- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] A plea for responsive coding

by stepharo

But why don't you manipulate Forms instead of PNGs. Converting from PNGs to Forms should be done only once. Stef Le 22/11/15 11:53, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : > here is the tricky part , I am willing to bet that the slow down > happens because of the stepping of the seconds indicator. > > The one thing I forgot to mention is that I dont load my images from > external files, the images are already converted to method sources , > strings , with Peter's IconFactory library. Still the PNGReader class > tries to convert those string streams to forms and is where most of > the time is consumed. The reason I chose this approach was in hope of > a speed up so pharo does not waste time opening and closing files. > > In the stepping of the seconds indicator I recreate the form in each > step , depending on the seconds. I could optomise that part by having > all images of the animation loaded into seperate forms during > initialisation and just use the reference of the correct form during > stepping that should speed things up a lot. > > Overall 170ms for opening that GUI is not so bad for a dynamic GC > language. Taking into account that this is mostly pharo code , unlike > python that it would be using a C lib to speed things up. I am a happy > Morphic customer :) > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 12:39 PM Thierry Goubier > <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Le 22/11/2015 11:27, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : > > tried with ChronosManager > > > > [ ChronosManager open ] bench > > > > 5.6 per second > > > > it opened around 30 instances and Morphic was crawling. > > > > I profiled it and it reports that it spends a total 170ms which is > > consistent with bench. Around 50ms is spent only for loading the > image > > of the secondary panel and from what I have seen loading the > images and > > the font accounts around 90% of the time spent and then rest 10% is > > actually morphic + logic. > > If I understand you well, what you have is: > > - ChronosManager takes 170ms to open, including external resources > loading time (which is SSD/HD dependent). > > - The whole world performance degrades with many ChronosManager > instances loaded? (Moving one around probably forces others to refresh > as well). > > What could be nice is to profile rendering time as well (but, if your > first render time is included in the 10% of 170ms you quote, then > it is > probably fine). > > Would you like to try benchmarking rendering one ChronosManager > instance > when you have 30 instances opened / only one instance opened? > > > So from the looks of it , it looks like Morphic does not perform > well > > with loaded images and external files. > > This is a clear win if you cache those (i.e. have a LRU cache holding > forms and fonts, filled upon first load, reused over subsequent > loads). > > Thierry > > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 11:34 AM Thierry Goubier > > <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com> > <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com > <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>>> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I would like to ask you, all of you, something significant > when doing > > GUI coding: > > > > Pay attention to performance! > > > > With the current state of our technology (Morphic, Bloc, > whatever comes > > next) your target should be one hundred milliseconds (100 > ms), for > > opening / redisplaying the widget. > > > > Why? > > > > - Because, in 10ms, Morphic can open and layout dozens of > Morphs on a > > low-end machine (1.4GHz Celeron). > > > > - Because most of you work on 3GHz+ i7 Macbook Pro (so, at > 10x the cpu > > performance of that said Celeron). > > > > - Because you are not to reproduce the past: that your > current tools are > > slow is no excuse. > > > > - Because you now have well designed core widgets (FT) that > behaves in > > O(1) and opens fully loaded in 10's of milliseconds > > > > So, profile and clean your code! Eliminate unneeded caches! > Clean your > > architectures! Avoid or mark slow code and bottlenecks! > > > > And bring numbers when you want to criticize the performance > of a > > subsystem... > > > > Thierry > > > >

Nov. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] A plea for responsive coding

by stepharo

+100000 Stef > Hi all, > > I would like to ask you, all of you, something significant when doing > GUI coding: > > Pay attention to performance! > > With the current state of our technology (Morphic, Bloc, whatever > comes next) your target should be one hundred milliseconds (100 ms), > for opening / redisplaying the widget. > > Why? > > - Because, in 10ms, Morphic can open and layout dozens of Morphs on a > low-end machine (1.4GHz Celeron). > > - Because most of you work on 3GHz+ i7 Macbook Pro (so, at 10x the cpu > performance of that said Celeron). > > - Because you are not to reproduce the past: that your current tools > are slow is no excuse. > > - Because you now have well designed core widgets (FT) that behaves in > O(1) and opens fully loaded in 10's of milliseconds > > So, profile and clean your code! Eliminate unneeded caches! Clean your > architectures! Avoid or mark slow code and bottlenecks! > > And bring numbers when you want to criticize the performance of a > subsystem... > > Thierry > >

Nov. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Digest from slack to the mailing list?

by stepharo

Yes this would be good. People should understand that important discussions should be via the mailing-list. Emails are good because you can consume them the way you want. I simply cannot be connected all the time. So emails are good because I can process them when I decide. Slack is good for more interactive session around debugger and things like that. Stef Le 21/11/15 18:05, Stephan Eggermont a Ã©crit : > Should we have a digest from slack to a mailing list? > We are already losing messages > > Stephan > > >

Nov. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] recompiling all classes and traits is slow (at least on windows)

by Alexandre Bergel

Wow, I did not know you can close and open source files. Everyday there is something to learn. Cheers, Alexandre > On Nov 22, 2015, at 8:16 AM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > If you only need it for yourself you could probably speed things up by doing > > Smalltalk closeSourceFiles. [ compileâ¦ ] ensure: [ Smalltalk openSourceFiles ]. > > That will prevent reads and writes from and to the changes / sources files. Of course, that doesnât solve the problem in general. > > Cheers, > Max > > >> On 21 Nov 2015, at 20:09, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> recompiling all classes -> ~ 2 minutes >> recompiling all traits -> ~ 13 minutes >> >> is there any way to recompile all without removing and adding all trait methods >> for trait users ? Because this touches the changes file (although recompiling >> shouldn't change the source) and touching the changes file for many methods >> is pretty slow on windows. >> >> >> nicolai > > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Nov. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Digest from slack to the mailing list?

by Stephan Eggermont

On 22/11/15 12:14, Max Leske wrote: > I donât think thatâs necessary. Important stuff will still be sent via mail and be documented in issues on fogbugz. Thatâs my personal feeling at least. I don't see that happening at all. We don't publish design notes (abstracts from design discussions) and we only track simple issues. Stephan

Nov. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Digest from slack to the mailing list?

by Stephan Eggermont

On 22/11/15 13:26, Marcus Denker wrote: > Honestly, who has the time to read all this? That's not the point. The importance is searchability. It is essential to be able to follow design discussions from 10-15 years ago to understand how to fix things now. That information needs to be openly available. Putting it all in a full text search engine with a web interface might work too. Stephan

Nov. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Digest from slack to the mailing list?

by Marcus Denker

Honestly, who has the time to read all this? I never read the old discussions that happened when I was off in Slack. (And I try to not read everything on this list, too). Just because if I would read everything, I would not have the time to actually *do* anything. Marcus > On 22 Nov 2015, at 08:37, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I think its important to have, I have already learned a ton via Slack and I have marked several posts there are favorites so that I wont lose them . > > The Slack experiment, even though I have been very skeptical at first, has been a huge success and it can easily compete with the importance of the mailing list. Merging the two would be a huge win for our community. > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:06 PM Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl <mailto:stephan@stack.nl>> wrote: > Should we have a digest from slack to a mailing list? > We are already losing messages > > Stephan > >

Nov. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] recompiling all classes and traits is slow (at least on windows)

by Nicolai Hess

That is better, 5 minutes instead of 15 ! 2015-11-22 12:16 GMT+01:00 Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com>: > If you only need it for yourself you could probably speed things up by > doing > > Smalltalk closeSourceFiles. [ compileâ¦ ] ensure: [ Smalltalk > openSourceFiles ]. > > That will prevent reads and writes from and to the changes / sources > files. Of course, that doesnât solve the problem in general. > > Cheers, > Max > > > > On 21 Nov 2015, at 20:09, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > recompiling all classes -> ~ 2 minutes > > recompiling all traits -> ~ 13 minutes > > > > is there any way to recompile all without removing and adding all trait > methods > > for trait users ? Because this touches the changes file (although > recompiling > > shouldn't change the source) and touching the changes file for many > methods > > is pretty slow on windows. > > > > > > nicolai > > >

Nov. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Digest from slack to the mailing list?

by Dimitris Chloupis

I think its important to have, I have already learned a ton via Slack and I have marked several posts there are favorites so that I wont lose them . The Slack experiment, even though I have been very skeptical at first, has been a huge success and it can easily compete with the importance of the mailing list. Merging the two would be a huge win for our community. On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:06 PM Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > Should we have a digest from slack to a mailing list? > We are already losing messages > > Stephan > > >

Nov. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] recompiling all classes and traits is slow (at least on windows)

by Max Leske

If you only need it for yourself you could probably speed things up by doing Smalltalk closeSourceFiles. [ compileâ¦ ] ensure: [ Smalltalk openSourceFiles ]. That will prevent reads and writes from and to the changes / sources files. Of course, that doesnât solve the problem in general. Cheers, Max > On 21 Nov 2015, at 20:09, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > recompiling all classes -> ~ 2 minutes > recompiling all traits -> ~ 13 minutes > > is there any way to recompile all without removing and adding all trait methods > for trait users ? Because this touches the changes file (although recompiling > shouldn't change the source) and touching the changes file for many methods > is pretty slow on windows. > > > nicolai

Nov. 22, 2015