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Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by Bill Schwab

Stef, This appears to be deliberate in the new OB tools. I'm all for it as a preference, but recommend disabling it as a default - it's a long way from error to open debugger, so a safe landing along the way is a good idea IMHO. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 12/20/08 11:52 AM >>> From my side this is not something intentional so may be this a preference somewhere. On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Bill Schwab wrote: > Hello all, > > One change I do not like is that errors bring up a debugger vs. > starting > with a notifier. Beyond a "we fear change" <g> reaction, it can get :) > > expensive if things are bad enough to create errors in rapid > succession. > Is there a preference I can set to get the previous behavior? > > Bill > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 273-6785 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by Bill Schwab

All I did was download the dev image, but you are probably correct about the OB tools. This was tried, fairly controversial, and quickly rejected on Dolphin some time back. It's fine until things get ugly, and can then end up tossing work in the trash. Being able to go straight to a debugger is great, but I think it is a poor choice for a default. The opportunity for a recursive meltdown increases dramatically, not to mention the performance hit if several try to open "all at once." Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> cdrick65(a)gmail.com 12/20/08 12:52 PM >>> > I never implemented the pre-debug window, because I hate this extra > click that I have to do every single time I get a debugger. +1 I have never found it interesting... moreover I often forget to close it, resize, select end then full debugger to resize again... > The pre-debug window could certainly be added, but I don't see any > benefit in doing so. In my opinion the pre-debugger is a remnant of > Smalltalk-80, where there was no full debugger yet. > > Lukas > > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 5:52 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> From my side this is not something intentional so may be this a >> preference somewhere. >> >> On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Bill Schwab wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> One change I do not like is that errors bring up a debugger vs. >>> starting >>> with a notifier. Beyond a "we fear change" <g> reaction, it can get >> >> :) >> >>> >>> expensive if things are bad enough to create errors in rapid >>> succession. >>> Is there a preference I can set to get the previous behavior? >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> >>> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >>> University of Florida >>> Department of Anesthesiology >>> PO Box 100254 >>> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >>> >>> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >>> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >>> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- CÃ©drick _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

> I never implemented the pre-debug window, because I hate this extra > click that I have to do every single time I get a debugger. +1 I have never found it interesting... moreover I often forget to close it, resize, select end then full debugger to resize again... > The pre-debug window could certainly be added, but I don't see any > benefit in doing so. In my opinion the pre-debugger is a remnant of > Smalltalk-80, where there was no full debugger yet. > > Lukas > > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 5:52 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> From my side this is not something intentional so may be this a >> preference somewhere. >> >> On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Bill Schwab wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> One change I do not like is that errors bring up a debugger vs. >>> starting >>> with a notifier. Beyond a "we fear change" <g> reaction, it can get >> >> :) >> >>> >>> expensive if things are bad enough to create errors in rapid >>> succession. >>> Is there a preference I can set to get the previous behavior? >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> >>> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >>> University of Florida >>> Department of Anesthesiology >>> PO Box 100254 >>> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >>> >>> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >>> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >>> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- CÃ©drick

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by Lukas Renggli

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> wrote: > I don't quite understand. When I do "1 foo" I get a notifier window > (the small one) and not the full debugger. I guess Bill is using the Dev-Image of Damien with OB-Tools loaded. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by Adrian Lienhard

I don't quite understand. When I do "1 foo" I get a notifier window (the small one) and not the full debugger. Adrian On Dec 20, 2008, at 17:52 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > From my side this is not something intentional so may be this a > preference somewhere. > > On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Bill Schwab wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> One change I do not like is that errors bring up a debugger vs. >> starting >> with a notifier. Beyond a "we fear change" <g> reaction, it can get > > :) > >> >> expensive if things are bad enough to create errors in rapid >> succession. >> Is there a preference I can set to get the previous behavior? >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >> University of Florida >> Department of Anesthesiology >> PO Box 100254 >> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >> >> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by Lukas Renggli

Bill, I guess you are using the dev-image of Damien with the OB-Tools loaded. This package replaces the original debugger with one based on OmniBrowser. I never implemented the pre-debug window, because I hate this extra click that I have to do every single time I get a debugger. Also I observed that it encourages beginners to just close the debugger and look for the code in the normal browser, instead of fixing the problem right away. The pre-debug window could certainly be added, but I don't see any benefit in doing so. In my opinion the pre-debugger is a remnant of Smalltalk-80, where there was no full debugger yet. Lukas On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 5:52 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > From my side this is not something intentional so may be this a > preference somewhere. > > On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Bill Schwab wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> One change I do not like is that errors bring up a debugger vs. >> starting >> with a notifier. Beyond a "we fear change" <g> reaction, it can get > > :) > >> >> expensive if things are bad enough to create errors in rapid >> succession. >> Is there a preference I can set to get the previous behavior? >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >> University of Florida >> Department of Anesthesiology >> PO Box 100254 >> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >> >> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Dec. 20, 2008

[Pharo-project] Issue tracker & dev images

by Michael Roberts

folks, I was looking at issue 364 which is a bug in the pharo-dev image. Have we defined what the bug process is for the dev image vs the core? I wasn't sure. I.e are we happy to collate both on the one tracker; do we have appropriate types; is it not expected; etc. thanks Mike

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

From my side this is not something intentional so may be this a preference somewhere. On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Bill Schwab wrote: > Hello all, > > One change I do not like is that errors bring up a debugger vs. > starting > with a notifier. Beyond a "we fear change" <g> reaction, it can get :) > > expensive if things are bad enough to create errors in rapid > succession. > Is there a preference I can set to get the previous behavior? > > Bill > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 273-6785 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] What does HODataBase do?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi piers this is not pervere we should do it part of our process this is just that the start of pharo is getting all our attention. On Dec 20, 2008, at 3:35 PM, Piers Cawley wrote: > So, because I'm perverse like that, and because it's there, I grabbed > Damian's latest dev-image and ran the Code Critics against everything > in the image. Once the bottom of my macbook had returned to a bearable > temperature, I started going through the results and found scads of > references to the "undeclared variable" HODataBase and other HO* > names, mostly in the OBEnriched family of classes. Does anyone have > any idea what's going on? No idea what is HO* Stef > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: could you sign the pharo license?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

So keith could you publish your code in WTF and MIT? Note that any code publish to the squeak mantis is MIT and not WTF Stef On Dec 20, 2008, at 3:27 PM, Michael Roberts wrote: > my feeling is that there should be a single license that is agreed to > and signed by everyone. I hate the fact that we are discussing > licenses. Given the mess that Squeak licensing got into I don't > propose there is any choice on the matter. Also, the documentation on > the web sites seems to be very clear on this matter. > > cheers, > > Mike > > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> > wrote: >> Hi Keith, >> >> Its nothing against your license (I think its cool). Its just that we >> initially decided that whoever contributes needs to sign the >> agreement. Like this, we will not have to discuss licenses over and >> over again. Now imagine, that every second Pharo contributor comes >> with his own license. Even if it is more liberal, it just adds >> complexity to the process and makes us discuss this topic, like we do >> now. I would prefer to fix a bug instead... >> >> Hence, if you could sign the "official" agreement, that would be >> great. >> >> Cheers, >> Adrian >> >> On Dec 20, 2008, at 13:09 , Keith Hodges wrote: >> >>> StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>>> now the questions are >>>> - is it really that difficult to agree for a project on a given >>>> simple license such as MIT? >>>> - I also hate licenses since they polute our lives but I just >>>> don't >>>> care and signed MIT >>>> - should we accept this kind of license (of course it is >>>> compatible >>>> with MIT) >>>> but this looks a door open to the mess. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure squeakers realized that after all the effort of >>>> yohsiki >>>> to get SqueakEtoys clean >>>> 3.11 could be WTFPL because keith commit on it. >>>> >>> Thats a complete load of rubbish. >> >>> No. 1 I dont see any need for profanity. >>> >>> No. 2 my licence is not like GNU, please dont say it is because you >>> will >>> just confuse people. >>> >>> Its freer than MIT because I don't care if you take my code and sell >>> it >>> as your own. You can even say you wrote it if you like. The >>> responsibility for what you do with it is yours not mine. >>> >>> Keith >>>> I'm quite convinced that they will boycott such a code. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 20, 2008