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Re: [Pharo-project] why can't I file out a package?

by Oscar Nierstrasz

Yeah, of course I have the fileout hiding inside my mcz file in the package-cache, but santa should help out here. Anyway, thanks for confirming the fail. - on On 26 Mar 2009, at 23:25, Michael Rueger wrote: > On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Oscar Nierstrasz > <oscar(a)iam.unibe.ch> wrote: >> >> I can file out a class, but not a package it seems. Should this be an >> issue, or am I missing something? > > In general there seems to be the notion in MC that there is no easy > way to file out things. What I would have liked to have while working > on the unicode release is the ability to file out changes between > packages. > > Santa? ;-) > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] why can't I file out a package?

by Michael Rueger

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Oscar Nierstrasz <oscar(a)iam.unibe.ch> wrote: > > I can file out a class, but not a package it seems. Should this be an > issue, or am I missing something? In general there seems to be the notion in MC that there is no easy way to file out things. What I would have liked to have while working on the unicode release is the ability to file out changes between packages. Santa? ;-) Michael

March 26, 2009

[Pharo-project] why can't I file out a package?

by Oscar Nierstrasz

I can file out a class, but not a package it seems. Should this be an issue, or am I missing something? - on

March 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] call for mcm support in Squeaksource

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 1:40 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > > > MCM = monticello configuration maps (you can open a Monticello > > Configurations browser from the world menu) > > > > But the more interesting question is who is Santa and will he > > find the time to update squeaksource? ;) > I don't know, but perhaps this is "fixed" in new Monticello 1.6 and sourcetalk. I would love to have this working on pharo :) I see it's in milestone 3 o 4 I don't remember. Cheers, Mariano > > I have some ideas :) > > stef > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] call for mcm support in Squeaksource

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> MCM = monticello configuration maps (you can open a Monticello > Configurations browser from the world menu) > > But the more interesting question is who is Santa and will he > find the time to update squeaksource? ;) I have some ideas :) stef

March 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [vwnc] Would you start a new Smalltalk?project today?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Sig, That's an interesting view of it, but I generally see it differently. "Good" threads are independent. They do things that are either truly separate tasks, or work on something lengthy and "report back" when it is finished. Being heavily rooted in engineering mechanics and having become something of an amateur grease monkey (hopefully one who knows his limits), I often visualize threads as gears with the stack pointer as a timing mark near the edge. The critical sections come into play only when the teeth might collide. It is a flawed analogy, but keeps me grounded. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Igor Stasenko Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:33 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [vwnc] Would you start a new Smalltalk?project today? 2009/3/26 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>: > To call threaded code incomprehensible is to ignore many appropriate uses of them. Â The presumption is that software is thrown together and then made to work, rather than engineered to work correctly from the bottom up. Â Rather than focusing to exclusion on the non-determinism of threading, the author should also consider the independence of the individual threads; threads that do one thing and do it well can be far simpler than code that chops lengthy processes into small chunks that can be executed in sequence. > > At the risk of sounding prematurely curmudgeonly, I have used both approaches over time (using slicing when threads were not available to me). Â I would much rather face an over-protected (hence deadlocking) multi-threaded program than try to sort out a single-threaded switch statement from hell that tries to do the same job. Â Of course, I come at this with a Smalltalk bias, where finding the deadlock is often as simple as following a stack trace to an offending critical section. Â Dirty writes are a bear in any language, but my general approach is "don't make that mistake." Â It works for me. > Been there did that.. i especially run to a problem with deadlocking, ended up with coding a classes which enforcing the right order of entering the critical sections i.e. you can't enter the critical section B, if you previously not entered into critical section A. This works, of course, but not an elegant neither scalable.. because it leads to the point where you can simply have a single global critical section to be protected from all contention cases :) > Bill > > --- > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > bschwab AT anest DOT ufl DOT edu > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of > Michael van der Gulik > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:39 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [vwnc] Would you start a new Smalltalk?project today? > > On 3/26/09, Markus Fritsche <fritsche.markus(a)gmx.net> wrote: >> Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> | array sum1 sum2 | >>> sum1 := 0. sum2 := 0. >>> array := Array new: 10. >>> [ 1 to: 10000000 do: [ :i | array at: (10 random) put: (Array new: >>> 10) ] ] fork. >>> [ 1 to: 10000000 do: [ :i | array at: (10 random) put: (Array new: >>> 10) ] ] fork. >>> 1 to: 10000000 do: [ :i | array at: (10 random) put: (Array new: 10) ]. >> >> Something I came across leately: Threads are evil - >> http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2006/EECS-2006-1.pdf > > They're not evil, just mischievous. > > I find it a fairly unimpressive article that recites what any decent programmer already knows about parallel programming. > > "This scenario is bleak for computer vendors: their next generation of machines will become widely known as the ones on which many programs crash." > > heh. True. > > Gulik. > > -- > http://gulik.pbwiki.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Plugins overview

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Michael Rueger <m.rueger(a)acm.org> wrote: > Torsten Bergmann wrote: > > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> If you want that I try it tell me where I can find it. > >> Then another question is > >> what is the fallback if people do not have the plugin (I mean > >> something else than getting a primitive failed). > > > > > > Dear Santa, > > > > it would be nice to have a page on the pharo-project website > > with an overview and downloadable precompiled versions of all the > > plugins available. > I think this is ok. But I would also add a text that explains the mandatory or recommended plugins for a Pharo imagen. For example, TrueType. In addition, we can post the script that let the user know if he has or not those plugins. Moreover, we can put the links of this plugins (as torsten said. What do you think? > > Dear Torsten, > > is on its way. > > Santa (aka Michael who was supposed to start this two weeks ago) > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] {Spam?} Re: Which Squeak problem do you try to solve

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Markus, I hesitate to think I could say it any better than Stef did. I can, however, say it differently. The answer to your question is "All of them." Obviously, that will not happen in one release, as witnessed by the milestones on the wiki. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 4:47 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: {Spam?} Re: [Pharo-project] Which Squeak problem do you try to solve Markus We loved Squeak: I'm amongst the guy with marcus that did so much etoy and squeak presentations... We translated etoy books in french, german.... We wrote SqueakByExample, we gave lecture all around europe.... We produced a robust release (3.9) We pushed unit tests in squeak. But but but we got burnt to the point of being sick of smalltalk because of code rot and lack of consciousness. Squeak nearly killed our fun and before turning to ruby or python we gave a try to do pharo. Did you look at the code of squeak Project Etoy PasteUpMorph Morph classes? if not I suggest you do it :) This is striking. Take for example Project>>enter: returningFlag revert: revertFlag saveForRevert: saveForRevert Pharo is not an exploratory project. We want to have a good open source smalltalk. Eventually with a scripting syntax, closure, modules, new mop, new files library, unicode support, clean compiler, ..... better IDE, refactoring, better Lint rules, smaller memory footprint. We want to make sure that people can invent good/excellent sotfware system with pharo and at the same time we want to reinvent/rethink smalltalk. So this will be difficult because users will complain but they will get a better system: more tests, more documentation, better design.... Even rebuild etoy on top of it. But only on top not everywhere inside. So we free to join. Now pharo is not a democracy there is no voting board process (because we were with goran the guys that started the squeakfoundation): we will let the community discuss, propose, argue, **send code** and at the end if there is a conflict we will decide (adrian, marcus, mickael, and me) Normally this will be a rare case. We can decide to ask somebody to join the board but this is our decision. We will be transparent, all our decisions are public. Now as a contributor you can really get an impact: alain/gary are a clear examples of that -- we value their code action -- alain removed MVC and isMorphic. So we will always consider your contributions and tell you why we do not integrate them, we will always consider code that improve the system. Stef > After reading your interesting project website, I'm still not quite > sure which (Squeak) problem do you try to solve with Pharo? Or is it > more an exploratory project? > > Thanks in advance for any reply > > Markus Boehm > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Plugins overview

by Michael Rueger

Torsten Bergmann wrote: > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> If you want that I try it tell me where I can find it. >> Then another question is >> what is the fallback if people do not have the plugin (I mean >> something else than getting a primitive failed). > > > Dear Santa, > > it would be nice to have a page on the pharo-project website > with an overview and downloadable precompiled versions of all the > plugins available. Dear Torsten, is on its way. Santa (aka Michael who was supposed to start this two weeks ago)

March 26, 2009

[Pharo-project] Plugins overview

by Torsten Bergmann

StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > If you want that I try it tell me where I can find it. > Then another question is > what is the fallback if people do not have the plugin (I mean > something else than getting a primitive failed). Dear Santa, it would be nice to have a page on the pharo-project website with an overview and downloadable precompiled versions of all the plugins available. Name ! Win32 ! Mac ! Linux ! ------------------------------------------------------- OSProcess ! OSProcessPlugin.dll ! ... ! ... ! SqueakFFIPrims ! SqueakFFIPrims.dll ! ! ! ... I know that in Squeakland everybody works on a dev-machine with the latest compiler and vmmaker tool chain installed - but in the pharo land things should be more accessible (from a website). Thanks T. -- Neu: GMX FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate + Telefonanschluss fÃ¼r nur 17,95 Euro/mtl.!* http://dsl.gmx.de/?ac=OM.AD.PD003K11308T4569a

March 26, 2009