- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Improving the GUI

by Adrian Lienhard

On Jul 26, 2008, at 11:21 , Lukas Renggli wrote: >> BTW, I've been investigating NiceFonts >> (http://www.jvuletich.org/NiceFonts.html) and I'm in >> contact with Juan who helped me with it > > I agree, these fonts look very pleasing to the eye. Yes, the quality is good. (Compared to the typeface in the screenshot, I'd prefer a monospace typeface, though.) > However as far as I understand the approach would break with any > unicode/internationalization effort. The world is not ASCII anymore. > It simply does not scale to have 95,221 glyphs for every font-family, > font-size, font-weight, etc. Or is there something I am overlooking? You are right in that this approach does not scale if we want to provide fonts for all scripts of the world. Its just makes sense for a few font sizes and families (3x3?). However, this is not the point. I just want to make a small step to have a more professional *default* font replacing the crappy one we have now, rather than finding an optimal solution. The fonts currently shipped with Squeak also do not support other scripts than latin. If you want to write your code in Thai, you have to install such a font first. NiceFonts is a hack. Nevertheless, it has the potential to provide an intermediate solution until we have FreeType support with sub-pixel antialiasing in the VM. Unfortunately, although people seem to have been working on this for several years now, it has been widely used nor has become part of the VM. NiceFonts just adds support to create new StrikeFonts, it does not prevent you from loading other fonts, so nothing needs to be sacrificed. Moreover, I want to be able to unload those fonts again to save memory for server images. I think it would be a mistake to wait until there is a perfect solution (this mistake has been done too often in the history of Squeak...). Unless somebody suggests a better alternative, I think we should figure out whether NiceFonts does the job or not. Damn, already talking again! ;) Cheers, Adrian

July 26, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Improving the GUI

by Lukas Renggli

> BTW, I've been investigating NiceFonts > (http://www.jvuletich.org/NiceFonts.html) and I'm in > contact with Juan who helped me with it I agree, these fonts look very pleasing to the eye. However as far as I understand the approach would break with any unicode/internationalization effort. The world is not ASCII anymore. It simply does not scale to have 95,221 glyphs for every font-family, font-size, font-weight, etc. Or is there something I am overlooking? Cheers, Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

July 26, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Improving the GUI

by Adrian Lienhard

Hi, One week has passed and 17 messages have been sent in this thread so far. I think we should stop talking and start producing results now! I propose to proceed as follows: - gather all ideas from the thread and organize them on a wiki page - pick a few ideas that have an impact and that can be realized in reasonable time - produce a sample image and screenshots to show it to the Pharo community to get feedback - push into the update stream Anybody interested to join a task force? Cheers, Adrian BTW, I've been investigating NiceFonts (http://www.jvuletich.org/NiceFonts.html ) and I'm in contact with Juan who helped me with it ___________________ http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/ On Jul 25, 2008, at 15:17 , Damien Pollet wrote: > On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:18 PM, cdrick <cdrick65(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> - do we really need those window controls, coming up with ctrl-left >>>> mouse? (rotate etc? halos?) >>> >>> Yes I always wanted to disable them. > > Still, it is nice to be able to go and inspect any visible objectâ¦ > probably a less intrusive UI than halos for this would be a looking > glass / pipette tool that would work like the one in the color palette > on Mac OS X: click the tool, click anywhere on the screen to choose > that pixel's color. Instead, the tool would switch modes for the > clicked window, from "interacting with the application through its UI > controls" to "visually editing composed morphs". > >> I find there are of no use for browsers... >> >> What I'd like instead of bringing halo is: >> -moving the browser (middle button), >> -change the size of the browser (bottom right expand) (CTRL- >> middle button) > > this is a little linuxish :) > > > -- > Damien Pollet > type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 26, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Browser and shortcut(s)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Me too alex :) > I am realizing that I did not get what was proposed. Why alt+b is > not enough?

July 25, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Browser and shortcut(s)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Yes! Stef On Jul 24, 2008, at 1:00 PM, Bill Schwab wrote: > Keyboard navigation would be great, but (unless I am missing > something) tab already has a full calendar. As crazy as all the > control/shift-tab, control-enter behavior might be, it's what users > expect for moving between fields. Note the exceptions for multi- > line edit fields, where tab and enter are of interest to the field > itself (hence control-, etc.). > > I recommend grabbing a copy of Dolphin CE to see how its keyboard > shortcuts work. > > Bill > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 846-1285 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > >>>> damien.cassou(a)gmail.com 07/24/08 12:26 AM >>> > On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 5:39 PM, cdrick <cdrick65(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi, as here everithing seems possible, Ihave three points to discuss >> >> 1) would people like to have shortcut for accessing the different >> pane >> of the browser ? Here is a mapping proposal: >> >> Esc to enter leave the mercury panel >> >> F1 Category/Package >> F2 Classes >> F3 method categories >> F4 methods >> ... >> tab to change the swith (instances ? class for instance) >> >> Enter to go to the code pane. >> >> What do you think ? Not sure easily feasible though > > > It would be a first interesting step. Please try. > > > -- > Damien Cassou > Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good > luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu) > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 25, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Browser and shortcut(s)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

What it important is that we can use a browser without the mouse. Now F1 F2.... are ok but may be the arrows are good for that. Like ctrl + arrows to navigate in the structure Stef On Jul 24, 2008, at 6:26 AM, Damien Cassou wrote: > On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 5:39 PM, cdrick <cdrick65(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi, as here everithing seems possible, Ihave three points to discuss >> >> 1) would people like to have shortcut for accessing the different >> pane >> of the browser ? Here is a mapping proposal: >> >> Esc to enter leave the mercury panel >> >> F1 Category/Package >> F2 Classes >> F3 method categories >> F4 methods >> ... >> tab to change the swith (instances ? class for instance) >> >> Enter to go to the code pane. >> >> What do you think ? Not sure easily feasible though > > > It would be a first interesting step. Please try. > > > -- > Damien Cassou > Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good > luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu) > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 25, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: Feedback

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

tx On Jul 23, 2008, at 4:50 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > I just updated ScriptLoader with this info. > > Alexandre > > > On 22 Jul 2008, at 22:01, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: David RÃ¶thlisberger <squeak(a)webcitas.ch> >>> Date: July 21, 2008 1:44:23 PM CEDT >>> To: OmniBrowser developers <ob-dev(a)wiresong.ca> >>> Subject: Re: Feedback >>> Reply-To: OmniBrowser developers <ob-dev(a)wiresong.ca> >>> >>> >>> >>>> could you publish a new complete list of packages and their >>>> versions? >>> >>> here it is: >>> >>> >>> Installer wiresong >>> project: 'ob'; >>> install: 'OmniBrowser-dr.413'; >>> install: 'OB-Morphic-dr.49'; >>> install: 'OB-Standard-dr.344'; >>> install: 'OB-Enhancements-dr.191'; >>> install: 'OB-Refactory-lr.85'. >>> >>> >>> David >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ob-dev mailing list >>> ob-dev(a)wiresong.ca >>> http://mail.wiresong.ca/mailman/listinfo/ob-dev >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 25, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Improving the GUI

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

This would be nice to give a try and see how we can live without them. Stef On Jul 23, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > And what about adding a preference to enable halos, which would be > turned off by default? > Adrian > > On Jul 23, 2008, at 14:59 , Bill Schwab wrote: > >> CÃ©drick, >> >> There is at least use for halos with browsers: figuring out how >> they were made. At times, I have resorted to see the types of >> morphs that were ignoring a customization I was trying to enforce. >> >> I would not suppress halos unless we have a tool along the lines of >> the following: >> >> http://www.idb.me.uk/idbsnoop.html >> >> >> Of course, one could compromise by toggling halos, perhaps based on >> the type of system window. Note that since SystemWindow is quite >> generic, we would either need to add sub-classes, or perhaps better >> some state to allow the test to work. Does that make any sense? >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> ========================== >> cdrick cdrick65 at gmail.com >> >> >>>> - do we really need those window controls, coming up with ctrl-left >>>> mouse? (rotate etc? halos?) >>> >>> Yes I always wanted to disable them. >>>> >> >> I find there are of no use for browsers... >> >> What I'd like instead of bringing halo is: >> -moving the browser (middle button), >> -change the size of the browser (bottom right expand) (CTRL- >> middle button) >> >> CÃ©drick >> >> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >> University of Florida >> Department of Anesthesiology >> PO Box 100254 >> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >> >> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >> Tel: (352) 846-1285 >> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 25, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Improving the GUI

by Damien Pollet

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:18 PM, cdrick <cdrick65(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> - do we really need those window controls, coming up with ctrl-left >>> mouse? (rotate etc? halos?) >> >> Yes I always wanted to disable them. Still, it is nice to be able to go and inspect any visible objectâ¦ probably a less intrusive UI than halos for this would be a looking glass / pipette tool that would work like the one in the color palette on Mac OS X: click the tool, click anywhere on the screen to choose that pixel's color. Instead, the tool would switch modes for the clicked window, from "interacting with the application through its UI controls" to "visually editing composed morphs". > I find there are of no use for browsers... > > What I'd like instead of bringing halo is: > -moving the browser (middle button), > -change the size of the browser (bottom right expand) (CTRL-middle button) this is a little linuxish :) -- Damien Pollet type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet

July 25, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Browser and shortcut(s)

by Alexandre Bergel

>>> 2) more simple >>> What about having "browse class" (alt + shift + b) and "browse >>> protocol" for an object (alt+shift+p) creates a link to a project >>> but... >> >> Why not having alt+b as it is now? I am realizing that I did not get what was proposed. Why alt+b is not enough? Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

July 24, 2008