- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Remove all Configurations in the Pharo 6 release?

by Dimitris Chloupis

Just for the record the easiest way to load packages in the image the Package Browser relies solely on configurations . Is there a plan to migrate because as much I am vocal supporter of Pharo moving to git it will be a big lose if Package Browser is not ported . On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 at 09:55, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > However, Configurations are useful in offering people a way to understand > how the code is organized. For example, in Moose we have the inspector > extension that shows the dependencies and it is very valuable. > > The only thing we need is to Metacello to be able to load new versions of > the configuration/baseline. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Apr 16, 2017, at 8:36 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > For the record, the way we load the latest version of Moose is to > explicitly load the configurations we know about as being in the base Pharo > image. Like this: > > > > ./pharo $JOB_NAME.image eval "Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'Moose' > project: 'Glamour'; package: 'ConfigurationOfGlamourCore'; load. Gofer new > smalltalkhubUser: 'Moose' project: 'GToolkit'; package: > 'ConfigurationOfGTInspector'; package: 'ConfigurationOfGTInspectorCore'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfGTSpotter'; package: > 'ConfigurationOfGTPlayground'; package: 'ConfigurationOfGTPlaygroundCore'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfGToolkit'; package: 'ConfigurationOfGToolkitCore'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfGTEventRecorder'; load. Smalltalk snapshot: true > andQuit: true." > > > > This is a horrible hack, and like any hack it backfires in time. It > backfired now because we forgot about MooseAlgos being in the base Pharo > image :). > > > > Cheers, > > Doru > > > > > >> On Apr 15, 2017, at 11:23 PM, Cyril Ferlicot D. < > cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> On 15/04/2017 23:16, Tudor Girba wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> Ok, that is a better reason. > >>> > >>> As far as I can tell, the baseline situation is not much better, is it? > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Doru > >>> > >> > >> Yes. > >> > >> If the process would have been the same for Pharo 7 than for Pharo 6 I > >> would have suggest to unload the configurations after every update of a > >> project using configuration. > >> > >> Here, since the process will change I wait to see how the new process > >> will look like. But I would like the configurations/baselines to be > >> unload of Pharo to avoid this. > >> > >> I would like to unload all the configurations of the image of Pharo 6 to > >> remove a potential bug source of Pharo 6 for future users who would need > >> an update of GlamourCore, a GT tool, Ston, UFFI or any other project > >> having his configuration in the image. > >> > >> -- > >> Cyril Ferlicot > >> https://ferlicot.fr > >> > >> http://www.synectique.eu > >> 2 rue Jacques PrÃ©vert 01, > >> 59650 Villeneuve d'ascq France > >> > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > www.feenk.com > > > > "Problem solving should be focused on describing > > the problem in a way that makes the solution obvious." > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > âThe smaller and more pervasive the hardware becomes, the more physical > the software gets." > > >

April 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Epicea should ask before recovering

by Dimitris Chloupis

Me three Recover dialog is standard on all apps anyway On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 at 16:22, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > 2017-04-16 12:09 GMT+02:00 Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com>: > >> Of course if I am the only person that uses images in such a way then I >> can just work around it myself. (because having endless lists of config >> options is also nightmare) > > > Me too >

April 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Epicea should ask before recovering

by Denis Kudriashov

2017-04-16 12:09 GMT+02:00 Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com>: > Of course if I am the only person that uses images in such a way then I > can just work around it myself. (because having endless lists of config > options is also nightmare) Me too

April 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Pharo 6 snap install

by Ben Coman

Whoops, now copied to pharo-dev to continue discussion there. On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 9:13 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Luke Gorrie <luke(a)snabb.co> wrote: >> >> On 14 April 2017 at 22:20, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> This is what we always have when we release and we freeze it. >>> The vm 60 will be compatible with latest pharo 60 image. >> >> >> It is possible that I have misunderstood the whole situation and there is no problem at all. That would be awesome. Let's check :-) here is my understanding of the state of the world right now: >> >> The latest stable image release is Pharo-50771.image. >> The latest stable VM source release is pharo-vm-2016.02.18. >> These two releases are not compatible: This interpreter (vers. 6505) cannot read image file (vers. 6521). >> >> So the problem is that if a distribution packages the latest VM source release then the users won't be able to run the Pharo 5 VM that they download from pharo.org or via the pharo-launcher image. >> >> Is that correct? If so that's fine and hopefully we can fix it for Pharo 6.0. But if I am misunderstanding and a fix is available today that would also be good to know. >> >> I am looking for the "latest VM source release" in http://files.pharo.org/vm/src/vm-unix-sources/ > >> and assuming that non-spur is the stable option for pre-6.0 images. > > That is not correct. Pharo 5 used a Spur-VM since build 50496 circa 2015-12-14. > * http://files.pharo.org/image/50-preSpur/ > * http://files.pharo.org/image/50/ > > cheers -ben

April 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

by Dimitris Chloupis

Me too, even my blue theme is nothing more than a customization of dark theme. Plus dark theme is based on darcula dark theme which is by far the most popular dark theme out there. On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 at 14:27, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > clement esteban is using the dark theme since several years!!!! > phil too. > No new code! > > On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 12:35 AM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Isn't a couple days before release a bit late to change the default theme >> ? Aren't we in feature freeze mode ? >> >> If for marketing it makes sense to switch to the dark theme, then let's >> switch to dark theme. But why not switching for Pharo 7 instead ? >> Instability is bad for marketing anyway, isn't it ? >> >> I don't mind for myself, I will always switch back with user settings to >> the light theme it's more about the general perception of Pharo stability. >> >> On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 11:31 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> >> wrote: >> >>> Bah, I made GTSpotter dark theme work with SublimishTheme and got the >>> "yeah, for Pharo7". >>> >>> It is pissing me off but what can I say, just follow what is released. >>> >>> Compare Pharo 1 and Pharo 6. Worlds apart. I hope this continues. >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 4:48 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < >>> hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I vote for a voting system for these kind of changes. I cannot say it >>>> more clearly, and I don't know why is asking for a voting system negative? >>>> >>>> We all have problems. In the meantime you will make all the changes you >>>> like to do, and I will continue working on my own way, until I find there >>>> is more voice for the "small minority". >>>> >>>> 2017-04-15 9:30 GMT-03:00 Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com>: >>>> >>>>> Hi Hernan >>>>> >>>>> Why are you always so negative? Do you think that this is easy? >>>>> >>>>> Inria paid Denis to build a remote tool suite for ***research >>>>> purpose*** and we discovered that a new remote invocation framework was >>>>> needed and that they were far too many discussions between the model and >>>>> the view. >>>>> Denis proposed to build a new browser (and it was not in our plans) >>>>> and we decided that we cannot do it otherwise. >>>>> We could keep this tool for us but we share it with the community. >>>>> >>>>> Do you want another example? >>>>> I asked christopher to build versionner and he discovered that he >>>>> cannot script well enough the model. And versionner was made >>>>> for everybody. Now with git we will have to revise it. >>>>> >>>>> Do you want another example? >>>>> Iceberg we payed nicolas passerini to analyse the situation and to >>>>> build a system that other people >>>>> can use it. >>>>> >>>>> Do you want another example? >>>>> Esteban got in his face the FFI problem: you see Spur arrives and FFI >>>>> nabive boost does not so what do we do? >>>>> He worked like a mad (and it was not planned because we thought that >>>>> igor would adpta NB to spur then to 64 bits). >>>>> And the FFI is for everbody. >>>>> >>>>> Do you want another example? >>>>> We spent one year with pavel, guillermo and christophe to make sure >>>>> that we can make sure that the three yars >>>>> effort of the phd of guillermo on bootstrap are not lost. >>>>> >>>>> Do you want more? >>>>> All my books are open-source? Do you know how much time I take to >>>>> write a book? >>>>> >>>>> I spent 8 months designing a mooc and do you know how much I earned >>>>> doing it: 3000 Euros ( so I will make the computation to know how much per >>>>> hour I lost) and the mooc is free. >>>>> >>>>> May be all these examples have no value for you. But for me they have. >>>>> >>>>> So you see you can piss on us if it makes you feeling better, and you >>>>> can rant in your corner. >>>>> But this is not the vision I have about a community because we are >>>>> sharing all the things that we are doing. >>>>> >>>>> Stef >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 9:05 AM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < >>>>> hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2017-04-14 8:44 GMT-03:00 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2017-04-14 13:27 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also I am really wondering that this decision was not publicly >>>>>>>> discussed. We should vote for such kind of changes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> no, this is not how it works. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> yes, it is how it could work :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Current approach is not bad for technical choices because it is >>>>>>> difficult to make everybody evolved in particular technical topic. >>>>>>> But look&feel is different. You just open Pharo and have impression >>>>>>> is it looks good or not. Voting can work here. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I would forget about it. I stopped waiting for votes long time ago in >>>>>> this community. Also I decided to stop contributing to external projects >>>>>> (including reporting bugs) because who knows which tool (browser, morphic, >>>>>> etc) the board would like to add/remove tomorrow. I will not invest my time >>>>>> fixing tools who knows what's the plan on them. >>>>>> >>>>>> The best you can do is to work in the dark and adapt your stuff with >>>>>> each new Pharo version. >>>>>> Of course anyone with enough time/money could fork a new more >>>>>> democratic Pharo ;) >>>>>> >>>>>> HernÃ¡n >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >

April 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Help currency review

by Stephane Ducasse

tx ben indeed this is nice to update this text s. On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 4:25 AM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > At this late stage of Pharo 6 development, it might be good to do a pass > at... > World > Help > Help Browser content > > Epicea >Browsers - mentions two separate browser windows > > GT Debugger >> Actions - TODO > > GT Playground >> Overview - http://gt.moosetechnology.org redirects to > http://gtoolkit.org/ > and same for several GT entries > > Welcome > Getting Help says... > - The "Pharo Users" mailing list: http://lists.pharo.org/ > mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org > - The "Pharo Slack Team": http://slack4pharo.trentosur.com/ > - The "Pharo IRC Channel": irc.freenode.net, #pharo channel > - http://pharo.org/community > > So we should change from Slack to Discord. > I can take care of this one but a couple questions... > > 1. I propose a Discord #Help channel to record here in the help browser. > > 2. I bumped into an interesting tip > https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/3yu1bh/ > server_vs_channel_invites/ > > Thus I propose we have a #Welcome channel providing info like what the bot > has been providing. > Later it could be good to have a bot just in that channel, but not off > someone's home server :) > I would expect that channel to not need anyone lurking in it. Newcomers > will jump immediately > from there #Help or #General > > 3. How active is the IRC channel? Should we remove it from the help > browser? > The mention at http://pharo.org/community could be sufficient. > > 4. Should we backport this help info update to Pharo 5? > > cheers -ben > >

April 16, 2017

esteban is on vacation this week....

by Stephane Ducasse

like that you understand why he is no replying

April 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

by Stephane Ducasse

clement esteban is using the dark theme since several years!!!! phil too. No new code! On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 12:35 AM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Isn't a couple days before release a bit late to change the default theme > ? Aren't we in feature freeze mode ? > > If for marketing it makes sense to switch to the dark theme, then let's > switch to dark theme. But why not switching for Pharo 7 instead ? > Instability is bad for marketing anyway, isn't it ? > > I don't mind for myself, I will always switch back with user settings to > the light theme it's more about the general perception of Pharo stability. > > On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 11:31 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> > wrote: > >> Bah, I made GTSpotter dark theme work with SublimishTheme and got the >> "yeah, for Pharo7". >> >> It is pissing me off but what can I say, just follow what is released. >> >> Compare Pharo 1 and Pharo 6. Worlds apart. I hope this continues. >> >> Phil >> >> On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 4:48 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < >> hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I vote for a voting system for these kind of changes. I cannot say it >>> more clearly, and I don't know why is asking for a voting system negative? >>> >>> We all have problems. In the meantime you will make all the changes you >>> like to do, and I will continue working on my own way, until I find there >>> is more voice for the "small minority". >>> >>> 2017-04-15 9:30 GMT-03:00 Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>>> Hi Hernan >>>> >>>> Why are you always so negative? Do you think that this is easy? >>>> >>>> Inria paid Denis to build a remote tool suite for ***research >>>> purpose*** and we discovered that a new remote invocation framework was >>>> needed and that they were far too many discussions between the model and >>>> the view. >>>> Denis proposed to build a new browser (and it was not in our plans) and >>>> we decided that we cannot do it otherwise. >>>> We could keep this tool for us but we share it with the community. >>>> >>>> Do you want another example? >>>> I asked christopher to build versionner and he discovered that he >>>> cannot script well enough the model. And versionner was made >>>> for everybody. Now with git we will have to revise it. >>>> >>>> Do you want another example? >>>> Iceberg we payed nicolas passerini to analyse the situation and to >>>> build a system that other people >>>> can use it. >>>> >>>> Do you want another example? >>>> Esteban got in his face the FFI problem: you see Spur arrives and FFI >>>> nabive boost does not so what do we do? >>>> He worked like a mad (and it was not planned because we thought that >>>> igor would adpta NB to spur then to 64 bits). >>>> And the FFI is for everbody. >>>> >>>> Do you want another example? >>>> We spent one year with pavel, guillermo and christophe to make sure >>>> that we can make sure that the three yars >>>> effort of the phd of guillermo on bootstrap are not lost. >>>> >>>> Do you want more? >>>> All my books are open-source? Do you know how much time I take to write >>>> a book? >>>> >>>> I spent 8 months designing a mooc and do you know how much I earned >>>> doing it: 3000 Euros ( so I will make the computation to know how much per >>>> hour I lost) and the mooc is free. >>>> >>>> May be all these examples have no value for you. But for me they have. >>>> >>>> So you see you can piss on us if it makes you feeling better, and you >>>> can rant in your corner. >>>> But this is not the vision I have about a community because we are >>>> sharing all the things that we are doing. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 9:05 AM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < >>>> hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2017-04-14 8:44 GMT-03:00 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2017-04-14 13:27 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Also I am really wondering that this decision was not publicly >>>>>>> discussed. We should vote for such kind of changes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> no, this is not how it works. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> yes, it is how it could work :) >>>>>> >>>>>> Current approach is not bad for technical choices because it is >>>>>> difficult to make everybody evolved in particular technical topic. >>>>>> But look&feel is different. You just open Pharo and have impression >>>>>> is it looks good or not. Voting can work here. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I would forget about it. I stopped waiting for votes long time ago in >>>>> this community. Also I decided to stop contributing to external projects >>>>> (including reporting bugs) because who knows which tool (browser, morphic, >>>>> etc) the board would like to add/remove tomorrow. I will not invest my time >>>>> fixing tools who knows what's the plan on them. >>>>> >>>>> The best you can do is to work in the dark and adapt your stuff with >>>>> each new Pharo version. >>>>> Of course anyone with enough time/money could fork a new more >>>>> democratic Pharo ;) >>>>> >>>>> HernÃ¡n >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >

April 16, 2017

Pharo VM build for nix, was: Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6 snap install

by Luke Gorrie

I made a pull request from the work-in-progress branch where I am tweaking things to build the latest VM under nix: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm/pull/129 The tricky bit that I haven't confronted properly yet is the overlap between nix and mvm/zeroconf i.e. each one wants to be in charge of managing the shared library dependencies. I'd ideally like to handle the dependencies on the nix side and have a sufficient test suite to check that the VM+libs that I provide works with the popular images too. Is such a test suite available perhaps? But maybe I will need to build the exact same libraries as mvm does or even fall back to packaging binary releases of the VM instead of building them myself. (mvm script is not directly usable for reasons sketched in the PR.) On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 at 14:46, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > this belongs to pharo-dev, please continue there :) > > > On 15 Apr 2017, at 14:25, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 02:14:26PM +0200, Luke Gorrie wrote: > > On 15 April 2017 at 11:53, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > (actually, I'm not sure why you're bothering since 6 should > be out before the end of the month, but that's your choice :-)). > > > I just want something stable and reasonably modern for running existing > applications and building new ones. > > If that means waiting for Pharo 6.0 release then that is okay with me. > > > The (V6) linux install relies on a number of bash scripts to launch > pharo > (bin/pharo, bin/pharo-ui and bin/pharo-vm/pharo). How are you producing > these, or are you doing something else? > > > Here is where those scripts are generated in the existing pharo-vm > packaging: > https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/master/pkgs/development/pharo/vm/ > build-vm.nix#L50-L70 > > > Ahh, so Nix is doing its own thing, not using the ZeroConf scripts. > > > (I didn't write the nix packaging code but I have volunteered to maintain > it so > if it's out of date then I should fix that.) > > > It will be for V6. Esteban has changed the scripts to ensure that Pharo > versions of libraries are loaded (from memory)(this is also partly why I > would like to use the full build process). > > > git clone https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git > git checkout <the stable code...> > cd pharo-vm/opensmalltalk-vm/build.linux64x64/pharo.cog.spur/build > ./mvm > -- > > BTW: HEAD is currently eaf13db484ac87720d8454e66b5ce92f51c01036, and my > experience is that it is significantly less stable than the latest > binary, which is from 1c38b03fb043a2962f30f080db5b1292b5b7badb > > > This is really the bleeding edge :-) both of those commits were pushed > within > the past three days! > > > Yep, V6 is still in testing. :-) > > Cheers, > Alistair > > >

April 16, 2017

Iceberg and git repository management

by Peter Uhnak

Hi, is Iceberg (or its git subsytem) capable of more than just Pharo code management? More specifically, would it be possible with Iceberg to commit e.g. a change to a README.md or .travis.yml file in the repository? Thanks, Peter

April 16, 2017