- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] another spotter question

by Tudor Girba

Hi, > On Jan 19, 2016, at 6:11 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > Ok I want to find all the implementors that contain the word time. > I type time and I see #implementors as shown in the attachement. > How do I get the full list of such methods? > > I have the impression that I will have to retype the query with #implementors. > Now I do not get why I cannot click on the label #implementors > > it feels like behind a glass and getting frustrated. Hmm. Thanks for describing this way of working. Here is the thing. We observed users working with this, and they all used predominantly the keyboard. So, we favored keyboard use. This is not an argument for anything, and it does not mean that that is the best design, I am just telling you how we designed it. Things can change, and this is why it is important to understand how people tend to use the UI. So, every (and only) selection has actions. In your example, the #Menu category has a right arrow next to it. If you click on that you âDive in categoryâ. That means that if you want to dive in #Implementors, you navigate there, and then you get the option of diving in. We consciously chose to not show all actions all the time because that would have led to an overcrowded UI with too many things to choose from. Right now, you have 5 main things to click on and that is it. Now, hearing your scenario, it seems to make sense to make the category clickable as well and make it dive in that category. We will look at it (or maybe someone else does it beforehand :)). Thanks. Does this make more sense now? Doru > Stef > > > > <icfedjib..png> -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "When people care, great things can happen."

Jan. 19, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] spotter: top search for senders and references

by stepharo

> > Essentially, #Selectors behaves like completion and it allows you to > discover new selectors. Whatâs more, if you trigger the action (Enter) > on a selector, you get the implementors browser for this selector. > > Does this make sense? Not really. It looks really complex to remember. To me selectors is part of implementors. I find it confusing. How do you get the right pane opened? Because I cannot get it. I clieck on the check or the arrow but it does not open. Again another discoverability problem. I think that my remarks about how to learn spotter still stands. Yes I can read your blog and may be remember everything but this is the way UI works. Stef

Jan. 19, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] spotter: top search for senders and references

by Esteban Lorenzano

It has to be the oposite: #implementors should show what people understand until now (a list of implementors) #methods should show the actual methods (as now does #implementors) why complicate things if we can do it in a way that satisfaces everybody? Esteban > On 19 Jan 2016, at 18:07, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi, > >> On Jan 19, 2016, at 5:52 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: >> >> Doru >> >> on the blog you mention selectors but I'm confused, I thought that methods were implementors. >> So what is selectors? I checked and they are methods too. > > So, the difference is as follows. > > #Implementors lists actual methods. For example, if I search for do:, I will get multiple methods implementing do:. Also, when you preview, you get directly the source code of the method. If you trigger the action (Enter) you get the code browser opened on the method. > > <a GTSpotterMorph(804686592)2016-01-19T18-00-41-751893+01-00.png> > > #Selectors, will show only one occurrence of do:, and when you preview it, you see the list of implementors. > > <a GTSpotterMorph(804686592)2016-01-19T18-00-47-165509+01-00.png> > > Essentially, #Selectors behaves like completion and it allows you to discover new selectors. Whatâs more, if you trigger the action (Enter) on a selector, you get the implementors browser for this selector. > > Does this make sense? > > Cheers, > Doru > > >> Stef >> >> Just for the record, there are parts the world where you have to use your GSM to browse the web. >> Even in France there are parts of the world where you cannot access to Youtube videos. >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> With the latest GT integration, we also integrated the search for senders and references from the first step. >>> >>> Here is a detailed explanation about it, including what we still want to do, how itâs done, and how to discover what else is around: >>> http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/spotting-senders-references-with-gtsp… <http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/spotting-senders-references-with-gtsp…> >>> >>> <Mail Attachment.png> >>> >>> Please let us know what you think. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> www.feenk.com >>> >>> "Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding." >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> > www.feenk.com <http://www.feenk.com/> > > "When people care, great things can happen."

Jan. 19, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] spotter: top search for senders and references

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 19 Jan 2016, at 18:08, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > 2016-01-19 13:34 GMT-03:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: >> >> cool >> now could we have an help menu that describes the key elements. >> People cannot discover that by themselves. A menu item is cheap. > > The thing with the hybrid things is that if it is not self > discoverable as in a menu item it can't be described by a --help flag > like in a traditional command line. we need a cheat sheet, otherwise, is arcane knowledge, reserved for the oracle. > > Regards! > > > Esteban A. Maringolo >

Jan. 19, 2016

another spotter question

by stepharo

Ok I want to find all the implementors that contain the word time. I type time and I see #implementors as shown in the attachement. How do I get the full list of such methods? I have the impression that I will have to retype the query with #implementors. Now I do not get why I cannot click on the label #implementors it feels like behind a glass and getting frustrated. Stef

Jan. 19, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo bootstrap

by Tudor Girba

This is amazing news! For those that might be less involved in this, the minimal image is a long term goal that is essentially in the works since the beginning of Pharo. It accumulated a ton of effort from multiple people (I did not participate, but I have an idea of the amount of effort and it really is huge and tedious), and now we see the first palpable result. This is one of those things that have almost no visible output, but will turn out to have a tremendous impact. I would like to thank everyone involved! Please do keep this up. Even if it might look less rewarding, you should know that this work is greatly appreciated. Cheers, Doru > On Jan 19, 2016, at 3:29 PM, Christophe Demarey <christophe.demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Hi all, > > In case you do not know, we work on bootstrapping Pharo, i.e. create a Pharo image from sources, not based on a previous image (well, we use a pharo image to produce it but no code / state from it). > > This process will allow to define a minimal Pharo kernel (currently 52 packages but we could have it far smaller) and to modularize the whole image (currently packages have too much dependencies on packages already loaded into the image). > The bootstrap process also allows to write down the recipe to initialize a new image from scratch (some code is missing in the image or is wrong). In addition, I think we will clean a lot of historical objects that are not used anymore. > > With the amazing work done by Guillermo Polito during his Phd (around Espell, Oz): https://guillep.github.io/files/publications/Poli15Thesis.pdf, we succeeded to get a first prototype of a bootstraped Pharo 5 image (from 5.392). > This prototype is able to run an eval command line handler and to log output / errors. Not all classes are yet initialized and you cannot yet save / restart this image but it is a big step forward. > It is a 4 mb image (could be half the size without unicode data). You can download it at: http://chercheurs.lille.inria.fr/~demarey/pmwiki/pub/pharo-bootstrap/pharo-…. > > Next steps are to have a bootstrapped image fully working, then to load packages on top of it (like network, sunit) to produce a minimal image. > Then, we need to implement an Oz VM on top of Spur. > After that, we need to work on a reliable way to build the bootstrap (not too sensitive to changes in the image). > > Christophe. > > ------- > demarey@193-51-236-143:~/dev/rmod/bootstrap/bootstrap-2016-01-19$ ../pharo bootstrap.image --no-default-preferences eval "1 + 1" > 2 > demarey@193-51-236-143:~/dev/rmod/bootstrap/bootstrap-2016-01-19$ ../pharo bootstrap.image --no-default-preferences eval "'a' , 'b'" > 'ab' > demarey@193-51-236-143:~/dev/rmod/bootstrap/bootstrap-2016-01-19$ ../pharo bootstrap.image --no-default-preferences eval "1 / 0" > ZeroDivide > SmallInteger>>/ > UndefinedObject>>DoIt > OpalCompiler>>evaluate > OpalCompiler(AbstractCompiler)>>evaluate: > SmalltalkImage>>evaluate: > > EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) > no source in EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>evaluate: in Block: no source > BlockClosure>>on:do: > EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>evaluate: > EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>evaluateArguments > EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>activate > EvaluateCommandLineHandler class(CommandLineHandler class)>>activateWith: > > BasicCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) > no source in PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>activateSubCommand: in Block: no source > BlockClosure>>on:do: > PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>activateSubCommand: > PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>handleSubcommand > PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>handleArgument: > > BasicCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) > no source in PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>activate in Block: no source > BlockClosure>>on:do: > PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>activate > PharoCommandLineHandler>>activate > PharoCommandLineHandler class(CommandLineHandler class)>>activateWith: > > PharoCommandLineHandler class>>no (source is Undeclared) > no source in PharoCommandLineHandler class>>activateWith: in Block: no source > NonInteractiveUIManager(UIManager)>>defer: > PharoCommandLineHandler class>>activateWith: > no source in BasicCommandLineHandler>>activateSubCommand: in Block: no source > BlockClosure>>on:do: > BasicCommandLineHandler>>activateSubCommand: > BasicCommandLineHandler>>handleSubcommand > BasicCommandLineHandler>>handleArgument: > no source in BasicCommandLineHandler>>activate in Block: no source > > SmallInteger>>no (source is Undeclared) > > UndefinedObject>>no (source is Undeclared) > > AbstractCompiler>>no (source is Undeclared) > > SmalltalkImage>>no (source is Undeclared) > > BlockClosure>>no (source is Undeclared) > > EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) > > EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) > > CommandLineHandler class>>no (source is Undeclared) > > BasicCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) > > BasicCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) > > PharoCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) > > UIManager>>no (source is Undeclared) > > UndefinedObject>>no (source is Undeclared) > > CommandLineUIManager>>no (source is Undeclared) > > SmalltalkImage>>no (source is Undeclared) > > DelayMicrosecondScheduler>>no (source is Undeclared) > > BlockClosure>>no (source is Undeclared) > > SmalltalkImage>>no (source is Undeclared) > > WeakArray class>>no (source is Undeclared) > > > ps: source cannot be displayed because there is no formatter available in the bootstrap > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "It's not what we do that matters most, it's how we do it."

Jan. 19, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] spotter: top search for senders and references

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2016-01-19 13:34 GMT-03:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > > cool > now could we have an help menu that describes the key elements. > People cannot discover that by themselves. A menu item is cheap. The thing with the hybrid things is that if it is not self discoverable as in a menu item it can't be described by a --help flag like in a traditional command line. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo

Jan. 19, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] spotter: top search for senders and references

by Tudor Girba

Hi, > On Jan 19, 2016, at 5:52 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > Doru > > on the blog you mention selectors but I'm confused, I thought that methods were implementors. > So what is selectors? I checked and they are methods too. So, the difference is as follows. #Implementors lists actual methods. For example, if I search for do:, I will get multiple methods implementing do:. Also, when you preview, you get directly the source code of the method. If you trigger the action (Enter) you get the code browser opened on the method. #Selectors, will show only one occurrence of do:, and when you preview it, you see the list of implementors. Essentially, #Selectors behaves like completion and it allows you to discover new selectors. Whatâs more, if you trigger the action (Enter) on a selector, you get the implementors browser for this selector. Does this make sense? Cheers, Doru > Stef > > Just for the record, there are parts the world where you have to use your GSM to browse the web. > Even in France there are parts of the world where you cannot access to Youtube videos. > >> Hi, >> >> With the latest GT integration, we also integrated the search for senders and references from the first step. >> >> Here is a detailed explanation about it, including what we still want to do, how itâs done, and how to discover what else is around: >> http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/spotting-senders-references-with-gtsp… >> >> <Mail Attachment.png> >> >> Please let us know what you think. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> www.feenk.com >> >> "Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding." > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "When people care, great things can happen."

Jan. 19, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] spotter: top search for senders and references

by stepharo

Doru on the blog you mention selectors but I'm confused, I thought that methods were implementors. So what is selectors? I checked and they are methods too. Stef Just for the record, there are parts the world where you have to use your GSM to browse the web. Even in France there are parts of the world where you cannot access to Youtube videos. > Hi, > > With the latest GT integration, we also integrated the search for > senders and references from the first step. > > Here is a detailed explanation about it, including what we still want > to do, how itâs done, and how to discover what else is around: > http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/spotting-senders-references-with-gtsp… > > > Please let us know what you think. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> > www.feenk.com > > "Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of > problem understanding."

Jan. 19, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo bootstrap

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 19 Jan 2016, at 15:53, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Awesome!! Great work guys! + 10 >> On 19 Jan 2016, at 15:29, Christophe Demarey <christophe.demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> In case you do not know, we work on bootstrapping Pharo, i.e. create a Pharo image from sources, not based on a previous image (well, we use a pharo image to produce it but no code / state from it). >> >> This process will allow to define a minimal Pharo kernel (currently 52 packages but we could have it far smaller) and to modularize the whole image (currently packages have too much dependencies on packages already loaded into the image). >> The bootstrap process also allows to write down the recipe to initialize a new image from scratch (some code is missing in the image or is wrong). In addition, I think we will clean a lot of historical objects that are not used anymore. >> >> With the amazing work done by Guillermo Polito during his Phd (around Espell, Oz): https://guillep.github.io/files/publications/Poli15Thesis.pdf, we succeeded to get a first prototype of a bootstraped Pharo 5 image (from 5.392). >> This prototype is able to run an eval command line handler and to log output / errors. Not all classes are yet initialized and you cannot yet save / restart this image but it is a big step forward. >> It is a 4 mb image (could be half the size without unicode data). You can download it at: http://chercheurs.lille.inria.fr/~demarey/pmwiki/pub/pharo-bootstrap/pharo-…. >> >> Next steps are to have a bootstrapped image fully working, then to load packages on top of it (like network, sunit) to produce a minimal image. >> Then, we need to implement an Oz VM on top of Spur. >> After that, we need to work on a reliable way to build the bootstrap (not too sensitive to changes in the image). >> >> Christophe. >> >> ------- >> demarey@193-51-236-143:~/dev/rmod/bootstrap/bootstrap-2016-01-19$ ../pharo bootstrap.image --no-default-preferences eval "1 + 1" >> 2 >> demarey@193-51-236-143:~/dev/rmod/bootstrap/bootstrap-2016-01-19$ ../pharo bootstrap.image --no-default-preferences eval "'a' , 'b'" >> 'ab' >> demarey@193-51-236-143:~/dev/rmod/bootstrap/bootstrap-2016-01-19$ ../pharo bootstrap.image --no-default-preferences eval "1 / 0" >> ZeroDivide >> SmallInteger>>/ >> UndefinedObject>>DoIt >> OpalCompiler>>evaluate >> OpalCompiler(AbstractCompiler)>>evaluate: >> SmalltalkImage>>evaluate: >> >> EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) >> no source in EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>evaluate: in Block: no source >> BlockClosure>>on:do: >> EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>evaluate: >> EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>evaluateArguments >> EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>activate >> EvaluateCommandLineHandler class(CommandLineHandler class)>>activateWith: >> >> BasicCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) >> no source in PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>activateSubCommand: in Block: no source >> BlockClosure>>on:do: >> PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>activateSubCommand: >> PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>handleSubcommand >> PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>handleArgument: >> >> BasicCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) >> no source in PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>activate in Block: no source >> BlockClosure>>on:do: >> PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>activate >> PharoCommandLineHandler>>activate >> PharoCommandLineHandler class(CommandLineHandler class)>>activateWith: >> >> PharoCommandLineHandler class>>no (source is Undeclared) >> no source in PharoCommandLineHandler class>>activateWith: in Block: no source >> NonInteractiveUIManager(UIManager)>>defer: >> PharoCommandLineHandler class>>activateWith: >> no source in BasicCommandLineHandler>>activateSubCommand: in Block: no source >> BlockClosure>>on:do: >> BasicCommandLineHandler>>activateSubCommand: >> BasicCommandLineHandler>>handleSubcommand >> BasicCommandLineHandler>>handleArgument: >> no source in BasicCommandLineHandler>>activate in Block: no source >> >> SmallInteger>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> UndefinedObject>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> AbstractCompiler>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> SmalltalkImage>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> BlockClosure>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> CommandLineHandler class>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> BasicCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> BasicCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> PharoCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> UIManager>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> UndefinedObject>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> CommandLineUIManager>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> SmalltalkImage>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> DelayMicrosecondScheduler>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> BlockClosure>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> SmalltalkImage>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> WeakArray class>>no (source is Undeclared) >> >> >> ps: source cannot be displayed because there is no formatter available in the bootstrap >> >

Jan. 19, 2016