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Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] The Trunk: Network-topa.166.mcz

by Levente Uzonyi

On Thu, 22 Oct 2015, Henrik Johansen wrote: > > On 22 Oct 2015, at 5:35 , Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> wrote: > > On Thu, 22 Oct 2015, Tobias Pape wrote: > > Hi Marcus > On 22.10.2015, at 16:44, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 22 Oct 2015, at 16:13, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > Thats what I thought. > Probably we want to present this (Mersenne PRNG + new UUID gen) to > the Pharo core developers (cc) so that we can just remove the UUID plugin > from the VMs (cc vm-dev)? > > > That sounds good! > > > I added an issue tracker entry so we do not forget: > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/16846/integrate-non-Plugin-UUIDGenerator-… > > > Is there any way to view those issues without creating a fogbugz account? > > > No, there isn't. I guess it would be fairly easy to export all issues to a static website, but once you have an account, your interest in > creating such site vanishes. :) > > Levente > > > best regards > -Tobias = > > > There'sÂ http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Issue-Tracker-f3456798.html, but there's both a delay, and it's a PITA to read without threading, so... > > Now if only source.squeak.orgÂ was up so it'd actually be possible to upgrade a Squeak image and check out the changes ;) Thanks Henry. It should be up again. Levente > > Cheers, > Henry > >

Oct. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalkhub projects not indexed?

by Esteban A. Maringolo

You're right. In the 80's I was learning to write... However, there weren't public hosted repositories, and if there was; I bet they didn't have 2 million of them, nor even two orders of magnitude less. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo 2015-10-22 13:28 GMT-03:00 Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com>: > In the 80s? you probably mean SCCS... > > 2015-10-22 18:01 GMT+02:00 Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>: >> >> 2015-10-22 12:57 GMT-03:00 Andreas Wacknitz <A.Wacknitz(a)gmx.de>: >> > Am 22.10.15 um 17:30 schrieb monty: >> >> >> >> Github is a private VC funded company that we don't own that tomorrow >> >> could go away or adopt policies harmful to us. If Ruby can have >> >> rubygems.org >> >> (and if Steph can continue to get funding from INRIA/ESUG), then why >> >> can't >> >> we have something like STHub that's ours? >> >> >> >> >> > +1 >> > Github may be hip today but can be outdated in a few years. If Smalltalk >> > would have chosen a version management technology >> > that was en vogue in the 80s where would it be now? Does anybody even >> > remember one of those from then? >> > Having nice github integration (or whatever might be the technology of >> > the >> > day) is one thing, completely relying on it is something >> > different. >> >> We would be using SourceForge, probably :). >> Some projects still use it. Which ones? Well... the ones using >> Subversion, mostly old projects (although still maintained). >> >> But I couldn't find a new project choosing it over GitHub for code >> management. >> >> >> Esteban A. Maringolo >> >

Oct. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] [squeak-dev] The Trunk: Network-topa.166.mcz

by Levente Uzonyi

On Thu, 22 Oct 2015, Henrik Johansen wrote: > >> On 22 Oct 2015, at 2:49 , Tobias Pape <Das.Linux(a)gmx.de> wrote: >> >> >> >> On 22.10.2015, at 14:37, David T. Lewis <lewis(a)mail.msen.com> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 06:28:09AM +0000, commits(a)source.squeak.org wrote: >>>> Tobias Pape uploaded a new version of Network to project The Trunk: >>>> http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Network-topa.166.mcz >>>> >>>> ==================== Summary ==================== >>>> >>>> Name: Network-topa.166 >>>> Author: topa >>>> Time: 21 October 2015, 8:26:14.656 pm >>>> UUID: d6d9910f-fa67-4c69-9a89-030c81233e90 >>>> Ancestors: Network-topa.165 >>>> >>>> UUIDGenerator >>>> - Use new Random>>#nextBytes:into:startingAt: (needs Kernel-ul.960) for even more speed >>>> - Fix UUIDGenerator class>>#initialize to correctly register at startup >>>> - Do not reset default on startup but rather reseed TheRandom >>>> >>>> Timings improved: '1,190,000 per second. 842 nanoseconds per run.' (0.25 times slower than primitive version) >>>> >>> >>> This is outstanding. The UUID plugin has long been a source of problems in >>> the VM, partly due to issues in various Linux distributions. >>> >>> http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7358 >>> >>> Making the plugin unnecessary is a big improvement. >> >> Thats what I thought. >> Probably we want to present this (Mersenne PRNG + new UUID gen) to >> the Pharo core developers (cc) so that we can just remove the UUID plugin >> from the VMs (cc vm-dev)? >> >> Best regards >> -Tobias > > In the release version of Squeak 5.0, the Mersenne Twister is initialized using a single seed restricted to 32bit. > Has this been changed since to use a wider ranged value? > Otherwise, you run into problems with potential collisions from separate image starts rather too fast for UUID uses... (IMHO) No, that's still something to be done[1]. Levente [1] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2015-October/186409.… > > Cheers, > Henry >

Oct. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalkhub projects not indexed?

by Nicolas Cellier

In the 80s? you probably mean SCCS... 2015-10-22 18:01 GMT+02:00 Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>: > 2015-10-22 12:57 GMT-03:00 Andreas Wacknitz <A.Wacknitz(a)gmx.de>: > > Am 22.10.15 um 17:30 schrieb monty: > >> > >> Github is a private VC funded company that we don't own that tomorrow > >> could go away or adopt policies harmful to us. If Ruby can have > rubygems.org > >> (and if Steph can continue to get funding from INRIA/ESUG), then why > can't > >> we have something like STHub that's ours? > >> > >> > > +1 > > Github may be hip today but can be outdated in a few years. If Smalltalk > > would have chosen a version management technology > > that was en vogue in the 80s where would it be now? Does anybody even > > remember one of those from then? > > Having nice github integration (or whatever might be the technology of > the > > day) is one thing, completely relying on it is something > > different. > > We would be using SourceForge, probably :). > Some projects still use it. Which ones? Well... the ones using > Subversion, mostly old projects (although still maintained). > > But I couldn't find a new project choosing it over GitHub for code > management. > > > Esteban A. Maringolo > >

Oct. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] [squeak-dev] The Trunk: Network-topa.166.mcz

by Nicolas Cellier

For these reasons, I often prefer the Marsaglia's KISS 2015-10-22 17:57 GMT+02:00 Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no>: > > > On 22 Oct 2015, at 2:49 , Tobias Pape <Das.Linux(a)gmx.de> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 22.10.2015, at 14:37, David T. Lewis <lewis(a)mail.msen.com> wrote: > > > >> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 06:28:09AM +0000, commits(a)source.squeak.org > wrote: > >>> Tobias Pape uploaded a new version of Network to project The Trunk: > >>> http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Network-topa.166.mcz > >>> > >>> ==================== Summary ==================== > >>> > >>> Name: Network-topa.166 > >>> Author: topa > >>> Time: 21 October 2015, 8:26:14.656 pm > >>> UUID: d6d9910f-fa67-4c69-9a89-030c81233e90 > >>> Ancestors: Network-topa.165 > >>> > >>> UUIDGenerator > >>> - Use new Random>>#nextBytes:into:startingAt: (needs Kernel-ul.960) > for even more speed > >>> - Fix UUIDGenerator class>>#initialize to correctly register at startup > >>> - Do not reset default on startup but rather reseed TheRandom > >>> > >>> Timings improved: '1,190,000 per second. 842 nanoseconds per run.' > (0.25 times slower than primitive version) > >>> > >> > >> This is outstanding. The UUID plugin has long been a source of problems > in > >> the VM, partly due to issues in various Linux distributions. > >> > >> http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7358 > >> > >> Making the plugin unnecessary is a big improvement. > > > > Thats what I thought. > > Probably we want to present this (Mersenne PRNG + new UUID gen) to > > the Pharo core developers (cc) so that we can just remove the UUID plugin > > from the VMs (cc vm-dev)? > > > > Best regards > > -Tobias > > In the release version of Squeak 5.0, the Mersenne Twister is initialized > using a single seed restricted to 32bit. > Has this been changed since to use a wider ranged value? > Otherwise, you run into problems with potential collisions from separate > image starts rather too fast for UUID uses... (IMHO) > > Cheers, > Henry >

Oct. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalkhub projects not indexed?

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2015-10-22 12:57 GMT-03:00 Andreas Wacknitz <A.Wacknitz(a)gmx.de>: > Am 22.10.15 um 17:30 schrieb monty: >> >> Github is a private VC funded company that we don't own that tomorrow >> could go away or adopt policies harmful to us. If Ruby can have rubygems.org >> (and if Steph can continue to get funding from INRIA/ESUG), then why can't >> we have something like STHub that's ours? >> >> > +1 > Github may be hip today but can be outdated in a few years. If Smalltalk > would have chosen a version management technology > that was en vogue in the 80s where would it be now? Does anybody even > remember one of those from then? > Having nice github integration (or whatever might be the technology of the > day) is one thing, completely relying on it is something > different. We would be using SourceForge, probably :). Some projects still use it. Which ones? Well... the ones using Subversion, mostly old projects (although still maintained). But I couldn't find a new project choosing it over GitHub for code management. Esteban A. Maringolo

Oct. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalkhub projects not indexed?

by Esteban A. Maringolo

I don't want to speak for him, but I think he meant Github. If what you want is visibility and relevance there is no OTHER place to get it. It's not only about features (I use Bitbucket for my private projects), it's about marketing, it about appearing in reports like this: http://githut.info/ A big diamond hidden in bottom of ocean is worth less than a small diamond on a showcase. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo 2015-10-22 12:46 GMT-03:00 Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com>: > I guess that Alexandre want to say git and not github. > > What is important is to have git support on Pharo in the future so we > can switch from github to bitbucket or any git hosting solution. > > > On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 5:30 PM, monty <monty2(a)programmer.net> wrote: >> Github is a private VC funded company that we don't own that tomorrow could go away or adopt policies harmful to us. If Ruby can have rubygems.org (and if Steph can continue to get funding from INRIA/ESUG), then why can't we have something like STHub that's ours? >> >> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 at 11:19 AM >> From: "Alexandre Bergel" <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> >> To: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalkhub projects not indexed? >> >> On Oct 22, 2015, at 12:09 PM, monty <monty2(a)programmer.net> wrote: >> SmalltalkHub looks great but lacks the features of SqueakSource3. It would be great if we could switch the backend to SS3 while keeping the look of STHub. >> Having a reliable solution on GitHub will be even better in my opinion. Moreover, it will reveal that Pharo is within the top 20-languages. >> >> Alexandre >> > > > > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/ >

Oct. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalkhub projects not indexed?

by Andreas Wacknitz

Am 22.10.15 um 17:30 schrieb monty: > Github is a private VC funded company that we don't own that tomorrow could go away or adopt policies harmful to us. If Ruby can have rubygems.org (and if Steph can continue to get funding from INRIA/ESUG), then why can't we have something like STHub that's ours? > > +1 Github may be hip today but can be outdated in a few years. If Smalltalk would have chosen a version management technology that was en vogue in the 80s where would it be now? Does anybody even remember one of those from then? Having nice github integration (or whatever might be the technology of the day) is one thing, completely relying on it is something different.

Oct. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] [squeak-dev] The Trunk: Network-topa.166.mcz

by Henrik Johansen

> On 22 Oct 2015, at 2:49 , Tobias Pape <Das.Linux(a)gmx.de> wrote: > > > > On 22.10.2015, at 14:37, David T. Lewis <lewis(a)mail.msen.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 06:28:09AM +0000, commits(a)source.squeak.org wrote: >>> Tobias Pape uploaded a new version of Network to project The Trunk: >>> http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Network-topa.166.mcz >>> >>> ==================== Summary ==================== >>> >>> Name: Network-topa.166 >>> Author: topa >>> Time: 21 October 2015, 8:26:14.656 pm >>> UUID: d6d9910f-fa67-4c69-9a89-030c81233e90 >>> Ancestors: Network-topa.165 >>> >>> UUIDGenerator >>> - Use new Random>>#nextBytes:into:startingAt: (needs Kernel-ul.960) for even more speed >>> - Fix UUIDGenerator class>>#initialize to correctly register at startup >>> - Do not reset default on startup but rather reseed TheRandom >>> >>> Timings improved: '1,190,000 per second. 842 nanoseconds per run.' (0.25 times slower than primitive version) >>> >> >> This is outstanding. The UUID plugin has long been a source of problems in >> the VM, partly due to issues in various Linux distributions. >> >> http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7358 >> >> Making the plugin unnecessary is a big improvement. > > Thats what I thought. > Probably we want to present this (Mersenne PRNG + new UUID gen) to > the Pharo core developers (cc) so that we can just remove the UUID plugin > from the VMs (cc vm-dev)? > > Best regards > -Tobias In the release version of Squeak 5.0, the Mersenne Twister is initialized using a single seed restricted to 32bit. Has this been changed since to use a wider ranged value? Otherwise, you run into problems with potential collisions from separate image starts rather too fast for UUID uses... (IMHO) Cheers, Henry

Oct. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Is "Enterprise Pharo" available in PDF?

by Richard Sargent

Thanks! -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Is-Enterprise-Pharo-available-in-PDF-tp4857121p485738… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Oct. 22, 2015