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Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Unicode] Summary (Re: Unicode Support // e acute example --> decomposition in Pharo?)

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi Hannes, > On 18 Dec 2015, at 14:47, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello Sven > > Thank you for your report about about your experimental, proof of > concept, prototype project, that aims to improve Unicode support. > Please include me in the loop. > > Below is is my attempt at summarizing the Unicode discussion of the last weeks. Excellent summary. > Corrections /comments / additions are welcome. Not really, it is pretty accurate. We are working on all parts of your architecture (point 7 below), with a focus on correct algorithms, not new representations of strings (the current ones are mostly fine). I can tell you that right now, we are already at 100% of the tests that use http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/NormalizationTest.txt to run about 75.000 individual test cases to check conformance to the official Unicode Normalization specification. So, NFD, NFKD, NFC and NFKC are done now, in principle. I am reasonably sure that within a week or two, after we clean up and document everything a bit, we'll be able to announce and show the first results. Happy Holidays ! Sven > Kind regards > > Hannes > > > 1) There is a need for improved Unicode support implemented _within_ > the image , probably as a library. > > 1a) This follows the example of the the Twitter CLDR library (i.e. > re-implementation of ICU components for Ruby). > https://github.com/twitter/twitter-cldr-rb > > Other languages/libraries have similar approaches > - dotNet, https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/System.Globalization.CharUnicodeIn…) > - Python https://docs.python.org/3/howto/unicode.html > - Go http://blog.golang.org/strings > - Swift, https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/Swift/Conceptual/Swif… > - Perl http://blog.golang.org/strings > > 1b) ICU is _not_ the way to go (http://site.icu-project.org/) . This > is because of security and portability reasons (Eliot Miranda) and > because of the Smalltalk approach that wants to expose basic > algorithms in Smalltalk code. In addition the 16bit based ICU library > does not fit well with the Squeak/Pharo UTF32 model. > > 2) The Unicode infrastructure (21(32) bit wide Characters as immediate > objects, use of UTF-32 internally, indexable strings, UTF8 for outside > communication, support of code converters) is a very valuable > foundation which makes algorithms more straightforward at the expense > of a more memory usage. It not used to its full potential at all > currently though a lot of hard work has been done. > > 3) The Unicode algorithms are mostly table / database driven. This > means that dictionary lookup is a prominent part of the algorithms. > The essential building block for this is that the Unicode character > database UCD (http://www.unicode.org/ucd/) is made available > _within_ the image with the full content as needed by the target > languages / scripts one wants to deal with. The process of loading the > UCD should be made configurable. > > 3a) a lot of people are interested in the Latin script (and scripts of > similar complexity) only. > 3b) The UCD data in XML form > http://www.unicode.org/Public/8.0.0/ucdxml/ offers a download with > and without the CJK characters. > > 4) The next step is to implement normalization > (http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr15/#Norm_Forms) Glad to read that > you have reached results here with the test data: > http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/NormalizationTest.txt. > > 5) Pharo offers nice inspectors to view dictionaries and ordered > collections (table view, drill down) which facilitates the development > to table driven algorithms. The data structures and algorithm are do > not depend on a particular dialect though and may be ported to Squeak > or Cuis. > > 6) After having implemented normalization, comparison may be > implemented. This needs CLDR access (collation, Unicode Common Locale > Data Repository, http://cldr.unicode.org/ ). > > > 7) An architecture has the following subsystems > > 7a) Basic character handling (21(32)bit characters in indexable > strings, point 2) > 7b) Runtime access to the Unicode Character Database (point 3) > 7c) Converters > 7d) Normalization (point 4) > 7e) CLDR access (point 6) > > > 8) The implementation should be driven by the current needs. > > An attainable next goal is to release > > 8a) a StringBuilder utility class for easier construction of test strings > i.e. instead of > >> normalizer composeString: (#(68 117 776 115 115 101 108 100 111 114 102 32 >> 75 111 776 110 105 103 115 97 108 108 101 101) collect: #asCharacter as: >> String). > > do > normalizer composeString: > (StringBuilder construct: 'Du\u0308sseldorf Ko\u0308nigsallee') > > and construct some test cases with it which illustrate some basic > Unicode issues. > > 8b) identity testing for major languages (e.g. French, German, > Spanish) and scripts of similar complexity. I > > 8c) to provide some more documentation of past and concurrent efforts. > > Note: This summary has only covered string manipulation, not rendering > on the screen which is a different issue. > > > On 12/16/15, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> Hi Hannes, >> >> My detailed comments/answers below, after quoting 2 of your emails: >> >>> On 10 Dec 2015, at 22:17, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hello Sven >>> >>> On 12/9/15, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>> >>>> The simplest example in a common language is (the French letter Ã©) is >>>> >>>> LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE [U+00E9] >>>> >>>> which can also be written as >>>> >>>> LATIN SMALL LETTER E [U+0065] followed by COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT >>>> [U+0301] >>>> >>>> The former being a composed normal form, the latter a decomposed normal >>>> form. (And yes, it is even much more complicated than that, it goes on >>>> for >>>> 1000s of pages). >>>> >>>> In the above example, the concept of character/string is indeed fuzzy. >>>> >>>> HTH, >>>> >>>> Sven >>> >>> Thanks for this example. I have created a wiki page with it >>> >>> I wonder what the Pharo equivalent is of the following Squeak expression >>> >>> $Ã© asString asDecomposedUnicode >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Hannes >> >> You also wrote: >> >>> The text below shows how to deal with the Unicode e acute example >>> brought up by Sven in terms of comparing strings. Currently Pharo and >>> Cuis do not do Normalization of strings. Limited support is in Squeak. >>> It will be shown how NFD normalization may be implemented. >>> >>> >>> Swift programming language >>> ----------------------------------------- >>> >>> How does the Swift programming language [1] deal with Unicode strings? >>> >>> // "Voulez-vous un cafÃ©?" using LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE >>> let eAcuteQuestion = "Voulez-vous un caf\u{E9}?" >>> >>> // "Voulez-vous un café?" using LATIN SMALL LETTER E and >>> COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT >>> let combinedEAcuteQuestion = "Voulez-vous un caf\u{65}\u{301}?" >>> >>> if eAcuteQuestion == combinedEAcuteQuestion { >>> print("These two strings are considered equal") >>> } >>> // prints "These two strings are considered equal" >>> >>> The equality operator uses the NFD (Normalization Form Decomposed)[2] >>> form for the comparison appyling a method >>> #decomposedStringWithCanonicalMapping[3] >>> >>> >>> Squeak / Pharo >>> ----------------------- >>> >>> Comparison without NFD [3] >>> >>> >>> "Voulez-vous un cafÃ©?" >>> eAcuteQuestion := 'Voulez-vous un caf', 16rE9 asCharacter asString, '?'. >>> combinedEAcuteQuestion := 'Voulez-vous un cafe', 16r301 asCharacter >>> asString, '?'. >>> >>> >>> eAcuteQuestion = combinedEAcuteQuestion >>> false >>> >>> eAcuteQuestion == combinedEAcuteQuestion >>> false >>> >>> The result is false. A Unicode conformant application however should >>> return *true*. >>> >>> Reason for this is that Squeak / Pharo strings are not put into NFD >>> before testing for equality = >>> >>> >>> Squeak Unicode strings may be tested for Unicode conformant equality >>> by converting them to NFD before testing. >>> >>> >>> >>> Squeak using NFD >>> >>> asDecomposedUnicode[4] transforms a string into NFD for cases where a >>> Unicode code point if decomposed, is decomposed only to two code >>> points [5]. This is so because when initializing [6] the Unicode >>> Character Database in Squeak this is a limitation imposed by the code >>> which reads UnicodeData.txt [7][8]. This is not a necessary >>> limitation. The code may be rewritten at the price of a more complex >>> implementation of #asDecomposedUnicode. >>> >>> "Voulez-vous un cafÃ©?" >>> eAcuteQuestion := 'Voulez-vous un caf', 16rE9 asCharacter asString, '?'. >>> combinedEAcuteQuestion := 'Voulez-vous un cafe', 16r301 asCharacter >>> asString, '?'. >>> >>> >>> eAcuteQuestion asDecomposedUnicode = >>> combinedEAcuteQuestion asDecomposedUnicode >>> >>> true >>> >>> >>> >>> Conclusion >>> ------------------ >>> >>> Implementing a method like #decomposedStringWithCanonicalMapping >>> (swift) which puts a string into NFD (Normalization Form D) is an >>> important building block towards better Unicode compliance. A Squeak >>> proposal is given by [4]. It needs to be reviewed.extended. >>> >>> It should probably be extended for cases where there are more than >>> two code points in the decomposed form (3 or more?) >>> >>> The implementing of NFD comparison gives us an equality test for a >>> comparatively small effort for simple cases covering a large number of >>> use cases (Languages using the Latin script). >>> >>> The algorithm is table driven by the UCD [8]. From this follows an >>> simple but important fact for conformant implementations need runtime >>> access to information from the Unicode Character Database [UCD][9]. >>> >>> >>> [1] >>> https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/Swift/Conceptual/Swif… >>> [2] http://www.unicode.org/glossary/#normalization_form_d >>> [3] >>> https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/Cocoa/Reference/Found… >>> [4] String asDecomposedUnicode http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6250 >>> [5] http://www.unicode.org/glossary/#code_point >>> [6] Unicode initialize http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6248 >>> [7] http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt >>> [8] Unicode Character Database documentation >>> http://unicode.org/reports/tr44/ >>> [9] http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr23/ >> >> >> Today, we have a Unicode and CombinedCharacter class in Pharo, and there is >> different but similar Unicode code in Squeak. These are too simple (even >> though they might work, partially). >> >> The scope of the original threads is way too wide: a new string type, >> normalisation, collation, being cross dialect, mixing all kinds of character >> and encoding definitions. All interesting, but not much will come out of it. >> But the point that we cannot leave proper text string handling to an outside >> library is indeed key. >> >> That is why a couple of people in the Pharo community (myself included) >> started an experimental, proof of concept, prototype project, that aims to >> improve Unicode support. We will announce it to a wider public when we feel >> we have something to show for. The goal is in the first place to understand >> and implement the fundamental algorithms, starting with the 4 forms of >> Normalisation. But we're working on collation/sorting too. >> >> This work is of course being done for/in Pharo, using some of the facilities >> only available there. It probably won't be difficult to port, but we can't >> be bothered with probability right now. >> >> What we started with is loading UCD data and making it available as a nice >> objects (30.000 of them). >> >> So now you can do things like >> >> $Ã© unicodeCharacterData. >> >> => "U+00E9 LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE (LATIN SMALL LETTER E ACUTE)" >> >> $Ã© unicodeCharacterData uppercase asCharacter. >> >> => "$Ã" >> >> $Ã© unicodeCharacterData decompositionMapping. >> >> => "#(101 769)" >> >> There is also a cool GT Inspector view: >> >> >> >> Next we started implementing a normaliser. It was rather easy to get support >> for simpler languages going. The next code snippets use explicit code >> arrays, because copying decomposed diacritics to my mail client does not >> work (they get automatically composed), in a Pharo Workspace this does work >> nicely with plain strings. The higher numbers are the diacritics. >> >> (normalizer decomposeString: 'les Ã©lÃ¨ves FranÃ§ais') collect: #codePoint as: >> Array. >> >> => "#(108 101 115 32 101 769 108 101 768 118 101 115 32 70 114 97 110 99 >> 807 97 105 115)" >> >> (normalizer decomposeString: 'DÃ¼sseldorf KÃ¶nigsallee') collect: #codePoint >> as: Array. >> >> => "#(68 117 776 115 115 101 108 100 111 114 102 32 75 111 776 110 105 103 >> 115 97 108 108 101 101)" >> >> normalizer composeString: (#(108 101 115 32 101 769 108 101 768 118 101 115 >> 32 70 114 97 110 99 807 97 105 115) collect: #asCharacter as: String). >> >> => "'les Ã©lÃ¨ves FranÃ§ais'" >> >> normalizer composeString: (#(68 117 776 115 115 101 108 100 111 114 102 32 >> 75 111 776 110 105 103 115 97 108 108 101 101) collect: #asCharacter as: >> String). >> >> => "'DÃ¼sseldorf KÃ¶nigsallee'" >> >> However, the real algorithm following the official specification (and other >> elements of Unicode that interact with it) is way more complicated (think >> about all those special languages/scripts out there). We're focused on >> understanding/implementing that now. >> >> Next, unit tests were added (of course). As well as a test that uses >> http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/NormalizationTest.txt to run about >> 75.000 individual test cases to check conformance to the official Unicode >> Normalization specification. >> >> Right now (with super cool hangul / jamo code by Henrik), we hit the >> following stats: >> >> #testNFC 16998/18593 (91.42%) >> #testNFD 16797/18593 (90.34%) >> #testNFKC 13321/18593 (71.65%) >> #testNFKD 16564/18593 (89.09%) >> >> Way better than the naive implementations, but not yet there. >> >> We are also experimenting and thinking a lot about how to best implement all >> this, trying out different models/ideas/apis/representations. >> >> It will move slowly, but you will hear from us again in the coming >> weeks/months. >> >> Sven >> >> PS: Pharo developers with a good understanding of this subject area that >> want to help, let me know and we'll put you in the loop. Hacking and >> specification reading are required ;-) >> >> > Kind regards > > Hannes > > > 1) There is a need for improved Unicode support implemented _within_ > the image , probably as a library. > > 1a) This follows the example of the the Twitter CLDR library (i.e. > re-implementation of ICU components for Ruby). > https://github.com/twitter/twitter-cldr-rb > > Other languages/libraries have similar approaches > - dotNet, https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/System.Globalization.CharUnicodeIn…) > - Python https://docs.python.org/3/howto/unicode.html > - Go http://blog.golang.org/strings > - Swift, https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/Swift/Conceptual/Swif… > - Perl http://blog.golang.org/strings > > 1b) ICU is _not_ the way to go (http://site.icu-project.org/) . This > is because of security and portability reasons (Eliot Miranda) and > because of the Smalltalk approach that wants to expose basic > algorithms in Smalltalk code. In addition the 16bit based ICU library > does not fit well with the Squeak/Pharo UTF32 model. > > 2) The Unicode infrastructure (21(32) bit wide Characters as immediate > objects, use of UTF-32 internally, indexable strings, UTF8 for outside > communication, support of code converters) is a very valuable > foundation which makes algorithms more straightforward at the expense > of a more memory usage. It not used to its full potential at all > currently though a lot of hard work has been done. > > 3) The Unicode algorithms are mostly table / database driven. This > means that dictionary lookup is a prominent part of the algorithms. > The essential building block for this is that the Unicode character > database UCD (http://www.unicode.org/ucd/) is made available > _within_ the image with the full content as needed by the target > languages / scripts one wants to deal with. The process of loading the > UCD should be made configurable. > > 3a) a lot of people are interested in the Latin script (and scripts of > similar complexity) only. > 3b) The UCD data in XML form > http://www.unicode.org/Public/8.0.0/ucdxml/ offers a download with > and without the CJK characters. > > 4) The next step is to implement normalization > (http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr15/#Norm_Forms) Glad to read that > you have reached results here with the test data: > http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/NormalizationTest.txt. > > 5) Pharo offers nice inspectors to view dictionaries and ordered > collections (table view, drill down) which facilitates the development > to table driven algorithms. The data structures and algorithm are do > not depend on a particular dialect though and may be ported to Squeak > or Cuis. > > 6) After having implemented normalization, comparison may be > implemented. This needs CLDR access (collation, Unicode Common Locale > Data Repository, http://cldr.unicode.org/ ). > > > 7) An architecture has the following subsystems > > 7a) Basic character handling (21(32)bit characters in indexable > strings, point 2) > 7b) Runtime access to the Unicode Character Database (point 3) > 7c) Converters > 7d) Normalization (point 4) > 7e) CLDR access (point 6) > > > 8) The implementation should be driven by the current needs. > > An attainable next goal is to release > > 8a) a StringBuilder utility class for easier construction of test strings > i.e. instead of > >> normalizer composeString: (#(68 117 776 115 115 101 108 100 111 114 102 32 >> 75 111 776 110 105 103 115 97 108 108 101 101) collect: #asCharacter as: >> String). > > do > normalizer composeString: > (StringBuilder construct: 'Du\u0308sseldorf Ko\u0308nigsallee') > > and construct some test cases with it which illustrate some basic > Unicode issues. > > 8b) identity testing for major languages (e.g. French, German, > Spanish) and scripts of similar complexity. I > > 8c) to provide some more documentation of past and concurrent efforts. > > Note: This summary has only covered string manipulation, not rendering > on the screen which is a different issue. > > > On 12/16/15, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> Hi Hannes, >> >> My detailed comments/answers below, after quoting 2 of your emails: >> >>> On 10 Dec 2015, at 22:17, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hello Sven >>> >>> On 12/9/15, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>> >>>> The simplest example in a common language is (the French letter Ã©) is >>>> >>>> LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE [U+00E9] >>>> >>>> which can also be written as >>>> >>>> LATIN SMALL LETTER E [U+0065] followed by COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT >>>> [U+0301] >>>> >>>> The former being a composed normal form, the latter a decomposed normal >>>> form. (And yes, it is even much more complicated than that, it goes on >>>> for >>>> 1000s of pages). >>>> >>>> In the above example, the concept of character/string is indeed fuzzy. >>>> >>>> HTH, >>>> >>>> Sven >>> >>> Thanks for this example. I have created a wiki page with it >>> >>> I wonder what the Pharo equivalent is of the following Squeak expression >>> >>> $Ã© asString asDecomposedUnicode >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Hannes >> >> You also wrote: >> >>> The text below shows how to deal with the Unicode e acute example >>> brought up by Sven in terms of comparing strings. Currently Pharo and >>> Cuis do not do Normalization of strings. Limited support is in Squeak. >>> It will be shown how NFD normalization may be implemented. >>> >>> >>> Swift programming language >>> ----------------------------------------- >>> >>> How does the Swift programming language [1] deal with Unicode strings? >>> >>> // "Voulez-vous un cafÃ©?" using LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE >>> let eAcuteQuestion = "Voulez-vous un caf\u{E9}?" >>> >>> // "Voulez-vous un café?" using LATIN SMALL LETTER E and >>> COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT >>> let combinedEAcuteQuestion = "Voulez-vous un caf\u{65}\u{301}?" >>> >>> if eAcuteQuestion == combinedEAcuteQuestion { >>> print("These two strings are considered equal") >>> } >>> // prints "These two strings are considered equal" >>> >>> The equality operator uses the NFD (Normalization Form Decomposed)[2] >>> form for the comparison appyling a method >>> #decomposedStringWithCanonicalMapping[3] >>> >>> >>> Squeak / Pharo >>> ----------------------- >>> >>> Comparison without NFD [3] >>> >>> >>> "Voulez-vous un cafÃ©?" >>> eAcuteQuestion := 'Voulez-vous un caf', 16rE9 asCharacter asString, '?'. >>> combinedEAcuteQuestion := 'Voulez-vous un cafe', 16r301 asCharacter >>> asString, '?'. >>> >>> >>> eAcuteQuestion = combinedEAcuteQuestion >>> false >>> >>> eAcuteQuestion == combinedEAcuteQuestion >>> false >>> >>> The result is false. A Unicode conformant application however should >>> return *true*. >>> >>> Reason for this is that Squeak / Pharo strings are not put into NFD >>> before testing for equality = >>> >>> >>> Squeak Unicode strings may be tested for Unicode conformant equality >>> by converting them to NFD before testing. >>> >>> >>> >>> Squeak using NFD >>> >>> asDecomposedUnicode[4] transforms a string into NFD for cases where a >>> Unicode code point if decomposed, is decomposed only to two code >>> points [5]. This is so because when initializing [6] the Unicode >>> Character Database in Squeak this is a limitation imposed by the code >>> which reads UnicodeData.txt [7][8]. This is not a necessary >>> limitation. The code may be rewritten at the price of a more complex >>> implementation of #asDecomposedUnicode. >>> >>> "Voulez-vous un cafÃ©?" >>> eAcuteQuestion := 'Voulez-vous un caf', 16rE9 asCharacter asString, '?'. >>> combinedEAcuteQuestion := 'Voulez-vous un cafe', 16r301 asCharacter >>> asString, '?'. >>> >>> >>> eAcuteQuestion asDecomposedUnicode = >>> combinedEAcuteQuestion asDecomposedUnicode >>> >>> true >>> >>> >>> >>> Conclusion >>> ------------------ >>> >>> Implementing a method like #decomposedStringWithCanonicalMapping >>> (swift) which puts a string into NFD (Normalization Form D) is an >>> important building block towards better Unicode compliance. A Squeak >>> proposal is given by [4]. It needs to be reviewed.extended. >>> >>> It should probably be extended for cases where there are more than >>> two code points in the decomposed form (3 or more?) >>> >>> The implementing of NFD comparison gives us an equality test for a >>> comparatively small effort for simple cases covering a large number of >>> use cases (Languages using the Latin script). >>> >>> The algorithm is table driven by the UCD [8]. From this follows an >>> simple but important fact for conformant implementations need runtime >>> access to information from the Unicode Character Database [UCD][9]. >>> >>> >>> [1] >>> https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/Swift/Conceptual/Swif… >>> [2] http://www.unicode.org/glossary/#normalization_form_d >>> [3] >>> https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/Cocoa/Reference/Found… >>> [4] String asDecomposedUnicode http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6250 >>> [5] http://www.unicode.org/glossary/#code_point >>> [6] Unicode initialize http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6248 >>> [7] http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt >>> [8] Unicode Character Database documentation >>> http://unicode.org/reports/tr44/ >>> [9] http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr23/ >> >> >> Today, we have a Unicode and CombinedCharacter class in Pharo, and there is >> different but similar Unicode code in Squeak. These are too simple (even >> though they might work, partially). >> >> The scope of the original threads is way too wide: a new string type, >> normalisation, collation, being cross dialect, mixing all kinds of character >> and encoding definitions. All interesting, but not much will come out of it. >> But the point that we cannot leave proper text string handling to an outside >> library is indeed key. >> >> That is why a couple of people in the Pharo community (myself included) >> started an experimental, proof of concept, prototype project, that aims to >> improve Unicode support. We will announce it to a wider public when we feel >> we have something to show for. The goal is in the first place to understand >> and implement the fundamental algorithms, starting with the 4 forms of >> Normalisation. But we're working on collation/sorting too. >> >> This work is of course being done for/in Pharo, using some of the facilities >> only available there. It probably won't be difficult to port, but we can't >> be bothered with probability right now. >> >> What we started with is loading UCD data and making it available as a nice >> objects (30.000 of them). >> >> So now you can do things like >> >> $Ã© unicodeCharacterData. >> >> => "U+00E9 LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE (LATIN SMALL LETTER E ACUTE)" >> >> $Ã© unicodeCharacterData uppercase asCharacter. >> >> => "$Ã" >> >> $Ã© unicodeCharacterData decompositionMapping. >> >> => "#(101 769)" >> >> There is also a cool GT Inspector view: >> >> >> >> Next we started implementing a normaliser. It was rather easy to get support >> for simpler languages going. The next code snippets use explicit code >> arrays, because copying decomposed diacritics to my mail client does not >> work (they get automatically composed), in a Pharo Workspace this does work >> nicely with plain strings. The higher numbers are the diacritics. >> >> (normalizer decomposeString: 'les Ã©lÃ¨ves FranÃ§ais') collect: #codePoint as: >> Array. >> >> => "#(108 101 115 32 101 769 108 101 768 118 101 115 32 70 114 97 110 99 >> 807 97 105 115)" >> >> (normalizer decomposeString: 'DÃ¼sseldorf KÃ¶nigsallee') collect: #codePoint >> as: Array. >> >> => "#(68 117 776 115 115 101 108 100 111 114 102 32 75 111 776 110 105 103 >> 115 97 108 108 101 101)" >> >> normalizer composeString: (#(108 101 115 32 101 769 108 101 768 118 101 115 >> 32 70 114 97 110 99 807 97 105 115) collect: #asCharacter as: String). >> >> => "'les Ã©lÃ¨ves FranÃ§ais'" >> >> normalizer composeString: (#(68 117 776 115 115 101 108 100 111 114 102 32 >> 75 111 776 110 105 103 115 97 108 108 101 101) collect: #asCharacter as: >> String). >> >> => "'DÃ¼sseldorf KÃ¶nigsallee'" >> >> However, the real algorithm following the official specification (and other >> elements of Unicode that interact with it) is way more complicated (think >> about all those special languages/scripts out there). We're focused on >> understanding/implementing that now. >> >> Next, unit tests were added (of course). As well as a test that uses >> http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/NormalizationTest.txt to run about >> 75.000 individual test cases to check conformance to the official Unicode >> Normalization specification. >> >> Right now (with super cool hangul / jamo code by Henrik), we hit the >> following stats: >> >> #testNFC 16998/18593 (91.42%) >> #testNFD 16797/18593 (90.34%) >> #testNFKC 13321/18593 (71.65%) >> #testNFKD 16564/18593 (89.09%) >> >> Way better than the naive implementations, but not yet there. >> >> We are also experimenting and thinking a lot about how to best implement all >> this, trying out different models/ideas/apis/representations. >> >> It will move slowly, but you will hear from us again in the coming >> weeks/months. >> >> Sven >> >> PS: Pharo developers with a good understanding of this subject area that >> want to help, let me know and we'll put you in the loop. Hacking and >> specification reading are required ;-) >> >>

Dec. 21, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo Consortium Sponsored Development Effort

by Thierry Goubier

Le 21/12/2015 11:05, Ben Coman a Ã©crit : > On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 8:30 PM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hello >> >> 2015-12-20 19:54 GMT+01:00 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>> That being said, I of course like the idea of distributing processing >>> across multiple images. No wonder, my PhD tool (Marea) and related >>> sub-projects (Fuel, Ghost proxies, etc) have something to do with the >>> mentioned topic. Dave already mentioned about RemoteTask, which was >>> something I was about to mention. There is also Seamless project (now used >>> by Remote Debugger stuff) and quite other tools. Finally, I think this >>> project may have a big percentage that could be considered as "research". So >>> having a PhD / master student working on this would also be nice. In fact, >>> maybe Denis Kudriashov might work on that topic??? (he is now in RMOD team). >> >> >> Yes. This is what I'm doing now. At last weeks of this year I plan to finish >> my improvements to Seamless. Then I will adapt system and tools for remote >> usage. Main goal is allow work with remote images same way we work locally: >> remote debugging, browsing, any kind of system navigation, editing code. > > Cool. I'm looking forward to maybe one day working like that with a > minimal image on embedded hardware. With ARM and MIPS support coming, this looks closer than ever :) Thierry

Dec. 21, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] [Unicode] Summary (Re: Unicode Support // e acute example --> decomposition in Pharo?)

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Andres, There are no plans at all to drop any of the existing character encodings from Pharo. UTF-16 LE & BE will remain part of the standard image, as are all single byte encodings. No need to worry. Sven > On 19 Dec 2015, at 03:04, Andres Valloud <avalloud(a)smalltalk.comcastbiz.net> wrote: > > So a lot of Windows APIs require UTF-16. What's up with UTF-8 being the only choice mentioned for external communication? > > Unicode string encodings like UTF-* and strings of "characters" (that is, sequences of Unicode code points) should be clearly distinguished. Do you really mean "UTF-32", or do you mean "UCS-4"? Even those two are not exactly the same. > > On 12/18/15 5:47 , H. Hirzel wrote: >> Hello Sven >> >> Thank you for your report about about your experimental, proof of >> concept, prototype project, that aims to improve Unicode support. >> Please include me in the loop. >> >> Below is is my attempt at summarizing the Unicode discussion of the last weeks. >> Corrections /comments / additions are welcome. >> >> Kind regards >> >> Hannes >> >> >> 1) There is a need for improved Unicode support implemented _within_ >> the image , probably as a library. >> >> 1a) This follows the example of the the Twitter CLDR library (i.e. >> re-implementation of ICU components for Ruby). >> https://github.com/twitter/twitter-cldr-rb >> >> Other languages/libraries have similar approaches >> - dotNet, https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/System.Globalization.CharUnicodeIn…) >> - Python https://docs.python.org/3/howto/unicode.html >> - Go http://blog.golang.org/strings >> - Swift, https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/Swift/Conceptual/Swif… >> - Perl http://blog.golang.org/strings >> >> 1b) ICU is _not_ the way to go (http://site.icu-project.org/) . This >> is because of security and portability reasons (Eliot Miranda) and >> because of the Smalltalk approach that wants to expose basic >> algorithms in Smalltalk code. In addition the 16bit based ICU library >> does not fit well with the Squeak/Pharo UTF32 model. >> >> 2) The Unicode infrastructure (21(32) bit wide Characters as immediate >> objects, use of UTF-32 internally, indexable strings, UTF8 for outside >> communication, support of code converters) is a very valuable >> foundation which makes algorithms more straightforward at the expense >> of a more memory usage. It not used to its full potential at all >> currently though a lot of hard work has been done. >> >> 3) The Unicode algorithms are mostly table / database driven. This >> means that dictionary lookup is a prominent part of the algorithms. >> The essential building block for this is that the Unicode character >> database UCD (http://www.unicode.org/ucd/) is made available >> _within_ the image with the full content as needed by the target >> languages / scripts one wants to deal with. The process of loading the >> UCD should be made configurable. >> >> 3a) a lot of people are interested in the Latin script (and scripts of >> similar complexity) only. >> 3b) The UCD data in XML form >> http://www.unicode.org/Public/8.0.0/ucdxml/ offers a download with >> and without the CJK characters. >> >> 4) The next step is to implement normalization >> (http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr15/#Norm_Forms) Glad to read that >> you have reached results here with the test data: >> http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/NormalizationTest.txt. >> >> 5) Pharo offers nice inspectors to view dictionaries and ordered >> collections (table view, drill down) which facilitates the development >> to table driven algorithms. The data structures and algorithm are do >> not depend on a particular dialect though and may be ported to Squeak >> or Cuis. >> >> 6) After having implemented normalization, comparison may be >> implemented. This needs CLDR access (collation, Unicode Common Locale >> Data Repository, http://cldr.unicode.org/ ). >> >> >> 7) An architecture has the following subsystems >> >> 7a) Basic character handling (21(32)bit characters in indexable >> strings, point 2) >> 7b) Runtime access to the Unicode Character Database (point 3) >> 7c) Converters >> 7d) Normalization (point 4) >> 7e) CLDR access (point 6) >> >> >> 8) The implementation should be driven by the current needs. >> >> An attainable next goal is to release >> >> 8a) a StringBuilder utility class for easier construction of test strings >> i.e. instead of >> >>> normalizer composeString: (#(68 117 776 115 115 101 108 100 111 114 102 32 >>> 75 111 776 110 105 103 115 97 108 108 101 101) collect: #asCharacter as: >>> String). >> >> do >> normalizer composeString: >> (StringBuilder construct: 'Du\u0308sseldorf Ko\u0308nigsallee') >> >> and construct some test cases with it which illustrate some basic >> Unicode issues. >> >> 8b) identity testing for major languages (e.g. French, German, >> Spanish) and scripts of similar complexity. I >> >> 8c) to provide some more documentation of past and concurrent efforts. >> >> Note: This summary has only covered string manipulation, not rendering >> on the screen which is a different issue. >> >> >> On 12/16/15, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>> Hi Hannes, >>> >>> My detailed comments/answers below, after quoting 2 of your emails: >>> >>>> On 10 Dec 2015, at 22:17, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello Sven >>>> >>>> On 12/9/15, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The simplest example in a common language is (the French letter Ã©) is >>>>> >>>>> LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE [U+00E9] >>>>> >>>>> which can also be written as >>>>> >>>>> LATIN SMALL LETTER E [U+0065] followed by COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT >>>>> [U+0301] >>>>> >>>>> The former being a composed normal form, the latter a decomposed normal >>>>> form. (And yes, it is even much more complicated than that, it goes on >>>>> for >>>>> 1000s of pages). >>>>> >>>>> In the above example, the concept of character/string is indeed fuzzy. >>>>> >>>>> HTH, >>>>> >>>>> Sven >>>> >>>> Thanks for this example. I have created a wiki page with it >>>> >>>> I wonder what the Pharo equivalent is of the following Squeak expression >>>> >>>> $Ã© asString asDecomposedUnicode >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Hannes >>> >>> You also wrote: >>> >>>> The text below shows how to deal with the Unicode e acute example >>>> brought up by Sven in terms of comparing strings. Currently Pharo and >>>> Cuis do not do Normalization of strings. Limited support is in Squeak. >>>> It will be shown how NFD normalization may be implemented. >>>> >>>> >>>> Swift programming language >>>> ----------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> How does the Swift programming language [1] deal with Unicode strings? >>>> >>>> // "Voulez-vous un cafÃ©?" using LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE >>>> let eAcuteQuestion = "Voulez-vous un caf\u{E9}?" >>>> >>>> // "Voulez-vous un café?" using LATIN SMALL LETTER E and >>>> COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT >>>> let combinedEAcuteQuestion = "Voulez-vous un caf\u{65}\u{301}?" >>>> >>>> if eAcuteQuestion == combinedEAcuteQuestion { >>>> print("These two strings are considered equal") >>>> } >>>> // prints "These two strings are considered equal" >>>> >>>> The equality operator uses the NFD (Normalization Form Decomposed)[2] >>>> form for the comparison appyling a method >>>> #decomposedStringWithCanonicalMapping[3] >>>> >>>> >>>> Squeak / Pharo >>>> ----------------------- >>>> >>>> Comparison without NFD [3] >>>> >>>> >>>> "Voulez-vous un cafÃ©?" >>>> eAcuteQuestion := 'Voulez-vous un caf', 16rE9 asCharacter asString, '?'. >>>> combinedEAcuteQuestion := 'Voulez-vous un cafe', 16r301 asCharacter >>>> asString, '?'. >>>> >>>> >>>> eAcuteQuestion = combinedEAcuteQuestion >>>> false >>>> >>>> eAcuteQuestion == combinedEAcuteQuestion >>>> false >>>> >>>> The result is false. A Unicode conformant application however should >>>> return *true*. >>>> >>>> Reason for this is that Squeak / Pharo strings are not put into NFD >>>> before testing for equality = >>>> >>>> >>>> Squeak Unicode strings may be tested for Unicode conformant equality >>>> by converting them to NFD before testing. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Squeak using NFD >>>> >>>> asDecomposedUnicode[4] transforms a string into NFD for cases where a >>>> Unicode code point if decomposed, is decomposed only to two code >>>> points [5]. This is so because when initializing [6] the Unicode >>>> Character Database in Squeak this is a limitation imposed by the code >>>> which reads UnicodeData.txt [7][8]. This is not a necessary >>>> limitation. The code may be rewritten at the price of a more complex >>>> implementation of #asDecomposedUnicode. >>>> >>>> "Voulez-vous un cafÃ©?" >>>> eAcuteQuestion := 'Voulez-vous un caf', 16rE9 asCharacter asString, '?'. >>>> combinedEAcuteQuestion := 'Voulez-vous un cafe', 16r301 asCharacter >>>> asString, '?'. >>>> >>>> >>>> eAcuteQuestion asDecomposedUnicode = >>>> combinedEAcuteQuestion asDecomposedUnicode >>>> >>>> true >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Conclusion >>>> ------------------ >>>> >>>> Implementing a method like #decomposedStringWithCanonicalMapping >>>> (swift) which puts a string into NFD (Normalization Form D) is an >>>> important building block towards better Unicode compliance. A Squeak >>>> proposal is given by [4]. It needs to be reviewed.extended. >>>> >>>> It should probably be extended for cases where there are more than >>>> two code points in the decomposed form (3 or more?) >>>> >>>> The implementing of NFD comparison gives us an equality test for a >>>> comparatively small effort for simple cases covering a large number of >>>> use cases (Languages using the Latin script). >>>> >>>> The algorithm is table driven by the UCD [8]. From this follows an >>>> simple but important fact for conformant implementations need runtime >>>> access to information from the Unicode Character Database [UCD][9]. >>>> >>>> >>>> [1] >>>> https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/Swift/Conceptual/Swif… >>>> [2] http://www.unicode.org/glossary/#normalization_form_d >>>> [3] >>>> https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/Cocoa/Reference/Found… >>>> [4] String asDecomposedUnicode http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6250 >>>> [5] http://www.unicode.org/glossary/#code_point >>>> [6] Unicode initialize http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6248 >>>> [7] http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt >>>> [8] Unicode Character Database documentation >>>> http://unicode.org/reports/tr44/ >>>> [9] http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr23/ >>> >>> >>> Today, we have a Unicode and CombinedCharacter class in Pharo, and there is >>> different but similar Unicode code in Squeak. These are too simple (even >>> though they might work, partially). >>> >>> The scope of the original threads is way too wide: a new string type, >>> normalisation, collation, being cross dialect, mixing all kinds of character >>> and encoding definitions. All interesting, but not much will come out of it. >>> But the point that we cannot leave proper text string handling to an outside >>> library is indeed key. >>> >>> That is why a couple of people in the Pharo community (myself included) >>> started an experimental, proof of concept, prototype project, that aims to >>> improve Unicode support. We will announce it to a wider public when we feel >>> we have something to show for. The goal is in the first place to understand >>> and implement the fundamental algorithms, starting with the 4 forms of >>> Normalisation. But we're working on collation/sorting too. >>> >>> This work is of course being done for/in Pharo, using some of the facilities >>> only available there. It probably won't be difficult to port, but we can't >>> be bothered with probability right now. >>> >>> What we started with is loading UCD data and making it available as a nice >>> objects (30.000 of them). >>> >>> So now you can do things like >>> >>> $Ã© unicodeCharacterData. >>> >>> => "U+00E9 LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE (LATIN SMALL LETTER E ACUTE)" >>> >>> $Ã© unicodeCharacterData uppercase asCharacter. >>> >>> => "$Ã" >>> >>> $Ã© unicodeCharacterData decompositionMapping. >>> >>> => "#(101 769)" >>> >>> There is also a cool GT Inspector view: >>> >>> >>> >>> Next we started implementing a normaliser. It was rather easy to get support >>> for simpler languages going. The next code snippets use explicit code >>> arrays, because copying decomposed diacritics to my mail client does not >>> work (they get automatically composed), in a Pharo Workspace this does work >>> nicely with plain strings. The higher numbers are the diacritics. >>> >>> (normalizer decomposeString: 'les Ã©lÃ¨ves FranÃ§ais') collect: #codePoint as: >>> Array. >>> >>> => "#(108 101 115 32 101 769 108 101 768 118 101 115 32 70 114 97 110 99 >>> 807 97 105 115)" >>> >>> (normalizer decomposeString: 'DÃ¼sseldorf KÃ¶nigsallee') collect: #codePoint >>> as: Array. >>> >>> => "#(68 117 776 115 115 101 108 100 111 114 102 32 75 111 776 110 105 103 >>> 115 97 108 108 101 101)" >>> >>> normalizer composeString: (#(108 101 115 32 101 769 108 101 768 118 101 115 >>> 32 70 114 97 110 99 807 97 105 115) collect: #asCharacter as: String). >>> >>> => "'les Ã©lÃ¨ves FranÃ§ais'" >>> >>> normalizer composeString: (#(68 117 776 115 115 101 108 100 111 114 102 32 >>> 75 111 776 110 105 103 115 97 108 108 101 101) collect: #asCharacter as: >>> String). >>> >>> => "'DÃ¼sseldorf KÃ¶nigsallee'" >>> >>> However, the real algorithm following the official specification (and other >>> elements of Unicode that interact with it) is way more complicated (think >>> about all those special languages/scripts out there). We're focused on >>> understanding/implementing that now. >>> >>> Next, unit tests were added (of course). As well as a test that uses >>> http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/NormalizationTest.txt to run about >>> 75.000 individual test cases to check conformance to the official Unicode >>> Normalization specification. >>> >>> Right now (with super cool hangul / jamo code by Henrik), we hit the >>> following stats: >>> >>> #testNFC 16998/18593 (91.42%) >>> #testNFD 16797/18593 (90.34%) >>> #testNFKC 13321/18593 (71.65%) >>> #testNFKD 16564/18593 (89.09%) >>> >>> Way better than the naive implementations, but not yet there. >>> >>> We are also experimenting and thinking a lot about how to best implement all >>> this, trying out different models/ideas/apis/representations. >>> >>> It will move slowly, but you will hear from us again in the coming >>> weeks/months. >>> >>> Sven >>> >>> PS: Pharo developers with a good understanding of this subject area that >>> want to help, let me know and we'll put you in the loop. Hacking and >>> specification reading are required ;-) >>> >>> >> >> . >> > On 19 Dec 2015, at 03:04, Andres Valloud <avalloud(a)smalltalk.comcastbiz.net> wrote: > > So a lot of Windows APIs require UTF-16. What's up with UTF-8 being the only choice mentioned for external communication? > > Unicode string encodings like UTF-* and strings of "characters" (that is, sequences of Unicode code points) should be clearly distinguished. Do you really mean "UTF-32", or do you mean "UCS-4"? Even those two are not exactly the same. > > On 12/18/15 5:47 , H. Hirzel wrote: >> Hello Sven >> >> Thank you for your report about about your experimental, proof of >> concept, prototype project, that aims to improve Unicode support. >> Please include me in the loop. >> >> Below is is my attempt at summarizing the Unicode discussion of the last weeks. >> Corrections /comments / additions are welcome. >> >> Kind regards >> >> Hannes >> >> >> 1) There is a need for improved Unicode support implemented _within_ >> the image , probably as a library. >> >> 1a) This follows the example of the the Twitter CLDR library (i.e. >> re-implementation of ICU components for Ruby). >> https://github.com/twitter/twitter-cldr-rb >> >> Other languages/libraries have similar approaches >> - dotNet, https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/System.Globalization.CharUnicodeIn…) >> - Python https://docs.python.org/3/howto/unicode.html >> - Go http://blog.golang.org/strings >> - Swift, https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/Swift/Conceptual/Swif… >> - Perl http://blog.golang.org/strings >> >> 1b) ICU is _not_ the way to go (http://site.icu-project.org/) . This >> is because of security and portability reasons (Eliot Miranda) and >> because of the Smalltalk approach that wants to expose basic >> algorithms in Smalltalk code. In addition the 16bit based ICU library >> does not fit well with the Squeak/Pharo UTF32 model. >> >> 2) The Unicode infrastructure (21(32) bit wide Characters as immediate >> objects, use of UTF-32 internally, indexable strings, UTF8 for outside >> communication, support of code converters) is a very valuable >> foundation which makes algorithms more straightforward at the expense >> of a more memory usage. It not used to its full potential at all >> currently though a lot of hard work has been done. >> >> 3) The Unicode algorithms are mostly table / database driven. This >> means that dictionary lookup is a prominent part of the algorithms. >> The essential building block for this is that the Unicode character >> database UCD (http://www.unicode.org/ucd/) is made available >> _within_ the image with the full content as needed by the target >> languages / scripts one wants to deal with. The process of loading the >> UCD should be made configurable. >> >> 3a) a lot of people are interested in the Latin script (and scripts of >> similar complexity) only. >> 3b) The UCD data in XML form >> http://www.unicode.org/Public/8.0.0/ucdxml/ offers a download with >> and without the CJK characters. >> >> 4) The next step is to implement normalization >> (http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr15/#Norm_Forms) Glad to read that >> you have reached results here with the test data: >> http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/NormalizationTest.txt. >> >> 5) Pharo offers nice inspectors to view dictionaries and ordered >> collections (table view, drill down) which facilitates the development >> to table driven algorithms. The data structures and algorithm are do >> not depend on a particular dialect though and may be ported to Squeak >> or Cuis. >> >> 6) After having implemented normalization, comparison may be >> implemented. This needs CLDR access (collation, Unicode Common Locale >> Data Repository, http://cldr.unicode.org/ ). >> >> >> 7) An architecture has the following subsystems >> >> 7a) Basic character handling (21(32)bit characters in indexable >> strings, point 2) >> 7b) Runtime access to the Unicode Character Database (point 3) >> 7c) Converters >> 7d) Normalization (point 4) >> 7e) CLDR access (point 6) >> >> >> 8) The implementation should be driven by the current needs. >> >> An attainable next goal is to release >> >> 8a) a StringBuilder utility class for easier construction of test strings >> i.e. instead of >> >>> normalizer composeString: (#(68 117 776 115 115 101 108 100 111 114 102 32 >>> 75 111 776 110 105 103 115 97 108 108 101 101) collect: #asCharacter as: >>> String). >> >> do >> normalizer composeString: >> (StringBuilder construct: 'Du\u0308sseldorf Ko\u0308nigsallee') >> >> and construct some test cases with it which illustrate some basic >> Unicode issues. >> >> 8b) identity testing for major languages (e.g. French, German, >> Spanish) and scripts of similar complexity. I >> >> 8c) to provide some more documentation of past and concurrent efforts. >> >> Note: This summary has only covered string manipulation, not rendering >> on the screen which is a different issue. >> >> >> On 12/16/15, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>> Hi Hannes, >>> >>> My detailed comments/answers below, after quoting 2 of your emails: >>> >>>> On 10 Dec 2015, at 22:17, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello Sven >>>> >>>> On 12/9/15, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The simplest example in a common language is (the French letter Ã©) is >>>>> >>>>> LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE [U+00E9] >>>>> >>>>> which can also be written as >>>>> >>>>> LATIN SMALL LETTER E [U+0065] followed by COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT >>>>> [U+0301] >>>>> >>>>> The former being a composed normal form, the latter a decomposed normal >>>>> form. (And yes, it is even much more complicated than that, it goes on >>>>> for >>>>> 1000s of pages). >>>>> >>>>> In the above example, the concept of character/string is indeed fuzzy. >>>>> >>>>> HTH, >>>>> >>>>> Sven >>>> >>>> Thanks for this example. I have created a wiki page with it >>>> >>>> I wonder what the Pharo equivalent is of the following Squeak expression >>>> >>>> $Ã© asString asDecomposedUnicode >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Hannes >>> >>> You also wrote: >>> >>>> The text below shows how to deal with the Unicode e acute example >>>> brought up by Sven in terms of comparing strings. Currently Pharo and >>>> Cuis do not do Normalization of strings. Limited support is in Squeak. >>>> It will be shown how NFD normalization may be implemented. >>>> >>>> >>>> Swift programming language >>>> ----------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> How does the Swift programming language [1] deal with Unicode strings? >>>> >>>> // "Voulez-vous un cafÃ©?" using LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE >>>> let eAcuteQuestion = "Voulez-vous un caf\u{E9}?" >>>> >>>> // "Voulez-vous un café?" using LATIN SMALL LETTER E and >>>> COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT >>>> let combinedEAcuteQuestion = "Voulez-vous un caf\u{65}\u{301}?" >>>> >>>> if eAcuteQuestion == combinedEAcuteQuestion { >>>> print("These two strings are considered equal") >>>> } >>>> // prints "These two strings are considered equal" >>>> >>>> The equality operator uses the NFD (Normalization Form Decomposed)[2] >>>> form for the comparison appyling a method >>>> #decomposedStringWithCanonicalMapping[3] >>>> >>>> >>>> Squeak / Pharo >>>> ----------------------- >>>> >>>> Comparison without NFD [3] >>>> >>>> >>>> "Voulez-vous un cafÃ©?" >>>> eAcuteQuestion := 'Voulez-vous un caf', 16rE9 asCharacter asString, '?'. >>>> combinedEAcuteQuestion := 'Voulez-vous un cafe', 16r301 asCharacter >>>> asString, '?'. >>>> >>>> >>>> eAcuteQuestion = combinedEAcuteQuestion >>>> false >>>> >>>> eAcuteQuestion == combinedEAcuteQuestion >>>> false >>>> >>>> The result is false. A Unicode conformant application however should >>>> return *true*. >>>> >>>> Reason for this is that Squeak / Pharo strings are not put into NFD >>>> before testing for equality = >>>> >>>> >>>> Squeak Unicode strings may be tested for Unicode conformant equality >>>> by converting them to NFD before testing. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Squeak using NFD >>>> >>>> asDecomposedUnicode[4] transforms a string into NFD for cases where a >>>> Unicode code point if decomposed, is decomposed only to two code >>>> points [5]. This is so because when initializing [6] the Unicode >>>> Character Database in Squeak this is a limitation imposed by the code >>>> which reads UnicodeData.txt [7][8]. This is not a necessary >>>> limitation. The code may be rewritten at the price of a more complex >>>> implementation of #asDecomposedUnicode. >>>> >>>> "Voulez-vous un cafÃ©?" >>>> eAcuteQuestion := 'Voulez-vous un caf', 16rE9 asCharacter asString, '?'. >>>> combinedEAcuteQuestion := 'Voulez-vous un cafe', 16r301 asCharacter >>>> asString, '?'. >>>> >>>> >>>> eAcuteQuestion asDecomposedUnicode = >>>> combinedEAcuteQuestion asDecomposedUnicode >>>> >>>> true >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Conclusion >>>> ------------------ >>>> >>>> Implementing a method like #decomposedStringWithCanonicalMapping >>>> (swift) which puts a string into NFD (Normalization Form D) is an >>>> important building block towards better Unicode compliance. A Squeak >>>> proposal is given by [4]. It needs to be reviewed.extended. >>>> >>>> It should probably be extended for cases where there are more than >>>> two code points in the decomposed form (3 or more?) >>>> >>>> The implementing of NFD comparison gives us an equality test for a >>>> comparatively small effort for simple cases covering a large number of >>>> use cases (Languages using the Latin script). >>>> >>>> The algorithm is table driven by the UCD [8]. From this follows an >>>> simple but important fact for conformant implementations need runtime >>>> access to information from the Unicode Character Database [UCD][9]. >>>> >>>> >>>> [1] >>>> https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/Swift/Conceptual/Swif… >>>> [2] http://www.unicode.org/glossary/#normalization_form_d >>>> [3] >>>> https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/Cocoa/Reference/Found… >>>> [4] String asDecomposedUnicode http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6250 >>>> [5] http://www.unicode.org/glossary/#code_point >>>> [6] Unicode initialize http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6248 >>>> [7] http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt >>>> [8] Unicode Character Database documentation >>>> http://unicode.org/reports/tr44/ >>>> [9] http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr23/ >>> >>> >>> Today, we have a Unicode and CombinedCharacter class in Pharo, and there is >>> different but similar Unicode code in Squeak. These are too simple (even >>> though they might work, partially). >>> >>> The scope of the original threads is way too wide: a new string type, >>> normalisation, collation, being cross dialect, mixing all kinds of character >>> and encoding definitions. All interesting, but not much will come out of it. >>> But the point that we cannot leave proper text string handling to an outside >>> library is indeed key. >>> >>> That is why a couple of people in the Pharo community (myself included) >>> started an experimental, proof of concept, prototype project, that aims to >>> improve Unicode support. We will announce it to a wider public when we feel >>> we have something to show for. The goal is in the first place to understand >>> and implement the fundamental algorithms, starting with the 4 forms of >>> Normalisation. But we're working on collation/sorting too. >>> >>> This work is of course being done for/in Pharo, using some of the facilities >>> only available there. It probably won't be difficult to port, but we can't >>> be bothered with probability right now. >>> >>> What we started with is loading UCD data and making it available as a nice >>> objects (30.000 of them). >>> >>> So now you can do things like >>> >>> $Ã© unicodeCharacterData. >>> >>> => "U+00E9 LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE (LATIN SMALL LETTER E ACUTE)" >>> >>> $Ã© unicodeCharacterData uppercase asCharacter. >>> >>> => "$Ã" >>> >>> $Ã© unicodeCharacterData decompositionMapping. >>> >>> => "#(101 769)" >>> >>> There is also a cool GT Inspector view: >>> >>> >>> >>> Next we started implementing a normaliser. It was rather easy to get support >>> for simpler languages going. The next code snippets use explicit code >>> arrays, because copying decomposed diacritics to my mail client does not >>> work (they get automatically composed), in a Pharo Workspace this does work >>> nicely with plain strings. The higher numbers are the diacritics. >>> >>> (normalizer decomposeString: 'les Ã©lÃ¨ves FranÃ§ais') collect: #codePoint as: >>> Array. >>> >>> => "#(108 101 115 32 101 769 108 101 768 118 101 115 32 70 114 97 110 99 >>> 807 97 105 115)" >>> >>> (normalizer decomposeString: 'DÃ¼sseldorf KÃ¶nigsallee') collect: #codePoint >>> as: Array. >>> >>> => "#(68 117 776 115 115 101 108 100 111 114 102 32 75 111 776 110 105 103 >>> 115 97 108 108 101 101)" >>> >>> normalizer composeString: (#(108 101 115 32 101 769 108 101 768 118 101 115 >>> 32 70 114 97 110 99 807 97 105 115) collect: #asCharacter as: String). >>> >>> => "'les Ã©lÃ¨ves FranÃ§ais'" >>> >>> normalizer composeString: (#(68 117 776 115 115 101 108 100 111 114 102 32 >>> 75 111 776 110 105 103 115 97 108 108 101 101) collect: #asCharacter as: >>> String). >>> >>> => "'DÃ¼sseldorf KÃ¶nigsallee'" >>> >>> However, the real algorithm following the official specification (and other >>> elements of Unicode that interact with it) is way more complicated (think >>> about all those special languages/scripts out there). We're focused on >>> understanding/implementing that now. >>> >>> Next, unit tests were added (of course). As well as a test that uses >>> http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/NormalizationTest.txt to run about >>> 75.000 individual test cases to check conformance to the official Unicode >>> Normalization specification. >>> >>> Right now (with super cool hangul / jamo code by Henrik), we hit the >>> following stats: >>> >>> #testNFC 16998/18593 (91.42%) >>> #testNFD 16797/18593 (90.34%) >>> #testNFKC 13321/18593 (71.65%) >>> #testNFKD 16564/18593 (89.09%) >>> >>> Way better than the naive implementations, but not yet there. >>> >>> We are also experimenting and thinking a lot about how to best implement all >>> this, trying out different models/ideas/apis/representations. >>> >>> It will move slowly, but you will hear from us again in the coming >>> weeks/months. >>> >>> Sven >>> >>> PS: Pharo developers with a good understanding of this subject area that >>> want to help, let me know and we'll put you in the loop. Hacking and >>> specification reading are required ;-) >>> >>> >> >> . >>

Dec. 21, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo Consortium Sponsored Development Effort

by Ben Coman

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 8:30 PM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello > > 2015-12-20 19:54 GMT+01:00 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: >> >> That being said, I of course like the idea of distributing processing >> across multiple images. No wonder, my PhD tool (Marea) and related >> sub-projects (Fuel, Ghost proxies, etc) have something to do with the >> mentioned topic. Dave already mentioned about RemoteTask, which was >> something I was about to mention. There is also Seamless project (now used >> by Remote Debugger stuff) and quite other tools. Finally, I think this >> project may have a big percentage that could be considered as "research". So >> having a PhD / master student working on this would also be nice. In fact, >> maybe Denis Kudriashov might work on that topic??? (he is now in RMOD team). > > > Yes. This is what I'm doing now. At last weeks of this year I plan to finish > my improvements to Seamless. Then I will adapt system and tools for remote > usage. Main goal is allow work with remote images same way we work locally: > remote debugging, browsing, any kind of system navigation, editing code. Cool. I'm looking forward to maybe one day working like that with a minimal image on embedded hardware. cheers -ben

Dec. 21, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo Consortium Sponsored Development Effort

by Denis Kudriashov

Hello 2015-12-20 19:54 GMT+01:00 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > That being said, I of course like the idea of distributing processing > across multiple images. No wonder, my PhD tool (Marea) and related > sub-projects (Fuel, Ghost proxies, etc) have something to do with the > mentioned topic. Dave already mentioned about RemoteTask, which was > something I was about to mention. There is also Seamless project (now used > by Remote Debugger stuff) and quite other tools. Finally, I think this > project may have a big percentage that could be considered as "research". > So having a PhD / master student working on this would also be nice. In > fact, maybe Denis Kudriashov might work on that topic??? (he is now in > RMOD team). Yes. This is what I'm doing now. At last weeks of this year I plan to finish my improvements to Seamless. Then I will adapt system and tools for remote usage. Main goal is allow work with remote images same way we work locally: remote debugging, browsing, any kind of system navigation, editing code.

Dec. 21, 2015

[pharo-project/pharo-core]

by GitHub

Branch: refs/tags/50508 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

Dec. 21, 2015

[pharo-project/pharo-core] e8216b: 50508

by GitHub

Branch: refs/heads/5.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: e8216bc7a0ab9fb6f8289d8aabea9fcd1174f878 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/e8216bc7a0ab9fb6f8289d8a… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2015-12-21 (Mon, 21 Dec 2015) Changed paths: A Fuel.package/extension/Behavior/instance/largeIdentityHash.st R Kernel.package/Behavior.class/instance/as yet unclassified/largeIdentityHash.st M Kernel.package/ProtoObject.class/instance/pointing to/pointersToExcept_.st R ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script50507.st A ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script50508.st R ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update50507.st A ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update50508.st M ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st M System-Support.package/SmalltalkImage.class/instance/special objects/newSpecialObjectsArray.st M System-Support.package/SystemNavigation.class/instance/query/allObjectsDo_.st M Tools-Test.package/MethodFinderTest.class/instance/test examples/testPointY.st Log Message: ----------- 50508 17277 newSpecialObjectsArray should return a process list instead of a linked list at item 41 https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17277 17268 Spur Migration - #pointersTo not working https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17268 17271 Spur Migration - MethodFinderTest is relaying in the order of the returned selectors for the test. https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17271 17272 Uncategorized spur-related methods should be classified https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17272 http://files.pharo.org/image/50/50508.zip

Dec. 21, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] #sum:, #detectSum:, #sumNumbers:

by Tudor Girba

Hi, I cannot seem to agree with the current line of reasoning, so I am withdrawing from this debate. Itâs late in the year and I know I need a break, so it is likely that I am missing something obvious or that I am just persisting in some sort of bike-shedding point of view :). Thanks for keeping up with this. I wish you all a lovely holiday and see you next year! Doru > On Dec 20, 2015, at 8:23 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I did a pass on all the changes that would be required (whatever the outcome of this discussion). Looks easy enough. One interesting point: FloatArray>>sum is implemented as a primitive in the FloatArrayPlugin and the zero element is explicitly defined as 0.0. The primitive will not fail for an empty collection but return 0.0. That would be in line with our new definition of #sum. > > > One other thing: should the old selectors be marked as deprecated rather than being removed? I think thatâs the general policy, right? > > Cheers, > Max > > >> On 20 Dec 2015, at 18:19, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>> On 20 Dec 2015, at 15:26, Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com> wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 12:43 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>> Doru, >>>> >>>> For me this whole discussion started because you (the standpoint that you take) hijacked the best selector (#sum) for a use case that is much less common than adding a collection of numbers which should give 0 when empty (you hijack it by not wanting to return 0, which I totally understand, but doing so you redefine the meaning/semantics). >>>> >>>> Max's point is to make everything more consistent and remove some API. I support that too. >>>> >>>> Now, I like Max's proposal. >>>> >>>> But, you know, my conclusion when the thread ended was that it might be better to throw all these selectors away, since #inject:into: covers most use cases at least as well and at least as clear. >>>> >>>> Sven >>>> >>>>> On 20 Dec 2015, at 14:10, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Could we not have sum, but sumNumbers instead? So, we would end up with: >>>>> >>>>> sum:ifEmpty: >>>>> sum: (with error) >>>>> sumNumbers (without error) >>>>> >>>>> From the outside, #sum: looks like it should parameterize #sum, but the implementation is actually different. So, given that in this implementation #sum is not a special case of #sum: the two should be named differently to reflect that difference. Hence my proposal is to keep #sumNumbers instead of #sum. >>> >>> >>> I agree somewhat with Duro to avoid #sum and #sum: having different semantics, >>> but I agree more with Sven about keeping #sum for numbers only and >>> returning zero, >>> so why not turn Doru's suggestion around... >>> >>> #sum (empty --> 0) >>> #sumBy: (empty --> error) >>> #sumBy: ifEmpty: (empty --> no error) >>> >>> alternatively could be #sumUsing: or #sumWith: or something similar. >> >> Also a good idea. However, looking at the methods on Collection, the pattern is usually #message and #message:, e.g. #sorted and #sorted:. There used to be #sortBy: but it was removed because the view was that the protocol semantics should be the same across all methods. >> The current case is a bit different of course since weâre dealing with the problem of the zero element which doesnât arise in most other cases. Still, I think from a users point of view it would be strange to have to use #sumBy: when every other message pair uses the #message / #message: pattern. >> >> I feel that this argument (thanks Ben :) ) is also a valid point against Doruâs argument for #sumNumbers. While #sumNumbers may *technically* be the best name (which we canât seem to agree onâ¦), #sum, #sum: and #sum:ifEmpty: form a triple that naturally fits into the naming protocol applied elsewhere. >> >> >> Cheers, >> Max >> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 20, 2015, at 1:47 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 20 Dec 2015, at 13:43, Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Max, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> sum: aBlock ifEmpty: emptyBlock needs to obtain the sample evaluating the block. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> sum: aBlock ifEmpty: emptyBlock >>>>>>> | sum sample | >>>>>>> self isEmpty ifTrue: [ ^ emptyBlock value ]. >>>>>>> sample := aBlock value: self anyOne. >>>>>>> sum := self >>>>>>> inject: sample >>>>>>> into: [ :accum :each | accum + (aBlock value: each) ]. >>>>>>> ^ sum - sample >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks! Missed that. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 8:59 AM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> I would like to wrap up this discussion. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 05 Dec 2015, at 18:14, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So what is the conclusion? >>>>>>>> I like the idea of Esteban M to have iterator because it moves some behavior out of core classes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [[[ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> aCollection arithmetic sum: [...] or.... aCollection >>>>>>>> arithmetic avg. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ]]] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> While I think that iterators are an intriguing idea I also believe that they are beyond the scope of this issue. If anybody wants to follow up on iterators (or unit types for that matter) please start a new thread / issue. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I propose to use Svenâs version for #sum:ifEmpty:. The result would be these three methods: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> sum >>>>>>> ^ self >>>>>>> sum: [ :each | each ] >>>>>>> ifEmpty: [ 0 ] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> sum: aBlock >>>>>>> ^ self >>>>>>> sum: aBlock >>>>>>> ifEmpty: [ self errorEmptyCollection ] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> sum: aBlock ifEmpty: emptyBlock >>>>>>> | sum sample | >>>>>>> self isEmpty ifTrue: [ ^ emptyBlock value ]. >>>>>>> sample := self anyOne. >>>>>>> sum := self >>>>>>> inject: sample >>>>>>> into: [ :accum :each | accum + (aBlock value: each) ]. >>>>>>> ^ sum - sample >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Iâve attached a couple of benchmark results below. To me they show that >>>>>>> 1. the new implementation is maybe a tiny bit slower but insignificantly so (if youâre going for performance youâll probably write your own optimised version anyway) >>>>>>> 2. there is no need to duplicate the code (like #sum and #sum: currently do). Itâs perfectly fine to delegate to #sum:ifEmpty: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In addition to the above changes I would like to remove #detectSum: (-> #sum:) and #sumNumbers (-> #sum). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Note that once we agree on changing this API, we will need to also change #detectMin:, #detectMax:, #min, #max as well as all overrides (e.g. RunArray, Interval) of these and of #sum et. al. to stay consistent. The changes would of course be in line with this change, such that every operation has a unary selector with a sensible default, one that takes a block and throws an error for empty collections and a third that takes a block for the iteration and one for the empty case. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please cast your vote for these changes: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. Do you agree to changing #sum and #sum: in the suggested way? >>> yes >>> >>>>>>> 2. Do you agree to the removal of #detectSum:? >>> ?? (not familiar) >>> >>>>>>> 3. Do you agree to the removal of #sumNumbers? >>> yes >>> >>>>>>> 4. Do you agree that the #max and #min selectors also need to be adapted? >>> ?? (not familiar) >> > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Speaking louder won't make the point worthier."

Dec. 20, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo Consortium Sponsored Development Effort

by Thierry Goubier

Hi Mariano, Le 20/12/2015 19:54, Mariano Martinez Peck a Ã©crit : > Hi Dimitri, Dave et all. > > First let me do a little disclaimer. Regarding the developments itself > of this sponsorship, we discussed about the topics I said in the first > email. However, those are not written in stone and that's why I also > asked for feedback. As you know, Pharo has relatively little resources > so those should be well spent. If we decide to take a spin into a > project X, it doesn't mean other projects are not worth. It simply means > that we think X will be the most useful for the time being. > > One of the final goals of the discusses topics, is to improve a bit the > infrastructure for using Pharo as scripting (imagine Coral). For such a > thing, we believe that improving FileSystem and OSProcess-like is a good > first step to improve the underlying infrastructure. Would we have access then to a command-line oriented minimal Pharo image? > That being said, I of course like the idea of distributing processing > across multiple images. No wonder, my PhD tool (Marea) and related > sub-projects (Fuel, Ghost proxies, etc) have something to do with the > mentioned topic. Dave already mentioned about RemoteTask, which was > something I was about to mention. There is also Seamless project (now > used by Remote Debugger stuff) and quite other tools. Finally, I think > this project may have a big percentage that could be considered as > "research". So having a PhD / master student working on this would also > be nice. In fact, maybe Denis Kudriashov might work on that topic??? (he > is now in RMOD team). > > Also, not that forking the image is not my main short-term goal. As > said, I will experiment first with a simple tool to execute OS commands > that would be FFI based, trying to make async operations, and that would > help in most cases. Maybe for those that are not supported, then > fallback in OSProcess. Note that Dave (OSProcess author) is very helpful > with me and we are discussing together about this. My guess is that, at least on Linux/Unix, that FFI will be exactly the same as the one used/expressed by the OSProcess plugin, that is popen/system. Now, given some of the difficulties seen when dealing with external processes, I'd be wary of the "async" side of things. Random failures seemingly linked to signal loss are certainly not something I'd like to debug. Something interesting and powerful would be pseudo-tty support. It would allow a Pharo image to maintain an open connection to a shell, for example, reducing the cost and latency of launching external commands and maintaining a context. Regards, Thierry

Dec. 20, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo Consortium Sponsored Development Effort

by Dimitris Chloupis

yeah I completely agree that any improvement is more than welcomed. Thanks I will check out RemoteTask and Seamless :) On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 8:55 PM Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Dimitri, Dave et all. > > First let me do a little disclaimer. Regarding the developments itself of > this sponsorship, we discussed about the topics I said in the first email. > However, those are not written in stone and that's why I also asked for > feedback. As you know, Pharo has relatively little resources so those > should be well spent. If we decide to take a spin into a project X, it > doesn't mean other projects are not worth. It simply means that we think X > will be the most useful for the time being. > > One of the final goals of the discusses topics, is to improve a bit the > infrastructure for using Pharo as scripting (imagine Coral). For such a > thing, we believe that improving FileSystem and OSProcess-like is a good > first step to improve the underlying infrastructure. > > That being said, I of course like the idea of distributing processing > across multiple images. No wonder, my PhD tool (Marea) and related > sub-projects (Fuel, Ghost proxies, etc) have something to do with the > mentioned topic. Dave already mentioned about RemoteTask, which was > something I was about to mention. There is also Seamless project (now used > by Remote Debugger stuff) and quite other tools. Finally, I think this > project may have a big percentage that could be considered as "research". > So having a PhD / master student working on this would also be nice. In > fact, maybe Denis Kudriashov might work on that topic??? (he is now in > RMOD team). > > Also, not that forking the image is not my main short-term goal. As said, > I will experiment first with a simple tool to execute OS commands that > would be FFI based, trying to make async operations, and that would help in > most cases. Maybe for those that are not supported, then fallback in > OSProcess. Note that Dave (OSProcess author) is very helpful with me and we > are discussing together about this. > > Torsten, thanks about OS. I will check out that project. I started with > OSProcess and Limbo. So it's good to have another to check. > > I will try to make the survey starting next week. > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 2:17 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> how the communication is happening via Fuel , does it save to a fuel file >> or it does it through memory some way ? >> >> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 6:04 PM David T. Lewis <lewis(a)mail.msen.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 05:07:47PM +0800, Pierce Ng wrote: >>> > On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 08:56:43AM +0000, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: >>> > > Fuel I assume enters here the equation as a data exchange format , >>> the >>> > > problem I have with fuel is that its not backward compatible which >>> for me >>> > >>> >>> Fuel works well in this case. Version compatibility is not an issue, >>> because >>> when you fork an image/VM the two cooperating images are essentially >>> identical. >>> >>> > Once you have a set of OS processes running Pharo how they talk to >>> each other >>> > is up to you no? E.g. the Pharo instances could use ZeroMQ, XML-RPC, >>> JSONRPC, >>> > msgpack, coordinate via Redis/SQLite/PostgreSQL, etc. >>> >>> Any of those would work, but Fuel is a good way to enable all kinds of >>> objects to be copied from one image to another through a stream. In the >>> case of RemoteTask, all of the results of a remote computation can be put >>> into a single result object (an array or a dictionary or whatever), and >>> that result can be passed back to the parent image by reading the single >>> object. So - fork a copy of the image, have it do some work, and read the >>> result object from a stream. You know you are done when you have read >>> exactly one object. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

Dec. 20, 2015

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