- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] That's a pharo!

by Alexandre Bergel

:-) Nice picture Alexandre On 14 Jan 2009, at 16:44, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: > It is where I am working http://crdp.ac-bordeaux.fr/cddp40/ > and it is a subliminal message ;-) > > > -- > http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Jan. 14, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Watery2

by Gary Chambers

Indeed, SoftSqueak seems to outperform StandardSqueak while looking nicer. Surprising really. A taxonomy of themes: StandardSqueak Variable colour Variable extents of morphs Mostly solid fills Standard borders SoftSqueak Variable colour Variable extent of morphs Mostly gradient fills Standard borders Vistary Variable colour (translucency) Variable extent of morphs Gradient fills with translucency Rounded borders (some performance impact) Watery Fixed colour Variable extent of morphs Gradient fills (mostly solid) Standard borders Watery2 Fixed colour Checkboxes/radios fixed size, fixed width scrollbars, general buttons now variable Gradient/form-based fills (mostly solid) Standard or no borders (fillstyle by forms) excepting focus morph. Regards, Gary. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hilaire Fernandes" <hilaire(a)ofset.org> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Watery2 > Recently (well just yesterday), I found SoftSqueak theme to be very > effective: CPU effective, nice looking and suitable for narrow > scrollbar to gain a few pixel in the line width. > > Hilaire > > > 2009/1/14 Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com>: >> The fonts are of your own choosing... the fonts used in eah theme are >> those >> specified in preferences. Watery uses plain labels, Vistary "fuzzy" ones >> (have an alpha redraw around then to help contrast). Vistary benefits >> from >> having a nice FreeType fonts (all themes do). The standard bitmapped ones >> can lead to illegibility dependent on font size. The fuzzy labels come at >> a >> performance cost, of course. 5 times the redraw for the label itself. I >> guess the colour/alpha of the edges could also be themed and (see later) >> user selectable at some point. >> >> As for colour scheme, Watery (and Watery2) take a consistent colour >> approach. Vistary, SoftSqueak and StandardSqueak use the window/model >> colours. Vistary, by virtue of increased use of translucency, will >> inevitable "tone-down" the rather brash standard Squeak colours for >> various >> windows. >> >> I feel we have a good spread of the potential available with the use of >> Polymorph. Of course nobody can be totally pleased any of the time... >> but, >> the potential is there. All feedback welcomed. Getting the more flexible >> fillstyles and borderstyles in has really helped with the possibilities >> for >> the look of morphs. >> >> For the moment some (theme based) settings are essentially hardcoded (you >> can change via inspectors, for instance, Watery's window colour). Once >> Settled I envisiage a Theme settings tool (won't take long, all that kind >> of >> thing has already been done for our ReportBuilder). >> >> I am slightly disappointed in the responses wrt sound themes... perhaps >> most >> people don't produced end-user applications! >> >> Thanks for the feedback. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bill Schwab" <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> >> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Watery2 >> >> >>> Gary, >>> >>> No argument here. I find Watery a little bright for my taste, but >>> suspect that will ease off when I set the background colors to my >>> preference. There are aspects of Vistary that I like, though at least >>> in the older versions that I have used more extensively, there is a >>> little bit of a performance hit, and the button text can be hard to >>> read. Given the choice between two non-ugly options, I will invariably >>> go for the snappy one over the eye candy. >>> >>> FWIW, I think one of the things I like most about Vistary is that the >>> notifiers and debuggers are easier to identify than they are in recent >>> Watery with OB. STV had really strong red notifiers, and I hated them. >>> The clay rose that eventually evolved in Squeak was nice because it drew >>> attention w/o being overpowering. I am _not_ saying we should regress - >>> I greatly appreciate what you have been doing. I will do something to >>> get my ledger green editors back, and might try a subtle toning of the >>> stack list in the debugger; I'd have to see it to know whether it is a >>> useful clue or something Steve Jobs would have erased from my disk :) >>> >>> Another plus on Vistary is that the title bar text ends up being easy to >>> read; Watery's title bar font seems a little thin to me. But, simply >>> thickening it might be too much?? >>> >>> Most of this is editorial background noise. You offer great options and >>> they will no doubt get better over time. Watery does appear to be >>> standing out as the leader right now. Whether that is because it is >>> truly more effective or simply because we have a lot of mac users giving >>> attention to it is largely irrelevant. >>> >>> Thanks for the making choice so difficult!!!! >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >>> University of Florida >>> Department of Anesthesiology >>> PO Box 100254 >>> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >>> >>> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >>> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >>> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> >>>>>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 01/14/09 1:18 PM >>> >>> Guess Watery2 will be the Pharo look-and-feel... not had any >>> correspondence >>> from Samuel for some time now... >>> >>> So, I'm focussing on Watery2 for the moment. The SVGs and exports do >>> take >>> some time. Square button corners next then the window controls >>> (experimented >>> with Vistary as proof-of-concept). >>> >>> Regards, Gary. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Jan. 14, 2009

[Pharo-project] That's a pharo!

by Hilaire Fernandes

It is where I am working http://crdp.ac-bordeaux.fr/cddp40/ and it is a subliminal message ;-) -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire

Jan. 14, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Watery2

by Hilaire Fernandes

Recently (well just yesterday), I found SoftSqueak theme to be very effective: CPU effective, nice looking and suitable for narrow scrollbar to gain a few pixel in the line width. Hilaire 2009/1/14 Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com>: > The fonts are of your own choosing... the fonts used in eah theme are those > specified in preferences. Watery uses plain labels, Vistary "fuzzy" ones > (have an alpha redraw around then to help contrast). Vistary benefits from > having a nice FreeType fonts (all themes do). The standard bitmapped ones > can lead to illegibility dependent on font size. The fuzzy labels come at a > performance cost, of course. 5 times the redraw for the label itself. I > guess the colour/alpha of the edges could also be themed and (see later) > user selectable at some point. > > As for colour scheme, Watery (and Watery2) take a consistent colour > approach. Vistary, SoftSqueak and StandardSqueak use the window/model > colours. Vistary, by virtue of increased use of translucency, will > inevitable "tone-down" the rather brash standard Squeak colours for various > windows. > > I feel we have a good spread of the potential available with the use of > Polymorph. Of course nobody can be totally pleased any of the time... but, > the potential is there. All feedback welcomed. Getting the more flexible > fillstyles and borderstyles in has really helped with the possibilities for > the look of morphs. > > For the moment some (theme based) settings are essentially hardcoded (you > can change via inspectors, for instance, Watery's window colour). Once > Settled I envisiage a Theme settings tool (won't take long, all that kind of > thing has already been done for our ReportBuilder). > > I am slightly disappointed in the responses wrt sound themes... perhaps most > people don't produced end-user applications! > > Thanks for the feedback. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Schwab" <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> > To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:07 PM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Watery2 > > >> Gary, >> >> No argument here. I find Watery a little bright for my taste, but >> suspect that will ease off when I set the background colors to my >> preference. There are aspects of Vistary that I like, though at least >> in the older versions that I have used more extensively, there is a >> little bit of a performance hit, and the button text can be hard to >> read. Given the choice between two non-ugly options, I will invariably >> go for the snappy one over the eye candy. >> >> FWIW, I think one of the things I like most about Vistary is that the >> notifiers and debuggers are easier to identify than they are in recent >> Watery with OB. STV had really strong red notifiers, and I hated them. >> The clay rose that eventually evolved in Squeak was nice because it drew >> attention w/o being overpowering. I am _not_ saying we should regress - >> I greatly appreciate what you have been doing. I will do something to >> get my ledger green editors back, and might try a subtle toning of the >> stack list in the debugger; I'd have to see it to know whether it is a >> useful clue or something Steve Jobs would have erased from my disk :) >> >> Another plus on Vistary is that the title bar text ends up being easy to >> read; Watery's title bar font seems a little thin to me. But, simply >> thickening it might be too much?? >> >> Most of this is editorial background noise. You offer great options and >> they will no doubt get better over time. Watery does appear to be >> standing out as the leader right now. Whether that is because it is >> truly more effective or simply because we have a lot of mac users giving >> attention to it is largely irrelevant. >> >> Thanks for the making choice so difficult!!!! >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >> University of Florida >> Department of Anesthesiology >> PO Box 100254 >> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >> >> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >> >>>>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 01/14/09 1:18 PM >>> >> Guess Watery2 will be the Pharo look-and-feel... not had any >> correspondence >> from Samuel for some time now... >> >> So, I'm focussing on Watery2 for the moment. The SVGs and exports do >> take >> some time. Square button corners next then the window controls >> (experimented >> with Vistary as proof-of-concept). >> >> Regards, Gary. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire

Jan. 14, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Watery2

by Gary Chambers

The fonts are of your own choosing... the fonts used in eah theme are those specified in preferences. Watery uses plain labels, Vistary "fuzzy" ones (have an alpha redraw around then to help contrast). Vistary benefits from having a nice FreeType fonts (all themes do). The standard bitmapped ones can lead to illegibility dependent on font size. The fuzzy labels come at a performance cost, of course. 5 times the redraw for the label itself. I guess the colour/alpha of the edges could also be themed and (see later) user selectable at some point. As for colour scheme, Watery (and Watery2) take a consistent colour approach. Vistary, SoftSqueak and StandardSqueak use the window/model colours. Vistary, by virtue of increased use of translucency, will inevitable "tone-down" the rather brash standard Squeak colours for various windows. I feel we have a good spread of the potential available with the use of Polymorph. Of course nobody can be totally pleased any of the time... but, the potential is there. All feedback welcomed. Getting the more flexible fillstyles and borderstyles in has really helped with the possibilities for the look of morphs. For the moment some (theme based) settings are essentially hardcoded (you can change via inspectors, for instance, Watery's window colour). Once Settled I envisiage a Theme settings tool (won't take long, all that kind of thing has already been done for our ReportBuilder). I am slightly disappointed in the responses wrt sound themes... perhaps most people don't produced end-user applications! Thanks for the feedback. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Schwab" <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Watery2 > Gary, > > No argument here. I find Watery a little bright for my taste, but > suspect that will ease off when I set the background colors to my > preference. There are aspects of Vistary that I like, though at least > in the older versions that I have used more extensively, there is a > little bit of a performance hit, and the button text can be hard to > read. Given the choice between two non-ugly options, I will invariably > go for the snappy one over the eye candy. > > FWIW, I think one of the things I like most about Vistary is that the > notifiers and debuggers are easier to identify than they are in recent > Watery with OB. STV had really strong red notifiers, and I hated them. > The clay rose that eventually evolved in Squeak was nice because it drew > attention w/o being overpowering. I am _not_ saying we should regress - > I greatly appreciate what you have been doing. I will do something to > get my ledger green editors back, and might try a subtle toning of the > stack list in the debugger; I'd have to see it to know whether it is a > useful clue or something Steve Jobs would have erased from my disk :) > > Another plus on Vistary is that the title bar text ends up being easy to > read; Watery's title bar font seems a little thin to me. But, simply > thickening it might be too much?? > > Most of this is editorial background noise. You offer great options and > they will no doubt get better over time. Watery does appear to be > standing out as the leader right now. Whether that is because it is > truly more effective or simply because we have a lot of mac users giving > attention to it is largely irrelevant. > > Thanks for the making choice so difficult!!!! > > Bill > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 273-6785 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > >>>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 01/14/09 1:18 PM >>> > Guess Watery2 will be the Pharo look-and-feel... not had any > correspondence > from Samuel for some time now... > > So, I'm focussing on Watery2 for the moment. The SVGs and exports do > take > some time. Square button corners next then the window controls > (experimented > with Vistary as proof-of-concept). > > Regards, Gary. > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Jan. 14, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Watery2

by Bill Schwab

Gary, No argument here. I find Watery a little bright for my taste, but suspect that will ease off when I set the background colors to my preference. There are aspects of Vistary that I like, though at least in the older versions that I have used more extensively, there is a little bit of a performance hit, and the button text can be hard to read. Given the choice between two non-ugly options, I will invariably go for the snappy one over the eye candy. FWIW, I think one of the things I like most about Vistary is that the notifiers and debuggers are easier to identify than they are in recent Watery with OB. STV had really strong red notifiers, and I hated them. The clay rose that eventually evolved in Squeak was nice because it drew attention w/o being overpowering. I am _not_ saying we should regress - I greatly appreciate what you have been doing. I will do something to get my ledger green editors back, and might try a subtle toning of the stack list in the debugger; I'd have to see it to know whether it is a useful clue or something Steve Jobs would have erased from my disk :) Another plus on Vistary is that the title bar text ends up being easy to read; Watery's title bar font seems a little thin to me. But, simply thickening it might be too much?? Most of this is editorial background noise. You offer great options and they will no doubt get better over time. Watery does appear to be standing out as the leader right now. Whether that is because it is truly more effective or simply because we have a lot of mac users giving attention to it is largely irrelevant. Thanks for the making choice so difficult!!!! Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 01/14/09 1:18 PM >>> Guess Watery2 will be the Pharo look-and-feel... not had any correspondence from Samuel for some time now... So, I'm focussing on Watery2 for the moment. The SVGs and exports do take some time. Square button corners next then the window controls (experimented with Vistary as proof-of-concept). Regards, Gary. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Jan. 14, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Merging tool and class var

by Gary Chambers

Which reminds me to make some time for working out the diffences between Pharo and Squeak so as to have the dissimilar methods packaged separately for each (generally Widgets stuff). Perhaps Marcus can provide me with a list of the things he merges manually... Reagrds, Gary. ----- Original Message ----- From: "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Merging tool and class var > excellent I will produce a new version. > > On Jan 14, 2009, at 3:35 PM, Gary Chambers wrote: > >> On SqueakSource. Polymorph-Widgets-gvc.26 (mostly Watery2 >> enhancements) and >> Polymorph-Tools-Diff-gvc.8 (should deal with all the current >> feedback). >> >> Regards, Gary. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lukas Renggli" <renggli(a)gmail.com> >> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:15 PM >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Merging tool and class var >> >> >>>> Indeed. Just finished for class-side definition changes, comment and >>>> commentStamp... >>>> Putting up on SqueakSource shortly. >>> >>> Great! >>> >>> Lukas >>> >>> -- >>> Lukas Renggli >>> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Jan. 14, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Merging tool and class var

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

excellent I will produce a new version. On Jan 14, 2009, at 3:35 PM, Gary Chambers wrote: > On SqueakSource. Polymorph-Widgets-gvc.26 (mostly Watery2 > enhancements) and > Polymorph-Tools-Diff-gvc.8 (should deal with all the current > feedback). > > Regards, Gary. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lukas Renggli" <renggli(a)gmail.com> > To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:15 PM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Merging tool and class var > > >>> Indeed. Just finished for class-side definition changes, comment and >>> commentStamp... >>> Putting up on SqueakSource shortly. >> >> Great! >> >> Lukas >> >> -- >> Lukas Renggli >> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Jan. 14, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Watery2

by Alexandre Bergel

Excellent! Alexandre On 14 Jan 2009, at 15:18, Gary Chambers wrote: > Guess Watery2 will be the Pharo look-and-feel... not had any > correspondence > from Samuel for some time now... > > So, I'm focussing on Watery2 for the moment. The SVGs and exports do > take > some time. Square button corners next then the window controls > (experimented > with Vistary as proof-of-concept). > > Regards, Gary. > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Jan. 14, 2009

[Pharo-project] Watery2

by Gary Chambers

Guess Watery2 will be the Pharo look-and-feel... not had any correspondence from Samuel for some time now... So, I'm focussing on Watery2 for the moment. The SVGs and exports do take some time. Square button corners next then the window controls (experimented with Vistary as proof-of-concept). Regards, Gary.

Jan. 14, 2009