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Re: [Pharo-project] What will be the standard browser in Pharo?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, My initial reaction is to strongly suggest doing something to get the additional speed offered by the choice below, but I need to either get some hard data by profiling some typical operations, or at least work with it under real conditions. I am curious what others who have found Pharo to be sluggish find with it. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:45 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] What will be the standard browser in Pharo? Choose OB but not the version with package when you change from system browser to other by clicking ong the left top bottom of a window Stef On Jul 2, 2009, at 11:22 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Stef, > > Is there a way to get the fast browser, or an image with it loaded? > > Bill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr > ] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 3:30 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] What will be the standard browser in > Pharo? > > Hi oscar > > Ideally we would love to have a fast browser with package support: > - dual browser > - class extensions > - traits > - refactoring > - icons > > Now apparently OBEnhancements was a bit dirty and this is not clear > what colin will integrate or not. > Lukas has a OB version which is fast but it does not have > - dual browser > - class extensions > - traits > - icons > So david and lukas should talk a bit more and we could get the best of > the worlds. > Saturday we should have a discussion. Having a fast but powerful > browser is important and right now if the browser does not support > trait then we should remove traits from the image. > Similarly we cannot work well without class extension support and > other package related functionality. > Stef > > > > On Jul 2, 2009, at 9:07 PM, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote: > >> >> Hi Folks, >> >> I am trying to port Squeak by Example to Pharo by Example. I am a >> bit confused about what is suppose dto be the standard browser now. >> I thought it was the OB Package Browser, but Damien Cassou just gave >> me a new image where the browser is an OB System Browser (Categories, >> not packages). I cannot even see any more how to switch between the >> two. >> >> Can someone enlighten me? (Then I can explain it in the book.) >> >> - on >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 2, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] What will be the standard browser in Pharo?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, Understood, but since you appear to be leaving open things that I consider to be drastic (removing traits), it only seems reasonable to try the faster browser on some slower machines to see what impact it makes. It would not take too much prodding for me to be able to give some guidance along the lines of "not enough impact to be of help" or "well worth adopting." _Something_ is eating up a lot of clock cycles at present. Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:25 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] What will be the standard browser in Pharo? "Ideally we would love to have a fast browser with package support:..." Notice the "ideally" and the "would" haha On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Stef, Is there a way to get the fast browser, or an image with it loaded? Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 3:30 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] What will be the standard browser in Pharo? Hi oscar Ideally we would love to have a fast browser with package support: - dual browser - class extensions - traits - refactoring - icons Now apparently OBEnhancements was a bit dirty and this is not clear what colin will integrate or not. Lukas has a OB version which is fast but it does not have - dual browser - class extensions - traits - icons So david and lukas should talk a bit more and we could get the best of the worlds. Saturday we should have a discussion. Having a fast but powerful browser is important and right now if the browser does not support trait then we should remove traits from the image. Similarly we cannot work well without class extension support and other package related functionality. Stef On Jul 2, 2009, at 9:07 PM, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > I am trying to port Squeak by Example to Pharo by Example. I am a bit > confused about what is suppose dto be the standard browser now. I > thought it was the OB Package Browser, but Damien Cassou just gave me > a new image where the browser is an OB System Browser (Categories, not > packages). I cannot even see any more how to switch between the two. > > Can someone enlighten me? (Then I can explain it in the book.) > > - on > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 2, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] About the changes files fixes

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jul 2, 2009, at 11:31 PM, Hernan Wilkinson wrote: > Hi Stef, > I took a look an the notification/listener objects before making > the changes. At that time I decided not to change the listener > because I could not figure out the impact of the change... there are > a lot of ifs depending of the event type and so on, and it is > difficult so see where those events are generated. But not a > problem, I'll take a deeper look and let you know. > What about the class definition changes? do you want also to use > the notification mechanism? yes because like that all the tools can rely on it. The change notification is really an important infrastructural backbone for future tools. So we should improve it. Thanks for your time in this harsh time for pharoers on squeak-dev :) Normally there should be some tests for the notification mechanisms. Stef

July 2, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] What will be the standard browser in Pharo?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Choose OB but not the version with package when you change from system browser to other by clicking ong the left top bottom of a window Stef On Jul 2, 2009, at 11:22 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Stef, > > Is there a way to get the fast browser, or an image with it loaded? > > Bill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr > ] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 3:30 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] What will be the standard browser in > Pharo? > > Hi oscar > > Ideally we would love to have a fast browser with package support: > - dual browser > - class extensions > - traits > - refactoring > - icons > > Now apparently OBEnhancements was a bit dirty and this is not clear > what colin will integrate or not. > Lukas has a OB version which is fast but it does not have > - dual browser > - class extensions > - traits > - icons > So david and lukas should talk a bit more and we could get the best > of the worlds. > Saturday we should have a discussion. Having a fast but powerful > browser is important and right now if the browser does not support > trait then we should remove traits from the image. > Similarly we cannot work well without class extension support and > other package related functionality. > Stef > > > > On Jul 2, 2009, at 9:07 PM, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote: > >> >> Hi Folks, >> >> I am trying to port Squeak by Example to Pharo by Example. I am a >> bit >> confused about what is suppose dto be the standard browser now. I >> thought it was the OB Package Browser, but Damien Cassou just gave me >> a new image where the browser is an OB System Browser (Categories, >> not >> packages). I cannot even see any more how to switch between the two. >> >> Can someone enlighten me? (Then I can explain it in the book.) >> >> - on >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 2, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] About change recording

by Hernan Wilkinson

It fixes 692. For 661, it fixes rename for classes but not for traits. On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 6:04 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>wrote: > hernan > > do you know if your code fixes: > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=661 > and > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=692 > > Stef > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 2, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] About the changes files fixes

by Hernan Wilkinson

Hi Stef, I took a look an the notification/listener objects before making the changes. At that time I decided not to change the listener because I could not figure out the impact of the change... there are a lot of ifs depending of the event type and so on, and it is difficult so see where those events are generated. But not a problem, I'll take a deeper look and let you know. What about the class definition changes? do you want also to use the notification mechanism? On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 6:15 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>wrote: > Hi hernan > > I read your code and normally the notification alone should be enough. > The changelog should be listening to the notification and log what should > be logged. > > > So in the following the first line should only be necessary > self notifyOfChangedCategoryFrom: oldCat to: newCat. > > changeString := subject name, ' organization renameCategory: ''', > oldCatString ,''' toBe: ''', newCatString ,''''. > SmalltalkImage current logChange: changeString > > I imagine that may be there is problem because the ChangeLog does not > listen to the right event or > it is not listening well. > Because the systemNotification worked (may be the changes you want were not > taken into account) from > when it was introduced. So could you check because I'm 100% sure that > Changeset logger was treated by roel > code just a any other client and he payed attention that if there is an > exception we do not lose the code. > Roel was picky on his code. > > Stef > > > >

July 2, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] What will be the standard browser in Pharo?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

"Ideally we would love to have a fast browser with package support:..." Notice the "ideally" and the "would" haha On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>wrote: > Stef, > > Is there a way to get the fast browser, or an image with it loaded? > > Bill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto: > pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 3:30 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] What will be the standard browser in Pharo? > > Hi oscar > > Ideally we would love to have a fast browser with package support: > - dual browser > - class extensions > - traits > - refactoring > - icons > > Now apparently OBEnhancements was a bit dirty and this is not clear what > colin will integrate or not. > Lukas has a OB version which is fast but it does not have > - dual browser > - class extensions > - traits > - icons > So david and lukas should talk a bit more and we could get the best of the > worlds. > Saturday we should have a discussion. Having a fast but powerful browser is > important and right now if the browser does not support trait then we should > remove traits from the image. > Similarly we cannot work well without class extension support and other > package related functionality. > Stef > > > > On Jul 2, 2009, at 9:07 PM, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote: > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > I am trying to port Squeak by Example to Pharo by Example. I am a bit > > confused about what is suppose dto be the standard browser now. I > > thought it was the OB Package Browser, but Damien Cassou just gave me > > a new image where the browser is an OB System Browser (Categories, not > > packages). I cannot even see any more how to switch between the two. > > > > Can someone enlighten me? (Then I can explain it in the book.) > > > > - on > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 2, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] What will be the standard browser in Pharo?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, Is there a way to get the fast browser, or an image with it loaded? Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 3:30 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] What will be the standard browser in Pharo? Hi oscar Ideally we would love to have a fast browser with package support: - dual browser - class extensions - traits - refactoring - icons Now apparently OBEnhancements was a bit dirty and this is not clear what colin will integrate or not. Lukas has a OB version which is fast but it does not have - dual browser - class extensions - traits - icons So david and lukas should talk a bit more and we could get the best of the worlds. Saturday we should have a discussion. Having a fast but powerful browser is important and right now if the browser does not support trait then we should remove traits from the image. Similarly we cannot work well without class extension support and other package related functionality. Stef On Jul 2, 2009, at 9:07 PM, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > I am trying to port Squeak by Example to Pharo by Example. I am a bit > confused about what is suppose dto be the standard browser now. I > thought it was the OB Package Browser, but Damien Cassou just gave me > a new image where the browser is an OB System Browser (Categories, not > packages). I cannot even see any more how to switch between the two. > > Can someone enlighten me? (Then I can explain it in the book.) > > - on > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 2, 2009

[Pharo-project] About the changes files fixes

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi hernan I read your code and normally the notification alone should be enough. The changelog should be listening to the notification and log what should be logged. So in the following the first line should only be necessary self notifyOfChangedCategoryFrom: oldCat to: newCat. changeString := subject name, ' organization renameCategory: ''', oldCatString ,''' toBe: ''', newCatString ,''''. SmalltalkImage current logChange: changeString I imagine that may be there is problem because the ChangeLog does not listen to the right event or it is not listening well. Because the systemNotification worked (may be the changes you want were not taken into account) from when it was introduced. So could you check because I'm 100% sure that Changeset logger was treated by roel code just a any other client and he payed attention that if there is an exception we do not lose the code. Roel was picky on his code. Stef

July 2, 2009

[Pharo-project] About change recording

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

hernan do you know if your code fixes: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=661 and http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=692 Stef

July 2, 2009