- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Catalog projects in Spotter

by Tudor Girba

Hi, > On Mar 9, 2017, at 3:22 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > > Yes, you are right Sven. > > When I disable network the Spotter is not freezing. Do we have a way to do the DNS resolution asynchronously? I mean, is it doable in Pharo 7 or it is a big problem. Iâm not an expert in the questions that require VM, but it seams that http requests can be executed without blocking the UI thread, is it possible to resolve DNS in the same way? > > Uko > > P.S. why there are TWO checkboxes in Settings for the catalog plugin in Spotter? And they are not synchronized by the way, so you need to turn on both. Each spotter extension comes with checkbox to disable them. This is a generic mechanism that is important for cases when people want to replace an existing extension with another variation. For example, people might have different preferred strategies to search for implementors (e.g., also search for class names). Cheers, Doru > > >> On 9 Mar 2017, at 09:41, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >> Guys, >> >> Please stop speculating, no it is not Monticello, no it is not HTTP access, no it is not networking itself, it is DNS resolution, in a very specific situation: >> >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18281/NetNameResolver-class-addressForNam… >> >> Note also that many, many people deploy Pharo in production contexts with heavy multi threading and networking loads with great success - that would not be possible if we did not get the basics right. >> >> Sven >> >>> On 9 Mar 2017, at 09:31, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: >>> >>> Dimitris, >>> >>> but AFAIK when Spotter freezes itâs not using Metacello. It does an http request to pharo catalog. Isnât this a problem with http request blocking the only thread that we have? >>> >>> Uko >>> >>>> On 9 Mar 2017, at 08:23, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I do not need to, the problem is obvious as the sun when one uses Monticello which can easily freeze the image on a slow connection. Still it's a Monticello problem, not a Pharo problem. But then that's not the most serious problem with Monticello. >>>> >>>> On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 at 17:04, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: >>>> I see you are not teaching to people or running demos in a crowd with Pharo. >>>> >>>> Otherwise, you would get the point I can tell you 100% >>>> >>>> Phil >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Frankly I fail to see the problem, if a tool connects to the internet and does not have some sort of timeout or speed check then is the obligation of the tool to fix that and not of Pharo to offer an airplane mode. Its would make an already complex pharo environment even more complex. Not to exclude the fact that having two mode will create useless confusion for beginners. >>>> >>>> Offer a new mode for Pharo ? No >>>> Offer methods that check internet connectivity and internet speed for pharo tool developers to use ? Yes >>>> >>>> I feel that Pharo can be simplified down to 1% without the need for a big compromise on features. Maybe it does not matter for us that are used to working with Blender but its a huge deal for beginners and if we want to attract a lot more new users. >>>> >>>> My dream is that version 8 be dedicated ONLY to simplifying the Pharo code, by removing all the extra fat. No new bug fixes (unless created by the removal of the code), no new features. I know we have bootstrap , but thats a completely different thing. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:15 PM phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: >>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19818/Support-for-Airplane-mode-in-Pharo for keeping track of this >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 1:02 AM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 6:35 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: >>>>> This is not only when teaching. >>>>> >>>>> I was at a conference today and showcased some Grafoscopio. >>>>> >>>>> Spotty wifi and crowded bandwith makes it bad looking. >>>>> >>>>> We need an "Airplane mode" switch. >>>> >>>> That is a cool way to describe it. A well know paradigm. >>>> Its a setting that probably would change daya to day more than any other, >>>> so perhaps it would even be reasonable to have this as a permanent >>>> mode button on the background, >>>> or the task bar much like MS Windows taskbar status icons. >>>> >>>> cheers -ben >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Maybe can we have that available in the session from the settings. >>>>> >>>>> Phil >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:55 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The problem is that there are people who give lectures in universities >>>>>> with bad internet (internet is bad in most of the universities I tried) and >>>>>> they done want freezes. On the other hand we have people who sit in their >>>>>> offices with fast machines, fast internet and they want features. Until now >>>>>> we were looking at how to satisfy one of the groups and which one exactly. >>>>>> Why not to try finding a solution for both. For example we can have the >>>>>> plugging enabled by default and have Spotter measuring the time needed to do >>>>>> a query. Whenever the time surpasses frustration limit (10 sec? I duno) >>>>>> Spotter will ask if the user wants to turn off the plugin, of turns it of >>>>>> automatically and tells where to re-enable it. The other way would be to >>>>>> have known plugins to appear at the bottom of Spotter, and a user can >>>>>> install/enable them with one click. So when you search but there is nothing >>>>>> you know that there are more plugins that may solve your problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes it is more complicated to implement in in a smart way rather them just >>>>>> set the default boolean value of a setting, but we spend too much time >>>>>> anyway convincing the other side that we are rightâ¦ >>>>>> >>>>>> Uko >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 21:30, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One day I would like to invite you to give a lecture in a not that bad >>>>>>> french university >>>>>>> with a not that good network. Each time Pharo freezes you pay me 5 Euros >>>>>>> only and we can >>>>>>> go and pay some really expensive restaurant with your money. >>>>>>> Simple on my machine it times out every five minutes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <sorry I could not resist> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 19:51, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We should make it available from the catalog :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, it most certainly should be. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If only we could then tell user to type >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Shift-Enter Sublimish Enter >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> to install it using Spotter right from the catalog ;-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sorry, I couldn't resist ... <ducking> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2017-03-06 9:29 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 09:22, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2017-03-06 8:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:57, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Issue-Validator-simple/7294/artifac… >>>>>>>>>>> is not integrated for some Monkey reason anyway - still should b/c if you >>>>>>>>>>> put sublimish, you need a decent matching Spotter. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Also, I see >>>>>>>>>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19796/Remove-duplicate-code-from-Sublimis… >>>>>>>>>>> on 5/3. If this moves forward, why not the other one? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> BTW Sublimish was an extra thing. Who got that in image? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I donât know. >>>>>>>>>> It shouldnât :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What we should do is to create a page for themes and links to it (and >>>>>>>>>> they should be in catalog) :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Well, it was me who proposed the slice and yes, I was aware of the >>>>>>>>>> fact that I should not do it because of code freeze (I was not aware of the >>>>>>>>>> two themes policy). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> it is not a policy, it is just the idea I have :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We can remove it again, I will prepare a slice. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> problem with it is that is makes ripples. >>>>>>>>> If community want it (is nice), we can include it, but I would wait >>>>>>>>> for P7, yes. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19801/Remove-SublimishTheme >>>>>>>>> At least it was an advertisement for this theme that moved it forward >>>>>>>>> and the integration of it helped to improve the dark theme too. And showed >>>>>>>>> again how much we need the concept of palettes used strictly in the system. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- Pavel >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- Pavel >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Phil >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano >>>>>>>>>>> <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:17, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for my use, >>>>>>>>>>>> but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows list on spotter, and I like >>>>>>>>>>>> in general all this new additions. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> By the way, even if I like it, I would not have integrated >>>>>>>>>>> SublimishTheme. For same reason I didnât integrated DarkMetalTheme: My idea >>>>>>>>>>> is to have just two themes *in image*: one white, one dark, and allow people >>>>>>>>>>> to install other themes from catalog. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Why? Because each class inside image becomes our responsibility and >>>>>>>>>>> then a maintainability issue. With themes in particular already happened >>>>>>>>>>> that existing themes became abandonware inside the image and we needed to >>>>>>>>>>> clean up, not without problems. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> cheers, >>>>>>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ps: which means also yes: that issue got integrated because I failed >>>>>>>>>>> to control the flow of issues... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And I know, most of those additions are usability enhancements so a >>>>>>>>>>>> good thing. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in theory) >>>>>>>>>>>> frozen version? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Pharo 7 will arrive soonâ¦ *if* we can fix all things missing. If I >>>>>>>>>>>> can suggest an orientation, it would be good, for those that use linux and >>>>>>>>>>>> mac (windows is not ready), to test and help fix 64bits version. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for example why >>>>>>>>>>>> Spotter does not shows search line. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits but that >>>>>>>>>>>> meant: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> - some important changes in UFFI >>>>>>>>>>>> - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks for Cairo >>>>>>>>>>>> (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an image problem that causes a >>>>>>>>>>>> callback problem). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I would say all this and the fact we are working on 64bits in >>>>>>>>>>>> general deserves a lot of testing. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (Iâm at the train >>>>>>>>>>>> now), but in the mean time you can download all from here: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip >>>>>>>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip >>>>>>>>>>>> (linux) >>>>>>>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip (mac) >>>>>>>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip (in case you need >>>>>>>>>>>> them) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Every successful trip needs a suitable vehicle."

March 9, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Catalog projects in Spotter

by Yuriy Tymchuk

Yes, you are right Sven. When I disable network the Spotter is not freezing. Do we have a way to do the DNS resolution asynchronously? I mean, is it doable in Pharo 7 or it is a big problem. Iâm not an expert in the questions that require VM, but it seams that http requests can be executed without blocking the UI thread, is it possible to resolve DNS in the same way? Uko P.S. why there are TWO checkboxes in Settings for the catalog plugin in Spotter? And they are not synchronized by the way, so you need to turn on both. > On 9 Mar 2017, at 09:41, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > Guys, > > Please stop speculating, no it is not Monticello, no it is not HTTP access, no it is not networking itself, it is DNS resolution, in a very specific situation: > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18281/NetNameResolver-class-addressForNam… > > Note also that many, many people deploy Pharo in production contexts with heavy multi threading and networking loads with great success - that would not be possible if we did not get the basics right. > > Sven > >> On 9 Mar 2017, at 09:31, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: >> >> Dimitris, >> >> but AFAIK when Spotter freezes itâs not using Metacello. It does an http request to pharo catalog. Isnât this a problem with http request blocking the only thread that we have? >> >> Uko >> >>> On 9 Mar 2017, at 08:23, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> I do not need to, the problem is obvious as the sun when one uses Monticello which can easily freeze the image on a slow connection. Still it's a Monticello problem, not a Pharo problem. But then that's not the most serious problem with Monticello. >>> >>> On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 at 17:04, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: >>> I see you are not teaching to people or running demos in a crowd with Pharo. >>> >>> Otherwise, you would get the point I can tell you 100% >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Frankly I fail to see the problem, if a tool connects to the internet and does not have some sort of timeout or speed check then is the obligation of the tool to fix that and not of Pharo to offer an airplane mode. Its would make an already complex pharo environment even more complex. Not to exclude the fact that having two mode will create useless confusion for beginners. >>> >>> Offer a new mode for Pharo ? No >>> Offer methods that check internet connectivity and internet speed for pharo tool developers to use ? Yes >>> >>> I feel that Pharo can be simplified down to 1% without the need for a big compromise on features. Maybe it does not matter for us that are used to working with Blender but its a huge deal for beginners and if we want to attract a lot more new users. >>> >>> My dream is that version 8 be dedicated ONLY to simplifying the Pharo code, by removing all the extra fat. No new bug fixes (unless created by the removal of the code), no new features. I know we have bootstrap , but thats a completely different thing. >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:15 PM phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: >>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19818/Support-for-Airplane-mode-in-Pharo for keeping track of this >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 1:02 AM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 6:35 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: >>>> This is not only when teaching. >>>> >>>> I was at a conference today and showcased some Grafoscopio. >>>> >>>> Spotty wifi and crowded bandwith makes it bad looking. >>>> >>>> We need an "Airplane mode" switch. >>> >>> That is a cool way to describe it. A well know paradigm. >>> Its a setting that probably would change daya to day more than any other, >>> so perhaps it would even be reasonable to have this as a permanent >>> mode button on the background, >>> or the task bar much like MS Windows taskbar status icons. >>> >>> cheers -ben >>> >>>> >>>> Maybe can we have that available in the session from the settings. >>>> >>>> Phil >>>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:55 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The problem is that there are people who give lectures in universities >>>>> with bad internet (internet is bad in most of the universities I tried) and >>>>> they done want freezes. On the other hand we have people who sit in their >>>>> offices with fast machines, fast internet and they want features. Until now >>>>> we were looking at how to satisfy one of the groups and which one exactly. >>>>> Why not to try finding a solution for both. For example we can have the >>>>> plugging enabled by default and have Spotter measuring the time needed to do >>>>> a query. Whenever the time surpasses frustration limit (10 sec? I duno) >>>>> Spotter will ask if the user wants to turn off the plugin, of turns it of >>>>> automatically and tells where to re-enable it. The other way would be to >>>>> have known plugins to appear at the bottom of Spotter, and a user can >>>>> install/enable them with one click. So when you search but there is nothing >>>>> you know that there are more plugins that may solve your problem. >>>>> >>>>> Yes it is more complicated to implement in in a smart way rather them just >>>>> set the default boolean value of a setting, but we spend too much time >>>>> anyway convincing the other side that we are rightâ¦ >>>>> >>>>> Uko >>>>> >>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 21:30, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> One day I would like to invite you to give a lecture in a not that bad >>>>>> french university >>>>>> with a not that good network. Each time Pharo freezes you pay me 5 Euros >>>>>> only and we can >>>>>> go and pay some really expensive restaurant with your money. >>>>>> Simple on my machine it times out every five minutes. >>>>>> >>>>>> <sorry I could not resist> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 19:51, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We should make it available from the catalog :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, it most certainly should be. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If only we could then tell user to type >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Shift-Enter Sublimish Enter >>>>>>> >>>>>>> to install it using Spotter right from the catalog ;-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry, I couldn't resist ... <ducking> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2017-03-06 9:29 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 09:22, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2017-03-06 8:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:57, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Issue-Validator-simple/7294/artifac… >>>>>>>>>> is not integrated for some Monkey reason anyway - still should b/c if you >>>>>>>>>> put sublimish, you need a decent matching Spotter. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Also, I see >>>>>>>>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19796/Remove-duplicate-code-from-Sublimis… >>>>>>>>>> on 5/3. If this moves forward, why not the other one? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> BTW Sublimish was an extra thing. Who got that in image? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I donât know. >>>>>>>>> It shouldnât :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What we should do is to create a page for themes and links to it (and >>>>>>>>> they should be in catalog) :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Well, it was me who proposed the slice and yes, I was aware of the >>>>>>>>> fact that I should not do it because of code freeze (I was not aware of the >>>>>>>>> two themes policy). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> it is not a policy, it is just the idea I have :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We can remove it again, I will prepare a slice. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> problem with it is that is makes ripples. >>>>>>>> If community want it (is nice), we can include it, but I would wait >>>>>>>> for P7, yes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19801/Remove-SublimishTheme >>>>>>>> At least it was an advertisement for this theme that moved it forward >>>>>>>> and the integration of it helped to improve the dark theme too. And showed >>>>>>>> again how much we need the concept of palettes used strictly in the system. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- Pavel >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- Pavel >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Phil >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano >>>>>>>>>> <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:17, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for my use, >>>>>>>>>>> but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows list on spotter, and I like >>>>>>>>>>> in general all this new additions. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> By the way, even if I like it, I would not have integrated >>>>>>>>>> SublimishTheme. For same reason I didnât integrated DarkMetalTheme: My idea >>>>>>>>>> is to have just two themes *in image*: one white, one dark, and allow people >>>>>>>>>> to install other themes from catalog. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Why? Because each class inside image becomes our responsibility and >>>>>>>>>> then a maintainability issue. With themes in particular already happened >>>>>>>>>> that existing themes became abandonware inside the image and we needed to >>>>>>>>>> clean up, not without problems. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> cheers, >>>>>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ps: which means also yes: that issue got integrated because I failed >>>>>>>>>> to control the flow of issues... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> And I know, most of those additions are usability enhancements so a >>>>>>>>>>> good thing. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in theory) >>>>>>>>>>> frozen version? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Pharo 7 will arrive soonâ¦ *if* we can fix all things missing. If I >>>>>>>>>>> can suggest an orientation, it would be good, for those that use linux and >>>>>>>>>>> mac (windows is not ready), to test and help fix 64bits version. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for example why >>>>>>>>>>> Spotter does not shows search line. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits but that >>>>>>>>>>> meant: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> - some important changes in UFFI >>>>>>>>>>> - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks for Cairo >>>>>>>>>>> (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an image problem that causes a >>>>>>>>>>> callback problem). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I would say all this and the fact we are working on 64bits in >>>>>>>>>>> general deserves a lot of testing. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (Iâm at the train >>>>>>>>>>> now), but in the mean time you can download all from here: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip >>>>>>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip >>>>>>>>>>> (linux) >>>>>>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip (mac) >>>>>>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip (in case you need >>>>>>>>>>> them) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> cheers, >>>>>>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> > >

March 9, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] What is the craziest bug you ever face

by Nicolai Hess

2017-03-09 12:36 GMT+01:00 Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com>: > Hi guys > > During the DSU workshop we were brainstorming about what are the most > difficult bugs we faced and what are the conceptual tools that would have > helped you. > > Stef > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14332/use-ast-not-parseTree-so-we-benefit… Running a RBLintRule modified the (cached) AST of this methods code. So, even if the compiled method did not changed, and the "real" source code did not changed, you actually see the source code from the modified AST. There are a couple of things which went wrong resp. make this bug difficult: 1. A LintRule that just should *check* the code, actually created a transformation somewhere behind the scene (Ok, it is a RBTransformationRule, and originally used for code refactoring as well) 2. As long as we *analyze* code, the real code (string/ast/source) should be considered immutable 3. the modified AST was cached 4. what-you-see-is-not-what-you-get. We are (or I am) used to consider the system browser a tool for view and edit methods source code. If the code we see isn't actually the methods source, but another representation of some kind of (cached) model (formatted AST-node-source code), it would be good to have some way to indicate this (switch between "raw"-code / model-code / ast-node-code).

March 9, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] ExternalForm was removed 10 days ago in 60413

by Aliaksei Syrel

Aha, ok :) Will copy, thanks! Cheers, Alex On 9 March 2017 at 13:25, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: > It's own please, because it is a subclass of Form and in UnifiedFFI it > would make a dependency of FFI on graphics > > -- Pavel > > 2017-03-09 12:15 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > >> wellâ¦ it was removed and I put it on OSWindows-SDL2 because it was the >> only place where it was being used. >> We can move it again to a more general place (Like UnifiedFFIâ¦ or itâs >> own). >> >> Esteban >> >> > On 9 Mar 2017, at 11:54, Aliaksei Syrel <alex.syrel(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > ... and was moved to OSWindow-SDL2 as OSSDL2ExternalForm. >> > >> > If we require external form but don't want to depend on OSWindow what >> is the right way to go? Do we need to copy OSSDL2ExternalForm with project >> specific name? >> > >> > Advice with best practice would be nice :) >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Alex >> >> >> >

March 9, 2017

Callback regression in Pharo 6 (60437)

by Aliaksei Syrel

Callback instantiation: createCallback > ^ FFICallback > signature: #(long (long)) > block: [ :value | value ] C functions: long test(long(*function)(long), long value) { > return function(value); } #include <limits.h> > > long long_min() { > return LONG_MIN; > } FFI calls: primCall: aCallback long: aNumber > ^ self ffiCall: #(long test(FFICallback aCallback, long aNumber)) > primLongMin > ^ self ffiCall: #(long long_min()) Test case: test > self > assert: (self primCall: self createCallback long: self primLongMin) equals: self primLongMin self primLongMin returns -2147483648 (= LONG_MIN). Result of callback is 0 => test fails. P.S. works in Pharo 5 Cheers, Alex

March 9, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Archive Page for Pharo TechTalks

by Dimitris Chloupis

I live to serve :D On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 2:40 PM Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > thanks @kilon, I will upload them to youtube and add to list/archive > > On 9 Mar 2017, at 13:07, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I kept the first few talks in this repo > > https://gitlab.com/Kilon/pharo-techtalks/tree/master > > I have mentioned it before but I mention it once again to remind people or > maybe you want to add those to the website. Its easy to link directly to > each audio file if you want. > > On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 1:14 PM Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > â¦ and I moved techtalks from http://pharo.org/community to > http://pharo.org/documentation (because I think it belongs there). > > Esteban > > > On 9 Mar 2017, at 11:56, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > and I made a youtube playlist: > > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4actYd6bfnx8l8cqYWhdNB6gJgRvk5sH > > cheers, > Esteban > > On 9 Mar 2017, at 11:02, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Hi, > > I added > > http://pharo.org/TechTalk > > This is linked from http://pharo.org/community > > The idea is to keep a log of all past tech talks with links to the > archival recording (if there is one). > > Marcus > > > > >

March 9, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Archive Page for Pharo TechTalks

by Esteban Lorenzano

thanks @kilon, I will upload them to youtube and add to list/archive > On 9 Mar 2017, at 13:07, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I kept the first few talks in this repo > > https://gitlab.com/Kilon/pharo-techtalks/tree/master <https://gitlab.com/Kilon/pharo-techtalks/tree/master> > > I have mentioned it before but I mention it once again to remind people or maybe you want to add those to the website. Its easy to link directly to each audio file if you want. > > On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 1:14 PM Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: > â¦ and I moved techtalks from http://pharo.org/community <http://pharo.org/community> to http://pharo.org/documentation <http://pharo.org/documentation> (because I think it belongs there). > > Esteban > > >> On 9 Mar 2017, at 11:56, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> and I made a youtube playlist: >> >> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4actYd6bfnx8l8cqYWhdNB6gJgRvk5sH <https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4actYd6bfnx8l8cqYWhdNB6gJgRvk5sH> >> >> cheers, >> Esteban >> >>> On 9 Mar 2017, at 11:02, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr <mailto:marcus.denker@inria.fr>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I added >>> >>> http://pharo.org/TechTalk <http://pharo.org/TechTalk> >>> >>> This is linked from http://pharo.org/community <http://pharo.org/community> >>> >>> The idea is to keep a log of all past tech talks with links to the archival recording (if there is one). >>> >>> Marcus >>> >>> >> >

March 9, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] What is the craziest bug you ever face

by Dimitris Chloupis

For me it was when I was making the CPP library. CPP for those that do not know is a library I made that allows Pharo to control a C++ application. Its a very simple IPC bridge using shared memory mapped files. I was surprised how easy it was to make it from the C++ side Pharo side was a different story. UFFI is brilliantly simple to use BUT, as much as the Pharo rocks for debugging Pharo code it works under one caveat. The caveat being that your code makes no usage of UFFI or any FFI. Because the Pharo debugger has no means to debug UFFI. People may not realize it but practically UFFI is C coding. It make look like your usual Pharo code but make no mistake its C all the way. So the practice is to make sure the code works in C first. However if it works in C but for some strange reason it makes Pharo freak out you are all by yourself. Pharo code that can crash Pharo is the one that needs debugging the most. So to find these bug which fortunately there were not many I had to crash Pharo countless times and move extremely slow and step by step. None the less I success was the final result and I learned a ton in the process. On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 1:38 PM Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi guys > > During the DSU workshop we were brainstorming about what are the most > difficult bugs we faced and what are the conceptual tools that would have > helped you. > > Stef >

March 9, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] ExternalForm was removed 10 days ago in 60413

by Pavel Krivanek

It's own please, because it is a subclass of Form and in UnifiedFFI it would make a dependency of FFI on graphics -- Pavel 2017-03-09 12:15 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > wellâ¦ it was removed and I put it on OSWindows-SDL2 because it was the > only place where it was being used. > We can move it again to a more general place (Like UnifiedFFIâ¦ or itâs > own). > > Esteban > > > On 9 Mar 2017, at 11:54, Aliaksei Syrel <alex.syrel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > ... and was moved to OSWindow-SDL2 as OSSDL2ExternalForm. > > > > If we require external form but don't want to depend on OSWindow what is > the right way to go? Do we need to copy OSSDL2ExternalForm with project > specific name? > > > > Advice with best practice would be nice :) > > > > Cheers, > > Alex > > >

March 9, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Need to login to access pharo-dev ci

by Cyril Ferlicot D.

On 09/03/2017 12:40, Christophe Demarey wrote: > Is it better now? > > This is working for me :) Thank you -- Cyril Ferlicot http://www.synectique.eu 2 rue Jacques PrÃ©vert 01, 59650 Villeneuve d'ascq France

March 9, 2017