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[Pharo-project] String = Symbol

by Nicolas Cellier

For the sake of curiosity, I gave a try to: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=331 Instead of breaking the image, or tracking the senders of = (not my cup of tea), I simply instrumented my image with a Notification, and caught it with a MessageTally. This showed that String = Symbol is used in the #intern: / #lookup: process These are the method that check if such a Symbol equal to that String already exist or not, so as to guarantee uniqueness of Symbol. This is the first equality to be cleaned up before making any other change in the image. Beware, implementation of such core method should care of speed ! (See issue 331) If anyone one else wanna report other String=Symbol use case, welcome, the instrumentation is available in 331. Nicolas

Oct. 13, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] ODBC

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Mariano, Re startup and shutdown, please have a look at this: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/StartupAndShutdown I will resist the temptation to re-state a lot of it here, because we should improve the above so we can make a decision. A syntax-colored export indeed connects with ODBC :) I need to scan the code for anything that should not be released, and comments are likely offenders. If I can get the whole thing as one sprawlign html document with the comments in green, it would be easier to gain confidence that the code is "clean". The ODBC code itself will be fine, but anything containing older code needs to be checked. Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 12:27 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ODBC 2009/10/13 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> Hello all, I had no idea I left such an inaccurate impression, but on re-reading what I wrote, it could be taken as though I sought to compete with Diego - sorry about that all around. No no. I didn get that impressiont. I just asked because I wanted to know the differences :) Don't worry. Let's try this again: I found Diego's work lacking the ability to query table names and field names/types, wrote code to those things, and plan to make it available. Think of it as being an addition to Diego's package; the two can be merged. One thing I do not like about Squeak/Pharo in general is the whacked up way it mixes snapshots with startup and shutdown. I don't understand this. If I were to spin off of a new ODBC package, it would be to fix that. The porting to which I referred is code that runs on top of OBBC, sockets, etc. That goes fairly well, and will spin off some collective benefits with time. As I said some time back, the best thing I can do to help with Pharo is to get myself hooked on it, at which point I will begin writing tools that would be of general interest. It would help a lot to have a good way to export syntax colored code (HTML??) from MC packages. I don't understand whot this is related with ODBC :( My concern is that I might have comments that need to be removed for release. I live under a few non-disclosure agreements, and it would be bad to have a stray comment violate one of them. I am pretty careful about that now, but every so often find something that would have been more wisely placed outside of my code. The worst news I have is that when I tried to move code into the October web image, the image refused to open an ODBC connection. In fact, the vm just crashed w/o writing diagnostic info to a file. I retreated to my current (July) image, and have been distracted with lots of progress on some complex fronts; however, I do need to get back to trying to identify the source of the crash. yeah, I remember :( Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:02 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ODBC I would also like to know the difference (advantages and disadvatages) of Bill's driver and the one of Diego Gomez Deck which is: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/2480 http://www.squeaksource.com/ODBC.html Best, Mariano On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:38 PM, Carlos Crosetti <carlos(a)mostar.com.ar<mailto:carlos@mostar.com.ar>> wrote: How is the ODBC port to Pharo going on? -----Mensaje original----- De: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>]En nombre de Schwab,Wilhelm K Enviado el: Martes, 01 de Septiembre de 2009 05:15 p.m. Para: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Asunto: [Pharo-project] ODBCWarning The porting continues... It is getting closer to doing something. It just raised an ODBCWarning about the server changing the language to us_english. Any ideas? Either I do not care or should set it up front?? One thing really surprised me, and note that I might have brought this on myself (though I think that is unlikely) by messing with startup and shutdown: the ODBCLibrary was stubbornly clinging to the Linux library from my home machine. I finally used ODBCLibrary default initialize. which seemed to put an end to the separation anxiety. Is there a better fix? I suppose I should try this in a clean image to see if there is really a problem therein, but that will be a little hard to do without a lot of my code, almost any of which either depends on changes I have made or could have caused the problem. Maybe I should ask whether some of you use ODBC on Windows and Linux and have no problems moving between the machines. Bill _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1323 - Release Date: 10/03/2008 11:07 a.m. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 13, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] ODBC

by Mariano Martinez Peck

2009/10/13 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> > Hello all, > > I had no idea I left such an inaccurate impression, but on re-reading what > I wrote, it could be taken as though I sought to compete with Diego - sorry > about that all around. > No no. I didn get that impressiont. I just asked because I wanted to know the differences :) Don't worry. > Let's try this again: > > I found Diego's work lacking the ability to query table names and field > names/types, wrote code to those things, and plan to make it available. > Think of it as being an addition to Diego's package; the two can be merged. > > One thing I do not like about Squeak/Pharo in general is the whacked up way > it mixes > snapshots with startup and shutdown. > I don't understand this. > If I were to spin off of a new ODBC package, it would be to fix that. > > The porting to which I referred is code that runs on top of OBBC, sockets, > etc. That goes fairly well, and will spin off some collective benefits with > time. As I said some time back, the best thing I can do to help with Pharo > is to get myself hooked on it, at which point I will begin writing tools > that would be of general interest. > > It would help a lot to have a good way to export syntax colored code > (HTML??) from MC packages. > I don't understand whot this is related with ODBC :( > My concern is that I might have comments that need to be removed for > release. I live under a few non-disclosure agreements, and it would be bad > to have a stray comment violate one of them. I am pretty careful about that > now, but every so often find something that would have been more wisely > placed outside of my code. > > The worst news I have is that when I tried to move code into the October > web image, the image refused to open an ODBC connection. In fact, the vm > just crashed w/o writing diagnostic info to a file. I retreated to my > current (July) image, and have been distracted with lots of progress on some > complex fronts; however, I do need to get back to trying to identify the > source of the crash. > > yeah, I remember :( > Bill > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto: > pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] *On Behalf Of *Mariano > Martinez Peck > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:02 AM > *To:* Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-project] ODBC > > I would also like to know the difference (advantages and disadvatages) of > Bill's driver and the one of Diego Gomez Deck which is: > > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/2480 > http://www.squeaksource.com/ODBC.html > > Best, > > Mariano > > On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:38 PM, Carlos Crosetti <carlos(a)mostar.com.ar>wrote: > >> How is the ODBC port to Pharo going on? >> >> -----Mensaje original----- >> De: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr]En nombre de >> Schwab,Wilhelm K >> Enviado el: Martes, 01 de Septiembre de 2009 05:15 p.m. >> Para: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Asunto: [Pharo-project] ODBCWarning >> >> >> The porting continues... It is getting closer to doing something. It >> just >> raised an ODBCWarning about the server changing the language to >> us_english. >> Any ideas? Either I do not care or should set it up front?? >> >> One thing really surprised me, and note that I might have brought this on >> myself (though I think that is unlikely) by messing with startup and >> shutdown: the ODBCLibrary was stubbornly clinging to the Linux library >> from >> my home machine. I finally used >> >> ODBCLibrary default initialize. >> >> which seemed to put an end to the separation anxiety. Is there a better >> fix? I suppose I should try this in a clean image to see if there is >> really >> a problem therein, but that will be a little hard to do without a lot of >> my >> code, almost any of which either depends on changes I have made or could >> have caused the problem. >> >> Maybe I should ask whether some of you use ODBC on Windows and Linux and >> have no problems moving between the machines. >> >> Bill >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> >> -- >> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1323 - Release Date: >> 10/03/2008 >> 11:07 a.m. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Oct. 13, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] ODBC

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Hello all, I had no idea I left such an inaccurate impression, but on re-reading what I wrote, it could be taken as though I sought to compete with Diego - sorry about that all around. Let's try this again: I found Diego's work lacking the ability to query table names and field names/types, wrote code to those things, and plan to make it available. Think of it as being an addition to Diego's package; the two can be merged. One thing I do not like about Squeak/Pharo in general is the whacked up way it mixes snapshots with startup and shutdown. If I were to spin off of a new ODBC package, it would be to fix that. The porting to which I referred is code that runs on top of OBBC, sockets, etc. That goes fairly well, and will spin off some collective benefits with time. As I said some time back, the best thing I can do to help with Pharo is to get myself hooked on it, at which point I will begin writing tools that would be of general interest. It would help a lot to have a good way to export syntax colored code (HTML??) from MC packages. My concern is that I might have comments that need to be removed for release. I live under a few non-disclosure agreements, and it would be bad to have a stray comment violate one of them. I am pretty careful about that now, but every so often find something that would have been more wisely placed outside of my code. The worst news I have is that when I tried to move code into the October web image, the image refused to open an ODBC connection. In fact, the vm just crashed w/o writing diagnostic info to a file. I retreated to my current (July) image, and have been distracted with lots of progress on some complex fronts; however, I do need to get back to trying to identify the source of the crash. Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:02 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ODBC I would also like to know the difference (advantages and disadvatages) of Bill's driver and the one of Diego Gomez Deck which is: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/2480 http://www.squeaksource.com/ODBC.html Best, Mariano On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:38 PM, Carlos Crosetti <carlos(a)mostar.com.ar<mailto:carlos@mostar.com.ar>> wrote: How is the ODBC port to Pharo going on? -----Mensaje original----- De: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>]En nombre de Schwab,Wilhelm K Enviado el: Martes, 01 de Septiembre de 2009 05:15 p.m. Para: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Asunto: [Pharo-project] ODBCWarning The porting continues... It is getting closer to doing something. It just raised an ODBCWarning about the server changing the language to us_english. Any ideas? Either I do not care or should set it up front?? One thing really surprised me, and note that I might have brought this on myself (though I think that is unlikely) by messing with startup and shutdown: the ODBCLibrary was stubbornly clinging to the Linux library from my home machine. I finally used ODBCLibrary default initialize. which seemed to put an end to the separation anxiety. Is there a better fix? I suppose I should try this in a clean image to see if there is really a problem therein, but that will be a little hard to do without a lot of my code, almost any of which either depends on changes I have made or could have caused the problem. Maybe I should ask whether some of you use ODBC on Windows and Linux and have no problems moving between the machines. Bill _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1323 - Release Date: 10/03/2008 11:07 a.m. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 13, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Preparing the sprint

by keith

> > I expressed myself bad, that claim for newcomers is a general rule in > other open source projects (not Pharo fortunately), when they enter a > mailing list, they do not know the project's history and start > "spamming" with already answered topics. And that is exactly what killed off 3.11 Keith

Oct. 13, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Preparing the sprint

by keith

On 13 Oct 2009, at 07:43, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > Stef wrote: >> For example I tried to check the SUnitextensions and I could not >> find them. > > http://www.squeaksource.com/SUnitExtensions ?! > > Bye > T. The above repository is nothing to do with me. I used http://www.squeaksource.com/Testing Keith

Oct. 13, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Preparing the sprint

by keith

> > > You can replace Sake but RIO, Sunit extensions (if you find it) So you are the lead on pharo and you have never used universes? Sorry but using I cant find SUnitExtensions when the package is and has always been called "SUnit-improved" as an excuse is is totally ridiculous. > Are my answer satisfactory? > Now I have a question: > - do you use sake personnally? > - do you have positive experience? > - did you check the code? what is your feedback? > - is there tests? > - what do you think about task definition pros and cons? I have no idea what you mean by this question. This is all backwards. Your questions are all demonstrating the old pharo code snobbery which really isn't relevant to the argument at all. The whole point is to have a plan and a vision that people work towards so that we end up with a coherent solution that does what we and the community need. If something is not quite up to scratch then you/me/anyone can join in and contribute to bring it up to speed. Code snobs are welcome and helpful, if they contribute, rather than compete. Rejecting things just because its a few tests short is simply demonstrating a lack of interest in the overall concept. The repositories are open and have always been open for you to contribute to. Let me outline the basics of the plan... I cant say whether these things work in pharo or not. 0. Installer = for bootstrapping stuff anywhere including kernel minimal gui-less images. (gofer whatever that is, is not for kernel images, so you havent got anything to fulfill this role) If you were committed to not undermining the vision of "the DSM for installing things", you would develop gofer as InstallerGofer available via Installer gofer addPackage: 'PackageA'; latest; quietly; install. Then you would have the same functionality, but you would be contributing to the vision rather than setting up as competition from the outset. You would also have additional benefits such as tools for loading Gofer in all forks, see 0a below. 0a InstallerScripts for bootstrapping stuff with scripts that may differ in different forks. (ScriptLoader is a pharo only hack - so you haven't got anything to fulfil this role either) 1. Monticello, Monticello Configurations, and PackageInfo = the same in all forks, with all forks merged so that we can move MC forward with Atomic loading and binary loading. 2. SUnit - same in all forks, with categorisation of tests, tagging as to what works where. 3. LPF for bootstrapping and loading all of the above in all forks. 4. Sake (vision = minimal support for tasks with dependencies) It doesnt matter if you dont like a single bytecode of the sake code, the principle is "a package that gives the minimal support for make like task graphs". If you happen to be a make/rake expert, then enter the dialog and tell me what I am doing wrong, we could start again from scratch if you like, I don't care. But please DONT compete for the sake of it. 5. Sake/Packages (minimal gui-less package manager available in all forks) defining what works where. Again, if you don't like it, enter the dialog, and help, don't judge from afar. Sake/Packages may not be perfect, but it has done better than any other previous squeak dependency manager. The API is better than Metacello, and its easier to use, and more versatile. So, if you don't deliver something similar to this plan, AND deliver it in all forks with equivalent functionality, then whatever you do undermines this vison for everyone. This is exactly what has happened. The vision has been undermined to the point of being hounded out of existence. This email is the last death throe. Hence the reason that I have been speaking up, repeatedly, the vision is now pretty much completely undermined and almost gone, because it is unsustainable. It is unsustainable because the leaders in our community will not put any commitment to any visions other than their own, and those for the most part only exist in their own heads. (i.e. when you or andreas sit down to decide what bug to fix, or what you are going to refactor there is no published detailed plan you are working to) You apparently loaded MC1.5 once, (whereas I have been using it for 2 years) and decided that it left lots of loose ends, the reason was because you didnt unload the previous version of MC correctly. Your version of collaborating with people on a plan, is to poke around in squeaksource on your own, load a package that you think is the right one, and when it doesnt work, simply tell everyone that you couldnt find it. Perhaps you are still in the dark ages, when we didnt have irc or a package manager for squeak which understood dependencies. All you have to do in an LPF image is Installer install: 'Packages'. and you would be able to load SUnit-improved without a problem. We have had all of this stuff working for all of the time I have been trying to persuade you to use it. Keith

Oct. 13, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] ODBC

by Mariano Martinez Peck

I would also like to know the difference (advantages and disadvatages) of Bill's driver and the one of Diego Gomez Deck which is: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/2480 http://www.squeaksource.com/ODBC.html Best, Mariano On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:38 PM, Carlos Crosetti <carlos(a)mostar.com.ar>wrote: > How is the ODBC port to Pharo going on? > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr]En nombre de > Schwab,Wilhelm K > Enviado el: Martes, 01 de Septiembre de 2009 05:15 p.m. > Para: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Asunto: [Pharo-project] ODBCWarning > > > The porting continues... It is getting closer to doing something. It just > raised an ODBCWarning about the server changing the language to us_english. > Any ideas? Either I do not care or should set it up front?? > > One thing really surprised me, and note that I might have brought this on > myself (though I think that is unlikely) by messing with startup and > shutdown: the ODBCLibrary was stubbornly clinging to the Linux library from > my home machine. I finally used > > ODBCLibrary default initialize. > > which seemed to put an end to the separation anxiety. Is there a better > fix? I suppose I should try this in a clean image to see if there is > really > a problem therein, but that will be a little hard to do without a lot of my > code, almost any of which either depends on changes I have made or could > have caused the problem. > > Maybe I should ask whether some of you use ODBC on Windows and Linux and > have no problems moving between the machines. > > Bill > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1323 - Release Date: 10/03/2008 > 11:07 a.m. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Oct. 13, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Default String encoding when storing to file?

by Henrik Johansen

Mariano Martinez Peck skrev: > > WOW!!! I run it here in a Windows XP 1GB RAM and these are the results: > > str storeOn: (FileStream newFileNamed: 'test22.txt'). > Time millisecondsToRun: [|fs| > fs := FileStream oldFileNamed: 'test22.txt'. > 50000 timesRepeat: [str storeOn: fs]. > fs close]. 84022 > > str storeOn2: (FileStream newFileNamed: 'test2.txt'). > Time millisecondsToRun: [|fs| > fs := FileStream oldFileNamed: 'test2.txt'. > 50000 timesRepeat: [str storeOn2: fs]. > fs close]. 4990 > > BIG DIFFERENCE > Yeah, writing one char at a time (plus, when doing that, the broken nextPut: primitive) isn't exactly performant :P Btw, it works fine for Widestrings too when using storeOn: internally (in printString f.ex.), but not when writing them to file. :/ Plus, as I indicated, behaviour from storeOn: is not 100% preserved (different encoding used for Ã¸), as I noted in the original post. Cheers, Henry

Oct. 13, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Preparing the sprint

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Oct 13, 2009, at 8:43 AM, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > Stef wrote: >> For example I tried to check the SUnitextensions and I could not >> find them. > > http://www.squeaksource.com/SUnitExtensions ?! But the files I browsed where empty. Stef

Oct. 13, 2009