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Fwd: Re: [Pharo-project] new to pharo

by Bill Schwab

Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029

May 31, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Replacing 'ReadStream on smth:' by 'smth readStream'

by Bill Schwab

Adrian, Fair enough. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> adi(a)netstyle.ch 05/31/08 4:55 AM >>> Hi Bill, Damien, I'm not against such refactorings at all. And I also know that stuff will break in the process. The only point I wanted to make is that those changes, especially if they touch a large code base, need to be done carefully. In the proposed change of #readStream, I assume Damien has thought about the consequences. As he noted in another mail, my example with Matrix indeed is not a problem. I just picked an implementor of #readStream to illustrate that such a change may not necessarily be behavior preserving. So, go ahead! Cheers, Adrian On May 30, 2008, at 22:46 , Bill Schwab wrote: > Stef, > > Whether or not I agree depends on what you mean. While I think I > see where Damien is going, my read is that #on: is actually > negotiable, given that we should be able to either fix (or simply > replace and than alias) ReadStream - two different ways of solving > the same problem. But if you concerned about breaking some things > that Damien and I are committed to fixing as part of the change, > then I submit that we will be helpless when we move from the > relatively calm world of streams to the chaos of morphic. > > Which part bothers you? > > The plan is to rennovate (sometimes messy) and *then* slowly evolve > the resulting stable system, right? > > Bill > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 846-1285 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > >>>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 5/30/2008 3:27:20 PM >>> > I agree with adrian. > For pharo we should move but we should also make sure it is really > stable. > > Stef > > On May 30, 2008, at 2:18 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > >> Have you verified that your change does not inadvertently modify any >> behavior? Its not likely, but changes like this can introduce subtle >> bugs. For instance, Matrix overrides readStream. So if there exists >> any use of "ReadStream on: aMatrix" that is there to bypass the >> overridden behavior, the code will break. >> >> Cheers, >> Adrian >> >> On May 30, 2008, at 10:47 , Damien Cassou wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I've just published in the pharo inbox a package for the System >>> category. This change has been generated automatically through the >>> rewriter: >>> >>> ParseTreeRewriter new >>> replace: 'ReadStream on: ``@object' with: '``@object readStream'; >>> yourself >>> >>> The formatting of the changed method is completely different due to >>> the use of the refactoring browser. This makes the diffs not >>> readable. >>> Even if it is a real problem, I don't see any simple solution. What >>> do >>> you think? >>> >>> -- >>> Damien Cassou >>> Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good >>> luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 31, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] new to pharo

by Alexandre Bergel

>> 3 - Load your .cs file > I can load the changeset .cs file from the file list ? Yep. >> 6 - add to your SLICE package all the packages that have a * before >> their name as required > Before I load my .cs, no package have a * before its name. This is good. If some package are dirty (i.e., prefixed with a *), then there is something wrong. > They are all up todate because of step 1, ok. > After my .cs loading, a lot of packages have *. (12 packages) > All these packages are touched by my update so all this packages > have to be declared as dependent package of my SLICE- > RemoveisMorphicMessage, isn't it ? > I guess yes. Exact. > I declare them as dependent by using the "add required package" menu > item on Monticello package list. > I guess yes You got exactly the idea. >> 7 - Save your SLICE package in PharoInBox > do I need a login/password ? > I guess no You should not need one. > Now, a question about the final update, this one that is made in > order to make a new pharo release. > How is it achieved ? Your change will be reviewed and then included in the next Pharo release if people are happy with what you did. Cheers, alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

May 31, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] new to pharo

by Alexandre Bergel

>> 1 - Take the latest pharo image, and click on update on the left tab >> 2 - Open Monticello >> 3 - Load your .cs file >> 4 - you should see some package with a * before them in Monticello >> 5 - Create a package named SLICE-Remove isMorphic message >> 6 - add to your SLICE package all the packages that have a * before >> their >> name as required >> 7 - Save your SLICE package in PharoInBox > I don't understand these instructions: > > How do you do step 6? what does adding packages to packages > mean? Right click or (command click if you're on a mac) on a package listed in a Monticello browser. you will see "add required package". Add all the packages that are prefixed by a * (resulting from loading your .cs file). > Slices sounds like MC2. Does Pharo use MC2? No. pharo uses MC1. We might switch to MC2 when it is ready, but for now we stick to something that is reliable. I hope this is clearer now. What Bill meant I guess is to add this information to a wiki. I will refine what is already written over the time. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

May 31, 2008

[Pharo-project] Re: [Sapphire-devl] sapphire to pharo :)

by Adrian Lienhard

Hi Stef, Today I tried again to load Pharo starting from a fresh 3.9.1 image but I got the same error when loading "10015-Sap- FixingInvisibleInTheRest..." (see my mail in this thread from May 16). I had a closer look and the problem is that script106 tries to load Protocols-sd.13.mcz, which does not exist in the repository. I guess the update worked for you because this file was in your local cache. Can you copy this package to the repository? Adrian On May 17, 2008, at 08:19 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Yes this may happen. We are certainly stressing the server. > Now #hex is really missing in 391. :) > > Stef > > On May 17, 2008, at 6:40 AM, Victor Rodriguez wrote: > >> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 12:14 AM, Victor Rodriguez >> <victor.palique(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> ... >>> It failed for me in update 10016. I attach the log. >> >> It must have been a network error, since started all over again and >> it >> is now in update 10020... >> >> Victor. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sapphire-devl mailing list >> Sapphire-devl(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sapphire-devl >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Sapphire-devl mailing list > Sapphire-devl(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sapphire-devl

May 31, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] new to pharo

by Alain Plantec

On Saturday 31 May 2008 01:31:52 Bill Schwab wrote: > I think this needs to be carved onto the side of a monument somewhere, > perhaps with a gigantic and stylized image of Avi or Colin smiting a > helpless enemy :) Hi Bill, I understand that people here are bored by such a question. The problem is that a newcomer don't really want to disturb this freshly installed procedure. It needs to be well understood before any upload. Maybe a lot of good works can be broken because of a bad manipulation. I do not want that other developpers have to spent time to repare my stupid upload. For now, 12 packages are impacted by my work. Please, do not answer like this to newcomers. Pharo is a very good thing, I will help but I can imagine that someone can give up because of a bad feeling after such an answer even if you think it's only a joke. > Failing that, perhaps it should go on a wiki?? It is already on the "How to contribute" wiki page. maybe you can help me understand Alexandre points. I only need confirmations. > 3 - Load your .cs file I can load the changeset .cs file from the file list ? > > 6 - add to your SLICE package all the packages that have a * before > their name as required Before I load my .cs, no package have a * before its name. They are all up todate because of step 1, ok. After my .cs loading, a lot of packages have *. (12 packages) All these packages are touched by my update so all this packages have to be declared as dependent package of my SLICE-RemoveisMorphicMessage, isn't it ? I guess yes. I declare them as dependent by using the "add required package" menu item on Monticello package list. I guess yes > 7 - Save your SLICE package in PharoInBox do I need a login/password ? I guess no Now, a question about the final update, this one that is made in order to make a new pharo release. How is it achieved ? thank in advance. Cheers Alain > > Bill > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 846-1285 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > > >>> alexandre(a)bergel.eu 5/30/2008 4:27:18 PM >>> > Hi Alain, > > I agree, the process is not that easy and intuitive. > > 1 - Take the latest pharo image, and click on update on the left tab > 2 - Open Monticello > 3 - Load your .cs file > 4 - you should see some package with a * before them in Monticello > 5 - Create a package named SLICE-Remove isMorphic message > 6 - add to your SLICE package all the packages that have a * before > their name as required > 7 - Save your SLICE package in PharoInBox > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > On 30 May 2008, at 20:39, Alain Plantec wrote: > > > > >>> ok, I'm starting by chasing all senders to the isMorphic message > > I've a .cs that touch a lot of methods everywhere**. > > now, what is the procedure ? > > can I put my .cs somewhere, give it to somebody, make a .mcz with > > it ? (I do not known how) > > sorry for all these stupid questions, I try to understand the update > > > process. > > thanks > > alain > > > > > > ** > > for all #isMorphic senders: > > "self isMorphic ifTrue: [XXXXX] ifFalse: [YYYYY]" > > is replaced with > > "XXXXX" > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > >

May 31, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Replacing 'ReadStream on smth:' by 'smth readStream'

by Adrian Lienhard

Hi Bill, Damien, I'm not against such refactorings at all. And I also know that stuff will break in the process. The only point I wanted to make is that those changes, especially if they touch a large code base, need to be done carefully. In the proposed change of #readStream, I assume Damien has thought about the consequences. As he noted in another mail, my example with Matrix indeed is not a problem. I just picked an implementor of #readStream to illustrate that such a change may not necessarily be behavior preserving. So, go ahead! Cheers, Adrian On May 30, 2008, at 22:46 , Bill Schwab wrote: > Stef, > > Whether or not I agree depends on what you mean. While I think I > see where Damien is going, my read is that #on: is actually > negotiable, given that we should be able to either fix (or simply > replace and than alias) ReadStream - two different ways of solving > the same problem. But if you concerned about breaking some things > that Damien and I are committed to fixing as part of the change, > then I submit that we will be helpless when we move from the > relatively calm world of streams to the chaos of morphic. > > Which part bothers you? > > The plan is to rennovate (sometimes messy) and *then* slowly evolve > the resulting stable system, right? > > Bill > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 846-1285 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > >>>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 5/30/2008 3:27:20 PM >>> > I agree with adrian. > For pharo we should move but we should also make sure it is really > stable. > > Stef > > On May 30, 2008, at 2:18 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > >> Have you verified that your change does not inadvertently modify any >> behavior? Its not likely, but changes like this can introduce subtle >> bugs. For instance, Matrix overrides readStream. So if there exists >> any use of "ReadStream on: aMatrix" that is there to bypass the >> overridden behavior, the code will break. >> >> Cheers, >> Adrian >> >> On May 30, 2008, at 10:47 , Damien Cassou wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I've just published in the pharo inbox a package for the System >>> category. This change has been generated automatically through the >>> rewriter: >>> >>> ParseTreeRewriter new >>> replace: 'ReadStream on: ``@object' with: '``@object readStream'; >>> yourself >>> >>> The formatting of the changed method is completely different due to >>> the use of the refactoring browser. This makes the diffs not >>> readable. >>> Even if it is a real problem, I don't see any simple solution. What >>> do >>> you think? >>> >>> -- >>> Damien Cassou >>> Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good >>> luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 31, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] new to pharo

by Matthew Fulmer

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 11:27:18PM +0200, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > Hi Alain, > > I agree, the process is not that easy and intuitive. > > 1 - Take the latest pharo image, and click on update on the left tab > 2 - Open Monticello > 3 - Load your .cs file > 4 - you should see some package with a * before them in Monticello > 5 - Create a package named SLICE-Remove isMorphic message > 6 - add to your SLICE package all the packages that have a * before their > name as required > 7 - Save your SLICE package in PharoInBox > I don't understand these instructions: How do you do step 6? what does adding packages to packages mean? Slices sounds like MC2. Does Pharo use MC2? -- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/

May 31, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] new to pharo

by Bill Schwab

I think this needs to be carved onto the side of a monument somewhere, perhaps with a gigantic and stylized image of Avi or Colin smiting a helpless enemy :) Failing that, perhaps it should go on a wiki?? Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> alexandre(a)bergel.eu 5/30/2008 4:27:18 PM >>> Hi Alain, I agree, the process is not that easy and intuitive. 1 - Take the latest pharo image, and click on update on the left tab 2 - Open Monticello 3 - Load your .cs file 4 - you should see some package with a * before them in Monticello 5 - Create a package named SLICE-Remove isMorphic message 6 - add to your SLICE package all the packages that have a * before their name as required 7 - Save your SLICE package in PharoInBox Cheers, Alexandre On 30 May 2008, at 20:39, Alain Plantec wrote: > >>> ok, I'm starting by chasing all senders to the isMorphic message > I've a .cs that touch a lot of methods everywhere**. > now, what is the procedure ? > can I put my .cs somewhere, give it to somebody, make a .mcz with > it ? (I do not known how) > sorry for all these stupid questions, I try to understand the update > process. > thanks > alain > > > ** > for all #isMorphic senders: > "self isMorphic ifTrue: [XXXXX] ifFalse: [YYYYY]" > is replaced with > "XXXXX" > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 30, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] new to pharo

by Alexandre Bergel

Hi Alain, I agree, the process is not that easy and intuitive. 1 - Take the latest pharo image, and click on update on the left tab 2 - Open Monticello 3 - Load your .cs file 4 - you should see some package with a * before them in Monticello 5 - Create a package named SLICE-Remove isMorphic message 6 - add to your SLICE package all the packages that have a * before their name as required 7 - Save your SLICE package in PharoInBox Cheers, Alexandre On 30 May 2008, at 20:39, Alain Plantec wrote: > >>> ok, I'm starting by chasing all senders to the isMorphic message > I've a .cs that touch a lot of methods everywhere**. > now, what is the procedure ? > can I put my .cs somewhere, give it to somebody, make a .mcz with > it ? (I do not known how) > sorry for all these stupid questions, I try to understand the update > process. > thanks > alain > > > ** > for all #isMorphic senders: > "self isMorphic ifTrue: [XXXXX] ifFalse: [YYYYY]" > is replaced with > "XXXXX" > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

May 30, 2008