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Re: [Pharo-project] Author in Squeak (Thread moved over from smallwiki)

by Igor Stasenko

2009/5/5 Keith Hodges <keith_hodges(a)yahoo.co.uk>: > stÃ©phane ducasse wrote: >> Apparently there is no value in what we are doing: > I didn't say that, is that what you believe? >> removing etoy, removing a lot of ***SHIT*** from squeak, fixing tons >> of bugs (the bug archives >> is full of fixed bugs and fixes problems), writing more tests, >> cleaning a HUGE spaghetti mess >> (preferences....). Utilities is one of this crap. > Not much use to me I am afraid, if my code cant work interoperably > between squeak and pharo, then I cant port any of my existing projects over. > > Hmm what is needed for this... oh yes > > Installing and package loading tools that are managed outside of any one > image as a common resource for everyone, that all those wise and > knowledgeable about such things should contribute to. This needs > political will to promote collaboration at this level. > > The problem with this idea is that I myself am not good enough nor do I > have the time to realise the vision. I wonder where the people that do > have the knowledge to do this are. Oh yes they are all working on Pharo! > So that leaves the rest of us scuppered, thanks... > > You still don't understand, my argument against pharo is NOT that you > will not use my code, it is that you will NOT contribute resources to > the community in such a way as can be used for the benefit of all. i.e. > MC1.5 is a project outside of Pharo and Squeak that you could contribute > to, but you wont. So is SUnit, and SSpec etc. Furthermore those projects > may be doomed to failure if you dont contribute, after all your team has > the knowledge of traits which no one else has, I certainly don't. MC1.5 > needs your team's input, and has needed it for over a year, yet you will > not see it as something worth contributing to for the benefit of all. So > MC1.5 is dead in the water and 2 years of work has been wasted. >> And of course Author could be made a bit better. > Author, what is Author, Author doesn't exist for Squeak users. > > If you would think in a community minded way, Author would be another > external package, that is available for all. >> Of course there is no preference to avoid to warn on deprecated call! >> >> Apparently you only do stuff right. Perfect! > I didn't say that, is this what you believe? > > I am saying the opposite, and I have always been saying the opposite. I > need others to collaborate to make these ideas a success. I am primarily > an ideas man, my code is not that brilliant until the third or fourth > iteration. Neither do i. I learn from my mistakes, trying to learn from other's mistakes. > My concern is that the Pharo team continuously seek to > compete not to contribute. >> But we will do it our way. Period. > Exactly the opposite attitude to what is needed in this situation. No > wonder we are not getting anywhere. > Keith, IMO, its too early to say that Pharo team is not contributing. People making things as they get used to. And who you are (or me, or anyone else) to have a right to dictate them how to do it? Getting in the middle of process and pointing that they doing it wrong is not a good tone. Let us wait for release, when we could have a pieces of code which is stabilized. Only then we could think about porting/contributing etc. And only then you can point to wrong/bad things, but not now :) > Keith > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

May 5, 2009

[Pharo-project] Add a method to String freezes my pharo image

by Mariano Martinez Peck

No matter which method I try to add. Is this happening only to me ? I am using pharo core 10300 and exupery vm on ubuntu. Cheers, Mariano

May 5, 2009

[Pharo-project] Author in Squeak (Thread moved over from smallwiki)

by Keith Hodges

stÃ©phane ducasse wrote: > Apparently there is no value in what we are doing: I didn't say that, is that what you believe? > removing etoy, removing a lot of ***SHIT*** from squeak, fixing tons > of bugs (the bug archives > is full of fixed bugs and fixes problems), writing more tests, > cleaning a HUGE spaghetti mess > (preferences....). Utilities is one of this crap. Not much use to me I am afraid, if my code cant work interoperably between squeak and pharo, then I cant port any of my existing projects over. Hmm what is needed for this... oh yes Installing and package loading tools that are managed outside of any one image as a common resource for everyone, that all those wise and knowledgeable about such things should contribute to. This needs political will to promote collaboration at this level. The problem with this idea is that I myself am not good enough nor do I have the time to realise the vision. I wonder where the people that do have the knowledge to do this are. Oh yes they are all working on Pharo! So that leaves the rest of us scuppered, thanks... You still don't understand, my argument against pharo is NOT that you will not use my code, it is that you will NOT contribute resources to the community in such a way as can be used for the benefit of all. i.e. MC1.5 is a project outside of Pharo and Squeak that you could contribute to, but you wont. So is SUnit, and SSpec etc. Furthermore those projects may be doomed to failure if you dont contribute, after all your team has the knowledge of traits which no one else has, I certainly don't. MC1.5 needs your team's input, and has needed it for over a year, yet you will not see it as something worth contributing to for the benefit of all. So MC1.5 is dead in the water and 2 years of work has been wasted. > And of course Author could be made a bit better. Author, what is Author, Author doesn't exist for Squeak users. If you would think in a community minded way, Author would be another external package, that is available for all. > Of course there is no preference to avoid to warn on deprecated call! > > Apparently you only do stuff right. Perfect! I didn't say that, is this what you believe? I am saying the opposite, and I have always been saying the opposite. I need others to collaborate to make these ideas a success. I am primarily an ideas man, my code is not that brilliant until the third or fourth iteration. My concern is that the Pharo team continuously seek to compete not to contribute. > But we will do it our way. Period. Exactly the opposite attitude to what is needed in this situation. No wonder we are not getting anywhere. Keith

May 5, 2009

[Pharo-project] SubpaneDividerMorph question of existence

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi buzy pharoers I found a removal script from etoyers and they removed SubpaneDividerMorph. I check in Pharo this class has no subclass and nobody uses it. Stef

May 5, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pier-EmailSender and "Contact Us"

by Tudor Girba

Hi guys, I believe this mail exchange belongs to the Pharo and not to the Smallwiki mailing list :). Cheers, Doru On 5 May 2009, at 09:33, stÃ©phane ducasse wrote: > Apparently there is no value in what we are doing: > removing etoy, removing a lot of ***SHIT*** from squeak, fixing tons > of bugs (the bug archives > is full of fixed bugs and fixes problems), writing more tests, > cleaning a HUGE spaghetti mess > (preferences....). Utilities is one of this crap. And of course > Author could be made a bit better. > Of course there is no preference to avoid to warn on deprecated call! > > Apparently you only do stuff right. Perfect! But we will do it our > way. Period. > > May be you should put your code under GPL or something like that > we will not even thing that we should have a look at it. > > What we are doing is totally useless for you. Excellent! Continue to > bark if this > helps you. > > Stef > > > On May 4, 2009, at 11:08 PM, Keith Hodges wrote: > >> John M McIntosh wrote: >>> >>> On 4-May-09, at 6:10 AM, Keith Hodges wrote: >>> >>>> I don't use pharo myself. Goodness knows why they break things as >>>> simple >>>> as author initials. >>>> >>>> Keith >>> >>> >>> Er because of the re-licensing of the squeak code base and the >>> discovery that using JUST >>> initials made the chore very difficult to determine who wrote the >>> code. So they enforce names now >> Thats not my point my point is that they broke the code. >> >> The way forward is to engineer a solution, not just hack something in >> that breaks what everyone has already. >> >> One could propose a new loadable Author package that handles >> everything >> and publish that for everyone that cares to use it, rather than >> forcing >> code to break and all manner of nightmares managing two streams per >> package. >>> since Pharo has a more business target and the first question those >>> folks ask, what's the license >>> and code ownership like? >> I use Squeak for Business, and I will continue to do so. The whole >> approach behind pharo is flawed because it is dedicated to making >> more >> work for me the coder of stuff that is for all. This is one instance >> where I feel entirely justified in saying I told you so. >> >> Keith >> _______________________________________________ >> Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki > > _______________________________________________ > Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki -- www.tudorgirba.com "What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?"

May 5, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Z39.50 FFI Client (ZOOM binding)

by Andrey Larionov

It's very cool. As a former developer of z39.50-like service and a library IT-engineer i can say, what ability to use it with Seaside could spread Squeak into librarian sphere. If i only could youse this beauty tools (Seaside, Pharo, ZOOM) in 2001, but... On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 20:13, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand <hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2009/5/4 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> >> On May 4, 2009, at 9:10 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> >>> ZOOM is an acronym for 'Z39.50 Object-Orientation Model' >> >> yes but this is not really clear either. I read the manual but this >> should be so obvious that they never said a word about >> what is a z39.50 OOM > > Â Is not obvious at all StÃ©phane, I forgot some links or explanation, > and given that is the star protocol for querying catalogs through > national libraries around the world, the documentation is pretty > unclear and they assume many things (imagine how it's to build a > Z39.50 server to test) > > Z39.50 is a pre-web protocol for querying library catalogs using the > same rules, something like using the same UI to query any library. > Pre-web means this protocol doesn't need HTTP to work, but encodes > things using ODR/ASN.1 protocol. The typical operations for this > protocol are Search, Retrieve, Sort and Browse, (documentation says > you can update databases too but I didn't tested it). What is weird to > discover is that not every catalog of scientific journals, for > example, is available through a web UI. > > A ZOOM binding [1] is a concrete implementation of the Z39.50 API > provided by an OO specification called ZOOM. The conformation with > ZOOM is optional, and as a developper you can choose any toolkit > (Corssnet's ZedKit, OCLC's tools or YAZ which is the most popular) and > implement the interface using the low-level YAZ calls (here you need > to mess with complex data-structures from ASN.1 and PDU's) or using > the ZOOM calls, which happen to be included in the same dll/so > library. Hope that clears the picture a little bit. > > HernÃ¡n > > > [1] http://zoom.z3950.org/bind/index.html > >>> >>> Looks like for doing databasing. >>> >>> Alexandre >>> >>> On 4 May 2009, at 08:59, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> >>>> YAZ >>>> C toolkit for development of Z39.50 applications. >>>> >>>> So what is it? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 4, 2009, at 1:40 AM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: >>>> >>>>> This is a binding of the ZOOM Yaz client for Squeak and Pharo [1]. >>>>> >>>>> To install: >>>>> >>>>> 1) Download the compiled library (DLL or SO) from >>>>> http://www.indexdata.dk/yaz/ and copy the yaz3.dll (or equivalent in >>>>> Unix) to your Squeak directory. >>>>> 2) Make sure you have installed FFI package in your image: >>>>> 3) If you have Installer in your image doIt this: >>>>> >>>>> Installer ss project: 'Z3950'; >>>>> install: 'Z3950'; >>>>> install: 'Z3950Tests'. >>>>> >>>>> To use: >>>>> >>>>> Right now you must know the infamous PQF/PQN query syntax (I'm >>>>> working >>>>> on it). Connect to a Z39.50 server and make a query for records with >>>>> author Foucault : >>>>> >>>>> Z3950Client new >>>>> server: #Alameda; >>>>> query: '@attr 1=1003 foucault'. >>>>> >>>>> or using a random server for Kant >>>>> >>>>> Z3950Client new >>>>> query: '@attr 1=1003 kant'. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best regards >>>>> >>>>> HernÃ¡n >>>>> >>>>> [1] SqueakSource page link : http://www.squeaksource.com/Z3950.html >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel Â http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 4, 2009

[Pharo-project] Fwd: MC enhancement? sync cache with server

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > Hi > > I would like to know if somebody extended MC to be able to > automatically publish the difference (mcz files) that are in the > package-cache to a squeaksource server. > > Stef > > >

May 4, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Z39.50 FFI Client (ZOOM binding)

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

2009/5/4 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > > On May 4, 2009, at 9:10 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >> ZOOM is an acronym for 'Z39.50 Object-Orientation Model' > > yes but this is not really clear either. I read the manual but this > should be so obvious that they never said a word about > what is a z39.50 OOM Is not obvious at all StÃ©phane, I forgot some links or explanation, and given that is the star protocol for querying catalogs through national libraries around the world, the documentation is pretty unclear and they assume many things (imagine how it's to build a Z39.50 server to test) Z39.50 is a pre-web protocol for querying library catalogs using the same rules, something like using the same UI to query any library. Pre-web means this protocol doesn't need HTTP to work, but encodes things using ODR/ASN.1 protocol. The typical operations for this protocol are Search, Retrieve, Sort and Browse, (documentation says you can update databases too but I didn't tested it). What is weird to discover is that not every catalog of scientific journals, for example, is available through a web UI. A ZOOM binding [1] is a concrete implementation of the Z39.50 API provided by an OO specification called ZOOM. The conformation with ZOOM is optional, and as a developper you can choose any toolkit (Corssnet's ZedKit, OCLC's tools or YAZ which is the most popular) and implement the interface using the low-level YAZ calls (here you need to mess with complex data-structures from ASN.1 and PDU's) or using the ZOOM calls, which happen to be included in the same dll/so library. Hope that clears the picture a little bit. HernÃ¡n [1] http://zoom.z3950.org/bind/index.html >> >> Looks like for doing databasing. >> >> Alexandre >> >> On 4 May 2009, at 08:59, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >>> YAZ >>> C toolkit for development of Z39.50 applications. >>> >>> So what is it? >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 4, 2009, at 1:40 AM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: >>> >>>> This is a binding of the ZOOM Yaz client for Squeak and Pharo [1]. >>>> >>>> To install: >>>> >>>> 1) Download the compiled library (DLL or SO) from >>>> http://www.indexdata.dk/yaz/ and copy the yaz3.dll (or equivalent in >>>> Unix) to your Squeak directory. >>>> 2) Make sure you have installed FFI package in your image: >>>> 3) If you have Installer in your image doIt this: >>>> >>>> Installer ss project: 'Z3950'; >>>> install: 'Z3950'; >>>> install: 'Z3950Tests'. >>>> >>>> To use: >>>> >>>> Right now you must know the infamous PQF/PQN query syntax (I'm >>>> working >>>> on it). Connect to a Z39.50 server and make a query for records with >>>> author Foucault : >>>> >>>> Z3950Client new >>>> server: #Alameda; >>>> query: '@attr 1=1003 foucault'. >>>> >>>> or using a random server for Kant >>>> >>>> Z3950Client new >>>> query: '@attr 1=1003 kant'. >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards >>>> >>>> HernÃ¡n >>>> >>>> [1] SqueakSource page link : http://www.squeaksource.com/Z3950.html >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel Â http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 4, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] BobsBrowser again

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On May 4, 2009, at 5:18 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: > 2009/5/4 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> >> On May 4, 2009, at 3:31 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: >> >>> StÃ©phane, >>> BobsBrowser is an alternative browser, so isn't going to replace >>> ever the traditional browser tools, but there are a couple of cool >>> things about it: >>> >>> -You can use it to quickly survey class hierarchies >>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/1999-April/001103.ht… >> >> how is different from the package browser inheritance list? > > It is collapsable at any level of the hierarchy you're viewing and > dettached from the browser window. I loaded the code to check :) >>> I think they have different purposes. With the Smart groups you > group of custom classes, categories or methods, you can assign > different groups to different things according to a particular > classification you have in mind or simply as shortcuts to save time. > However I found some issues: (sorry if they are corrected in latest > version, I just did a #loadSuperOB) The items in the tree are not > indented, for example, if I add Object, then MessageSend and > #isMessageSend, all of them appears at the same level in the tree > (cannot find an option to indent items manually, although it would be > nice an auto-indentation feature). After that, If I add the other > #isMessageSend implementor from Object, it doesn't appear in the tree. > So if I work some time with a smart group, and see the #isMessageSend, > I have to remember what implementor I have added or click the item to > know who belongs to, and I would have to create another group to add > another implementor. pass the info to david :) > Another thing I see is menus over items are not contextual, may be > there are particular operations you want to be able to do with > messages but no with classes. A nice thing of the OB is the hierarchy > implementors, which BB doesn't have, but I didn't found a way to add > them to a smart group. > The hierarchical lists of BB are not intended for knowledge > organization or custom navigation of Smalltalk things, the hierarchies > you can see are the organizations from the Smalltalk reflective > meta-architecture at any level (classes, senders, implementors), and > they are expandable/collapsable (in the OB you can only expand the > system categories and subcategories), but you cannot build groups. > That would be the main differences as far I as know. OK I see. >> I would love to be able to script a browser (soon I hope that I will >> be able to do that with glamour). > > Any link or documentation about glamour? Soon once doru will release it I'm sure we will see a boum of new browsers :) Stef

May 4, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] BobsBrowser again

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

2009/5/4 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > > On May 4, 2009, at 3:31 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: > >> StÃ©phane, >> Â BobsBrowser is an alternative browser, so isn't going to replace >> ever the traditional browser tools, but there are a couple of cool >> things about it: >> >> -You can use it to quickly survey class hierarchies >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/1999-April/001103.ht… > > how is different from the package browser inheritance list? It is collapsable at any level of the hierarchy you're viewing and dettached from the browser window. > >> >> -IIRC the Whisker browser used his hierarchical list, but in Whiskler >> they are attached to a window while in BobsBrowser the lists are >> detached (although you do not have the multiple views in one window >> feature) >> -As an alternative way to navigate the entire system, and I >> particularly value the Driller (click in the "special items" (*) to >> open it). > > What is a driller Please see the attachement. >> >> -If you are not super fan of classifications, you may find it more >> comfortable. > > How different from smart group in the browser of david? I think they have different purposes. With the Smart groups you group of custom classes, categories or methods, you can assign different groups to different things according to a particular classification you have in mind or simply as shortcuts to save time. However I found some issues: (sorry if they are corrected in latest version, I just did a #loadSuperOB) The items in the tree are not indented, for example, if I add Object, then MessageSend and #isMessageSend, all of them appears at the same level in the tree (cannot find an option to indent items manually, although it would be nice an auto-indentation feature). After that, If I add the other #isMessageSend implementor from Object, it doesn't appear in the tree. So if I work some time with a smart group, and see the #isMessageSend, I have to remember what implementor I have added or click the item to know who belongs to, and I would have to create another group to add another implementor. Another thing I see is menus over items are not contextual, may be there are particular operations you want to be able to do with messages but no with classes. A nice thing of the OB is the hierarchy implementors, which BB doesn't have, but I didn't found a way to add them to a smart group. The hierarchical lists of BB are not intended for knowledge organization or custom navigation of Smalltalk things, the hierarchies you can see are the organizations from the Smalltalk reflective meta-architecture at any level (classes, senders, implementors), and they are expandable/collapsable (in the OB you can only expand the system categories and subcategories), but you cannot build groups. That would be the main differences as far I as know. > > I would love to be able to script a browser (soon I hope that I will > be able to do that with glamour). Any link or documentation about glamour? HernÃ¡n > I would love to have a bit the whisker behavior to see multiple > methods at once. > > Stef >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> HernÃ¡n >> >> 2009/5/4 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>> When I see all the self flag: #bob >>> it encourages me to go as far as I can from bob' code >>> >>> So what is that cool with this browser? >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On May 4, 2009, at 1:38 AM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> Â As result of a strange exercise in software resurrection, you have >>>> the chance of using the BobsBrowser [1] again , which is an >>>> exploration of different ways of browsing code. To install please >>>> evaluate: >>>> >>>> Installer ss >>>> Â project: 'BobsBrowser'; >>>> Â install: 'BobsBrowser'. >>>> >>>> You can start a new browser using the World menu or by evaluating: >>>> >>>> BobsBrowser browseAllClasses >>>> >>>> The creator of this goodie was Bob Arning, enjoy it. >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> HernÃ¡n >>>> >>>> [1] http://www.squeaksource.com/BobsBrowser.html >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 4, 2009