- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] License agreement - are you kidding me?

by EuanM

"The Pharo community is quite small" Yes, and that is a major issue. Both for feature-completeness in a timely fashion, and also for commercial uptake of use of Pharo. Saying that it's small, so it's okay to make it difficult for people to join is... self-fulfilling. On 8 December 2015 at 07:35, Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 12/07, webwarrior wrote: >> It would be logical to make contribution to an open source project easy, >> right? >> Well, in bigger projects some burocracy is inevitable, but usually has some >> valid reasons behind it. >> >> When I made some commits to Spec (while it was on github), it was as easy as >> fork->commit->create pull request. >> In Pharo, it's already more complicated: you have to register yourself in >> SmalltalkHub, in fogbugz, in mailing lists. Slices system is also not very >> intuitive. Then CI system spits out some completely unrelated errors. >> >> But OK, I understand that Pharo is unlike > > Not every project lives in GitHub. > For Ruby, Mozilla, Chromium, Python, PHP, ... you have to register to > their bug tracker. After all, these projects predate both GitHub AND > git. > >> Then people began asking me of my real name - which is already wierd - why >> would they need it? > > The Pharo community is quite small and many people know each other > personally (have met on Pharo Days, ESUG, are coworkers, ...). So > working with someone who goes well out of his way to remain anonymous may be > uncomfortable for some. Not to mention that such behavior may seem > strange for OSS, but that's your call. > >> >> And then someone suggested that I must sign license agreement (which is also >> wierd - MIT license doesn't demand anything like that). > > The MIT may not demand something like that, however signing License > Agreement is also not completely unheard of, see for example > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributor_License_Agreement#Users > > This includes names like Python, Apache, jQuery, Django, ... not exactly > small fishes. > > >> I looked at that agreeement. It requires you to provide name, address (???), >> sgin it and send it via snail mail (WTF???). > > See above. Also note that copyright in many countries recognized > pseudonyms as valid authors. (I am not familiar with French law, but I will assume it is harmonized across EU) > Of course in case of a dispute you would need to be able to prove that > you are the pseudonym (otherwise you yourself would loose the rights). > > So considering your position (revealing your real name would undermine > all the work you've put into protecting it), going with a pseudonym if > you are indeed willing to contribute may be the best course of action. > >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/License-agreement-are-you-kidding-me-tp4865853.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> > > -- > Peter >

Dec. 8, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] License agreement - are you kidding me?

by EuanM

"partially anonymous" The correct word is "pseudonimity". In UK law, as long as there is no intent to defraud, you can call yourself anything you like. In UK, you can provide signatures digitally, completely legally. UK law is has a long tradition of sorting out legal issues between two-third party jurisdictions. Perhaops Pharo ought to do it's work under a legal system that is more completely designed to handle issues of international commerce? Or perhaps it should be a all-French affair. On 7 December 2015 at 20:26, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Hi webwarrior (or whatever your name now is ;) > > There is always room for improvements - even for better guidance on how to become > a contributor. There are good reasons to do things the way they are done now - and > yes some of them are not optimal because of history or because of sparse time. > > Lamenting partially anonymous from the outside is neither useful nor polite. > Working as a real member/part of the community on the other side can help us all to move > forward step by step with a better open source project. > > If you or any other is really interested in moving with us the registration or > signature for sure will not be the show stopper. > >>Either we skip this stupid formality and continue working on the code, or >>I'm out of this. > > As Stef explained this was not done to bug people or keep them away. > We know that it might be cumbersome at first sight - but hey, many people mastered this > easily. I guess we even have people who do not drink beer but wine instead :) > > You can decide on your own how to proceed. Turn away or return. I guess there is only > one big hurdle and this one is on your side ;) > > As you see friendly people continue to invest their time answering your mails although you > as the author not even have the time (or will) to reveal your name. IMHO if someone > wants to participate in an open source project he has to be "open" on its own side first. > > It's up to you... > > Thanks > T. > > >

Dec. 8, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Cuis] Sorting Unicode strings (Re: [Unicode] collation sequences (Re: [squeak-dev] Unicode Support))

by EuanM

Dale - is that you can't depend on the value of a codepoint *unless the string is either in fully-composed form (or has just been fully-decomposed from a fully-composed form) * OR are there circumstances where even those two cases cannot be relied upon? On 8 December 2015 at 19:20, Dale Henrichs <dale.henrichs(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: > > > On 12/07/2015 11:31 PM, H. Hirzel wrote: >> >> Dale >> >> Thank you for your answer with links to the ICU library and the notes >> about classes in Gemstone. Noteworthy that you have a class Utf8 as a >> subclass of ByteArray. >> >> I understand that Gemstone uses the ICU library and thus does not >> implement the algorithms in Smalltalk. >> >> I am currently looking into what the ICU library provides. >> >> I found as well a Ruby library [2] which implements CLDR [3] >> >> It has methods like this >> >> "Alphabetize a list using regular Ruby sort:" >> >> $> ["Art", "Wasa", "Ãlg", "Ved"].sort >> $> ["Art", "Ved", "Wasa", "Ãlg"] >> >> Alphabetize a list using TwitterCLDRâs locale-aware sort: >> >> $> ["Art", "Wasa", "Ãlg", "Ved"].localize(:de).sort.to_a >> $> ["Ãlg", "Art", "Ved", "Wasa"] >> >> I hope that given such an example it would not be too difficult to >> reimplement a similar sort algorithm in Squeak/Cuis/Pharo. Currently >> the interest is in getting sorting done in a cross-dialect-way. >> > > I think that the issue (from a performance perspective) is that you can't > depend upon the value of the code point when doing collation --- the main > algorithm[5] is pretty much table based --- In addition to the different > sort orders based on characters there are even more arcane sort rules where > characters at the end of a word can affect the sort order of the word (for > more info see[4]). > > It is worth looking at the Conformance section of the Unicode spec[1] as > there are different levels of collation conformance ..... > > ICU conforms[2] to to UTS #10[3], the highest level of conformance ... > > It looks like TwitterCLDR[6] uses the Main Algorithm[5] with tailoring[7]. > They don't claim to be conformant to the Unicode Collation Algorithm[3], but > they are covering a big chunk of the standard use cases .... > > Dale > > [1] http://unicode.org/reports/tr10/#Conformance > [2] http://userguide.icu-project.org/collation > [3] http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/ > [4] http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/#Introduction > [5] http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/#Main_Algorithm > [6] > https://blog.twitter.com/2012/twittercldr-improving-internationalization-su… > [7] http://unicode.org/reports/tr10/#Tailoring

Dec. 8, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Documentation epiphany

by EuanM

The joke it's based on pre-dates use of computers to render complex 3D :-) Here's the world's first computer-generated 3D movie, from the Uni of Utah in 1972: https://vimeo.com/16292363 Compiled languages predate this. On 8 December 2015 at 15:24, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Actually this joke I think is "stolen" by a previous joke about 3d artists , > because our rendering times can be way longer than compiling the most > complex C++ code. Easily can reach months of rendering time. > > Its a good joke, but it should be taken as it is , a joke and nothing more. > > Because I happen to build blender from time to time which is 1 million lines > of destruction code, aka C/C++ code. Compiling is not that bad. Sure C++ > still is hog slow and outperformed 10 times by Pascal compilers which I > think that even the Pharo compiler would have a hard time competing with. > But makefiles are smart enough to compile and re link whatever it changes > and not the whole project. > > So each new commit I fetch for Blender produces a couple of seconds of > compiling time. But the very first compile which compiles everything from > scratch can reach even an hour and is not even a complete compile since I > use many prebuilt libraries and some prebuilt dependencies. > > To the subject of documentation it comes attached with a big depends. > Documentation is the usual problem pretty much with any programming > languages and is based on the fact that coders dont like to document as much > they dont like to design good code and make very good GUIs. > > Frankly you should always feel glad if you find documentation in any > language your are coding. If its good documentation too, then its your lucky > day indeed. > > But even in popular languages like Python, sure plenty of documentation for > the standard stuff but the moment you start depend on third party libraries > you are all alone VS the Alien :D > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 4:42 PM Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >> >> I just understood! Other languages might get better documentation >> because of all the extra slack time they get between compile cycles, >> that we don't get with Pharo's tight code-run-debug loop. >> >> I know... not a valid excuse for us**, but then I get to show this... >> https://xkcd.com/303/ >> >> ** of course documentation is getting better every day - but I can't >> let the truth get in the way of a good story :) >> >> cheers -ben >> >

Dec. 8, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Unicode] Normalization -- canonical equivalence vs compatibility equivalence

by EuanM

canonical equivalence ================ aString = anotherStrong where both strings are of the same sequence of valid Unicode representations of abstract characters BUT each individual character MAY (or may not) be represented by different valid Unicode representations of the character e.g. #(00c5) = #(212b) = #(0041 030a) "The same meaning when printed or displayed" Every tuple of canonically equivalent sequences is also compatibility equivalent. Actually yes - the easy way to define it would be a canonically equivalent string is the same string sequence of the same abstract characters as the string you are comparing it to. (But may use different codepoints) The sequence will have the same glyph appearance. compatibility equivalence is ===================== aString = anotherStrong where both strings have the same meaning in some particular contexts, but may have a different glyph appearance e.g. comparing ligatures with the decomposed sequences making up a ligature as in "ss" = "Ã" This is compatibility equivalent, they *can* have the same meaning, but they never have the same appearance. The normalisation forms either - expand all compatibility codepoints into fully composed sequences, to create the "fully composed normal form" of the string OR fully condense all composed sequences into compatibility codepoints, to create a "fully decomposed normal form". (Note, that as there can be multiple compatibility codepoints for an abstract character, it is necessary to create fully decomposed forms only after first coverting to fully composed forms, or two fully decomposed strings could fail equivalance testing *despite* being compatibility equivalent. e.g. #(00c5 00c5 00c5) = #(212b 212b 212b) is actually true, for compatibility equivalence But a process of fully composing any of #(00c5 212b #(0041 030a) ) #(00c5 00c5 00c5) #(212b 212b 212b) would always produce #( #(0041 030a) #(0041 030a) #(0041 030a) ) and then a subsequent full decomposition would produce #(00c5 00c5 00c5) for all three cases. On 8 December 2015 at 16:09, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > It seems that going for Normalization first in order to implement > String comparison is the next necessary steps. This is already a > result by itself. > > Normalization (Unicode) > Last updated at 4:05 pm UTC on 8 December 2015 > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6229 > > Can you explain to me what the difference between > > canonical equivalence > and > compatibility equivalence > > and for which we should go? > > --Hannes

Dec. 8, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Cuis] Sorting Unicode strings (Re: [Unicode] collation sequences (Re: [squeak-dev] Unicode Support))

by Dale Henrichs

On 12/07/2015 11:31 PM, H. Hirzel wrote: > Dale > > Thank you for your answer with links to the ICU library and the notes > about classes in Gemstone. Noteworthy that you have a class Utf8 as a > subclass of ByteArray. > > I understand that Gemstone uses the ICU library and thus does not > implement the algorithms in Smalltalk. > > I am currently looking into what the ICU library provides. > > I found as well a Ruby library [2] which implements CLDR [3] > > It has methods like this > > "Alphabetize a list using regular Ruby sort:" > > $> ["Art", "Wasa", "Ãlg", "Ved"].sort > $> ["Art", "Ved", "Wasa", "Ãlg"] > > Alphabetize a list using TwitterCLDRâs locale-aware sort: > > $> ["Art", "Wasa", "Ãlg", "Ved"].localize(:de).sort.to_a > $> ["Ãlg", "Art", "Ved", "Wasa"] > > I hope that given such an example it would not be too difficult to > reimplement a similar sort algorithm in Squeak/Cuis/Pharo. Currently > the interest is in getting sorting done in a cross-dialect-way. > I think that the issue (from a performance perspective) is that you can't depend upon the value of the code point when doing collation --- the main algorithm[5] is pretty much table based --- In addition to the different sort orders based on characters there are even more arcane sort rules where characters at the end of a word can affect the sort order of the word (for more info see[4]). It is worth looking at the Conformance section of the Unicode spec[1] as there are different levels of collation conformance ..... ICU conforms[2] to to UTS #10[3], the highest level of conformance ... It looks like TwitterCLDR[6] uses the Main Algorithm[5] with tailoring[7]. They don't claim to be conformant to the Unicode Collation Algorithm[3], but they are covering a big chunk of the standard use cases .... Dale [1] http://unicode.org/reports/tr10/#Conformance [2] http://userguide.icu-project.org/collation [3] http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/ [4] http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/#Introduction [5] http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/#Main_Algorithm [6] https://blog.twitter.com/2012/twittercldr-improving-internationalization-su… [7] http://unicode.org/reports/tr10/#Tailoring

Dec. 8, 2015

Unified Property API and persistent properties (Pharo 5)

by Torsten Bergmann

In Pharo 5 the "properties" API is unified (means you can associate properties to classes, methods, packages, ...). Really cool and a good step toward a unified and more flexible system. Exampel: |pck| pck := #'Foo-Kernel' asPackage. pck propertyAt: #'lastModified' put: DateAndTime now asString. pck propertyAt: #'generatedUsing' put: 'Pharo DynaCase'. pck properties So far it looks like the package properties are still transient - that means when you save the package and load in another image they will be empty again. Havent tried for class properties, ... Will this change in the near future so they are persistent? I wonder what the plans an next steps are in this area. Thanks T.

Dec. 8, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] doing stupid things (image will become unusable)

by Robert Withers

i AM MORE INTERESTED IN WHAT STATE HER CONSCIOUSNESS IS INAFTER TRICKING HER? If there is true loss of perceptory connection with the mirage, real pratyahara, there may still be a seed of meditation, so called Sabija Samadhi. It is not clear to me whether there actually is - messages sent without an Object??? Or is it blocked from finishing that operation and so there is no Nirbija Samadhi, not to speak loudly of Dharma Megha Samadhi! Wir Sind Tot! Alice ist jetzt Bardo! Nameste . On 12/08/2015 11:19 AM, Nicolai Hess wrote: > > Object := nil > > you can evaluate that piece of code, but afterwards .... > > Opal checks for assignments to read only variables (method arguments > for example) > and signals an error if you try to modify those vars. > But it does not check globals. > > Should all Globals (OCLiteralVariable with isGlobalVar == true) be > read only ? > or can we distinguish global vars and class bindings? >

Dec. 8, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] displayingProgress on demand

by John Brant

On 12/7/2015 5:27 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: > > but now I am failing to see how to replace #collect: with > #collect:thenDo: using the rewriter: > > http://ws.stfx.eu/MOWS947F000O You don't need to first search using the RBParseTreeSearcher. The RBParseTreeRewriter works with search patterns. What your code is really doing is searching for the literal pattern that it found from the RBParseTreeSearcher in the FooClass>>foo: method: aString asFileReference entries collect: [ : fileEntry | self openOnFileNamed: fileEntry fullName ] It then tries to replace it with the pattern: `@collection collect: `@arg1 thenDo: [ : fileEntry | index := index + 1. JobProgress progress: (0.1 * index); title: 'Procesing...', index asString ] However, since neither `@collection nor `@arg1 appear in your search pattern, you get an error. Here's a version that works: | cm rewriteRule replacement | cm := FooClass >> #foo:. replacement := '`@collection collect: `@arg1 thenDo: [ : fileEntry | index := index + 1. JobProgress progress: (0.1 * index); title: ''Procesing...'', index asString ]'. rewriteRule := RBParseTreeRewriter new replace: '`@collection collect: `@arg1' with: replacement. rewriteRule executeTree: cm parseTree. rewriteRule tree newSource Essentially, I used the same search pattern you used, but I used it for the RBParseTreeRewriter and removed all of the RBParseTreeSearcher code. If you want to change all #collect: sends in a method, then you should probably change `@aCollection and `@arg1 to ``@aCollection and ``@arg1. John Brant

Dec. 8, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] doing stupid things (image will become unusable)

by Marcus Denker

Yes, I wondered why it was not done in semantic analysisâ¦ would be much easier. The binding approach only takes care of reflective change (Smalltalk globals at: Object put: nil), a case that is not as important to fix. (reflection is dangerous, disallowing just this one operation does not help). We should do some experiments. Marcus > On 08 Dec 2015, at 17:33, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I remember. But what I do not remember is if the compiler was aware of it. > > I remember you had these ReadOnlyVariable, subclass of association that redefined #value:. You were however still capable of doing: > > MyReadOnlyVar := 1. > >> On 8 dic 2015, at 5:29 p.m., Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr <mailto:marcus.denker@inria.fr>> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> There used to be a mechanism for that (readonly variable bindings). >> >> It was there but not used: half the globals where readonly, all globals added >> after the experiment was done where ânormalâ. >> >> With the new âfirst classâ variables we could easily add that back in a clean way. >> >> Marcus >> >>> On 08 Dec 2015, at 17:19, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com <mailto:nicolaihess@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Object := nil >>> >>> you can evaluate that piece of code, but afterwards .... >>> >>> Opal checks for assignments to read only variables (method arguments for example) >>> and signals an error if you try to modify those vars. >>> But it does not check globals. >>> >>> Should all Globals (OCLiteralVariable with isGlobalVar == true) be read only ? >>> or can we distinguish global vars and class bindings? >>> >> >

Dec. 8, 2015