- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo bootstrap

by stepharo

> This is a much more complex and challenging subject that you might think. > > There has been a lot of work done on this for many years, many approaches have been tried. > > I am pretty sure that the people behind the Pharo Bootstrap project are aware of the existing literature. oh yes and even of things that were not written in papers. :)

Jan. 21, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] Smalltalk website tricks

by stepharo

Please guys use the Pharo-user mailing-list. Le 21/1/16 19:39, Dimitris Chloupis a Ã©crit : > Does not render well on my iPad and has problems with multi touch, > looks cool though :) > On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 at 19:19, Craig Latta <craig(a)netjam.org > <mailto:craig@netjam.org>> wrote: > > > Hi-- > > I wrote a new website for Black Page Digital, my consultancy in > Amsterdam and San Francisco. It includes SqueakJS running in a 3D CSS > viewport, kinda cute. Please check it out, pass it on, and let me know > what you think! > > > http://thiscontext.com/2016/01/21/new-website-for-black-page-digital > > > thanks, > > -C > > -- > Craig Latta > Black Page Digital > postbus 10784 > 1001ET Amsterdam, Netherlands > craig(a)blackpagedigital.com <mailto:craig@blackpagedigital.com> > +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) > + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS) > > >

Jan. 21, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] re: Smalltalk website tricks

by Dimitris Chloupis

It first told me close other tabs for it to load a database which was weird I double clicked and then the interface turned 3D sidewise and i could not bring straight , also it shadow created a mouse pointer that was offset to my touch event. Touching was bringing a world menu and there was also a workspace mixed with the images On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 at 21:31, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > It first told me close other tabs for it to load a database which was weird > > I double clicked and then the interface turned 3D sidewise and i could not > bring straight , also it shadow created a mouse pointer that was offset to > my touch event. Touching was bringing a world menu and there was also a > workspace mixed with the images > On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 at 20:45, Craig Latta <craig(a)netjam.org> wrote: > >> >> > Does not render well on my iPad and has problems with multi touch. >> >> Hm, it should be ignoring multi-touch gestures. What happens? And >> what rendering problems does it have? I haven't done any >> browser-specific optimizations yet. >> >> >> thanks! >> >> -C >> >> -- >> Craig Latta >> netjam.org >> +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) >> + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS) >> >> >>

Jan. 21, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] re: Smalltalk website tricks

by Dimitris Chloupis

It first told me close other tabs for it to load a database which was weird I double clicked and then the interface turned 3D sidewise and i could not bring straight , also it shadow created a mouse pointer that was offset to my touch event. Touching was bringing a world menu and there was also a workspace mixed with the images On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 at 20:45, Craig Latta <craig(a)netjam.org> wrote: > > > Does not render well on my iPad and has problems with multi touch. > > Hm, it should be ignoring multi-touch gestures. What happens? And > what rendering problems does it have? I haven't done any > browser-specific optimizations yet. > > > thanks! > > -C > > -- > Craig Latta > netjam.org > +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) > + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS) > > >

Jan. 21, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo bootstrap

by Craig Latta

Hi Guille-- > The point is that âcleaning the imageâ is not reproducible. A cleanup > script may work with todayâs image but may not work with tomorrowâs. I consider this sort of cleaning something that gets done once per preexisting Smalltalk implementation (Pharo, VisualWorks, etc.). After it's done, I would build every release artifact up from the identified essentials (minimal object memory). You need a good module system for that, and I think one based on live remote messaging instead of source code stored in files would be best (easiest to build and use, and most accurate). With the knowledge of those essentials, I would create new Smalltalk implementations from a system tracer informed by them. Cleaning isn't something I would expect to do routinely as an app developer. It's primarily a research activity. > [Cleaning] does not scale when it starts to become circular. For > example, you want to refactor a part of morphic => but you are use > morphic while the refactor is performed. We do that all the time, but > at the cost of splitting and staging changes that require to be > atomic, which adds more complexity to the process. Of course, this is another argument for using remote tools. > ...I wrote a prototype of Espell that manipulated an image loaded in > the simulator. The result is that you had a high-level API provided > by mirrors to manipulate an image without requiring a VM change. I think that's definitely something you want to be able to do, since there are some changes that can only be made when time is stopped for the target image. And the simulator is simply the most pleasant tool for it. The implementation of this that I did was especially useful for making complimentary documentation, like the directed-graph movies at [1]. True, the simulator is slow, and making movie frames with it is glacial. :) We should never be afraid to change the virtual machine, though, in the absence of any other constraint. :) > A distributed object memory forces you to include in every peer that > may receive code a distribution layer (at least sockets, class > builder, compiler or serializer + dependencies). And we wanted to go > further. We wanted to be able to easily manipulate an image that does > not have those features. Right, I use the simulator stuff when I care about leaving those things out (e.g. [2]). But all of the systems I actually want to deploy do have those things, to the point that I do consider them to be as fundamental as anything else. And they don't include the class builder or compiler; the remote messaging protocol I wrote gets by with just sockets, a few collection classes, and the reflection primitives that the virtual machine needs anyway. There is never a need to compile source code. > The main point was to use the same infrastructure to build an image > in an explicit manner (the bootstrap) as well as in an implicit > on-demand manner (tornado). And I believe that the bootstrap is a > more transparent process where we can control what happens. It seems to me that push imprinting, where methods are transferred from one system to another as a side-effect of running them, is just as transparent and controllable, and gives you tools that you want anyway for other purposes. thanks, -C [1] http://netjam.org/context/viz [2] http://netjam.org/context/smallest -- Craig Latta netjam.org +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)

Jan. 21, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] Smalltalk website tricks

by Dimitris Chloupis

Does not render well on my iPad and has problems with multi touch, looks cool though :) On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 at 19:19, Craig Latta <craig(a)netjam.org> wrote: > > Hi-- > > I wrote a new website for Black Page Digital, my consultancy in > Amsterdam and San Francisco. It includes SqueakJS running in a 3D CSS > viewport, kinda cute. Please check it out, pass it on, and let me know > what you think! > > > http://thiscontext.com/2016/01/21/new-website-for-black-page-digital > > > thanks, > > -C > > -- > Craig Latta > Black Page Digital > postbus 10784 > 1001ET Amsterdam, Netherlands > craig(a)blackpagedigital.com > +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) > + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS) > > > >

Jan. 21, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo bootstrap

by Craig Latta

Hi Phil-- > ...prior art is not running on my environment. So, it is irrelevant > for my current activities. You weren't talking about your current activities before, you were talking about some allegedly innovative capability. At any rate, I do have versions of Context for Pharo and other Smalltalks, which I intend to release this year. I wanted to deal with SqueakJS after Squeak, then Pharo, then VisualWorks, etc. -C -- Craig Latta netjam.org +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)

Jan. 21, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo on Bountysource Salt

by Esteban A. Maringolo

I just became a Gold Supporter of the team and helped it reach its $100 minimum salt. I think if we promote it enough, we can get much much more than that. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo 2016-01-21 6:45 GMT-03:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: > Hi, > > We have set up a Pharo on the new Salt platform of bountysource: > > > https://salt.bountysource.com/teams/pharo > > This is an easy way to support pharo development. If you support > above a certain threshold, being a Salt supporter includes a > membership for the Pharo Association. > > > Marcus >

Jan. 21, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] GitHub API Bindings: new version

by Skip Lentz

Hi Thierry, I pushed a commit which provides GitHub class>>initializeAnonymously, so if you load from the master branch it should be there. I updated the first chapter of the docs too: https://balletie.github.io/GitHub/html-chap/index.html <https://balletie.github.io/GitHub/html-chap/index.html> > On Jan 21, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > 2016-01-21 13:49 GMT+01:00 Skip Lentz <skip.lentz(a)inria.fr <mailto:skip.lentz@inria.fr>>: > Hi Thierry, > > Good question, and yes it is possible. > Itâs good that you raise this point, I will add a class side instance creation method for this to the GitHub class. > What is nice is that this lowers the barrier for people to try the bindings out. > > I was thing of being able to use it as a Metacello-based code delivery conduit, especially since if I combine that with GitFileTree loading from a zip approach, then it could become an all-in-memory approach (no git installation, no external filetree) > > Do note that you are rate-limited to 60 requests _per hour_ if you donât authenticate. So itâs not much. > > I'll keep that in mind if it takes many requests to get the full history. > > If you use some functionality which requires authentication (for example requesting the logged in user), > you will get a GHBadCredentialsError with a message âRequires authenticationâ. Makes sense to me. > > Yes, this would be perfect. > > Thanks! > > Thierry > > > Skip >> On Jan 21, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Hi Skip, >> >> this is great; I think you have something important there, and I'm just sad to have far too much to do to contribute... I'd just have a question then: is it possible to use it in anonymous mode? I would like to explore if it could be used as a way to get delivery mode (read-only access) to packages with history/versionning (reusing GitFileTree `build MC metadata from git log` code). >> >> Regards, >> >> Thierry >> >> 2016-01-21 11:30 GMT+01:00 Skip Lentz <skip.lentz(a)inria.fr <mailto:skip.lentz@inria.fr>>: >> Hi everyone, >> >> I am announcing a new version for the API bindings to GitHub in Pharo. >> For documentation and information on how to load it, see the new project homepage: >> >> https://balletie.github.io/GitHub/ <https://balletie.github.io/GitHub/> (generated with Pillar. Plug for Damien and Cyril) >> >> For a list of changes in this release, follow this link: https://github.com/Balletie/GitHub/releases/tag/v0.5 <https://github.com/Balletie/GitHub/releases/tag/v0.5> >> >> To load absolutely everything, including the tests and the tool, evaluate: >> >> Metacello new >> baseline: 'GitHub'; >> repository: 'github://Balletie/GitHub:master' <>; >> load: #(tests tool) >> >> If you have loaded the tool, it can be opened via the world menu, under âToolsâ. >> >> Feedback welcome :) >> > >

Jan. 21, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo bootstrap

by phil＠highoctane.be

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 10:33 AM, Christophe Demarey < Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Le 20 janv. 2016 Ã 20:09, Craig Latta a Ã©crit : > > > Hi all-- > > Phil writes: > > The point is not to clean but to start with an empty object engine and > > fill it in with the minimum required core. Currently, the image is > > the result of an evolutionary process and rebuilding it from zero was > > not possible. > > > Another approach is to modify the virtual machine so that it marks > methods as they are run, and modify the garbage collector to reclaim > methods that haven't been run. Then you can create systems that consist > of only what is necessary to run unit tests, effectively imprinting the > unit tests. You can interact with the target system from completely > independent one over a remote messaging network connection, so your unit > tests need not include graphics support, etc.[1] This seems much simpler > to me than making a virtual machine that can run multiple object > memories, and distributed object memories have several other important > uses too. > > > > Guillermo also implemented this kind of approach with Tornado. > "Tornado, a technique to dynamically tailor applications to only embed > code (classes and methods) they use. Tornado uses a run-fail-grow approach > to prepare an application for deployment. It launches minimal version of an > application and installs a minimal set of statements that will start the > user's application. This ap- plication is run and these statements are > executed. When the application fails because there are classes or methods > missing, the necessary code is installed. > *Extended results of Tornado: A Run-Fail-Grow approach for Dynamic > Application Tayloring (PDF Download Available)*. Available from: > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/278629977_Extended_results_of_Torn… > [accessed Jan 21, 2016]." > > But is not so easy ... > > > This makes it possible to audit the whole build process, create > > different base image for various purposes (very small, headless with > > no UI objects at all, using the object engine in a completely > > different way that is used today). > > > That makes the image the result of a fully reproducible process, from > > a file of zero bytes, to a file with a working image. > > > You can do all of these things with imprinted unit tests as well. > > Also, this allows to experiment with new low level mechanisms. This is > > currently not possible since it makes us like performing surgery on > > our own brain. > > > With remote messaging, which has been around for many years, you > can perform this surgery from afar. > > Not available in my Pharo environment. Which is what I use and care about. > > Also, the Oz-inspired system will help in exploring other image > > memories (small or large) and manipulate them as entities. At this > > point, this is also not common pratice. > > > This has been common practice since the introduction of the virtual > machine simulator in 1996. The remote facilities I mentioned all work > under simulation, too. > > Simulator not working under Pharo currently. Same issue. > > There's a lot of prior art here. > > Sure, but prior art is not running on my environment. So, it is irrelevant for my current activities. Phil > > -C > > [1] http://netjam.org/context > > -- > Craig Latta > netjam.org > +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) > + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS) > > > >

Jan. 21, 2016