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Re: [Pharo-dev] a request to change the meaning of <example> pragma

by Tudor Girba

Hi, I would prefer if this thread does not transform in a terminology debate too much. Example is a term that fits both the code and the returning object. <gtExample> is applied on a method and it primarily describes that method. The term âexampleâ also describes the meta object that is wraps the concrete return value with the information from the method (for example, the label of the example, the link to the subject, or the dependencies to other examples). The example term is also important from the metaphor point of view: "we learn from examplesâ. Cheers, Doru > On Dec 19, 2016, at 3:34 AM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 5:49 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> As you might know, a while ago we created GTExamples, a framework that supports both example-based live documentation and testing: >> http://gtoolkit.org/doc/Examples/examples.html >> >> GTExamples was part of the GTInspector for a while, but as it evolved, we pulled it out in a separate project. This separate project is not in Pharo anymore but it is part of the full GToolkit configuration (Pharo only ships the core of GToolkit). The idea of taking GTExamples out was to allow the community to have a more elaborate discussion about the role of examples in our environment. >> >> I have invited you to join that conversation, but it did not take off. I understand that perhaps the topic does not look appealing at this moment. >> >> We will certainly continue to evolve GTExamples both on the semantics level of the dependency constructs and on the integration with tools. Our goal is to enable a new practice that I would like to call Example-Guilded Development (or Example-Driven Development), and position Pharo to be the only platform on which someone can do that. But, that is our goal, and does not have to be the same with other peopleâs goal. >> >> Right now, GTExamples relies on the <gtExample> pragma to denote a method that returns an object that exemplifies something. > > > I've previously not done a good job of promoting the use of <sample> > for this. I'll try spinning this wheel once more. > > There are two concepts to consider: > * The returned object. > * The method code that creates the returned object. > > The "returned object" is best considered a <sample>. > The "method code" is best considered an <example> that produces the sample. > http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-example-and-vs-sample/ > > The term "exemplifies/exemplification" associates equally with both... > * http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/example > * http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/sample > but for example... from a draw full of cutlery you don't "take an > example spoon", you "take a sample spoon". > > > So it depends on where you want the focus to be. > * If the focus is on working with a sample object, then <sample> makes > a better pragma for the method creating it. > * If the focus is on the code producing the sample, then <example> is > a better choice. > > Maybe you are constrained by existing industry terminology, > but "Example-Driven Development" might be equally called > "Sample-Driven Development". > Without having read into the topic, intuitively the former broadly > encompasses copying static code > while the latter feels more limited to working with an object. > > > My proposal... > * <sample> provides a narrower sense of side-effect-free provision of > object to work with. "Samples are often tangible parts and can be > observed" > * <example> provides a broader sense of showing how things work > together, in ways that may or may-not include side effects that you > don't actually want to execute - just to refer to. "Examples are used > [to] illustrate something. [Its] expected that the example will be > imitated and replicated among its audience." > * <script> provides a sense of system management, of methods causing > significant side effects. You won't want to copy these methods, just > make use them. > > <sampleScript> feels awkward to apply to examples, since by my these > are neither samples nor scripts. > > > cheers -ben > > >> Executing this method as an example should have no side-effects (either because the method itself does not have a side-effect, or because the example method defines how the cleanup should happen using the mechanism provided by GTExamples). >> >> This meaning is different from the meaning of the <example> pragma used through Pharo. There are currently 55 places that use this pragma inside Pharo and most of them come from FastTable. As things will progress and more libraries might use GTExamples, the situation can become confusing. >> >> To make things less confusing in the future, I would like to define the meaning of the <example> to denote a method that returns an object without having side effects. Would you agree with this? >> >> If yes, I would suggest the name of the new pragma that would replace the existing one to include âscriptâ in the name. For example, <sampleScript>. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> www.feenk.com >> >> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com âSoftware has no shape. Actually, it has no one shape. It has many."

Dec. 19, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] a request to change the meaning of <example> pragma

by Tudor Girba

We did not try, but it should not be a problem, except for the fact that there will be a GTExample class in Pharo 5 packaged with GTInspector. Cheers, Doru > On Dec 19, 2016, at 12:51 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > Is it possible to have examples in a 5.0? > > Phil > > On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 10:49 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi, > > As you might know, a while ago we created GTExamples, a framework that supports both example-based live documentation and testing: > http://gtoolkit.org/doc/Examples/examples.html > > GTExamples was part of the GTInspector for a while, but as it evolved, we pulled it out in a separate project. This separate project is not in Pharo anymore but it is part of the full GToolkit configuration (Pharo only ships the core of GToolkit). The idea of taking GTExamples out was to allow the community to have a more elaborate discussion about the role of examples in our environment. > > I have invited you to join that conversation, but it did not take off. I understand that perhaps the topic does not look appealing at this moment. > > We will certainly continue to evolve GTExamples both on the semantics level of the dependency constructs and on the integration with tools. Our goal is to enable a new practice that I would like to call Example-Guilded Development (or Example-Driven Development), and position Pharo to be the only platform on which someone can do that. But, that is our goal, and does not have to be the same with other peopleâs goal. > > Right now, GTExamples relies on the <gtExample> pragma to denote a method that returns an object that exemplifies something. Executing this method as an example should have no side-effects (either because the method itself does not have a side-effect, or because the example method defines how the cleanup should happen using the mechanism provided by GTExamples). > > This meaning is different from the meaning of the <example> pragma used through Pharo. There are currently 55 places that use this pragma inside Pharo and most of them come from FastTable. As things will progress and more libraries might use GTExamples, the situation can become confusing. > > To make things less confusing in the future, I would like to define the meaning of the <example> to denote a method that returns an object without having side effects. Would you agree with this? > > If yes, I would suggest the name of the new pragma that would replace the existing one to include âscriptâ in the name. For example, <sampleScript>. > > What do you think? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them."

Dec. 19, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] a request to change the meaning of <example> pragma

by Tudor Girba

Hi, You can find the documentation including a tutorial in the link below. And of course, there are examples for examples in the code: http://gtoolkit.org/doc/Examples/examples.html Cheers, Doru > On Dec 18, 2016, at 10:55 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I would like an actual example to understand this, funny , I know > On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 at 23:50, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi, > > As you might know, a while ago we created GTExamples, a framework that supports both example-based live documentation and testing: > http://gtoolkit.org/doc/Examples/examples.html > > GTExamples was part of the GTInspector for a while, but as it evolved, we pulled it out in a separate project. This separate project is not in Pharo anymore but it is part of the full GToolkit configuration (Pharo only ships the core of GToolkit). The idea of taking GTExamples out was to allow the community to have a more elaborate discussion about the role of examples in our environment. > > I have invited you to join that conversation, but it did not take off. I understand that perhaps the topic does not look appealing at this moment. > > We will certainly continue to evolve GTExamples both on the semantics level of the dependency constructs and on the integration with tools. Our goal is to enable a new practice that I would like to call Example-Guilded Development (or Example-Driven Development), and position Pharo to be the only platform on which someone can do that. But, that is our goal, and does not have to be the same with other peopleâs goal. > > Right now, GTExamples relies on the <gtExample> pragma to denote a method that returns an object that exemplifies something. Executing this method as an example should have no side-effects (either because the method itself does not have a side-effect, or because the example method defines how the cleanup should happen using the mechanism provided by GTExamples). > > This meaning is different from the meaning of the <example> pragma used through Pharo. There are currently 55 places that use this pragma inside Pharo and most of them come from FastTable. As things will progress and more libraries might use GTExamples, the situation can become confusing. > > To make things less confusing in the future, I would like to define the meaning of the <example> to denote a method that returns an object without having side effects. Would you agree with this? > > If yes, I would suggest the name of the new pragma that would replace the existing one to include âscriptâ in the name. For example, <sampleScript>. > > What do you think? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal."

Dec. 19, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] a request to change the meaning of <example> pragma

by Ben Coman

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 5:49 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi, > > As you might know, a while ago we created GTExamples, a framework that supports both example-based live documentation and testing: > http://gtoolkit.org/doc/Examples/examples.html > > GTExamples was part of the GTInspector for a while, but as it evolved, we pulled it out in a separate project. This separate project is not in Pharo anymore but it is part of the full GToolkit configuration (Pharo only ships the core of GToolkit). The idea of taking GTExamples out was to allow the community to have a more elaborate discussion about the role of examples in our environment. > > I have invited you to join that conversation, but it did not take off. I understand that perhaps the topic does not look appealing at this moment. > > We will certainly continue to evolve GTExamples both on the semantics level of the dependency constructs and on the integration with tools. Our goal is to enable a new practice that I would like to call Example-Guilded Development (or Example-Driven Development), and position Pharo to be the only platform on which someone can do that. But, that is our goal, and does not have to be the same with other peopleâs goal. > > Right now, GTExamples relies on the <gtExample> pragma to denote a method that returns an object that exemplifies something. I've previously not done a good job of promoting the use of <sample> for this. I'll try spinning this wheel once more. There are two concepts to consider: * The returned object. * The method code that creates the returned object. The "returned object" is best considered a <sample>. The "method code" is best considered an <example> that produces the sample. http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-example-and-vs-sample/ The term "exemplifies/exemplification" associates equally with both... * http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/example * http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/sample but for example... from a draw full of cutlery you don't "take an example spoon", you "take a sample spoon". So it depends on where you want the focus to be. * If the focus is on working with a sample object, then <sample> makes a better pragma for the method creating it. * If the focus is on the code producing the sample, then <example> is a better choice. Maybe you are constrained by existing industry terminology, but "Example-Driven Development" might be equally called "Sample-Driven Development". Without having read into the topic, intuitively the former broadly encompasses copying static code while the latter feels more limited to working with an object. My proposal... * <sample> provides a narrower sense of side-effect-free provision of object to work with. "Samples are often tangible parts and can be observed" * <example> provides a broader sense of showing how things work together, in ways that may or may-not include side effects that you don't actually want to execute - just to refer to. "Examples are used [to] illustrate something. [Its] expected that the example will be imitated and replicated among its audience." * <script> provides a sense of system management, of methods causing significant side effects. You won't want to copy these methods, just make use them. <sampleScript> feels awkward to apply to examples, since by my these are neither samples nor scripts. cheers -ben > Executing this method as an example should have no side-effects (either because the method itself does not have a side-effect, or because the example method defines how the cleanup should happen using the mechanism provided by GTExamples). > > This meaning is different from the meaning of the <example> pragma used through Pharo. There are currently 55 places that use this pragma inside Pharo and most of them come from FastTable. As things will progress and more libraries might use GTExamples, the situation can become confusing. > > To make things less confusing in the future, I would like to define the meaning of the <example> to denote a method that returns an object without having side effects. Would you agree with this? > > If yes, I would suggest the name of the new pragma that would replace the existing one to include âscriptâ in the name. For example, <sampleScript>. > > What do you think? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." > >

Dec. 19, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] a request to change the meaning of <example> pragma

by phil＠highoctane.be

Is it possible to have examples in a 5.0? Phil On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 10:49 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi, > > As you might know, a while ago we created GTExamples, a framework that > supports both example-based live documentation and testing: > http://gtoolkit.org/doc/Examples/examples.html > > GTExamples was part of the GTInspector for a while, but as it evolved, we > pulled it out in a separate project. This separate project is not in Pharo > anymore but it is part of the full GToolkit configuration (Pharo only ships > the core of GToolkit). The idea of taking GTExamples out was to allow the > community to have a more elaborate discussion about the role of examples in > our environment. > > I have invited you to join that conversation, but it did not take off. I > understand that perhaps the topic does not look appealing at this moment. > > We will certainly continue to evolve GTExamples both on the semantics > level of the dependency constructs and on the integration with tools. Our > goal is to enable a new practice that I would like to call Example-Guilded > Development (or Example-Driven Development), and position Pharo to be the > only platform on which someone can do that. But, that is our goal, and does > not have to be the same with other peopleâs goal. > > Right now, GTExamples relies on the <gtExample> pragma to denote a method > that returns an object that exemplifies something. Executing this method as > an example should have no side-effects (either because the method itself > does not have a side-effect, or because the example method defines how the > cleanup should happen using the mechanism provided by GTExamples). > > This meaning is different from the meaning of the <example> pragma used > through Pharo. There are currently 55 places that use this pragma inside > Pharo and most of them come from FastTable. As things will progress and > more libraries might use GTExamples, the situation can become confusing. > > To make things less confusing in the future, I would like to define the > meaning of the <example> to denote a method that returns an object without > having side effects. Would you agree with this? > > If yes, I would suggest the name of the new pragma that would replace the > existing one to include âscriptâ in the name. For example, <sampleScript>. > > What do you think? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." > > >

Dec. 19, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] a request to change the meaning of <example> pragma

by Dimitris Chloupis

I would like an actual example to understand this, funny , I know On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 at 23:50, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi, > > As you might know, a while ago we created GTExamples, a framework that > supports both example-based live documentation and testing: > http://gtoolkit.org/doc/Examples/examples.html > > GTExamples was part of the GTInspector for a while, but as it evolved, we > pulled it out in a separate project. This separate project is not in Pharo > anymore but it is part of the full GToolkit configuration (Pharo only ships > the core of GToolkit). The idea of taking GTExamples out was to allow the > community to have a more elaborate discussion about the role of examples in > our environment. > > I have invited you to join that conversation, but it did not take off. I > understand that perhaps the topic does not look appealing at this moment. > > We will certainly continue to evolve GTExamples both on the semantics > level of the dependency constructs and on the integration with tools. Our > goal is to enable a new practice that I would like to call Example-Guilded > Development (or Example-Driven Development), and position Pharo to be the > only platform on which someone can do that. But, that is our goal, and does > not have to be the same with other peopleâs goal. > > Right now, GTExamples relies on the <gtExample> pragma to denote a method > that returns an object that exemplifies something. Executing this method as > an example should have no side-effects (either because the method itself > does not have a side-effect, or because the example method defines how the > cleanup should happen using the mechanism provided by GTExamples). > > This meaning is different from the meaning of the <example> pragma used > through Pharo. There are currently 55 places that use this pragma inside > Pharo and most of them come from FastTable. As things will progress and > more libraries might use GTExamples, the situation can become confusing. > > To make things less confusing in the future, I would like to define the > meaning of the <example> to denote a method that returns an object without > having side effects. Would you agree with this? > > If yes, I would suggest the name of the new pragma that would replace the > existing one to include âscriptâ in the name. For example, <sampleScript>. > > What do you think? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." > > >

Dec. 18, 2016

a request to change the meaning of <example> pragma

by Tudor Girba

Hi, As you might know, a while ago we created GTExamples, a framework that supports both example-based live documentation and testing: http://gtoolkit.org/doc/Examples/examples.html GTExamples was part of the GTInspector for a while, but as it evolved, we pulled it out in a separate project. This separate project is not in Pharo anymore but it is part of the full GToolkit configuration (Pharo only ships the core of GToolkit). The idea of taking GTExamples out was to allow the community to have a more elaborate discussion about the role of examples in our environment. I have invited you to join that conversation, but it did not take off. I understand that perhaps the topic does not look appealing at this moment. We will certainly continue to evolve GTExamples both on the semantics level of the dependency constructs and on the integration with tools. Our goal is to enable a new practice that I would like to call Example-Guilded Development (or Example-Driven Development), and position Pharo to be the only platform on which someone can do that. But, that is our goal, and does not have to be the same with other peopleâs goal. Right now, GTExamples relies on the <gtExample> pragma to denote a method that returns an object that exemplifies something. Executing this method as an example should have no side-effects (either because the method itself does not have a side-effect, or because the example method defines how the cleanup should happen using the mechanism provided by GTExamples). This meaning is different from the meaning of the <example> pragma used through Pharo. There are currently 55 places that use this pragma inside Pharo and most of them come from FastTable. As things will progress and more libraries might use GTExamples, the situation can become confusing. To make things less confusing in the future, I would like to define the meaning of the <example> to denote a method that returns an object without having side effects. Would you agree with this? If yes, I would suggest the name of the new pragma that would replace the existing one to include âscriptâ in the name. For example, <sampleScript>. What do you think? Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."

Dec. 18, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] Re: Too frequent crashes :-(

by Peter Uhnak

Hi Alex, I certainly understand your frustration, I felt it too on Windows to the point where I stopped using Pharo for couple of weeks out of rage, and then spend in total at least 40+ hours digging into the VM until I added usable workaround for Windows. Not to mention how frustrating was the fixing it. Obviously on Mac there are still some unresolved pathways, but it will not magically fix itself. The reason for the crash (bad object pinning and moving of canvas memory) has been known for some time now, so more crash.dmps do not give any more insight. If this is to be resolved then one of the two have to happen: A) Someone who really understands VM/image memory management / GC / pinning fixes the issue. B) Someone with Mac (which I don't have) digs around BitBlt code (or wherever it was) and adds a similar workaround. Considering the issue has emerged more than a year ago (Spur switch), I don't think (A) is going to happen any time soon, so I guess the only chance is to get elbows greasy and fix it yourself (B) (or you make one of your students suffer :)). I didn't have a single Roassal/BitBlt related crash on Windows since my fix was added, so there should be a way to add a workaround for Mac too. (there are of course crashes related to FT, but the story is arguably the same). TL;DR: I don't think it's on a todo list of anyone who actually understands this, so the only way to fix it is by yourself or find a concrete person that would be willing to dig into it. Peter

Dec. 18, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] ptsd rage

by Tudor Girba

Hi Robert, I am really sorry to hear your condition, and indeed, I hope you will find a remedy. Thank you very much for this email. I can imagine it was hard to write it. Cheers, Tudor > On Dec 17, 2016, at 2:57 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I need to apologize for all my dread behavior. Here is the reason, and I am on service-connected disability. Current diagnosis is Complex PTSD. Sorry about all my sturm und drang. > > http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/problems/anger-and-trauma.asp > > > Sincerely, > > Robert > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."

Dec. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Too frequent crashes :-(

by stepharong

Which vm exactly? On which os? Which version of Pharo? Such report are totally useless without any precise information. The proof is that I do not get any crash recently with Pharo. I will let you guess my os, image version and vm version because this is too much fun. Stef > Hi! > > Vincent and I are experiencing many crashes from GrafPort>copyBits. It > crashes every couple of minutes. > > I know that not much can be done so far. Stability is my biggest concern > with Pharo :-( > I use the latest VM. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Dec. 17, 2016