwise, I think I will focus on 2, 4 & 5 of the current items: - 64-bit vm support - MTVM discussions - Pharo support and modernization I love Pharo and what they have done and are doing - it's fantastic and I want to make an impact there as well. They really need FileDirectory, though, if only a wrapper, as compatibility code for VMMaker.oscog. :) > >> >> I appreciate you and this MT discussion. Thank you , Robert >> >> >>> Said that: >>> >>> - What is in plans is MT-FFI, and that will be available eventually. >>> - There is an approach I want to re-work, that would allow us profit >>> of multicores without going multithread: the âhydraâ experiment made >>> some years ago by Igor creates a good basis to this. But is also a >>> lot of of work (but a lot less than a complete MT), and not a real >>> priority for nowâ¦ I hope to resume work on that area some dayâ¦ just >>> not anytime soon. >> >> Yes, please. I recall those discussions. Hydra is cosmological. >> >> Regards, >> Robert >> >>> >>> Esteban >>> >>>> On 18 Oct 2015, at 17:56, Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com >>>> <mailto:btc@openinworld.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 2:25 AM, Robert Withers >>>> <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com <mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> Yes, exactly. I do realize I was consciously changing that effort >>>>> synchronization order. >>>> >>>> I see 64-bit being higher priority than multi-threaded for the wider >>>> community. Dealing with larger in-Image data opens the door to more >>>> corporate project/funding opportunities. Also simplifying the install >>>> on modern Linux platforms without requiring additional 386 libraries >>>> will help acceptance there. >>>> >>>>> It is my humble opinion, without really knowing, that 64-bit would >>>>> have to be redone after the MTVM completes. >>>> >>>> I would assume it was the other way around. Presuming that Eliot has >>>> sponsors influencing his priorities, it seems given that 64-bits will >>>> happen first. I would guess any MTVM development on the old vm would >>>> then need to be reworked. >>>> >>>>> I was doing so with the idea in mind that I and others >>>>> might dig into working on the VM, for threading support, while Eliot >>>>> maintains focus on 64-bits...a tall order, I know. >>>> >>>> The usual downside of splitting resources applies. There are not that >>>> many "others" and maybe they would be drawn away from helping with the >>>> 64-bit vm. If the 64-bit vm goes slower for lack of resources then >>>> your footing for MTVM will shifting for a longer time. You may >>>> ultimately get where you want to go faster by helping with the 64-bit >>>> vm. The rapport built with other vm devs from working on 64-bit might >>>> could then be applied to MTVM. (Of course, its your free time, so you >>>> should pursue what interests you.) >>>> >>>>> I was barely familiar with the VM, slang, interpreter, it years ago... >>>>> I'm totally unfamiliar with cog. >>>> >>>> The experience you gain from working beside Esteban and Eliot on >>>> 64-bit Cog/Spur could then be applied to a MTVM. >>>> >>>> btw, you may find these threads interesting... >>>> * >>>> http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-dev_lists.pharo.org/2015-April/10864… >>>> * >>>> http://forum.world.st/Copy-on-write-for-a-multithreaded-VM-td4837905.html >>>> >>>> cheers -ben >>>> >>>>> I believe another item on that list ought to be modernizing slang. So >>>>> many big items! >>>>> >>>>> Robert >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10/16/2015 12:48 PM, Stephan Eggermont wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 16-10-15 14:05, Robert Withers wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Because of that assumption I've made and without the responsibilities >>>>>>> you have, Esteban, but recognizing modernizing NB to FFI, my desired >>>>>>> list is: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I would expect the least total effort to be needed by keeping the work >>>>>> of Esteban and Eliot as much as possible aligned. That is what >>>>>> Esteban's >>>>>> list achieves. >>>>>> >>>>>> Stephan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>

Oct. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo:

by Ron Teitelbaum

Hi Robert, I went back and reviewed and this is what I sent to BIS. http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/cryptography/2006-January/00011… Not much to it but we got a lot of advice from SFLC first. >From our research OS projects are allowed to host cryptographic code and make available for anyone to download. BUT that does not exclude users of the code from being restrained from exporting that code to any USA identified restricted entities. For example: http://www.state.gov/j/ct/list/c14151.htm I would recommend at the very least to register the repo with the BIS for Pharo, but I would also contact the SFLC to verify nothing has changed. All the best, Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of > Robert Withers > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 5:28 PM > To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list; 'Chris Muller' > Cc: 'Pharo Development List' > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] > RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: > > (resending with Pharo list) > > Ron, would it be an easy process to add a second URL to the exception > paperwork. Pharo does have new ideas about code storage and distribution > that we would want to take advantage of. This would help a lot! > > Then again, screw their paperwork requirements of us. Put my name as > responsible on the Pharo code and I'll take a trip to Cuba, if they need a > scape goat for their 20th century thinking. Crypto is already out of the bag > and everyone uses it freely. Just do it and ask permission later. > > In thinking about consolidating crypto code between squeak and pharo, I > would guess there would be a thin capatibility layer for each system, then > the Crypto code in the main. My goal is to have compatibility, crypto and > plugins on both virtual platforms. > > Thanks so much ^^ > > Robert > > On 10/19/2015 05:17 PM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > > > The exemption is not for the location of the server but the URL where it is > hosted. I'm happy to help in any way I can but I don't have access to the > Pharo Repos. I have no issue with having Pharo packages on SqueakSource if > that is what everyone agrees too. We have multiple packages hosted there. > It's ok with me if we host some pharo code there too. > > > > All the best, > > > > Ron > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Chris Muller [mailto:ma.chris.m@gmail.com] > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 3:59 PM > >> To: Ron Teitelbaum > >> Cc: Pharo Development List; The general-purpose Squeak developers > >> list > >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] > >> RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: > >> > >> Heh, well, since then SqueakSource itself was moved to a different > >> server in a different country. I guess there was also a mirror of > >> SqueakSource hosted in Chile under a different URL for many years. > >> > >> I'm doubtful any of it matters, but we wouldn't want anyone to end up > >> in Gitmo over it. If you're uncomfortable about hosting a copy > >> elsewhere, then please at least namespace-prefix the Pharo-specific > >> packages, to at least help keep it from becoming a tangled mess. > >> > >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Ron Teitelbaum <ron(a)usmedrec.com> > >> wrote: > >>> Hi All, > >>> > >>> Unless someone filed the proper paperwork I would suggest NOT moving > >> the cryptography code anywhere except for SqueakSource. When we > >> started the project we spent time ensuring that we had a proper > >> exemption from the U.S. regulations on exporting cryptographic code. > >> If someone copied and forked the code that exemption may not still > >> apply to that new repository. > >>> > >>> I'm not personally involved with the code on Pharo, not sure who is > >>> doing > >> crypto there. > >>> > >>> All the best, > >>> > >>> Ron > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On > >>>> Behalf Of Chris Muller > >>>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 2:47 PM > >>>> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list > >>>> Cc: Pharo Development List > >>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] > >>>> RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: > >>>> > >>>> Yes, if a common package for both Squeak and Pharo is possible, > >>>> that'd be great. Otherwise, the Squeak and Pharo versions should > >>>> reside in separate repositories. Squeak users are still using > >>>> squeaksource.com, Pharo moved to smalltalkhub and beyond.. > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Robert Withers > >>>> <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> hey Ron, > >>>>> > >>>>> It was actually the Pharo Cryptography team I was thinking of. > >>>>> Perhaps we can get the same package to work in both squeak and > >>>>> Pharo, with use of installable entropy sources or the like. In > >>>>> order to get SqueakElib running in Pharo I need crypto and we may > >>>>> as > >> well do it right. > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>>>> Robert > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 10/19/2015 02:28 PM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Robert, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> You are already on the Cryptograph repo on SqueakSource.com as an > >>>> admin. > >>>>>> Please feel free to reorg if you like. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Let me know if you have trouble resurrecting your account. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> All the best, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Ron > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>> From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > >>>>>>> [mailto:squeak-dev- bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org] On > >>>>>>> Behalf Of Robert Withers > >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 1:53 PM > >>>>>>> To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] [Pharo-dev] [Cryptography port to > >>>>>>> Pharo] RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> This is great guys. Is there a way to get this from the image? > >>>>>>> Good to get > >>>>>> > >>>>>> it > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> with an FFI/OSProcess call or something. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thank you, > >>>>>>> Robert > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 10/19/2015 08:58 AM, Louis LaBrunda wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hi Guys, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> How about getting the CPU temperature. I think most CPUs > >>>>>>>> support "Digital Thermal Sensor" (I'm not sure about ARM). I > >>>>>>>> think it is seven bits. The real range should be less than > >>>>>>>> that but it may be enough to help add some entropy. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Lou > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Mon, 19 Oct 2015 07:39:19 -0400, Robert Withers > >>>>>>>> <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hi Ron , nice to see you too! It has been a number of years, > >>>>>>>>> hasn't > >> it? > >>>>>>>>> Crypto is timestamped back in 2010, so there is is. I hope > >>>>>>>>> these have been kind years to you, as they have for me. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I love the idea of optional sources of entropy, depending on > >>>>>>>>> the deployed capabilities. So there are our mouse points and > >>>>>>>>> such, because they ought to be optional. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> What are some reliably present sources in the most minimal > >>>> situation? > >>>>>>>>> If we could define minimal as an image with no image level I/O > >>>>>>>>> beyond file I/O, I would think we'd have: Kernel, System, > >>>>>>>>> Collections, Compiler and FFI. Some intransitives in that > >>>>>>>>> scope for entropy would be > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> grand. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I was thinking to take 5 millisecondClockValues, separated by > >>>>>>>>> 4 non-secure random intervals: take the low order byte of the > >>>>>>>>> 4 intervals and reverse & concat them, as a entropic source. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I can coordinate these changes. Ron, could you add me to the > >>>>>>>>> Cryptography team so I can upload the Pharo Cryptography > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> #bleedingEdge? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Thanks and I look forward to more, :) > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Robert > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On 10/18/2015 02:38 PM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Hi Robert, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Nice to see you! > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Looks interesting I know that Chris did something gathering > >>>>>>>>>> sources of > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> entropy. Seems like the more the better. Could you just make > >>>>>>> the entropy sources optional such that if they exist we use them? > >>>>>>> I would have to go back and see what Chris did but he was > >>>>>>> following suggestions from Schneider in his secureRandom. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> All the best, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Ron Teitelbaum > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>>> From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] > >>>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Robert Withers > >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 5:00 AM > >>>>>>>>>>> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list; Pharo > >>>>>>>>>>> Development List > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] > >>>>>>>>>>> RandomGenerator > >>>>>>>>>>> class>>unpredictableStringsDo: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry, I forgot the code. I list the existing method, > >>>>>>>>>>> followed by my modified Pharo method below. I welcome any > >>>> feedback. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>>>> Robert > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>>>> Existing: > >>>>>>>>>>> unpredictableStringsDo: aBlock > >>>>>>>>>>> "Enumerate sources of information from my > >>>>>>>>>>> environment that > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> should > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> be generally hard to guess." > >>>>>>>>>>> | time | > >>>>>>>>>>> time := Time millisecondsToRun: > >>>>>>>>>>> [ aBlock > >>>>>>>>>>> value: World imageForm bits > >>>>>>>>>>> compressToByteArray ; > >>>>>>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint x asString ; > >>>>>>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint y asString ; > >>>>>>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue > >>>>>>>>>>> asByteArray ; > >>>>>>>>>>> value: Date today asString ; > >>>>>>>>>>> value: Time now asString ; > >>>>>>>>>>> value: Display extent asString. > >>>>>>>>>>> 100 timesRepeat: [ aBlock value: UUID new ]. > >>>>>>>>>>> #(vmVersion platformName primVmPath > >>>>>>>>>>> imageName > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> platformSubtype > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> datedVersion lastQuitLogPosition vmStatisticsReportString > >>>>>>>>>>> imageName) > >>>>>>>>>>> collect: > >>>>>>>>>>> [ : each | > >>>>>>>>>>> aBlock value: (SmalltalkImage > >>>>>>>>>>> current > >>>>>>>>>>> perform: each) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> asByteArray > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> ] ]. > >>>>>>>>>>> aBlock > >>>>>>>>>>> value: time asByteArray; > >>>>>>>>>>> "maybe the pointer has moved, hit it again." > >>>>>>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint asString ; > >>>>>>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue > >>>>>>>>>>> asByteArray > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>>>> Pharo port: > >>>>>>>>>>> unpredictableStringsDo: aBlock > >>>>>>>>>>> "Enumerate sources of information from my > >>>>>>>>>>> environment that > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> should > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> be generally hard to guess." > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> | time | > >>>>>>>>>>> time := Time millisecondsToRun: > >>>>>>>>>>> [ aBlock > >>>>>>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue > >>>>>>>>>>> asByteArray ; > >>>>>>>>>>> value: Date today asString ; > >>>>>>>>>>> value: Time now asString. > >>>>>>>>>>> 100 timesRepeat: [ aBlock value: UUID new ]. > >>>>>>>>>>> #(version primImagePath imagePath > >>>>>>>>>>> datedVersion > >>>>>>>>>>> lastQuitLogPosition) > >>>>>>>>>>> collect: > >>>>>>>>>>> [ : each | > >>>>>>>>>>> aBlock value: (SmalltalkImage > >>>>>>>>>>> current > >>>>>>>>>>> perform: each) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> asByteArray > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> ] ]. > >>>>>>>>>>> aBlock > >>>>>>>>>>> value: time asByteArray; > >>>>>>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue > >>>>>>>>>>> asByteArray > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/18/2015 04:23 AM, Robert Withers wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> This is a message intended for anyone who was on the > >>>>>>>>>>>> Cryptography > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> team. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I recently ported it to Pharo and had to make changes to > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> RandomGenerator > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> class>>unpredictableStringsDo:. This certainly removed some > >>>>>>>>>>>> class>>uncertainty > >>>>>>>>>>>> from the results of this message. My question is what > >>>>>>>>>>>> should I do about that? This method seems to require > >>>>>>>>>>>> non-headless, as it is checking the mouse point and such. > >>>>>>>>>>>> This being a crypto cornerstone, what the best answer here. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, > >>>>>>>>>>>> Robert > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> Louis LaBrunda > >>>>>>>> Keystone Software Corp. > >>>>>>>> SkypeMe callto://PhotonDemon > >>>>>>>> mailto:Lou@Keystone-Software.com http://www.Keystone- > >>>> Software.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>> > > > >

Oct. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo:

by Robert Withers

(resending with Pharo list) Ron, would it be an easy process to add a second URL to the exception paperwork. Pharo does have new ideas about code storage and distribution that we would want to take advantage of. This would help a lot! Then again, screw their paperwork requirements of us. Put my name as responsible on the Pharo code and I'll take a trip to Cuba, if they need a scape goat for their 20th century thinking. Crypto is already out of the bag and everyone uses it freely. Just do it and ask permission later. In thinking about consolidating crypto code between squeak and pharo, I would guess there would be a thin capatibility layer for each system, then the Crypto code in the main. My goal is to have compatibility, crypto and plugins on both virtual platforms. Thanks so much ^^ Robert On 10/19/2015 05:17 PM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote: > Hi Chris, > > The exemption is not for the location of the server but the URL where it is hosted. I'm happy to help in any way I can but I don't have access to the Pharo Repos. I have no issue with having Pharo packages on SqueakSource if that is what everyone agrees too. We have multiple packages hosted there. It's ok with me if we host some pharo code there too. > > All the best, > > Ron > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chris Muller [mailto:ma.chris.m@gmail.com] >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 3:59 PM >> To: Ron Teitelbaum >> Cc: Pharo Development List; The general-purpose Squeak developers list >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] >> RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: >> >> Heh, well, since then SqueakSource itself was moved to a different server in >> a different country. I guess there was also a mirror of SqueakSource hosted >> in Chile under a different URL for many years. >> >> I'm doubtful any of it matters, but we wouldn't want anyone to end up in >> Gitmo over it. If you're uncomfortable about hosting a copy elsewhere, then >> please at least namespace-prefix the Pharo-specific packages, to at least help >> keep it from becoming a tangled mess. >> >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Ron Teitelbaum <ron(a)usmedrec.com> >> wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> Unless someone filed the proper paperwork I would suggest NOT moving >> the cryptography code anywhere except for SqueakSource. When we started >> the project we spent time ensuring that we had a proper exemption from >> the U.S. regulations on exporting cryptographic code. If someone copied >> and forked the code that exemption may not still apply to that new >> repository. >>> >>> I'm not personally involved with the code on Pharo, not sure who is doing >> crypto there. >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> Ron >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf >>>> Of Chris Muller >>>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 2:47 PM >>>> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list >>>> Cc: Pharo Development List >>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] >>>> RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: >>>> >>>> Yes, if a common package for both Squeak and Pharo is possible, >>>> that'd be great. Otherwise, the Squeak and Pharo versions should >>>> reside in separate repositories. Squeak users are still using >>>> squeaksource.com, Pharo moved to smalltalkhub and beyond.. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Robert Withers >>>> <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> hey Ron, >>>>> >>>>> It was actually the Pharo Cryptography team I was thinking of. >>>>> Perhaps we can get the same package to work in both squeak and >>>>> Pharo, with use of installable entropy sources or the like. In >>>>> order to get SqueakElib running in Pharo I need crypto and we may as >> well do it right. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Robert >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10/19/2015 02:28 PM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Robert, >>>>>> >>>>>> You are already on the Cryptograph repo on SqueakSource.com as an >>>> admin. >>>>>> Please feel free to reorg if you like. >>>>>> >>>>>> Let me know if you have trouble resurrecting your account. >>>>>> >>>>>> All the best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Ron >>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >>>>>>> [mailto:squeak-dev- bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf >>>>>>> Of Robert Withers >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 1:53 PM >>>>>>> To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] [Pharo-dev] [Cryptography port to >>>>>>> Pharo] RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is great guys. Is there a way to get this from the image? >>>>>>> Good to get >>>>>> >>>>>> it >>>>>>> >>>>>>> with an FFI/OSProcess call or something. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> Robert >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10/19/2015 08:58 AM, Louis LaBrunda wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Guys, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How about getting the CPU temperature. I think most CPUs >>>>>>>> support "Digital Thermal Sensor" (I'm not sure about ARM). I >>>>>>>> think it is seven bits. The real range should be less than that >>>>>>>> but it may be enough to help add some entropy. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lou >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, 19 Oct 2015 07:39:19 -0400, Robert Withers >>>>>>>> <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Ron , nice to see you too! It has been a number of years, hasn't >> it? >>>>>>>>> Crypto is timestamped back in 2010, so there is is. I hope >>>>>>>>> these have been kind years to you, as they have for me. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I love the idea of optional sources of entropy, depending on >>>>>>>>> the deployed capabilities. So there are our mouse points and >>>>>>>>> such, because they ought to be optional. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What are some reliably present sources in the most minimal >>>> situation? >>>>>>>>> If we could define minimal as an image with no image level I/O >>>>>>>>> beyond file I/O, I would think we'd have: Kernel, System, >>>>>>>>> Collections, Compiler and FFI. Some intransitives in that scope >>>>>>>>> for entropy would be >>>>>>> >>>>>>> grand. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I was thinking to take 5 millisecondClockValues, separated by 4 >>>>>>>>> non-secure random intervals: take the low order byte of the 4 >>>>>>>>> intervals and reverse & concat them, as a entropic source. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I can coordinate these changes. Ron, could you add me to the >>>>>>>>> Cryptography team so I can upload the Pharo Cryptography >>>>>>> >>>>>>> #bleedingEdge? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks and I look forward to more, :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Robert >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10/18/2015 02:38 PM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Robert, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Nice to see you! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Looks interesting I know that Chris did something gathering >>>>>>>>>> sources of >>>>>>> >>>>>>> entropy. Seems like the more the better. Could you just make >>>>>>> the entropy sources optional such that if they exist we use them? >>>>>>> I would have to go back and see what Chris did but he was >>>>>>> following suggestions from Schneider in his secureRandom. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> All the best, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ron Teitelbaum >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Robert Withers >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 5:00 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list; Pharo >>>>>>>>>>> Development List >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] >>>>>>>>>>> RandomGenerator >>>>>>>>>>> class>>unpredictableStringsDo: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry, I forgot the code. I list the existing method, >>>>>>>>>>> followed by my modified Pharo method below. I welcome any >>>> feedback. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Robert >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> Existing: >>>>>>>>>>> unpredictableStringsDo: aBlock >>>>>>>>>>> "Enumerate sources of information from my environment >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>> >>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> be generally hard to guess." >>>>>>>>>>> | time | >>>>>>>>>>> time := Time millisecondsToRun: >>>>>>>>>>> [ aBlock >>>>>>>>>>> value: World imageForm bits >>>>>>>>>>> compressToByteArray ; >>>>>>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint x asString ; >>>>>>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint y asString ; >>>>>>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue >>>>>>>>>>> asByteArray ; >>>>>>>>>>> value: Date today asString ; >>>>>>>>>>> value: Time now asString ; >>>>>>>>>>> value: Display extent asString. >>>>>>>>>>> 100 timesRepeat: [ aBlock value: UUID new ]. >>>>>>>>>>> #(vmVersion platformName primVmPath imageName >>>>>>> >>>>>>> platformSubtype >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> datedVersion lastQuitLogPosition vmStatisticsReportString >>>>>>>>>>> imageName) >>>>>>>>>>> collect: >>>>>>>>>>> [ : each | >>>>>>>>>>> aBlock value: (SmalltalkImage current >>>>>>>>>>> perform: each) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> asByteArray >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ] ]. >>>>>>>>>>> aBlock >>>>>>>>>>> value: time asByteArray; >>>>>>>>>>> "maybe the pointer has moved, hit it again." >>>>>>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint asString ; >>>>>>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue asByteArray >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> Pharo port: >>>>>>>>>>> unpredictableStringsDo: aBlock >>>>>>>>>>> "Enumerate sources of information from my environment >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>> >>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> be generally hard to guess." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> | time | >>>>>>>>>>> time := Time millisecondsToRun: >>>>>>>>>>> [ aBlock >>>>>>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue >>>>>>>>>>> asByteArray ; >>>>>>>>>>> value: Date today asString ; >>>>>>>>>>> value: Time now asString. >>>>>>>>>>> 100 timesRepeat: [ aBlock value: UUID new ]. >>>>>>>>>>> #(version primImagePath imagePath >>>>>>>>>>> datedVersion >>>>>>>>>>> lastQuitLogPosition) >>>>>>>>>>> collect: >>>>>>>>>>> [ : each | >>>>>>>>>>> aBlock value: (SmalltalkImage current >>>>>>>>>>> perform: each) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> asByteArray >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ] ]. >>>>>>>>>>> aBlock >>>>>>>>>>> value: time asByteArray; >>>>>>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue asByteArray >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/18/2015 04:23 AM, Robert Withers wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is a message intended for anyone who was on the >>>>>>>>>>>> Cryptography >>>>>>> >>>>>>> team. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I recently ported it to Pharo and had to make changes to >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> RandomGenerator >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> class>>unpredictableStringsDo:. This certainly removed some >>>>>>>>>>>> class>>uncertainty >>>>>>>>>>>> from the results of this message. My question is what should >>>>>>>>>>>> I do about that? This method seems to require non-headless, >>>>>>>>>>>> as it is checking the mouse point and such. This being a >>>>>>>>>>>> crypto cornerstone, what the best answer here. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>>>>> Robert >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> Louis LaBrunda >>>>>>>> Keystone Software Corp. >>>>>>>> SkypeMe callto://PhotonDemon >>>>>>>> mailto:Lou@Keystone-Software.com http://www.Keystone- >>>> Software.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> > >

Oct. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo:

by Ron Teitelbaum

Hi Chris, The exemption is not for the location of the server but the URL where it is hosted. I'm happy to help in any way I can but I don't have access to the Pharo Repos. I have no issue with having Pharo packages on SqueakSource if that is what everyone agrees too. We have multiple packages hosted there. It's ok with me if we host some pharo code there too. All the best, Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Muller [mailto:ma.chris.m@gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 3:59 PM > To: Ron Teitelbaum > Cc: Pharo Development List; The general-purpose Squeak developers list > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] > RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: > > Heh, well, since then SqueakSource itself was moved to a different server in > a different country. I guess there was also a mirror of SqueakSource hosted > in Chile under a different URL for many years. > > I'm doubtful any of it matters, but we wouldn't want anyone to end up in > Gitmo over it. If you're uncomfortable about hosting a copy elsewhere, then > please at least namespace-prefix the Pharo-specific packages, to at least help > keep it from becoming a tangled mess. > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Ron Teitelbaum <ron(a)usmedrec.com> > wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > Unless someone filed the proper paperwork I would suggest NOT moving > the cryptography code anywhere except for SqueakSource. When we started > the project we spent time ensuring that we had a proper exemption from > the U.S. regulations on exporting cryptographic code. If someone copied > and forked the code that exemption may not still apply to that new > repository. > > > > I'm not personally involved with the code on Pharo, not sure who is doing > crypto there. > > > > All the best, > > > > Ron > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf > >> Of Chris Muller > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 2:47 PM > >> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list > >> Cc: Pharo Development List > >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] > >> RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: > >> > >> Yes, if a common package for both Squeak and Pharo is possible, > >> that'd be great. Otherwise, the Squeak and Pharo versions should > >> reside in separate repositories. Squeak users are still using > >> squeaksource.com, Pharo moved to smalltalkhub and beyond.. > >> > >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Robert Withers > >> <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > hey Ron, > >> > > >> > It was actually the Pharo Cryptography team I was thinking of. > >> > Perhaps we can get the same package to work in both squeak and > >> > Pharo, with use of installable entropy sources or the like. In > >> > order to get SqueakElib running in Pharo I need crypto and we may as > well do it right. > >> > > >> > Cheers, > >> > Robert > >> > > >> > > >> > On 10/19/2015 02:28 PM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Hi Robert, > >> >> > >> >> You are already on the Cryptograph repo on SqueakSource.com as an > >> admin. > >> >> Please feel free to reorg if you like. > >> >> > >> >> Let me know if you have trouble resurrecting your account. > >> >> > >> >> All the best, > >> >> > >> >> Ron > >> >> > >> >>> -----Original Message----- > >> >>> From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > >> >>> [mailto:squeak-dev- bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf > >> >>> Of Robert Withers > >> >>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 1:53 PM > >> >>> To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > >> >>> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] [Pharo-dev] [Cryptography port to > >> >>> Pharo] RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: > >> >>> > >> >>> This is great guys. Is there a way to get this from the image? > >> >>> Good to get > >> >> > >> >> it > >> >>> > >> >>> with an FFI/OSProcess call or something. > >> >>> > >> >>> Thank you, > >> >>> Robert > >> >>> > >> >>> On 10/19/2015 08:58 AM, Louis LaBrunda wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Hi Guys, > >> >>>> > >> >>>> How about getting the CPU temperature. I think most CPUs > >> >>>> support "Digital Thermal Sensor" (I'm not sure about ARM). I > >> >>>> think it is seven bits. The real range should be less than that > >> >>>> but it may be enough to help add some entropy. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Lou > >> >>>> > >> >>>> On Mon, 19 Oct 2015 07:39:19 -0400, Robert Withers > >> >>>> <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>>> Hi Ron , nice to see you too! It has been a number of years, hasn't > it? > >> >>>>> Crypto is timestamped back in 2010, so there is is. I hope > >> >>>>> these have been kind years to you, as they have for me. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> I love the idea of optional sources of entropy, depending on > >> >>>>> the deployed capabilities. So there are our mouse points and > >> >>>>> such, because they ought to be optional. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> What are some reliably present sources in the most minimal > >> situation? > >> >>>>> If we could define minimal as an image with no image level I/O > >> >>>>> beyond file I/O, I would think we'd have: Kernel, System, > >> >>>>> Collections, Compiler and FFI. Some intransitives in that scope > >> >>>>> for entropy would be > >> >>> > >> >>> grand. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> I was thinking to take 5 millisecondClockValues, separated by 4 > >> >>>>> non-secure random intervals: take the low order byte of the 4 > >> >>>>> intervals and reverse & concat them, as a entropic source. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> I can coordinate these changes. Ron, could you add me to the > >> >>>>> Cryptography team so I can upload the Pharo Cryptography > >> >>> > >> >>> #bleedingEdge? > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Thanks and I look forward to more, :) > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Robert > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> On 10/18/2015 02:38 PM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Hi Robert, > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Nice to see you! > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Looks interesting I know that Chris did something gathering > >> >>>>>> sources of > >> >>> > >> >>> entropy. Seems like the more the better. Could you just make > >> >>> the entropy sources optional such that if they exist we use them? > >> >>> I would have to go back and see what Chris did but he was > >> >>> following suggestions from Schneider in his secureRandom. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> All the best, > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Ron Teitelbaum > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >> >>>>>>> From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On > >> >>>>>>> Behalf Of Robert Withers > >> >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 5:00 AM > >> >>>>>>> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list; Pharo > >> >>>>>>> Development List > >> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] > >> >>>>>>> RandomGenerator > >> >>>>>>> class>>unpredictableStringsDo: > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> I'm sorry, I forgot the code. I list the existing method, > >> >>>>>>> followed by my modified Pharo method below. I welcome any > >> feedback. > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> Regards, > >> >>>>>>> Robert > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> --- > >> >>>>>>> Existing: > >> >>>>>>> unpredictableStringsDo: aBlock > >> >>>>>>> "Enumerate sources of information from my environment > >> >>>>>>> that > >> >>> > >> >>> should > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> be generally hard to guess." > >> >>>>>>> | time | > >> >>>>>>> time := Time millisecondsToRun: > >> >>>>>>> [ aBlock > >> >>>>>>> value: World imageForm bits > >> >>>>>>> compressToByteArray ; > >> >>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint x asString ; > >> >>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint y asString ; > >> >>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue > >> >>>>>>> asByteArray ; > >> >>>>>>> value: Date today asString ; > >> >>>>>>> value: Time now asString ; > >> >>>>>>> value: Display extent asString. > >> >>>>>>> 100 timesRepeat: [ aBlock value: UUID new ]. > >> >>>>>>> #(vmVersion platformName primVmPath imageName > >> >>> > >> >>> platformSubtype > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> datedVersion lastQuitLogPosition vmStatisticsReportString > >> >>>>>>> imageName) > >> >>>>>>> collect: > >> >>>>>>> [ : each | > >> >>>>>>> aBlock value: (SmalltalkImage current > >> >>>>>>> perform: each) > >> >>> > >> >>> asByteArray > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> ] ]. > >> >>>>>>> aBlock > >> >>>>>>> value: time asByteArray; > >> >>>>>>> "maybe the pointer has moved, hit it again." > >> >>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint asString ; > >> >>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue asByteArray > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> --- > >> >>>>>>> Pharo port: > >> >>>>>>> unpredictableStringsDo: aBlock > >> >>>>>>> "Enumerate sources of information from my environment > >> >>>>>>> that > >> >>> > >> >>> should > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> be generally hard to guess." > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> | time | > >> >>>>>>> time := Time millisecondsToRun: > >> >>>>>>> [ aBlock > >> >>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue > >> >>>>>>> asByteArray ; > >> >>>>>>> value: Date today asString ; > >> >>>>>>> value: Time now asString. > >> >>>>>>> 100 timesRepeat: [ aBlock value: UUID new ]. > >> >>>>>>> #(version primImagePath imagePath > >> >>>>>>> datedVersion > >> >>>>>>> lastQuitLogPosition) > >> >>>>>>> collect: > >> >>>>>>> [ : each | > >> >>>>>>> aBlock value: (SmalltalkImage current > >> >>>>>>> perform: each) > >> >>> > >> >>> asByteArray > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> ] ]. > >> >>>>>>> aBlock > >> >>>>>>> value: time asByteArray; > >> >>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue asByteArray > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> On 10/18/2015 04:23 AM, Robert Withers wrote: > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> This is a message intended for anyone who was on the > >> >>>>>>>> Cryptography > >> >>> > >> >>> team. > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> I recently ported it to Pharo and had to make changes to > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> RandomGenerator > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> class>>unpredictableStringsDo:. This certainly removed some > >> >>>>>>>> class>>uncertainty > >> >>>>>>>> from the results of this message. My question is what should > >> >>>>>>>> I do about that? This method seems to require non-headless, > >> >>>>>>>> as it is checking the mouse point and such. This being a > >> >>>>>>>> crypto cornerstone, what the best answer here. > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> Thank you, > >> >>>>>>>> Robert > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------- > >> >>>> Louis LaBrunda > >> >>>> Keystone Software Corp. > >> >>>> SkypeMe callto://PhotonDemon > >> >>>> mailto:Lou@Keystone-Software.com http://www.Keystone- > >> Software.com > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > > > >

Oct. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo:

by Chris Muller

Heh, well, since then SqueakSource itself was moved to a different server in a different country. I guess there was also a mirror of SqueakSource hosted in Chile under a different URL for many years. I'm doubtful any of it matters, but we wouldn't want anyone to end up in Gitmo over it. If you're uncomfortable about hosting a copy elsewhere, then please at least namespace-prefix the Pharo-specific packages, to at least help keep it from becoming a tangled mess. On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Ron Teitelbaum <ron(a)usmedrec.com> wrote: > Hi All, > > Unless someone filed the proper paperwork I would suggest NOT moving the cryptography code anywhere except for SqueakSource. When we started the project we spent time ensuring that we had a proper exemption from the U.S. regulations on exporting cryptographic code. If someone copied and forked the code that exemption may not still apply to that new repository. > > I'm not personally involved with the code on Pharo, not sure who is doing crypto there. > > All the best, > > Ron > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of >> Chris Muller >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 2:47 PM >> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list >> Cc: Pharo Development List >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] >> RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: >> >> Yes, if a common package for both Squeak and Pharo is possible, that'd be >> great. Otherwise, the Squeak and Pharo versions should reside in separate >> repositories. Squeak users are still using squeaksource.com, Pharo moved to >> smalltalkhub and beyond.. >> >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Robert Withers >> <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > hey Ron, >> > >> > It was actually the Pharo Cryptography team I was thinking of. Perhaps >> > we can get the same package to work in both squeak and Pharo, with use >> > of installable entropy sources or the like. In order to get SqueakElib >> > running in Pharo I need crypto and we may as well do it right. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Robert >> > >> > >> > On 10/19/2015 02:28 PM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Robert, >> >> >> >> You are already on the Cryptograph repo on SqueakSource.com as an >> admin. >> >> Please feel free to reorg if you like. >> >> >> >> Let me know if you have trouble resurrecting your account. >> >> >> >> All the best, >> >> >> >> Ron >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >> >>> [mailto:squeak-dev- bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of >> >>> Robert Withers >> >>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 1:53 PM >> >>> To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >> >>> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] [Pharo-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] >> >>> RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: >> >>> >> >>> This is great guys. Is there a way to get this from the image? Good >> >>> to get >> >> >> >> it >> >>> >> >>> with an FFI/OSProcess call or something. >> >>> >> >>> Thank you, >> >>> Robert >> >>> >> >>> On 10/19/2015 08:58 AM, Louis LaBrunda wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Hi Guys, >> >>>> >> >>>> How about getting the CPU temperature. I think most CPUs support >> >>>> "Digital Thermal Sensor" (I'm not sure about ARM). I think it is >> >>>> seven bits. The real range should be less than that but it may be >> >>>> enough to help add some entropy. >> >>>> >> >>>> Lou >> >>>> >> >>>> On Mon, 19 Oct 2015 07:39:19 -0400, Robert Withers >> >>>> <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Hi Ron , nice to see you too! It has been a number of years, hasn't it? >> >>>>> Crypto is timestamped back in 2010, so there is is. I hope these >> >>>>> have been kind years to you, as they have for me. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I love the idea of optional sources of entropy, depending on the >> >>>>> deployed capabilities. So there are our mouse points and such, >> >>>>> because they ought to be optional. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> What are some reliably present sources in the most minimal >> situation? >> >>>>> If we could define minimal as an image with no image level I/O >> >>>>> beyond file I/O, I would think we'd have: Kernel, System, >> >>>>> Collections, Compiler and FFI. Some intransitives in that scope >> >>>>> for entropy would be >> >>> >> >>> grand. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I was thinking to take 5 millisecondClockValues, separated by 4 >> >>>>> non-secure random intervals: take the low order byte of the 4 >> >>>>> intervals and reverse & concat them, as a entropic source. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I can coordinate these changes. Ron, could you add me to the >> >>>>> Cryptography team so I can upload the Pharo Cryptography >> >>> >> >>> #bleedingEdge? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Thanks and I look forward to more, :) >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Robert >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On 10/18/2015 02:38 PM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Hi Robert, >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Nice to see you! >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Looks interesting I know that Chris did something gathering >> >>>>>> sources of >> >>> >> >>> entropy. Seems like the more the better. Could you just make the >> >>> entropy sources optional such that if they exist we use them? I >> >>> would have to go back and see what Chris did but he was following >> >>> suggestions from Schneider in his secureRandom. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> All the best, >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Ron Teitelbaum >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>>>> From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On >> >>>>>>> Behalf Of Robert Withers >> >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 5:00 AM >> >>>>>>> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list; Pharo >> >>>>>>> Development List >> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] >> >>>>>>> RandomGenerator >> >>>>>>> class>>unpredictableStringsDo: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> I'm sorry, I forgot the code. I list the existing method, >> >>>>>>> followed by my modified Pharo method below. I welcome any >> feedback. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Regards, >> >>>>>>> Robert >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> --- >> >>>>>>> Existing: >> >>>>>>> unpredictableStringsDo: aBlock >> >>>>>>> "Enumerate sources of information from my environment >> >>>>>>> that >> >>> >> >>> should >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> be generally hard to guess." >> >>>>>>> | time | >> >>>>>>> time := Time millisecondsToRun: >> >>>>>>> [ aBlock >> >>>>>>> value: World imageForm bits >> >>>>>>> compressToByteArray ; >> >>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint x asString ; >> >>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint y asString ; >> >>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue >> >>>>>>> asByteArray ; >> >>>>>>> value: Date today asString ; >> >>>>>>> value: Time now asString ; >> >>>>>>> value: Display extent asString. >> >>>>>>> 100 timesRepeat: [ aBlock value: UUID new ]. >> >>>>>>> #(vmVersion platformName primVmPath imageName >> >>> >> >>> platformSubtype >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> datedVersion lastQuitLogPosition vmStatisticsReportString >> >>>>>>> imageName) >> >>>>>>> collect: >> >>>>>>> [ : each | >> >>>>>>> aBlock value: (SmalltalkImage current >> >>>>>>> perform: each) >> >>> >> >>> asByteArray >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> ] ]. >> >>>>>>> aBlock >> >>>>>>> value: time asByteArray; >> >>>>>>> "maybe the pointer has moved, hit it again." >> >>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint asString ; >> >>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue asByteArray >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> --- >> >>>>>>> Pharo port: >> >>>>>>> unpredictableStringsDo: aBlock >> >>>>>>> "Enumerate sources of information from my environment >> >>>>>>> that >> >>> >> >>> should >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> be generally hard to guess." >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> | time | >> >>>>>>> time := Time millisecondsToRun: >> >>>>>>> [ aBlock >> >>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue >> >>>>>>> asByteArray ; >> >>>>>>> value: Date today asString ; >> >>>>>>> value: Time now asString. >> >>>>>>> 100 timesRepeat: [ aBlock value: UUID new ]. >> >>>>>>> #(version primImagePath imagePath datedVersion >> >>>>>>> lastQuitLogPosition) >> >>>>>>> collect: >> >>>>>>> [ : each | >> >>>>>>> aBlock value: (SmalltalkImage current >> >>>>>>> perform: each) >> >>> >> >>> asByteArray >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> ] ]. >> >>>>>>> aBlock >> >>>>>>> value: time asByteArray; >> >>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue asByteArray >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On 10/18/2015 04:23 AM, Robert Withers wrote: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> This is a message intended for anyone who was on the >> >>>>>>>> Cryptography >> >>> >> >>> team. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> I recently ported it to Pharo and had to make changes to >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> RandomGenerator >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> class>>unpredictableStringsDo:. This certainly removed some >> >>>>>>>> class>>uncertainty >> >>>>>>>> from the results of this message. My question is what should I >> >>>>>>>> do about that? This method seems to require non-headless, as it >> >>>>>>>> is checking the mouse point and such. This being a crypto >> >>>>>>>> cornerstone, what the best answer here. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Thank you, >> >>>>>>>> Robert >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>> Louis LaBrunda >> >>>> Keystone Software Corp. >> >>>> SkypeMe callto://PhotonDemon >> >>>> mailto:Lou@Keystone-Software.com http://www.Keystone- >> Software.com >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >

Oct. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo:

by Ron Teitelbaum

Hi All, Unless someone filed the proper paperwork I would suggest NOT moving the cryptography code anywhere except for SqueakSource. When we started the project we spent time ensuring that we had a proper exemption from the U.S. regulations on exporting cryptographic code. If someone copied and forked the code that exemption may not still apply to that new repository. I'm not personally involved with the code on Pharo, not sure who is doing crypto there. All the best, Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of > Chris Muller > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 2:47 PM > To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list > Cc: Pharo Development List > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] > RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: > > Yes, if a common package for both Squeak and Pharo is possible, that'd be > great. Otherwise, the Squeak and Pharo versions should reside in separate > repositories. Squeak users are still using squeaksource.com, Pharo moved to > smalltalkhub and beyond.. > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Robert Withers > <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > hey Ron, > > > > It was actually the Pharo Cryptography team I was thinking of. Perhaps > > we can get the same package to work in both squeak and Pharo, with use > > of installable entropy sources or the like. In order to get SqueakElib > > running in Pharo I need crypto and we may as well do it right. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > > > > > On 10/19/2015 02:28 PM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote: > >> > >> Hi Robert, > >> > >> You are already on the Cryptograph repo on SqueakSource.com as an > admin. > >> Please feel free to reorg if you like. > >> > >> Let me know if you have trouble resurrecting your account. > >> > >> All the best, > >> > >> Ron > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > >>> [mailto:squeak-dev- bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of > >>> Robert Withers > >>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 1:53 PM > >>> To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > >>> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] [Pharo-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] > >>> RandomGenerator class>>unpredictableStringsDo: > >>> > >>> This is great guys. Is there a way to get this from the image? Good > >>> to get > >> > >> it > >>> > >>> with an FFI/OSProcess call or something. > >>> > >>> Thank you, > >>> Robert > >>> > >>> On 10/19/2015 08:58 AM, Louis LaBrunda wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi Guys, > >>>> > >>>> How about getting the CPU temperature. I think most CPUs support > >>>> "Digital Thermal Sensor" (I'm not sure about ARM). I think it is > >>>> seven bits. The real range should be less than that but it may be > >>>> enough to help add some entropy. > >>>> > >>>> Lou > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, 19 Oct 2015 07:39:19 -0400, Robert Withers > >>>> <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Ron , nice to see you too! It has been a number of years, hasn't it? > >>>>> Crypto is timestamped back in 2010, so there is is. I hope these > >>>>> have been kind years to you, as they have for me. > >>>>> > >>>>> I love the idea of optional sources of entropy, depending on the > >>>>> deployed capabilities. So there are our mouse points and such, > >>>>> because they ought to be optional. > >>>>> > >>>>> What are some reliably present sources in the most minimal > situation? > >>>>> If we could define minimal as an image with no image level I/O > >>>>> beyond file I/O, I would think we'd have: Kernel, System, > >>>>> Collections, Compiler and FFI. Some intransitives in that scope > >>>>> for entropy would be > >>> > >>> grand. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I was thinking to take 5 millisecondClockValues, separated by 4 > >>>>> non-secure random intervals: take the low order byte of the 4 > >>>>> intervals and reverse & concat them, as a entropic source. > >>>>> > >>>>> I can coordinate these changes. Ron, could you add me to the > >>>>> Cryptography team so I can upload the Pharo Cryptography > >>> > >>> #bleedingEdge? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks and I look forward to more, :) > >>>>> > >>>>> Robert > >>>>> > >>>>> On 10/18/2015 02:38 PM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Robert, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Nice to see you! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Looks interesting I know that Chris did something gathering > >>>>>> sources of > >>> > >>> entropy. Seems like the more the better. Could you just make the > >>> entropy sources optional such that if they exist we use them? I > >>> would have to go back and see what Chris did but he was following > >>> suggestions from Schneider in his secureRandom. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> All the best, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Ron Teitelbaum > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>> From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On > >>>>>>> Behalf Of Robert Withers > >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 5:00 AM > >>>>>>> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list; Pharo > >>>>>>> Development List > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [Cryptography port to Pharo] > >>>>>>> RandomGenerator > >>>>>>> class>>unpredictableStringsDo: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I'm sorry, I forgot the code. I list the existing method, > >>>>>>> followed by my modified Pharo method below. I welcome any > feedback. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>> Robert > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>> Existing: > >>>>>>> unpredictableStringsDo: aBlock > >>>>>>> "Enumerate sources of information from my environment > >>>>>>> that > >>> > >>> should > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> be generally hard to guess." > >>>>>>> | time | > >>>>>>> time := Time millisecondsToRun: > >>>>>>> [ aBlock > >>>>>>> value: World imageForm bits > >>>>>>> compressToByteArray ; > >>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint x asString ; > >>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint y asString ; > >>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue > >>>>>>> asByteArray ; > >>>>>>> value: Date today asString ; > >>>>>>> value: Time now asString ; > >>>>>>> value: Display extent asString. > >>>>>>> 100 timesRepeat: [ aBlock value: UUID new ]. > >>>>>>> #(vmVersion platformName primVmPath imageName > >>> > >>> platformSubtype > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> datedVersion lastQuitLogPosition vmStatisticsReportString > >>>>>>> imageName) > >>>>>>> collect: > >>>>>>> [ : each | > >>>>>>> aBlock value: (SmalltalkImage current > >>>>>>> perform: each) > >>> > >>> asByteArray > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ] ]. > >>>>>>> aBlock > >>>>>>> value: time asByteArray; > >>>>>>> "maybe the pointer has moved, hit it again." > >>>>>>> value: Sensor mousePoint asString ; > >>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue asByteArray > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>> Pharo port: > >>>>>>> unpredictableStringsDo: aBlock > >>>>>>> "Enumerate sources of information from my environment > >>>>>>> that > >>> > >>> should > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> be generally hard to guess." > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> | time | > >>>>>>> time := Time millisecondsToRun: > >>>>>>> [ aBlock > >>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue > >>>>>>> asByteArray ; > >>>>>>> value: Date today asString ; > >>>>>>> value: Time now asString. > >>>>>>> 100 timesRepeat: [ aBlock value: UUID new ]. > >>>>>>> #(version primImagePath imagePath datedVersion > >>>>>>> lastQuitLogPosition) > >>>>>>> collect: > >>>>>>> [ : each | > >>>>>>> aBlock value: (SmalltalkImage current > >>>>>>> perform: each) > >>> > >>> asByteArray > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ] ]. > >>>>>>> aBlock > >>>>>>> value: time asByteArray; > >>>>>>> value: Time millisecondClockValue asByteArray > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 10/18/2015 04:23 AM, Robert Withers wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> This is a message intended for anyone who was on the > >>>>>>>> Cryptography > >>> > >>> team. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I recently ported it to Pharo and had to make changes to > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> RandomGenerator > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> class>>unpredictableStringsDo:. This certainly removed some > >>>>>>>> class>>uncertainty > >>>>>>>> from the results of this message. My question is what should I > >>>>>>>> do about that? This method seems to require non-headless, as it > >>>>>>>> is checking the mouse point and such. This being a crypto > >>>>>>>> cornerstone, what the best answer here. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thank you, > >>>>>>>> Robert > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> Louis LaBrunda > >>>> Keystone Software Corp. > >>>> SkypeMe callto://PhotonDemon > >>>> mailto:Lou@Keystone-Software.com http://www.Keystone- > Software.com > >>>> > >>>> > >> > >> > >> > >

Oct. 19, 2015