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Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] Re: gtdebugger in pharo 5.0

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 10 Jan 2016, at 21:14, Ferlicot D. Cyril <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Le 08/01/2016 12:07, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : >> Hi, >> >> We are about to integrate in Pharo a new member of the Glamorous >> Toolkit: the GTDebugger. As this is a significant change that might >> affect your workflow, here is some background information to help you >> deal with the change. >> >> First, you should know that the change is not irreversible and it is >> easily possible to disabled the new debugger through a setting. However, >> please do take the time to provide us feedback if something does >> not work out for you. We want to know what can be improved and we try to >> react as fast as we can. >> >> A practical change comes from the fact that the variables are >> manipulated through a GTInspector, which makes it cheaper to maintain in >> the longer run. >> >> While the first thing that will capture the attention is the default >> generic interface, the real power comes from the moldable nature of the >> debugger. Like all other GT tools, GTDebugger is also moldable by >> design. This means that we can construct custom debuggers for specific >> libraries at small costs (often measured in a couple of hundred lines of >> code). >> >> For example, the core configuration includes also the SUnit and the >> bytecode debugger. These are around 150 lines of code. Here is how the >> bytecode debugger looks like: >> >> >> >> You can find more information in an introductory overview blog post that >> also includes some links for further reading: >> http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/gtdebugger-in-pharo/ >> >> Please let us know what you think. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> >> www.feenk.com >> >> "What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?" >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev(a)list.inf.unibe.ch >> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev >> > > Hi, > > An other thing that came in my mind is that, for now, GTDebugger lack > documentation. > Some classes have no documentation and the class with a comment only > have 1 line and don't follow the template. > > It's good that people takes time to add documentation but if the new > classes that Pharo include does not have a proper documentation (class > doc + comments in complex methods) we will never be able to have a > version of Pharo with a good documentation. > > I think that we should not integrate new classes if they don't have a > class comment that follow the template. +100 I can understand that when prototype, hacking, being generally productive inside Pharo, you don't write comments at first. But once you go public, after some iterations, and especially if you want to be integrated into Pharo itself, there is no excuse. We need proper class comments, and comments for the main non-trivial public methods. Sven > -- > Cyril Ferlicot > > http://www.synectique.eu > > 165 Avenue Bretagne > Lille 59000 France > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)list.inf.unibe.ch > https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev

Jan. 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Understanding Spotter?

by stepharo

Ok my last attempt :( When I look for something there are two cases - most of the time I ********************KKKKNNNOOOOOOOWWWWWWW********* is it clear? I know I know I know what I look for and I WANT THE FASTER WAY TO GET IT => no three clicks and strange navigation. I want the sender of this message (not the implementors the sender) I want that package I want the references to this class (not the class and the refs that class) and I'm ready to learn #N for reference #n for senders #m for implementors Because they are the same. #e for example like in the finder - looking around and the system can propose me something and I can navigate and think. But this is ok I just use Spotter to open the class browser and all the rest I do it with shortcuts. I tried to help but I failed. I will present Spotter as the great tool to open browser because I cannot use it otherwise and nobody around me can show me on the spot something more efficient than a shortcut in a workspace. Or may be I will simply not spend energy doing a videos on Spotter because to me this is not ready and far less usable than it is supposed to be. Now to me Spotter is taking a lot of classes for the gain I get. What esteban did or what is in Squeak is working perfectly for me because Spotter does not let me express my needs. So may be you have other needs but I would like to know how people really works and not how Spotter should be usefull. The video of dimitry shows that well: Just browse a class and sometimes you get an implementor May be you do not like my mail because they look aggressive but when is the last time you did a real study with users that were not already convinced. Or may be with users that loves just one tiny feature and not the one you think that they use? And BTW it hangs my images two times with 4.0 when I was in africa and this was annoying. Stef >> I do not get why you cannot >> - have a set of fixed most used queries and this will create a >> small vocabulary that can be extensible >> and it can be mapped to what we do with shortcuts = reduce >> cognitive load >> and then a full search when you do not know what you are searching. >> This is not exclusive and it works for the two scenario. > > I understand the intention, but I do not understand how these fixed > queries are any different than we have now. When you are on the top of > Spotter, when you query, you get always the same processors being > executed. At first you will not know their names, and you will scroll. > And if you see them, you might remember them and reproduce afterwards. > Itâs a discoverable learning process that you do not have to remember. Because with these wonderfull queries I do not get what I'm looking for. Because the system is trying to guess what I have in my mind and this system is not good for that because I'm thinking about the metallica song I'm listening. > The only part that is not discoverable is that # introduces a category > search. Thinking loud, I just thought that we can make the label start > with # like this (I committed this change): Sorry but I do not get it. > > > We also thought of having completion as soon as someone type #. So, > you have a kind of a dropdown for the available categories, but we did > not get to implement that one. This should solve the discoverability > problem even more. What do you think about that? Why not but just a ghost with #n printOn: #m #N .... would be a huge improvement Each time I used Spotter to look for something more than a class I could not find it. > Regarding the shortcuts, we could associated such shortcuts with a > processor, but I would first want to see if we cannot manage to > produce a solution with the current set of options. I was not saying shortcuts and I was thinking the same vocabulary Cmd+N #N Cmd+m #m Cmd+n #n > > >> I was discussing with Luc and he made a fun but sad remark >> "Since people do not understand well spotter they most of the time >> only use it to open a class. >> And this is something that he already had before." >> I briefly looked at the Youtube video of Chloupis and >> So you can have a generic super cool tool, if people do not use it it >> defeats its purpose. > > Certainly. > > >> You can be really happy because you go fast with it but you only. > > That is not really true :). See my remark above. > >> So making sure that the most used actions are really supported is >> important. > > Of course it is. For Senders we did not find a good solution yet that > is reasonably fast and useful. Stefan and I are still literally > working on this. I think we should be able to have a solution, but we > have to see if it is reasonable enough. We will announce it once we > have it working. the problem is that you want to solve everything at once. While the divide and conquer is the solution for the first scenario I mention. I do not need something that crawls the entire system when I have one precise query. > > But, really, this tool more than anything allows one to play with > possibilities in a couple of lines of code. We want people to play > (some did) and to get concrete feedback and possible solutions. I > think we should not just say that we need something else before we > actually play with it a bit more. I do not get it. I never worked with me. And so far I did not see anybody succeeding to show me how to find something that I cannot find faster with a shortcut. >> But more important the discoverability is important because there is >> not even a help. >> Right now as a user I can only guess and often I close spotter and >> use my shortcuts. >> As a user I see something that ask me about network (and I do not >> care) but nothing >> that brings me to the next level. > > This is something we need to work on, but you know, time is limited > for us, too. Add a button and an help text copied from your blog! And you will have made a 100% documentation jump. > > >> Most of the time the user forgets the key combination (may be this >> will be solved with >> the cool shortcut reminder we developed and is under review) > > All actions in spotter have a visible icon. All. And if you hover over > it you get the command. And there are literally 5 such actions. What > is missing in this regard from your point of view? I do not know They do not cover what I want to do. I do not care of setting Most of the time I do not care about seeing all. I saw now that you have an arrow to show more than the top 5 good but again Cmd-shift > is not easy to type and give pain. I do not understand why I should dive in most of the time. I realised that I could use Spotter when I saw that I can press shift under the return because before I got immediate pain when trying with the left shift. To me left shift is a NO WAY. esc (top left) would work but I did not have the time to hack Spotter. > > Doru > > >> Stef >> >> >> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> > www.feenk.com > > "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." >

Jan. 10, 2016

[pharo-project/pharo-core]

by GitHub

Branch: refs/tags/50521 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

Jan. 10, 2016

[pharo-project/pharo-core] 636bf8: 50521

by GitHub

Branch: refs/heads/5.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: 636bf89014ff48637130095f2d7835a0e7bc9079 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/636bf89014ff48637130095f… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2016-01-10 (Sun, 10 Jan 2016) Changed paths: A Morphic-Base.package/MenuItemMorph.class/instance/counting/countingMenu.st A Morphic-Base.package/MenuItemMorph.class/instance/events/insistMenu.st M Morphic-Base.package/MenuItemMorph.class/instance/events/invokeWithEvent_.st A Morphic-Base.package/MenuItemMorph.class/instance/meta actions/deselectItem.st R Morphic-Base.package/MenuItemMorph.class/instance/nil/deselectItem.st R Morphic-Base.package/MenuItemMorph.class/instance/nil/isEnabled_.st A Morphic-Base.package/MenuItemMorph.class/instance/testing/isEnabled_.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/README.md A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/class/counting/countingMenu.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/class/initialize/initialize.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/class/instance creation/with_.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/class/settings/enableShortcutReminder.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/class/settings/enableShortcutReminder_.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/class/settings/settingsOn_.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/class/settings/timesShortcutReminder.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/class/settings/timesShortcutReminder_.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/class/startup list/startUp_.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/definition.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/instance/accessing/alpha.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/instance/accessing/text_.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/instance/counting/countingMenu.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/instance/initialize/initialize.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/instance/stepping/alpha_.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/instance/stepping/resetAlpha.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/instance/stepping/step.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/instance/stepping/stepTime.st A Morphic-Base.package/ShortcutReminderMorph.class/instance/stepping/wantsSteps.st M Morphic-Base.package/ToggleMenuItemMorph.class/instance/drawing-private/drawKeyTextOn_.st A Morphic-Base.package/ToggleMenuItemMorph.class/instance/drawing-private/itemShortcut.st M Morphic-Base.package/ToggleMenuItemShortcutWithSymbol.class/instance/drawing/drawOn_.st A Morphic-Base.package/ToggleMenuItemShortcutWithSymbol.class/instance/drawing/text.st A Morphic-Base.package/ToggleMenuItemShortcutWithText.class/instance/accessing/text.st R ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script50520.st A ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script50521.st R ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update50520.st A ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update50521.st M ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st Log Message: ----------- 50521 17348 Enhance shortcut learnability https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17348 http://files.pharo.org/image/50/50521.zip

Jan. 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Just that you know that we are not happy

by stepharo

> Stack top is really usefull because it contains the result of last > expression evaluation. > Since we took the habit of composing message sends without decomposing > into temporary variables, it avoid selecting sub-expression and > re-evaluating subparts, or entering into each message to gain finer > understanding... ah ok I see. Now the name is not really good > > For thisContext, I don't really see the interest, but maybe someone > will find a use case... > > 2016-01-10 18:55 GMT+01:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr > <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>>: > > > I use both thisContext and stackTop regularly. thisContext > maybe once a wee, stackTop probably multiple times a day. > > So explain to me how? > > Stef > >

Jan. 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [ann] gtdebugger in pharo 5.0

by Johan Fabry

It looks much better to me, yes. I would need to use it some time before I could give more detailed feedback. (And I canât really do that until the FFI is fixed, because all my development crashes the VM since I am using Roassal. So I am still on the last Pharo version before the VM switch.) One last thing is that I am not convinced on having the âproceedâ, âstep intoâ, âstep overâ et cetera buttons on the stack pane. To me they are more related to the source code pane, as you always see the results of pressing those buttons there, but on the stack not always, e.g. the âstep overâ actions. > On Jan 9, 2016, at 19:06, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Thanks. What do you think of the new solution? Is it sufficient? > > Doru > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Jan. 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Just that you know that we are not happy

by Max Leske

> On 10 Jan 2016, at 19:01, Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Stack top is really usefull because it contains the result of last expression evaluation. > Since we took the habit of composing message sends without decomposing into temporary variables, it avoid selecting sub-expression and re-evaluating subparts, or entering into each message to gain finer understanding... > > For thisContext, I don't really see the interest, but maybe someone will find a use caseâ¦ thisContext is useful if you want to inspect the sender chain yourself e.g. when developing tools like the debugger *with* the debugger. Cheers, Max > > 2016-01-10 18:55 GMT+01:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>>: > > I use both thisContext and stackTop regularly. thisContext maybe once a wee, stackTop probably multiple times a day. > > So explain to me how? > > Stef > >

Jan. 10, 2016

[pharo-project/pharo-core]

by GitHub

Branch: refs/tags/50520 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

Jan. 10, 2016

[pharo-project/pharo-core] 974630: 50520

by GitHub

Branch: refs/heads/5.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: 974630dc178b6b59156dac23623fe2dc9f98446c https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/974630dc178b6b59156dac23… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2016-01-10 (Sun, 10 Jan 2016) Changed paths: A Morphic-Base.package/LayoutFrame.class/class/costly instance creation/fractions_.st A Morphic-Base.package/LayoutFrame.class/class/costly instance creation/fractions_offsets_.st A Morphic-Base.package/LayoutFrame.class/class/costly instance creation/offsets_.st R Morphic-Base.package/LayoutFrame.class/class/instance creation/fractions_.st R Morphic-Base.package/LayoutFrame.class/class/instance creation/fractions_offsets_.st R Morphic-Base.package/LayoutFrame.class/class/instance creation/offsets_.st M Morphic-Base.package/LayoutFrame.class/instance/accessing/bottomFraction.st A Morphic-Base.package/LayoutFrame.class/instance/comparing/=.st A Morphic-Base.package/LayoutFrame.class/instance/comparing/hash.st A Morphic-Tests.package/LayoutFrameTest.class/instance/tests - conversion/testIdentity.st M Morphic-Tests.package/PaginatedMorphTreeMorphTests.class/instance/tests/testPager.st M Morphic-Widgets-Tree.package/PaginatedMorphTreeModel.class/class/examples/example.st R ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script50519.st A ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script50520.st R ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update50519.st A ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update50520.st M ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st Log Message: ----------- 50520 17361 Better LayoutFrame class comments and class method comments are needed https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17361 17363 (LayoutFrame fractions: (0 @ 0 corner: 1 @ 1)) = LayoutFrame identity should be true and it is not. https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17363 17364 PaginateMorph uses Wrong LayoutFrame API https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17364 http://files.pharo.org/image/50/50520.zip

Jan. 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Just that you know that we are not happy

by Nicolas Cellier

Stack top is really usefull because it contains the result of last expression evaluation. Since we took the habit of composing message sends without decomposing into temporary variables, it avoid selecting sub-expression and re-evaluating subparts, or entering into each message to gain finer understanding... For thisContext, I don't really see the interest, but maybe someone will find a use case... 2016-01-10 18:55 GMT+01:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > > I use both thisContext and stackTop regularly. thisContext maybe once a >> wee, stackTop probably multiple times a day. >> >> So explain to me how? > > Stef > >

Jan. 10, 2016