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Re: [Pharo-dev] Initial Feedback on Pharo 7 contribution process

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi torsten On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 10:44 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Hi, > > even when contributing to Pharo 7.0 is still very very cumbersome I was able > to sort out most of the problems and contribute already a few smaller things. Excellent. Because with my first contribution I broke filetree itself. And while trying to integrate fixes Iceberg felt apart on me. I kept a version for esteban postmortem analysis :) > Unfortunately there is not much communication on what is currently in the pipe > or planned on easing the process - which can easily lead to the impression > that we do not really move or slow us down. We want to get close to the confort we got before. So controlling fogbugs from Pharo.. I do not want to - write email by hand - close fogbugs issue by hand - relaunch the PR tests by hand (because right now we are saturating the inria slaves when we rescan the status of the PR). > I know step by step it goes and at least we have again the build process rolling > https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2017/08/16/pharo-70-is-starting-to-roll-f… > > Nonetheless one of my PRs was already integrated and the integration of my WebBrowser > package is still in the pipe (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/193) Well you see. Run the tests, review the code, integrate and redo. Now I cannot spend my day doing this. > The descriptions from Guille helped me - but there are still things I need > answers to: > > 1. Will or is it still possible to automatically update" an image in Pharo 7 > or in the future? Immediately no because the problem is that image that a fix is split in two packages. and package Z should be loaded before package A. Then loading blindly the packages will not work. So a baseline expressing this dependency order is needed and right now we do not automatically have it. > The World menu entry "System" -> "System update" has been removed? Yes > Is this temporary of will it return once we know how it could be done again? I would love. >> 2. In latest Pharo 7.0 image there is a glitch that a method category > has a typo in class "HEBinaryReaderWriter" and is "writting" instead of > "writing". > > Lets assume I want to fix such a simple problem. But Hermes was an external package managed on GitHub. > And it is now part of the image and therefore also in the "pharo" repo on GitHub. So how is it > maintainted/managed with the new process? > > So do I fix this as a regular PR for Pharo 7 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo > or should it be fixed in the original repo https://github.com/tesonep/hermes > and Hermes is synched from time to time into or from Pharo. Normally we always say that packages inside Pharo should be fixed in Pharo and PR issued to their home so that Pharo does not wait for a PR to come for an external package. > 3. What still hit me most is that it is hard to identify the images and find out > how "new" they are. > > Example: In Guilles example https://github.com/guillep/PharoIntegrationProcess/wiki/Contribute-a-fix-to… > it is written that one should use > > wget -O - get.pharo.org/70+vm | bash > > This gives me an image file called "Pharo.image" and after a few days I do not know how > old it is or what it was built from. > > When I start the image and look into the about box it gives me > > Pharo 7.0 > Latest update: #0 > > telling me nothing and when I run > > SystemVersion current > > it says "Pharo7.0SNAPSHOT of 16 August 2017 update 0" which is also very useless. > > Both do not tell me anything about the build number!!! I can only guess the git commit from the name > of the sources file: > > Pharo7.0-32bit-c28bff9.sources > > When I check https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/commits/development with "c28bff9" then at least > I have an idea how old it is. Yes guille did a fix for that. Because this is super annoying for a guy like me that downloads one image after each integration. > > Especially the last topic is a pain point and the most pressuring to be discussed - without a clear image build number > in the version/about box nobody is able to reproduce in which image one run into trouble or he is basing his work on. > > I know during transition time we need more patience and things will get more stable and we make progress over > time. But I whised we would have more communication on the overall topic (current work, plans, ...) on this list here. Marcus and esteban are coming back from vacation and we will get up to speed. I should sit with marcus to show you how to survive to git. Because git is More complex (esteban told me that this is a real distributed version control system while MC was not .... nevertheless it is more complex. For example: do I clone for the origin or the fork .... and it influences on the process). > I have no idea who is working on what already regarding making the process more easier. Guille and Pavel were and Esteban will work on it. > Thanks for any comments or own feedback you can share. > > Regards > T. > > >

Aug. 18, 2017

[ Pharo 70 ] Build 43 PR 208 Open-a-package-extending-a-class-via-the-extension-protocol

by Stephane Ducasse

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/20062/Open-a-package-extending-a-class-vi… https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/208

Aug. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Is there a way to remove the extra protocol in calypso?

by Stephane Ducasse

Quentin told me that when he is compiling with command+s he gets another method. I could not really understand but it was strange. We also notice that this is strange that we cannot access to the old method when we - take a method - change the selector and start to reimplement something (in that case we cannot access the old method definition). Stef On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 10:05 PM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > We should add this in a class comment and probably a menu somewhere. > > On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 10:05 PM, Stephane Ducasse > <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Tx denis. >> >> Stef >> >> On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 9:40 PM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi Stef. >>> >>> Yes, you need disable plugins. It is not available from settings browser. >>> Use scripts: >>> >>> ClyInheritanceAnalyzerEnvironmentPlugin disable. >>> ClyCriticEnvironmentPlugin disableMethodGroup >>> >>> >>> But according to your logic method icons (up/down arrows) should be disabled >>> too. Right now they are still managed by Nautilus method actions. To disable >>> them use: >>> >>> >>> ClyNautilusBrowserPlugin disable >>> >>> >>> 2017-08-18 21:07 GMT+02:00 Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com>: >>>> >>>> Hi denis >>>> >>>> The extra protocols are super confusing for newbies. >>>> Is there a setting to remove the critiques (because it flickers) from >>>> the protocols. >>>> Can we remove the overrides and inherited? >>>> I do not care to know that I overrides initialize from Object for example. >>>> >>>> When you learn a system you do not need to have bells and whistles. >>>> You should be able to concentrate. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>

Aug. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Is there a way to remove the extra protocol in calypso?

by Stephane Ducasse

We should add this in a class comment and probably a menu somewhere. On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 10:05 PM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Tx denis. > > Stef > > On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 9:40 PM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi Stef. >> >> Yes, you need disable plugins. It is not available from settings browser. >> Use scripts: >> >> ClyInheritanceAnalyzerEnvironmentPlugin disable. >> ClyCriticEnvironmentPlugin disableMethodGroup >> >> >> But according to your logic method icons (up/down arrows) should be disabled >> too. Right now they are still managed by Nautilus method actions. To disable >> them use: >> >> >> ClyNautilusBrowserPlugin disable >> >> >> 2017-08-18 21:07 GMT+02:00 Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>> Hi denis >>> >>> The extra protocols are super confusing for newbies. >>> Is there a setting to remove the critiques (because it flickers) from >>> the protocols. >>> Can we remove the overrides and inherited? >>> I do not care to know that I overrides initialize from Object for example. >>> >>> When you learn a system you do not need to have bells and whistles. >>> You should be able to concentrate. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>

Aug. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Is there a way to remove the extra protocol in calypso?

by Stephane Ducasse

Tx denis. Stef On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 9:40 PM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Stef. > > Yes, you need disable plugins. It is not available from settings browser. > Use scripts: > > ClyInheritanceAnalyzerEnvironmentPlugin disable. > ClyCriticEnvironmentPlugin disableMethodGroup > > > But according to your logic method icons (up/down arrows) should be disabled > too. Right now they are still managed by Nautilus method actions. To disable > them use: > > > ClyNautilusBrowserPlugin disable > > > 2017-08-18 21:07 GMT+02:00 Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com>: >> >> Hi denis >> >> The extra protocols are super confusing for newbies. >> Is there a setting to remove the critiques (because it flickers) from >> the protocols. >> Can we remove the overrides and inherited? >> I do not care to know that I overrides initialize from Object for example. >> >> When you learn a system you do not need to have bells and whistles. >> You should be able to concentrate. >> >> Stef >> >

Aug. 18, 2017

Little extensions to easily manage file versions

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi I really like (when I save little data files) to have a simple versioning. For example for my game collection I have Games.1.ston Games.2.ston ... and I like that this is managed for me by the system. I harvested this functionality from squeak long time ago. I rewrote it fast and dirty in Pharo. I find this two methods super handy and they provide cheap versioning for little files. lastNameFor: baseFileName extension: extension "Assumes a file name includes a version number encoded as '.' followed by digits preceding the file extension, e.g., games.22.ston Answer the file name with the largest number. If a version number is not found, raises an error" "FileSystem workingDirectory lastNameFor: 'games' extension: 'ston'" | files | files := self childrenMatching: baseFileName , '.*.' , extension. files ifEmpty: [ ^ self error: 'No file with number pattern' ]. ^ (files asSortedCollection: [ :a :b | a basename < b basename ]) last nextNameFor: baseFileName extension: extension "Assumes a file name includes a version number encoded as '.' followed by digits preceding the file extension, e.g., games.22.ston Increment the version number (of the largest one) and answer the new file name, e.g., games23.ston If a version number is not found, set the version to 1 and answer a new file name" "FileSystem workingDirectory nextNameFor: 'games' extension: 'ston'" | files splits version | files := self childrenMatching: baseFileName , '.*.' , extension. files ifEmpty: [ ^ baseFileName , '.1.' , extension ]. splits := files collect: [ :filename | filename basename splitOn: $. ] thenSelect: [ :split | (split at: 1) = baseFileName and: [ split size = 3 ] ]. splits := splits asSortedCollection: [ :a :b | (a at: 2) < (b at: 2) ]. version := splits isEmpty ifTrue: [ 1 ] ifFalse: [ (splits last at: 2) asNumber + 1 ]. ^ baseFileName , '.' , version asString , '.' , extension I think that these to methods can be a valuable addition to fileReference (the methods can be better implemented). Let me know what you think. https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/20324/Handy-file-automatic-numbering Stef

Aug. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Is there a way to remove the extra protocol in calypso?

by Denis Kudriashov

Hi Stef. Yes, you need disable plugins. It is not available from settings browser. Use scripts: ClyInheritanceAnalyzerEnvironmentPlugin disable. ClyCriticEnvironmentPlugin disableMethodGroup But according to your logic method icons (up/down arrows) should be disabled too. Right now they are still managed by Nautilus method actions. To disable them use: ClyNautilusBrowserPlugin disable 2017-08-18 21:07 GMT+02:00 Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com>: > Hi denis > > The extra protocols are super confusing for newbies. > Is there a setting to remove the critiques (because it flickers) from > the protocols. > Can we remove the overrides and inherited? > I do not care to know that I overrides initialize from Object for example. > > When you learn a system you do not need to have bells and whistles. > You should be able to concentrate. > > Stef > >

Aug. 18, 2017

Is there a way to remove the extra protocol in calypso?

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi denis The extra protocols are super confusing for newbies. Is there a setting to remove the critiques (because it flickers) from the protocols. Can we remove the overrides and inherited? I do not care to know that I overrides initialize from Object for example. When you learn a system you do not need to have bells and whistles. You should be able to concentrate. Stef

Aug. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Lowering the pain of newbies

by Stephane Ducasse

I have the impression that we should rethink the meta interface of classes and reflective calls. On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 10:44 AM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi > > I wrote proposal in issue > > 2017-08-18 0:52 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works>: >> >> Is this a goal we can all share for 7.0? >> >> Sort out the expert tools (like git etc), but equally enable that >> simplicity you expect for a child/newbie/expert... >> >> I'm in! >> >> Tim >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On 17 Aug 2017, at 20:52, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> > >> > Hi guys >> > >> > my son coded in Pharo 60 >> > >> > testGuessUrlPart >> > >> > |dg8| >> > dg8 := GameItem new; >> > name: 'Dragon Quest VIII : Journey Of The Cursed King'; >> > console: 'PS2'. >> > self assert: dg8 guessUrlPart equals: >> > 'dragonquestviiijourneyofthecursedking' >> > >> > and guess what he broke the system. >> > >> > We should not accept such kind of behavior. >> > name: should not change the name of the class. >> > >> > I do not know the solution but I fear when I will teach 160 students >> > this fall. >> > We should make sure that Pharo is not a system only for experts! >> > >> > any idea is welcome >> > >> > >> > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/20322/name-sent-to-a-class-SHOULD-NOT-aut… >> > >> > Stef >> > >> >> >

Aug. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] Latest Debian, Ubuntu and CentOS packages of the pharo-vm

by Nicolas Cellier

Are the packaging stuff in opensmalltalk too, or just in pharo-vm? It would be great to move all to opensmalltalk. What is specificity of pharo-vm repository now? 2017-08-18 17:04 GMT+02:00 Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: > > Hi Holger, > > > On Aug 18, 2017, at 2:54 AM, Holger Freyther <holger(a)freyther.de> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > when running Pharo in production you might want to install the image and > a VM from distribution packages. So far there were no current public > packages and during the last months I have modernized the debian packaging > and recently added CentOS rpm packaging as well. The process of generating > new source packages is integrated into the pharo-vm travis-ci build as well. > > > > Every time that master of pharo-vm.git is updated a new source package > will be uploaded to the Open(SUSE) Build Service and new packages will be > built and are available in a "latest" package feed. The generated (and > used) sourcecode is inside the source package and will be archived by the > OBS platform (one can even nicely diff versions). The "stable" VM is not > built from pharo-vm.git (yet?) so it doesn't show on OBS yet. > > Could/should this description be added to README.md on opensmalltalk-vm? > I think it would be great if we kept information on the various VM build CI > servers in README.md. It would help people find VMs instead of having to > build their own and it would give a good idea of the available platforms. > > > > Below are some semi-tested installation notes in case you want to try it > out. The binary names are picked to allow to install the 32bit and 64bit VM > in parallel. The names currently are: > > > > - pharo6-32 (32bit version) > > - pharo6-64 (64bit version) > > - pharo6-32-ui (32bit version with X11 dependencies) > > - pharo6-64-ui (64bit version with X11 dependencies) > > > > > > CentOS 6.8: > > > > # Add the repo > > $ yum-config-manager --add-repo http://download.opensuse.org/ > repositories/devel:/languages:/pharo:/latest/CentOS_6/devel: > languages:pharo:latest.repo > > > > # Install 32bit packages (with X11 dependency for *-ui or not) > > > > $ yum install pharo6-32-ui.i686 or pharo6-32.i386 > > > > # Install 64bit packages > > > > $ yum install pharo6-64-ui.x86_64 pharo6-64.x86_64 > > > > > > > > CentOS 7 (only 64bit): > > > > > > $ yum-config-manager --add-repo http://download.opensuse.org/ > repositories/devel:/languages:/pharo:/latest/CentOS_7/devel: > languages:pharo:latest.repo > > $ yum install pharo6-64-ui.x86_64 pharo6-64.x86_64 > > > > > > Debian 8: > > > > # Add signing key > > $ wget -O - http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/devel:/languages: > /pharo:/latest/Debian_8.0/Release.key | apt-key add - > > > > # Update and install > > $ apt update > > $ apt install pharo6-32-ui pharo6-64-ui (or pharo6-32 or pharo6-64) > > > > Ubuntu 14.04 LTS > > > > # Add signing key > > $ wget -O - http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/devel:/languages: > /pharo:/latest/xUbuntu_14.04/Release.key | apt-key add - > > > > # Update and install > > $ apt update > > $ apt install pharo6-32-ui pharo6-64-ui > > > > Ubuntu 16.04 > > > > # Add signing key > > $ wget -O - http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/devel:/languages: > /pharo:/latest/xUbuntu_16.04/Release.key | apt-key add - > > > > # Update and install > > $ apt update > > $ apt install pharo6-32-ui pharo6-64-ui > > > > > > >

Aug. 18, 2017