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Re: [Pharo-project] getting rid of these boring questions and popup

by Philippe Marschall

Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > One of the things that set me off was "I think this whole 80ies style browser that's based on scrolling, clicking and popups doesn't cut it anymore and adding more tabs and buttons isn't gonna fix it." Imagine our collective foolishness using scrollbars and other familiar GUI metaphors, and telling a user they might be about to do something they might regret ;) Certainly prompts for confirmation can get out of hand and become counter-productive (that is afterall the subject of this thread). When I know where I want to go (class, method, ...) I am far faster there in Eclipse than in a Smalltalk browser. A big part of that is scrolling and clicking. Because these are unnecessary actions that just take time. Take the Firefox Awsome Bar as an example. Let's say you want to visit a site that you have visited before. You go to the Awsome Bar (shortcut Ctrl + L) and type part of the title. A list that is automatically filtered is displayed and you can select from there. Compare that with opening the bookmarks menu, selecting the right category, and then searching for the right entry. You don't notice how cool and useful this is until you switch to an other browser that doesn't have this like Safari. An other good example is the Spotlight Search in Mac OS. Staring an application, opening a document, ..., everything just a few key strokes away. No scrolling, no clicking. Code browsing should be like this and Eclipse is far closer to this than the Smalltalk browser. > However, you went on to say "Short anecdote, I our current project we don't ask the user for confirmation, ever." Taken all together, it sounds wreckless to me. Based on analysis of how the users used to old software. The pop ups just prevented them from getting work done. The didn't read them, really, often they just clicked them away before they were fully rendered. As soon as they want their pop ups back we put them back. So far nobody did. Cheers Philippe

Sept. 13, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Network cleanup?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, I wish I could answer that. I think some of the reports were false due to forgotten #initializeNetwork; that should not be happening to me now (my session manager should be doing it on startup), and I've tested with explicit initialization anyway. The name size primitive blows up, and since that is used as the sentinel for needing the old network, calling it with the old network in use (as happens) seems wrong. My thought is to herd all of the new and old code into separate classes so we (maybe just I) can keep it straight enough to figure out what is wrong. I just finished some exercise during which I realized that there is no reason to touch NetNameResolver; we can create something separate to replace it, and even faÃ§ade same from NetNameResolver for legacy code. Since the current code is broken, a complete faÃ§ade will be impossible, but the most common entry points could be provided. What do you think? Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 1:14 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Network cleanup? would be good to fix that network problem. What is the status? Is it related to the vm or not? Stef On Sep 13, 2009, at 7:59 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > I'm still having trouble with DNS on Ubuntu, and it seems to be IPv6 > related. However, it gets very ugly to try to figure out what does > and does not (or is that should and should not?) depend on the > #useOldNetwork test. Would there be any objections to a split of > NetNameResolver to have have new and old subclasses, with the correct > class being chosen (or sub-instance created) on initialization? > > I was able to get around the troubles today by noting that (for now) I > have trouble iff I am on a Linux local host, but that trick will come > to an abrupt end soon. > > Bill > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 13, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] getting rid of these boring questions and popup

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Em 11/09/2009 18:32, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> escreveu: > Yes, the popups should go away - far away :) A code mentor pane > with lint rule violations would be greatly appreciated, but the > modal messages are too much. Sometimes I want to save code that I > know will generate errors, with reasons ranging from "I'll let it > blow up and choose to implement it from the debugger" to "don't want > to lose this, so let's get it accepted before I do something > stupid." I think Bill here has an interesting point: there are lots of references on Smalltalk programming that advocate this kind of development. So it makes sense we could have some 'selection' mechanism on how Pharo should behave pertaining the the way this info is shown during the develpment session.

Sept. 13, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Network cleanup?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

would be good to fix that network problem. What is the status? Is it related to the vm or not? Stef On Sep 13, 2009, at 7:59 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > I'm still having trouble with DNS on Ubuntu, and it seems to be IPv6 > related. However, it gets very ugly to try to figure out what does > and does not (or is that should and should not?) depend on the > #useOldNetwork test. Would there be any objections to a split of > NetNameResolver to have have new and old subclasses, with the > correct class being chosen (or sub-instance created) on > initialization? > > I was able to get around the troubles today by noting that (for now) > I have trouble iff I am on a Linux local host, but that trick will > come to an abrupt end soon. > > Bill > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 13, 2009

[Pharo-project] Network cleanup?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

I'm still having trouble with DNS on Ubuntu, and it seems to be IPv6 related. However, it gets very ugly to try to figure out what does and does not (or is that should and should not?) depend on the #useOldNetwork test. Would there be any objections to a split of NetNameResolver to have have new and old subclasses, with the correct class being chosen (or sub-instance created) on initialization? I was able to get around the troubles today by noting that (for now) I have trouble iff I am on a Linux local host, but that trick will come to an abrupt end soon. Bill

Sept. 13, 2009

[Pharo-project] [update] #10448 and 10449

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

should work now :) (I hope at least the tests are green) 10448 ----- Merging Monticello-rej.309 pseudo actomic loading and ar.321 from trunk 10449 ----- - Issue 1129: UIManager #request: and #multilineRequest do not distinguish between empty and cancel - Polymorph Widgets Enh Added IncrementalSliderMorph. Minor fixes. Extra convenience method for auto accept text. Refactored bracket sliders. Use 0 border width for theme created image morphs. Retain font for PluggableButtonMorphs that have pluggable labels. Disable keyboard navigation for IncrementalSliderMorph buttons. IncrementalSliderMorph resilient to model absence. General fixes for absent model with respect to enablement. Pluggable enablement support for PluggableSliderMorph. Enablement support for IncrementalSliderMorph. Fixes for slider enablement. Fix for DNU on theme change with labelless PluggableButtonMorphs. - Issue 1209: PluggableButtonMorph nil label

Sept. 13, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [update] #10447 and 10448

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I unrolled 10448 If sombody wants to help you can find the changes in the latest MC packge on the pharo repository. Stef On Sep 13, 2009, at 5:56 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Apparently this changes breaks MC ;( > After this changes when we load a package the code does not get > installed in the system > so this is the safest atomic loader ever > I will try to fix it. > > Stef > > > On Sep 13, 2009, at 5:21 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> >> >> 10447 >> ----- >> >> - Issue 1212: MCenhancement: >> - jf: Add methods should return their parameter >> - removing reference to ChangeSorter (UI) instead of >> ChangesOrganizer >> (model) >> >> 10448 >> ----- >> >> - Trying to merge Monticello-rej.309 >> pseudo actomic loading (required to make ar.321) >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 13, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [update] #10447 and 10448

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Apparently this changes breaks MC ;( After this changes when we load a package the code does not get installed in the system so this is the safest atomic loader ever I will try to fix it. Stef On Sep 13, 2009, at 5:21 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > > 10447 > ----- > > - Issue 1212: MCenhancement: > - jf: Add methods should return their parameter > - removing reference to ChangeSorter (UI) instead of ChangesOrganizer > (model) > > 10448 > ----- > > - Trying to merge Monticello-rej.309 > pseudo actomic loading (required to make ar.321) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 13, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] getting rid of these boring questions and popup

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, One comment: they are more than boring, they are **annoying** :) Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 10:42 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] getting rid of these boring questions and popup Guys you may not have noticed it but I would love to get the code to remove these boring popups :) Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 13, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] getting rid of these boring questions and popup

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

One of the things that set me off was "I think this whole 80ies style browser that's based on scrolling, clicking and popups doesn't cut it anymore and adding more tabs and buttons isn't gonna fix it." Imagine our collective foolishness using scrollbars and other familiar GUI metaphors, and telling a user they might be about to do something they might regret ;) Certainly prompts for confirmation can get out of hand and become counter-productive (that is afterall the subject of this thread). However, you went on to say "Short anecdote, I our current project we don't ask the user for confirmation, ever." Taken all together, it sounds wreckless to me. -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Philippe Marschall Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 10:23 AM To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] getting rid of these boring questions and popup Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Since you ask, LOTS of experience with very similar claims that turned out to be bogus. You did ask. Now would you like to debate the points I rasised? What's there to discuss when my argument is "it works in practice" and your argument is "I have never tried it but here's why it doesn't work" (which basically boils down to it's not Dolphin)? Cheers Philippe _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 13, 2009