- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Some clearifications

by Adrian Lienhard

Hi Mike, I agree. We have discussed this in one or two threads before, but it might not be obvious for people joining Pharo. At the moment there is only an alpha version of Pharo available, and as usual in an alpha phase, there exist known bugs and changes are introduced that may break. In other words, this is not a version you want to use to run a power plant. However, this is only a temporary situation. As soon as we produce a first stable release, we will maintain this release and apply critical bugfixes, but no new features are added. This will be the version that people should be able to depend on for the use of Pharo in production. At the same time a new unstable version will be started to continue the development of Pharo. I think, we could then have two update streams, one for the stable and one for the unstable version. Cheers, Adrian On Oct 7, 2008, at 00:07 , Michael Roberts wrote: > given what I consider to be constraints - and these are not complaints > at all, just observation which I am quite happy with > 1) 3 harvesters > 2) minimal software support for sophisticated branch or release > management > > I wonder if it would be better to put more effort into expectation > management amongst the community. i.e define and document what the > update stream represents, and what a 'release' represents. I think it > is fantastic we have an update stream. It shows progress, and allows > interested folk to test the integration by the harvesters and provide > feedback. I do not consider each update to be a 'release' or stable. > It is not blessed to me like updates that used to come out of Squeak > Central. To me it just shows progress, even if it introduces bugs. A > bug can be reported on the list/tracker, feedback can help the next > update. each step we move forwards, in a small controlled fashion. > > Perhaps once a milestone is reached, or some considered point in the > future - a release is declared and built. Perhaps people who don't > want to be on the development-edge do not update from the update > stream until a time that it is recommended. Updates are addictive I > find, but I have set my expectations and enjoy the progress. > > just my thoughts, I would prefer the harvesting and update process is > not complicated trying to satisfy too many requirements. From my > point of view it is important we can test the integration represented > in the update stream, since there should be a way that we can scale > the testing amongst a wider group outside the harvesters. > > It is perhaps interesing, (or not), that I was discussing something > similar with Yann the other day. We were talking about MCC and what > exactly it was - we did not really know. The next day a post on the > Seaside list mentioned the move to universes in that context and > constraints. Yann and I were wondering if it would be useful (or not) > to have a bit more of the model of Envy maps in Monticello. We did > not have any great ideas, just a feeling that Universes, MC, MCC, SM, > Squeak SVN etc just demonstrate many forces that pull the needs for > configuration management and version control in different directions. > I think trying to solve this general problem: updates, branches, > releases, backporting, distribution, approval, integration, etc is > just very hard. My suggestion with Pharo would not be to do anything > particularly clever at the moment as long as everyone knows what is to > be expected from the current process. That way we keep moving > forward without needing to reinvent too much in one go. > > cheers, > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 7, 2008

[Pharo-project] MethodFinder

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi marcus removed methodFinder and I understand the reasons (lot of list of old method selectors hardcoded and not maintained). Still I think that MethodFinder was a really cool tool. So is there somebody that would like to have a look and take an old pharo version, package MethodFinder and clean it. This would be great. Stef and Marcus

Oct. 7, 2008

RE: [Pharo-project] about idiots :)

by Ramon Leon

> > Try to stop thinking that making errors is bad. > > This is a christian ideology that may block your way of > looking at the > > world in a open way. > Not true at all. It might be a catholic ideology, but its not > christian. > > Christianity is about love, faith, and redemption. Not fear, > fear is the > opposite of faith. The whole point of christianity is to remove fear > from the equation, even the ultimate fear, fear of death. You mean except the fear of eternal damnation in hell, the fear of an all knowing God who spies on you constantly knowing everything you do and promising you will be held accountable for it all someday? No, I do believe Christianity is all about the fear! It has its virtues as well, but lets not deny that fear is a major component of Christianity. Of course, this has nothing to do with Pharo, but happy to take this offline! > Keith Ramon

Oct. 7, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] about idiots :)

by Keith Hodges

StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi marcus > > Try to stop thinking that making errors is bad. > This is a christian ideology that may block your way of looking at the > world in a open way. Not true at all. It might be a catholic ideology, but its not christian. Christianity is about love, faith, and redemption. Not fear, fear is the opposite of faith. The whole point of christianity is to remove fear from the equation, even the ultimate fear, fear of death. If you are a parent, would you want to provide a safe space to learn and grow, or to have your kids live in fear of making mistakes. I have counselled many perfectionists, and those who have suffered at the hands of same, over the past few years, and God, being a father, always tells them that it is ok to make mistakes, and not to be afraid. He is big enough to cover us and help us to work through the consequences of our mistakes should they occur. Given that emotional support, it is ok to make mistakes. > > So do not let you fun gets spoiled by this oversimplistic view on the > world. > Agreed one would not want to oversimplify by blaming some "ideology" for all our problems. Keith

Oct. 7, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] A .mcz of Pinesoft's accumulatedfixesapplicabletoPharo

by Gary Chambers

Latest with the method categories done approppriately for overrides... Regards, Gary. ----- Original Message ----- From: "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> To: "Pharo Development" <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] A .mcz of Pinesoft's accumulatedfixesapplicabletoPharo > Hi matthew > > I'm not sure the fixes of Gary and Simon were overrides. > But indeed this would be cool to have. > We will start to harvest some Kernel-Extension items > > Stef > > On Oct 7, 2008, at 6:31 PM, Matthew Fulmer wrote: > >> On Thu, Oct 02, 2008 at 11:44:21AM +0100, Gary Chambers wrote: >>> Indeed. I've poked around a bit and it doesn't pick up stuff in image >>> for >>> new packages it would seem. Only changes for previous versions of the >>> package being merged. I think it looks possible to change it to do so >>> though! >> >> http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7208 >> >> I'll look into it. I just rewrote the image snapshotting code, >> so I think I know what to do. >> >> The diff tool takes two snapshots and compares them. Image >> snapshots are built from the MethodReferences passed in from >> PackageInfo. To make a diff with overrides, the snapshot will >> have to additionally snapshot any methods or classes that appear >> in the compared package. That shouldn't be too hard. >> >> -- >> Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 7, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] A .mcz of Pinesoft's accumulatedfixesapplicableto Pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi matthew I'm not sure the fixes of Gary and Simon were overrides. But indeed this would be cool to have. We will start to harvest some Kernel-Extension items Stef On Oct 7, 2008, at 6:31 PM, Matthew Fulmer wrote: > On Thu, Oct 02, 2008 at 11:44:21AM +0100, Gary Chambers wrote: >> Indeed. I've poked around a bit and it doesn't pick up stuff in >> image for >> new packages it would seem. Only changes for previous versions of the >> package being merged. I think it looks possible to change it to do so >> though! > > http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7208 > > I'll look into it. I just rewrote the image snapshotting code, > so I think I know what to do. > > The diff tool takes two snapshots and compares them. Image > snapshots are built from the MethodReferences passed in from > PackageInfo. To make a diff with overrides, the snapshot will > have to additionally snapshot any methods or classes that appear > in the compared package. That shouldn't be too hard. > > -- > Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Oct. 7, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] A .mcz of Pinesoft'saccumulatedfixesapplicableto Pharo

by Gary Chambers

Should be useful, especially for Pharo (incoming pakage-less fixes). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Fulmer" <tapplek(a)gmail.com> To: <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] A .mcz of Pinesoft'saccumulatedfixesapplicableto Pharo > On Thu, Oct 02, 2008 at 11:44:21AM +0100, Gary Chambers wrote: >> Indeed. I've poked around a bit and it doesn't pick up stuff in image for >> new packages it would seem. Only changes for previous versions of the >> package being merged. I think it looks possible to change it to do so >> though! > > http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7208 > > I'll look into it. I just rewrote the image snapshotting code, > so I think I know what to do. > > The diff tool takes two snapshots and compares them. Image > snapshots are built from the MethodReferences passed in from > PackageInfo. To make a diff with overrides, the snapshot will > have to additionally snapshot any methods or classes that appear > in the compared package. That shouldn't be too hard. > > -- > Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 7, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] A .mcz of Pinesoft's accumulatedfixesapplicableto Pharo

by Matthew Fulmer

On Thu, Oct 02, 2008 at 11:44:21AM +0100, Gary Chambers wrote: > Indeed. I've poked around a bit and it doesn't pick up stuff in image for > new packages it would seem. Only changes for previous versions of the > package being merged. I think it looks possible to change it to do so > though! http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7208 I'll look into it. I just rewrote the image snapshotting code, so I think I know what to do. The diff tool takes two snapshots and compares them. Image snapshots are built from the MethodReferences passed in from PackageInfo. To make a diff with overrides, the snapshot will have to additionally snapshot any methods or classes that appear in the compared package. That shouldn't be too hard. -- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/

Oct. 7, 2008

[Pharo-project] Polymorph

by Gary Chambers

Just to let you know there are some newer versions on SqueakSource. Start of work on a "Watery 2" theme (more spotted cat like :-) ) using CompositeFillStyles with form-based graphics. A few other improvements too, check the version notes. Regards, Gary.

Oct. 7, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Changing the name of the Pharo mailing list

by Lukas Renggli

Super cool. Thank you! On 10/7/08, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> wrote: > Thanks, Alex! > Adrian > > > On Oct 7, 2008, at 11:21 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: > > > > I changed the title to Pharo Development > > > > Cheers, > > Alexandre > > > > > > On 7 Oct 2008, at 11:06, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > > > > > > sure give one string > > > > > > Stef > > > > > > On Oct 6, 2008, at 9:20 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > > > > > > > > > > How about "Pharo Development"? > > > > > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 6, 2008, at 6:09 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It currently is "An open mailing list to discuss any topics > related to an > > > > > > open-source Smalltalk" > > > > > > I would prefer "The genera-purpose Pharo developer list" or > something > > > > > > similar that is shorter and includes Pharo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > I currently only see "An open mailing ..." > > > > > > > > > > I guess with Adrian's suggestion I only see "The general-purpose > ..." > > > > > > > > > > I suggest something that starts with Pharo: "Pharo Developer List" > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Lukas > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Lukas Renggli > > > > > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Pharo-project mailing list > > > > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > www.tudorgirba.com/blog > > > > > > > > "Next time you see your life passing by, say 'hi' and get to know > her." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Pharo-project mailing list > > > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pharo-project mailing list > > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Oct. 7, 2008