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Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] newDelta >0 failed in sqUnixMemory -- Was Re: Incompatibility between Pharo and Seasidehosting

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

creating a unix vm. stef On Mar 4, 2009, at 5:34 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > 2009/3/4 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> may be we should slowly think that we should get some people > > err.. get people for what? > >> - Show quoted text - >> On Mar 4, 2009, at 4:25 PM, Bruce O'Neel wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> There seem to be three solutions (in best to worst order). >>> >>> - someone (Ian maybe) needs to rebuild the Unix VM with a VMMaker >>> from within the last two years. Apparently the bug has been fixed >>> for a >>> while. >>> >>> - pass a fixed memory size to the VM >>> >>> -memory 200m >>> >>> or so does the trick. >>> >>> - patch the existing C source code. >>> >>> cheers >>> >>> bruce >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 09:19:13AM +0100, Tudor Girba wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I am not sure I got the summary of the discussion related to the >>>> problem of deploying a Pharo-based image to seasidehosting. Is >>>> there >>>> any conclusion? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of >>>> problem understanding." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 4, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] [ANN] Preference pragmas

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi alain > Hi all, > Here is a Preference engine based on pragma. > please, check it and tell me if it is ok or not. > If you prefer squeak version, this will be difficult :) I reread all the emails you exchanged with gary and igor. What is a parentNode in AbtsractPreferenceValue? This is when you have a composite preference? I understood when reading the code of PrefProvider2 > no problem but tell me > that I stop working on this. > > The set of system preferences constitutes a tree of preferences. > The model for the tree is implemented by the PreferenceNode hierarchy. > (see PrefCore2). This is the only mandatory part. > The tree can be visualized with a PreferenceTree UI built on top of > PrefCore2 (see PrefTool2 and snapshot). > Examples of preference declaration are given in PrefProvider2. > in order to open the tree: > PreferenceTree open I have two naive questions: - I imagine that we will be able to reuse the Preference browser and that we do not have to rebuild one? because the pragma preference collector could be put there? Or is it better to rewrite everything? - second I was wondering why you only use <preference> and not <preference:zork:> like in andreas solution? Gary mentioned that some objects can be more complex than mere literal. I was wondering if for the interface it would not be better to have cascaded selector instead of methods with multiple argument. PreferenceNode name: 'HTTP proxy' description: 'http proxy name and port' parent: #networkPreferenceNode vs PreferenceNode new name: 'HTTP proxy' ; description: 'http proxy name and port' ; parent: #networkPreferenceNode So can I summarize your approach as follow? - packages can defined locally their preferences (by construction this will be better since people will have to think about preferences value as their stuff. not the one of preference so this will help the flow to be local --- good. - preferences are not centralized anymore (youpi) - tools can register to get notified when preferences changes - preferences can be complex objects - preferences are structured in preferences tree. Sounds cool to me. I will let the other give their point of view. I'm leaving on vacation now. Stef PS: test should be "self test" PrefChangeListener new inspect. UIPreferences gradientButtonLook value: UIPreferences gradientButtonLook value not. UIPreferences gradientButtonLook value: UIPreferences gradientButtonLook value not. UIPreferences gradientButtonLook value: UIPreferences gradientButtonLook value not.

March 4, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: On the OTDebugger...

by Dale Henrichs

----- "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: | So we should proceed that way: | - Put a big warning + the expression to switch debugger in the pharo- | | dev | - then we follow what dale is saying | - I will produce a list of important features we need to have | -- copy stack | -- chase pointer | ... in OT For 'copy stack', check out 'error report' in OB-Tools-dkh.65. Part of the error report is a stack dump ... I could change the name and/or produce only a stack. Dale

March 4, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Mac Carbon VM 4.0.0b1 Closure Compiler Aware with Alien support

by Adrian Lienhard

Do the major VMs (Unix, Mac, Win) support this *now*? What is the required work to include the closure changes (are they published somewhere?)? I'd like to avoid that we get a dependency on VMs that would delay version 1.0. If everything is ready, though, I would also vote for including them now. Cheers, Adrian On Mar 4, 2009, at 17:25 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi pharoers > > what do we do with the closure compiler? > Do we integrate it now or in 1.1 > > Stef > > On Mar 3, 2009, at 6:48 AM, John M McIntosh wrote: > >> Yes it compiles, yes after a bit of poking I could take a Squeak3.9- >> final-7067.image and build a closure aware image. >> No I could not do that without poking a bit, however I hope that >> we'll >> resolve the problems in a day or two. >> >> Yes, I could take a Pharo0.1Core-10243.image and after more poking >> could generate a closure aware Pharo image. >> >> At this time the 4.0.0b1 VM is not publicly available, another day or >> two of cross checking is required, I've asked the Pharo >> team to review my changes and the changes from Eliot. I've also asked >> Eliot to supply some fixes so we can recompile >> the Squeak3.9-final-7067 image without problems. >> >> I cannot speak for the 3.10 or 3.11 images, other parties will need >> to >> pursue any work to make them closure aware. >> >> Tomorrow I'll poke at making the iPhone VM closure aware, however any >> iPhone image relies on the Pharo team resolving >> what the change sets should be to make the image closure aware. >> >> -- >> = >> = >> = >> = >> = >> = >> ===================================================================== >> John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> >> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http:// >> www.smalltalkconsulting.com >> = >> = >> = >> = >> = >> = >> ===================================================================== >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 4, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] A point a.k.a excuse to you

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

2009/3/4 Keith Hodges <keith_hodges(a)yahoo.co.uk>: > Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> Keith, >> >> I have never met Stef; I know him only through correspondence, direct and otherwise. Â Come to think of it, I probably know him pretty well. Â I *never* got any sense that he was the problem with Squeak. Â I don't buy it; I saw him trying to fix the problems I have described, and failing that, he started Pharo. >> >> Bill >> > I didnt say that he "was" the problem. I said he was the custodian of > the process (one development team bottleneck) that you called a black hole. I saw them more as prisoners, not custodians... you can object in Pharo, it's the same as squeak but... not the same size, same interests and again... a quick decision process, quick integration... Let's see what BPP will do but meanwhile, I'm happy with the reactivity... last one for me on this thread... time to go ;) bye > > Keith > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- CÃ©drick

March 4, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] [ANN] Preference pragmas

by Alain Plantec

Argh, I forgot to say that, for one preference, only one method must be written. example for gradientButtonLook: UIPreferences>>gradientButtonLook <preference> ^ GradientButtonLook ifNil: [GradientButtonLook := PreferenceValue name: 'Gradient look for buttons' description: 'Gradient look for buttons' parent: #uiPreferenceNode type: #Boolean default: false] You can note the use of a minimal pragma form. We finally prefered objects over flat pragma declaration. This allow the use of a composite pattern for the tree and for one-to-many preference declaration. As an example: UIPreferences>>themePreference <preference> ^ ThemePreference ifNil: [ThemePreference := MultiplePreferenceValue name: 'UITheme' description: 'The theme to use for UI look and feel' parent: #uiPreferenceNode type: #UITheme default: UIThemeWatery2 values: { FixedPreferenceValue name: 'Standard Squeak' description: 'Standard Squeak style' type: #UITheme value: UIThemeStandardSqueak. FixedPreferenceValue name: 'Watery 2' description: 'Similar to a nice OS' type: #UITheme value: UIThemeWatery2}] You can also have range: FreeTypePreferences>>glyphContrast <preference> ^ GlyphContrast ifNil: [GlyphContrast := RangePreferenceValue name: 'Glyph contrast' description: 'Change the contrast level for glyphs. This is an integer between 1 and 100. (the default value is 50)' parent: #freeTypePreferenceNode type: #Integer default: 50 range: (1 to: 100)] Multiple and range preference value are not so easy to describe well if we only make use of literals (pragma constraint). Other point, how to use preferences. Example of a preference reading and changing: gradientLook := UIPreferences gradientButtonLook value. UIPreferences gradientButtonLook value: true. Last but not least point is that it provides system level preference change notification. to see it in action, load PrefListener2 package (the version I have attached to this mail, previous version was not ok) Cheers alain Alain Plantec a Ã©crit : > Hi all, > Here is a Preference engine based on pragma. > please, check it and tell me if it is ok or not. > If you prefer squeak version, no problem but tell me > that I stop working on this. > > The set of system preferences constitutes a tree of preferences. > The model for the tree is implemented by the PreferenceNode hierarchy. > (see PrefCore2). This is the only mandatory part. > The tree can be visualized with a PreferenceTree UI built on top of > PrefCore2 (see PrefTool2 and snapshot). > Examples of preference declaration are given in PrefProvider2. > in order to open the tree: > PreferenceTree open. > Thank to Gary for its help. > > cheers > alain > >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 4, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Mac Carbon VM 4.0.0b1 Closure Compiler Aware with Alien support

by Igor Stasenko

2009/3/4 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > Hi pharoers > > what do we do with the closure compiler? > Do we integrate it now or in 1.1 > in 0.1 :) > Stef > - Show quoted text - > On Mar 3, 2009, at 6:48 AM, John M McIntosh wrote: > >> Yes it compiles, yes after a bit of poking I could take a Squeak3.9- >> final-7067.image and build a closure aware image. >> No I could not do that without poking a bit, however I hope that we'll >> resolve the problems in a day or two. >> >> Yes, I could take a Pharo0.1Core-10243.image and after more poking >> could generate a closure aware Pharo image. >> >> At this time the 4.0.0b1 VM is not publicly available, another day or >> two of cross checking is required, I've asked the Pharo >> team to review my changes and the changes from Eliot. I've also asked >> Eliot to supply some fixes so we can recompile >> the Â Squeak3.9-final-7067 image without problems. >> >> I cannot speak for the 3.10 or 3.11 images, other parties will need to >> pursue any work to make them closure aware. >> >> Tomorrow I'll poke at making the iPhone VM closure aware, however any >> iPhone image relies on the Pharo team resolving >> what the change sets should be to make the image closure aware. >> >> -- >> = >> = >> = >> = >> = >> ====================================================================== >> John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> >> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. Â http:// >> www.smalltalkconsulting.com >> = >> = >> = >> = >> = >> ====================================================================== >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

March 4, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] A point a.k.a excuse to you

by Keith Hodges

Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Keith, > > I have never met Stef; I know him only through correspondence, direct and otherwise. Come to think of it, I probably know him pretty well. I *never* got any sense that he was the problem with Squeak. I don't buy it; I saw him trying to fix the problems I have described, and failing that, he started Pharo. > > Bill > I didnt say that he "was" the problem. I said he was the custodian of the process (one development team bottleneck) that you called a black hole. Keith

March 4, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] What's the problem people? :)

by Igor Stasenko

2009/3/4 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> Hi Pharaos (and Squeak-dev)! :) > > Hi goran > > are you planning to come finally to esug that we drink beer together? > This year there will > be a wine tasting social event :) > I hope i can join you :) >> Alert to Pharaos: This is a cross post! (hehe) >> >> I just wanted to say (for whatever that is worth) that I like Pharo. >> And >> I like Squeak.org. And I like everyone doing stuff in/for/on >> Squeak/Pharo/Smalltalk/Huemul whatever. >> >> I have Pharo on my disk. I just started playing in it for a toy >> project >> involving RB AST, RoelTyper etc. > > I got (not tested) a new visitor for RB AST (elf on squeaksource) > >> But I do all Gjallar work on 3.10.2/LPF right now, it takes time >> moving >> a large project to a different baseline, so Gjallar will probably be >> on >> 3.10.2 for a while. But nothing prevents us from testing out Pharo >> later >> on - whatever works the best I say. Gjallar is also 95% ported to GS >> these days. > > sounds good. > >> I agree with Keith/Matthew that making good tools that can *span* >> different forks/communities *must* be a good thing for us all to have. >> All tools don't need to be spanning, but it doesn't hurt if *some* >> are - >> right? > > Exact. This is why I wrote a chapter on Installer for the new pharo > book :) > >> I *also* agree with Pharo people that hey, Pharo is a fork - we/you >> can >> do whatever we/you like! And that is good - it's the strength of >> Pharo. >> If Pharo diverts too much in "base stuff" it might turn into a >> weakness >> - but we just don't know these things, it is still to be seen. > > Exact > >> It is all about balance, benefits, etc. And we don't need to get angry >> with each other do we? :) Trust me, it just burns your energy! > > Exact this is why we did pharo :) > to stop arguing but doing instead: but you know us :) > >> I have code that seems to be doing fine in Pharo - SocketStream >> comes to >> mind. > > :) the power of MIT :) > In fact I do not know. > >> I know Pharo seem to be more inclined to use Universes than SM - >> fine with me, no problem. >> >> I hope to move SM forward in some way, and I hope it can still be >> loaded/used from within Pharo - even if it gets thrown out soon (I >> think >> I read something about that). > Yes I read that too :) > >> I also intend to use both Pharo, Squeak or >> whatever works best for my different tasks. > > Ok if you want to have some feedback on SM we can take that offline. > >> And finally I hope to revive DeltaStreams and make that work in >> Pharo as >> well as most other Squeak flavors. >> >> We are all Squeakers, right? :) >> >> regards, GÃ¶ran >> >> PS. I am not sure why I am so damn cheerful, > > May be you were always like that ;) I do not know I was kind not that > cheerful most of the > time :) > >> perhaps it is the SURGE I >> seem to feel in the Squeak community - so many things going on all >> over >> the place... ;) > > I do not know. We just started to move and to move at our pace > with a shared vision built on our past experience and communication. > Even our name and logo > means what we want to build: a warm beam of light in dark tempest nights > where any Smalltalker can find a place if he wants. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

March 4, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] A point a.k.a excuse to you

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Keith, The water is warm, but you will find us determined to fix what bugs us. If you accuse us of snubbing contributions, you miss the spirit of a much needed cleaning. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Keith Hodges Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:21 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] A point a.k.a excuse to you Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Keith, > > Call it Squeak or Pharo, I (and apparently many others here) want a clean Smalltalk. Kernel+packages is fine; I could also live with a well-factored big image from which I simply chop out things I do not need. If the system is good, I will adapt to the ways people chose to give it to me. > > You apparently want Squeak. No I dont want squeak, I want an environment in which contributions and concepts are appreciated, and shareable. I want this "not invented here" attitude scrapped. To be clear, I wrote SUnit-improved 3 years ago. I wasn't so arrogant as to say it is "The" SUnit. that everyone should use, I offered it as an alternativeand it has remained loadable from universes. The code may not be perfect but the concepts were perfectly reasonable: 1. Non GUI Test Runner, for use in an automated remote build system. 2. Classification of tests - for a world in which there are different forks images etc so that test suites can be a shared knowledge base of what works where. 3. A flexible test suite building interface that can be used to run other test suites like SSpec within the same tools. 4. A Cleaner Organisation under the category "Testing" e.g. "Testing-Common, Testing-Commmon-GUI, Testing-SUnit-Tests, Testing-SSpec-Tests etc. So... along comes pharo, and without any discussion at all in the general SUnit users forum, starts to "do their own thing with SUnit". Well thanks for nothing, it really makes you feel like contributing. Its not squeak that is the black hole, squeak isn't actively snubbing contributions. Keith _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 4, 2009