- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Why Pharo?

by Travis Kay

Being a Dolphin Pro user myself, I have to agree with Esteban and Bill on all accounts. Travis Kay -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Schwab,Wilhelm K Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:18 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Why Pharo? +100000000000000 to Esteban's comments on the Dolphin IDE - it's slick in ways that are not visually obvious. Some of it comes from speed, some from use of the good from GUI conventions, and the rest from good IDE design. -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Esteban A. Maringolo Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:59 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] Why Pharo? Hello, Mariano's post spurred me to write my reasons of "why to use it", so I started this post. >>After many hesitations (I was reluctant to use Squeak) I decided to >>use Pharo for it and not Dolphin (my favorite Smalltalk), because of >>several reasons. >would be nice to know them hehe >sorry...in another thread. - It's mainly about getting mainstream, and not willing to develop everything from scratch once and again. - At work we've developed everything by our own on VSE/Dolphin, so every time we wanted to do something, we had to build it by ourselves (most of it). We even had a Magritte like framework (years before Magritte existed), persistence, reporting, etc. Now some of them, are very mature frameworks. But I can't borrow any of them for personal use ;-) and don't want to spend a year rewriting the frameworks I've created, contributed to or used at work. - Because what I want to build is going to be web based (and I hope to get it mobile to), anything that runs on linux is good to be considered as a server solution. - So I wanted a rich class library/frameworks, in order to be able to focus on the business logic I want to build. - I wanted to have the latest versions of such frameworks, even when it's getting easier to port them (I did port Swazoo and Seaside in the past), I'm not in the mood to do it now (yes, I'm getting lazy). - Because Dolphin future is uncertain yet, DNG seems to be the next-generation VM/Smalltalk, but I can't wait until it's ready, the conditions clear ($$$) and have the above mentioned points included. - Because I like where Pharo is going to, or seems to be going. I like its mission and how its being managed (releases, issues, patches,tests). It's a solid foundation for any reliable project. - Because nothing really new has come from other really good smalltalks like VAST/Dolphin/VW, everything is getting ported, and eventually a contribution gets back to the source. I see GLASS as an "extension" of Pharo/Squeak, because it was made very compatible, and the edges in contact work very close to each other (GLASS is useless if outdated in relation with Pharo/Squeak). - Because after all, Pharo is also Smalltalk. And I rather choose it before going to other also good stuff (like Rails), or not so good as PHP/Java/DotNet) - I want to focus on the business I'm trying to solve, and forget about everything mentioned above. The only thing that keeps me remembering the stuff above, is I'm still not comfortable as I am with Dolphin, not just because of habit. Dolphin's IDE is really neat, quick, consistent, gets the stuff done and then gets out of your way. You have to use it and do some real work to understand what I'm talking about. But I'm pretty confident Pharo will achieve such level of maturity in the not so far future. I hope it clears my reasoning behind choosing Pharo. Best regards, -- Esteban _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [Moose-dev] Re: Fwd: [SEWORLD] Call for Papers: Evaluation and Usability of Programming Languages and Tools (PLATEAU) 2009

by Alexandre Bergel

> I do not expect anything from this kind of workshop. Me neither, but this workshop can be a good alternative to many other workshop at oopsla. Moreover, a 4 pages paper does not require a lot of work. Alexandre > > On Jul 21, 2009, at 8:40 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >>> I like the topic of the workshop, because I have struggled with the >>> problem of evaluating and comparing usability a lot in the past, >>> and I >>> see that Antoine and FrÃ©dÃ©ric have similar problems with their >>> research. The only thing I hope is that this workshop is not on the >>> same day as >> >> I was thinking that having a short paper on Pharo will definitely be >> of a good move. >> >>> DLS (where we'll be presenting the RoelTyper paper, that >>> got accepted after FrÃ©dÃ©ric improved the precision; watch out for >>> this >>> new version in Squeak and Pharo one of the coming days). >> >> Congratulation! >> >>> Alex, are you going to OOPSLA ? >> >> Unfortunately not. I won't attend ESUG as well. sic... >> Next year my budget will be much larger. >> >> Alexandre >> >> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre >>> Bergel<alexandre(a)bergel.eu> wrote: >>>> I like the idea of this workshop. If someone is going to OOPSLA >>>> this year, >>>> this may be interesting. >>>> If someone plan to go there, let me know. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>> >>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>> >>>>> From: Shane Markstrum <smarkstr(a)acm.org> >>>>> Date: 20 July 2009 16:40:22 GMT-04:00 >>>>> To: types-announce(a)lists.seas.upenn.edu, seworld(a)sigsoft.org, >>>>> announce(a)aosd.net, chi-announcements(a)LISTSERV.ACM.ORG, >>>>> hci-link(a)lists.uni-paderborn.de >>>>> Subject: [SEWORLD] Call for Papers: Evaluation and Usability of >>>>> Programming Languages and Tools (PLATEAU) 2009 >>>>> >>>>> Call for Papers >>>>> >>>>> PLATEAU 2009 >>>>> >>>>> First Workshop on >>>>> Evaluation and Usability of Programming Languages and Tools >>>>> (PLATEAU) >>>>> in conjunction with Onward!/OOPSLA 2009 >>>>> October 25-29, 2009 (Orlando, FL) >>>>> >>>>> http://ecs.victoria.ac.nz/Events/PLATEAU/WebHome >>>>> >>>>> SUBMISSION SITE >>>>> >>>>> http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=plateau09 >>>>> >>>>> IMPORTANT DATES >>>>> >>>>> Submission August 31 >>>>> Notification Mid-September (before close of early registration >>>>> for >>>>> OOPSLA/Onward!) >>>>> Final version TBA >>>>> Workshop TBA, one-half or one-full day between October 25 >>>>> and 29 >>>>> >>>>> SCOPE >>>>> >>>>> Programming languages exist to enable programmers to develop >>>>> software >>>>> effectively. But how efficiently programmers can write software >>>>> depends on the usability of the languages and tools that they >>>>> develop >>>>> with. The aim of this workshop is to discuss methods, metrics and >>>>> techniques for evaluating the usability of languages and language >>>>> tools. The supposed benefits of such languages and tools cover a >>>>> large >>>>> space, including making programs easier to read, write, and >>>>> maintain; >>>>> allowing programmers to write more flexible and powerful >>>>> programs; and >>>>> restricting programs to make them more safe and secure. >>>>> >>>>> We plan to gather the intersection of researchers in the >>>>> programming >>>>> language, programming tool, and human-computer interaction >>>>> communities >>>>> to share their research and discuss the future of evaluation and >>>>> usability of programming languages and tools. We are also >>>>> interested >>>>> in the input of other members of the programming research >>>>> community >>>>> working on related areas, such as refactoring, design patterns, >>>>> program analysis, program comprehension, software visualization, >>>>> end-user programming, and other programming language paradigms. >>>>> Some >>>>> particular areas of interest are: >>>>> >>>>> - empirical studies of programming languages >>>>> - methodologies and philosophies behind language and tool >>>>> evaluation >>>>> - software design metrics and their relations to the underlying >>>>> language >>>>> - user studies of language features and software engineering tools >>>>> - visual techniques for understanding programming languages >>>>> - critical comparisons of programming paradigms, such as >>>>> object-oriented vs. functional >>>>> - tools to support evaluating programming languages >>>>> >>>>> SUBMISSIONS >>>>> >>>>> Participants are invited to submit a position paper describing >>>>> their >>>>> on going work. We will accept papers (from 4 to 6 pages) that >>>>> describe >>>>> work-in-progress or recently completed work based on the themes >>>>> and >>>>> goals of the workshop or related topics, report on experiences >>>>> gained, >>>>> question accepted wisdom, raise challenging open problems, or >>>>> propose >>>>> speculative new approaches. Longer submissions will be >>>>> considered, but >>>>> all submissions must be fewer than 10 pages. >>>>> >>>>> Submissions and final papers should be formatted using the ACM >>>>> SIGPLAN >>>>> 10 point format. Templates for Word and LaTeX are available at >>>>> http://www.acm.org/sigs/sigplan/authorInformation.htm; this site >>>>> also >>>>> contains links to useful information on how to write effective >>>>> submissions. >>>>> >>>>> Accepted submissions will be made available through this website >>>>> and >>>>> workshop participants are encouraged to have read the position >>>>> papers >>>>> before attending the workshop. Participants are also asked to >>>>> prepare >>>>> a presentation to support their position paper. >>>>> >>>>> ORGANIZERS (and members of the Committee) >>>>> >>>>> Craig Anslow - Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand >>>>> Shane Markstrum - Bucknell University, USA >>>>> Emerson Murphy-Hill - University of British Columbia, Canada >>>>> >>>>> PROGRAM COMMITTEE >>>>> >>>>> Andrew Black - Portland State University, USA >>>>> Larry Constantine - University of Madeira, Portugal >>>>> Jeff Foster - University of Maryland, College Park, USA >>>>> Robert Fuhrer - IBM Research, USA >>>>> Donna Malayeri - EPFL, Switzerland/Carnegie Mellon University, USA >>>>> Stuart Marshall - Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand >>>>> Todd Millstein - University of California, Los Angeles, USA >>>>> James Noble - Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand >>>>> Ewan Tempero - University of Auckland, New Zealand >>>>> >>>>> For more information, please see the workshop website: >>>>> >>>>> http://ecs.victoria.ac.nz/Events/PLATEAU/WebHome >>>>> >>>>> ============================================================ >>>>> To contribute to SEWORLD, send your submission to >>>>> mailto:seworld@sigsoft.org >>>>> >>>>> http://www.sigsoft.org/seworld provides more >>>>> information on SEWORLD as well as a complete archive of >>>>> messages posted to the list. >>>>> ============================================================ >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

July 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [Moose-dev] Re: Fwd: [SEWORLD] Call for Papers: Evaluation and Usability of Programming Languages and Tools (PLATEAU) 2009

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I do not expect anything from this kind of workshop. Stef On Jul 21, 2009, at 8:40 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> I like the topic of the workshop, because I have struggled with the >> problem of evaluating and comparing usability a lot in the past, >> and I >> see that Antoine and FrÃ©dÃ©ric have similar problems with their >> research. The only thing I hope is that this workshop is not on the >> same day as > > I was thinking that having a short paper on Pharo will definitely be > of a good move. > >> DLS (where we'll be presenting the RoelTyper paper, that >> got accepted after FrÃ©dÃ©ric improved the precision; watch out for >> this >> new version in Squeak and Pharo one of the coming days). > > Congratulation! > >> Alex, are you going to OOPSLA ? > > Unfortunately not. I won't attend ESUG as well. sic... > Next year my budget will be much larger. > > Alexandre > > >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre >> Bergel<alexandre(a)bergel.eu> wrote: >>> I like the idea of this workshop. If someone is going to OOPSLA >>> this year, >>> this may be interesting. >>> If someone plan to go there, let me know. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> Begin forwarded message: >>> >>>> From: Shane Markstrum <smarkstr(a)acm.org> >>>> Date: 20 July 2009 16:40:22 GMT-04:00 >>>> To: types-announce(a)lists.seas.upenn.edu, seworld(a)sigsoft.org, >>>> announce(a)aosd.net, chi-announcements(a)LISTSERV.ACM.ORG, >>>> hci-link(a)lists.uni-paderborn.de >>>> Subject: [SEWORLD] Call for Papers: Evaluation and Usability of >>>> Programming Languages and Tools (PLATEAU) 2009 >>>> >>>> Call for Papers >>>> >>>> PLATEAU 2009 >>>> >>>> First Workshop on >>>> Evaluation and Usability of Programming Languages and Tools >>>> (PLATEAU) >>>> in conjunction with Onward!/OOPSLA 2009 >>>> October 25-29, 2009 (Orlando, FL) >>>> >>>> http://ecs.victoria.ac.nz/Events/PLATEAU/WebHome >>>> >>>> SUBMISSION SITE >>>> >>>> http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=plateau09 >>>> >>>> IMPORTANT DATES >>>> >>>> Submission August 31 >>>> Notification Mid-September (before close of early registration >>>> for >>>> OOPSLA/Onward!) >>>> Final version TBA >>>> Workshop TBA, one-half or one-full day between October 25 >>>> and 29 >>>> >>>> SCOPE >>>> >>>> Programming languages exist to enable programmers to develop >>>> software >>>> effectively. But how efficiently programmers can write software >>>> depends on the usability of the languages and tools that they >>>> develop >>>> with. The aim of this workshop is to discuss methods, metrics and >>>> techniques for evaluating the usability of languages and language >>>> tools. The supposed benefits of such languages and tools cover a >>>> large >>>> space, including making programs easier to read, write, and >>>> maintain; >>>> allowing programmers to write more flexible and powerful >>>> programs; and >>>> restricting programs to make them more safe and secure. >>>> >>>> We plan to gather the intersection of researchers in the >>>> programming >>>> language, programming tool, and human-computer interaction >>>> communities >>>> to share their research and discuss the future of evaluation and >>>> usability of programming languages and tools. We are also >>>> interested >>>> in the input of other members of the programming research community >>>> working on related areas, such as refactoring, design patterns, >>>> program analysis, program comprehension, software visualization, >>>> end-user programming, and other programming language paradigms. >>>> Some >>>> particular areas of interest are: >>>> >>>> - empirical studies of programming languages >>>> - methodologies and philosophies behind language and tool >>>> evaluation >>>> - software design metrics and their relations to the underlying >>>> language >>>> - user studies of language features and software engineering tools >>>> - visual techniques for understanding programming languages >>>> - critical comparisons of programming paradigms, such as >>>> object-oriented vs. functional >>>> - tools to support evaluating programming languages >>>> >>>> SUBMISSIONS >>>> >>>> Participants are invited to submit a position paper describing >>>> their >>>> on going work. We will accept papers (from 4 to 6 pages) that >>>> describe >>>> work-in-progress or recently completed work based on the themes and >>>> goals of the workshop or related topics, report on experiences >>>> gained, >>>> question accepted wisdom, raise challenging open problems, or >>>> propose >>>> speculative new approaches. Longer submissions will be >>>> considered, but >>>> all submissions must be fewer than 10 pages. >>>> >>>> Submissions and final papers should be formatted using the ACM >>>> SIGPLAN >>>> 10 point format. Templates for Word and LaTeX are available at >>>> http://www.acm.org/sigs/sigplan/authorInformation.htm; this site >>>> also >>>> contains links to useful information on how to write effective >>>> submissions. >>>> >>>> Accepted submissions will be made available through this website >>>> and >>>> workshop participants are encouraged to have read the position >>>> papers >>>> before attending the workshop. Participants are also asked to >>>> prepare >>>> a presentation to support their position paper. >>>> >>>> ORGANIZERS (and members of the Committee) >>>> >>>> Craig Anslow - Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand >>>> Shane Markstrum - Bucknell University, USA >>>> Emerson Murphy-Hill - University of British Columbia, Canada >>>> >>>> PROGRAM COMMITTEE >>>> >>>> Andrew Black - Portland State University, USA >>>> Larry Constantine - University of Madeira, Portugal >>>> Jeff Foster - University of Maryland, College Park, USA >>>> Robert Fuhrer - IBM Research, USA >>>> Donna Malayeri - EPFL, Switzerland/Carnegie Mellon University, USA >>>> Stuart Marshall - Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand >>>> Todd Millstein - University of California, Los Angeles, USA >>>> James Noble - Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand >>>> Ewan Tempero - University of Auckland, New Zealand >>>> >>>> For more information, please see the workshop website: >>>> >>>> http://ecs.victoria.ac.nz/Events/PLATEAU/WebHome >>>> >>>> ============================================================ >>>> To contribute to SEWORLD, send your submission to >>>> mailto:seworld@sigsoft.org >>>> >>>> http://www.sigsoft.org/seworld provides more >>>> information on SEWORLD as well as a complete archive of >>>> messages posted to the list. >>>> ============================================================ >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

July 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [Moose-dev] Re: Fwd: [SEWORLD] Call for Papers: Evaluation and Usability of Programming Languages and Tools (PLATEAU) 2009

by Alexandre Bergel

> I like the topic of the workshop, because I have struggled with the > problem of evaluating and comparing usability a lot in the past, and I > see that Antoine and FrÃ©dÃ©ric have similar problems with their > research. The only thing I hope is that this workshop is not on the > same day as I was thinking that having a short paper on Pharo will definitely be of a good move. > DLS (where we'll be presenting the RoelTyper paper, that > got accepted after FrÃ©dÃ©ric improved the precision; watch out for this > new version in Squeak and Pharo one of the coming days). Congratulation! > Alex, are you going to OOPSLA ? Unfortunately not. I won't attend ESUG as well. sic... Next year my budget will be much larger. Alexandre > On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre > Bergel<alexandre(a)bergel.eu> wrote: >> I like the idea of this workshop. If someone is going to OOPSLA >> this year, >> this may be interesting. >> If someone plan to go there, let me know. >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: Shane Markstrum <smarkstr(a)acm.org> >>> Date: 20 July 2009 16:40:22 GMT-04:00 >>> To: types-announce(a)lists.seas.upenn.edu, seworld(a)sigsoft.org, >>> announce(a)aosd.net, chi-announcements(a)LISTSERV.ACM.ORG, >>> hci-link(a)lists.uni-paderborn.de >>> Subject: [SEWORLD] Call for Papers: Evaluation and Usability of >>> Programming Languages and Tools (PLATEAU) 2009 >>> >>> Call for Papers >>> >>> PLATEAU 2009 >>> >>> First Workshop on >>> Evaluation and Usability of Programming Languages and Tools >>> (PLATEAU) >>> in conjunction with Onward!/OOPSLA 2009 >>> October 25-29, 2009 (Orlando, FL) >>> >>> http://ecs.victoria.ac.nz/Events/PLATEAU/WebHome >>> >>> SUBMISSION SITE >>> >>> http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=plateau09 >>> >>> IMPORTANT DATES >>> >>> Submission August 31 >>> Notification Mid-September (before close of early registration for >>> OOPSLA/Onward!) >>> Final version TBA >>> Workshop TBA, one-half or one-full day between October 25 >>> and 29 >>> >>> SCOPE >>> >>> Programming languages exist to enable programmers to develop >>> software >>> effectively. But how efficiently programmers can write software >>> depends on the usability of the languages and tools that they >>> develop >>> with. The aim of this workshop is to discuss methods, metrics and >>> techniques for evaluating the usability of languages and language >>> tools. The supposed benefits of such languages and tools cover a >>> large >>> space, including making programs easier to read, write, and >>> maintain; >>> allowing programmers to write more flexible and powerful programs; >>> and >>> restricting programs to make them more safe and secure. >>> >>> We plan to gather the intersection of researchers in the programming >>> language, programming tool, and human-computer interaction >>> communities >>> to share their research and discuss the future of evaluation and >>> usability of programming languages and tools. We are also interested >>> in the input of other members of the programming research community >>> working on related areas, such as refactoring, design patterns, >>> program analysis, program comprehension, software visualization, >>> end-user programming, and other programming language paradigms. Some >>> particular areas of interest are: >>> >>> - empirical studies of programming languages >>> - methodologies and philosophies behind language and tool evaluation >>> - software design metrics and their relations to the underlying >>> language >>> - user studies of language features and software engineering tools >>> - visual techniques for understanding programming languages >>> - critical comparisons of programming paradigms, such as >>> object-oriented vs. functional >>> - tools to support evaluating programming languages >>> >>> SUBMISSIONS >>> >>> Participants are invited to submit a position paper describing their >>> on going work. We will accept papers (from 4 to 6 pages) that >>> describe >>> work-in-progress or recently completed work based on the themes and >>> goals of the workshop or related topics, report on experiences >>> gained, >>> question accepted wisdom, raise challenging open problems, or >>> propose >>> speculative new approaches. Longer submissions will be considered, >>> but >>> all submissions must be fewer than 10 pages. >>> >>> Submissions and final papers should be formatted using the ACM >>> SIGPLAN >>> 10 point format. Templates for Word and LaTeX are available at >>> http://www.acm.org/sigs/sigplan/authorInformation.htm; this site >>> also >>> contains links to useful information on how to write effective >>> submissions. >>> >>> Accepted submissions will be made available through this website and >>> workshop participants are encouraged to have read the position >>> papers >>> before attending the workshop. Participants are also asked to >>> prepare >>> a presentation to support their position paper. >>> >>> ORGANIZERS (and members of the Committee) >>> >>> Craig Anslow - Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand >>> Shane Markstrum - Bucknell University, USA >>> Emerson Murphy-Hill - University of British Columbia, Canada >>> >>> PROGRAM COMMITTEE >>> >>> Andrew Black - Portland State University, USA >>> Larry Constantine - University of Madeira, Portugal >>> Jeff Foster - University of Maryland, College Park, USA >>> Robert Fuhrer - IBM Research, USA >>> Donna Malayeri - EPFL, Switzerland/Carnegie Mellon University, USA >>> Stuart Marshall - Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand >>> Todd Millstein - University of California, Los Angeles, USA >>> James Noble - Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand >>> Ewan Tempero - University of Auckland, New Zealand >>> >>> For more information, please see the workshop website: >>> >>> http://ecs.victoria.ac.nz/Events/PLATEAU/WebHome >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> To contribute to SEWORLD, send your submission to >>> mailto:seworld@sigsoft.org >>> >>> http://www.sigsoft.org/seworld provides more >>> information on SEWORLD as well as a complete archive of >>> messages posted to the list. >>> ============================================================ >>> >>> >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

July 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] VersionHistory and VersionNumber

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

the numbering is important (now I do not these specific classes). stef On Jul 21, 2009, at 7:36 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > Does anybody use these two classes? Are they worth being kept in the > core (there are no users in the core)? > > Class comment: A version history is a collection of VersionNumbers > that together form a tree of versions. I enforce rules about how > versions are added and removed from the history. > > Adrian > ___________________ > http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] HostSystemMenuTest MNU

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Yes, and here are some comments: http://n2.nabble.com/Pharo-platform-dependency-%28or-Seaside-one-click%29-t… On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 5:36 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > I recognize john method > > > On Jul 21, 2009, at 7:23 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > > > Hi Marcus, > > > > In the test below, which has your initials, the following methods are > > not understood. > > > > calculateShouldBeFrom:using: and modifySqueakMenu: > > > > Maybe you know where to get these methods from, how to implement them, > > or if we should rather delete the test? > > > > Cheers, > > Adrian > > > > HostSystemMenuTest>>testCharacterChanging > > | testString item shouldBe resultingString where | > > #(';' '^' '!' '<' '/' '(' ) > > do: [:c | #('*' '* ' '* ' '**' '** ' '** ' > > ')' '*)' '* )' '* )' '**)' '** )' '** )' > > ')' '*)' '*X)' '*XX)' '**)' '**X)' '**XX)' > > '))' '*))' '*X))' '*XX))' '**))' '**X))' '**XX))' > > '(' '*(' '*X(' '*XX(' '**)' '**X(' '**XX(' > > '((' '*((' '*X((' '*XX((' '**((' '**X((' '**XX((' > > ) > > do: [:template | > > testString := template > copyReplaceAll: '*' with: c. > > testString > > permutationsDo: [:mixedUp | > > item := mixedUp > copy. > > shouldBe := self > calculateShouldBeFrom: item using: c. > > resultingString := > self modifySqueakMenu: item copy. > > self should: > [shouldBe = resultingString]. > > (where := > resultingString indexOf: $/) > 0 > > ifTrue: > [self should: [(mixedUp at: where) = $(]. > > > self should: [(mixedUp at: where+2) = $)]. > > > self should: [(mixedUp at: where+1) asUppercase = > > (resultingString at: where+1)]]]]] > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] HostSystemMenuTest MNU

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I recognize john method On Jul 21, 2009, at 7:23 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > Hi Marcus, > > In the test below, which has your initials, the following methods are > not understood. > > calculateShouldBeFrom:using: and modifySqueakMenu: > > Maybe you know where to get these methods from, how to implement them, > or if we should rather delete the test? > > Cheers, > Adrian > > HostSystemMenuTest>>testCharacterChanging > | testString item shouldBe resultingString where | > #(';' '^' '!' '<' '/' '(' ) > do: [:c | #('*' '* ' '* ' '**' '** ' '** ' > ')' '*)' '* )' '* )' '**)' '** )' '** )' > ')' '*)' '*X)' '*XX)' '**)' '**X)' '**XX)' > '))' '*))' '*X))' '*XX))' '**))' '**X))' '**XX))' > '(' '*(' '*X(' '*XX(' '**)' '**X(' '**XX(' > '((' '*((' '*X((' '*XX((' '**((' '**X((' '**XX((' > ) > do: [:template | > testString := template copyReplaceAll: '*' with: c. > testString > permutationsDo: [:mixedUp | > item := mixedUp copy. > shouldBe := self calculateShouldBeFrom: item using: c. > resultingString := self modifySqueakMenu: item copy. > self should: [shouldBe = resultingString]. > (where := resultingString indexOf: $/) > 0 > ifTrue: [self should: [(mixedUp at: where) = $(]. > self should: [(mixedUp at: where+2) = $)]. > self should: [(mixedUp at: where+1) asUppercase = > (resultingString at: where+1)]]]]] > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Show stopper network bug on Windows

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Yes we do not have a windows at hand. can you let us know from which update the problem is related. > In this case the first step woud be to identify which update > introduced the problem. > > Suppose that a core #10200 image still works, you could do: > > 10200 to: 10384 do: [ :i | > Utilities updateFromServerThroughUpdateNumber: i. > NetNameResolver localHostAddress ] > > And then see after which update number the first exception is thrown. > I did not test this, but it should work. > > Adrian

July 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Why Pharo?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks let us know how we can improve too. I will take time but chicken little by chicken little we will make it :) On Jul 21, 2009, at 5:59 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote: > Hello, > > Mariano's post spurred me to write my reasons of "why to use it", so I > started this post. > >>> After many hesitations (I was reluctant to use Squeak) I decided to >>> use Pharo for it and not Dolphin (my favorite Smalltalk), because of >>> several reasons. >> would be nice to know them hehe >> sorry...in another thread. > > - It's mainly about getting mainstream, and not willing to develop > everything from scratch once and again. > > - At work we've developed everything by our own on VSE/Dolphin, so > every time we wanted to do something, we had to build it by ourselves > (most of it). We even had a Magritte like framework (years before > Magritte existed), persistence, reporting, etc. Now some of them, are > very mature frameworks. But I can't borrow any of them for personal > use ;-) and don't want to spend a year rewriting the frameworks I've > created, contributed to or used at work. > > - Because what I want to build is going to be web based (and I hope to > get it mobile to), anything that runs on linux is good to be > considered as a server solution. > > - So I wanted a rich class library/frameworks, in order to be able to > focus on the business logic I want to build. > > - I wanted to have the latest versions of such frameworks, even when > it's getting easier to port them (I did port Swazoo and Seaside in the > past), I'm not in the mood to do it now (yes, I'm getting lazy). > > - Because Dolphin future is uncertain yet, DNG seems to be the > next-generation VM/Smalltalk, but I can't wait until it's ready, the > conditions clear ($$$) and have the above mentioned points included. > > - Because I like where Pharo is going to, or seems to be going. I like > its mission and how its being managed (releases, issues, > patches,tests). It's a solid foundation for any reliable project. > > - Because nothing really new has come from other really good > smalltalks like VAST/Dolphin/VW, everything is getting ported, and > eventually a contribution gets back to the source. I see GLASS as an > "extension" of Pharo/Squeak, because it was made very compatible, and > the edges in contact work very close to each other (GLASS is useless > if outdated in relation with Pharo/Squeak). > > - Because after all, Pharo is also Smalltalk. And I rather choose it > before going to other also good stuff (like Rails), or not so good as > PHP/Java/DotNet) > > - I want to focus on the business I'm trying to solve, and forget > about everything mentioned above. > > The only thing that keeps me remembering the stuff above, is I'm still > not comfortable as I am with Dolphin, not just because of habit. > Dolphin's IDE is really neat, quick, consistent, gets the stuff done > and then gets out of your way. > You have to use it and do some real work to understand what I'm > talking about. > But I'm pretty confident Pharo will achieve such level of maturity in > the not so far future. > > I hope it clears my reasoning behind choosing Pharo. > > > Best regards, > > > -- > Esteban > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] KnownLands: a Class dependency explorer

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I would really to see that. Recently I was thinking that I would like to have a "daisy" browser one code pane in the middle and around Large icons for sender, implementer .. results. On Jul 21, 2009, at 5:17 PM, David Goehrig wrote: > On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 7:40 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > > wrote: > > Fernando told me that he wants to program in 3d its objects/class so I > imagine that what you want is > the "same" looking at browsing coding in a different way. > > Pretty much along those lines yes. What I'm working on is building > the sorts of systems that work well for programming "in the round" > where you cover the walls of your meeting room with projectors, and > multiple groups of people can directly collaborate on code, test it, > and run it right there. The classic code browser approach doesn't > lend itself to multiple people editing and manipulating the code at > the same time, it is designed for a single user on a screen with > limited real estate. > > The other issue is that the browser environment hides too much > complexity, and so it doesn't scale up when you can use gigantic > displays with infinite virtual space. I've done 2 initial versions > of the interface in Javascript and Forth, and am working on porting > the environment to Pharo. I think Pharo Smalltalk + a new editor > designed for tele-team programming would be a very compelling > platform for a lot of distributed projects. The past few years, > every project I've consulted for involved programmers in at least 5 > time zones. Our tools really need to better reflect that reality. :) > > Dave > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- http://blog.dloh.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 21, 2009