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Re: [Pharo-project] scriptloader>>loadComanche

by Henrik Sperre Johansen

I like the idea that a build-server determines that automatically even better. :) Cheers, Henry On 20.10.2009 21:57, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > I like the idea that people could contribute to a working configuration. > > Stef > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 9:40 PM, keith wrote: > > >> On 20 Oct 2009, at 20:30, keith wrote: >> >> >>> On 20 Oct 2009, at 14:08, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Yeap >>>> this is what I mean with Universes. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> On Oct 20, 2009, at 1:40 PM, Damien Cassou wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 9:15 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse >>>>> <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Damien I would really like to see Universes coming back. Do we >>>>>> have >>>>>> any chance getting it back? >>>>>> >>>>> No, not in the sense of what was the previous Universes system. >>>>> What >>>>> we really want: >>>>> >>>>> - a repository on SqueakSource >>>>> - a package in that repository with a single class >>>>> - this class defines one method per package we support >>>>> - each method as a small script to load the package (best thing for >>>>> the method would be to load the loader of the particular package >>>>> and >>>>> launch it) >>>>> >>> You just described Sake/Packages and you know it. >>> >>> Keith >>> >> sake/packages loading seaside 3.0 AND unloading >> >> http://www.vimeo.com/groups/squeak/videos/5434330 >> >> Keith >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > >

Oct. 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] HashTable vs Dictionary

by Nicolas Cellier

Do you mean also deep in Smalltalk Kernel ? Or only some applications ? 2009/10/20 Laval Jannik <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com>: > Hi, > Since some weeks, > We use in our projects the project HashTable, available > atÂ http://www.squeaksource.com/ht.html > It could be a good idea to integrate these collections to replace Dictionary > and Set. > > --- > JannikÂ Laval > PhD Student - Rmod Team - INRIA > Certified Project Management Associate (IPMA) > http://www.jannik-laval.eu > http://rmod.lille.inria.fr > --- > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Oct. 20, 2009

[Pharo-project] HashTable vs Dictionary

by Laval Jannik

Hi, Since some weeks, We use in our projects the project HashTable, available at http://www.squeaksource.com/ht.html It could be a good idea to integrate these collections to replace Dictionary and Set. --- Jannik Laval PhD Student - Rmod Team - INRIA Certified Project Management Associate (IPMA) http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://rmod.lille.inria.fr ---

Oct. 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] scriptloader>>loadComanche

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I like the idea that people could contribute to a working configuration. Stef On Oct 20, 2009, at 9:40 PM, keith wrote: > > On 20 Oct 2009, at 20:30, keith wrote: > >> >> On 20 Oct 2009, at 14:08, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >>> Yeap >>> this is what I mean with Universes. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On Oct 20, 2009, at 1:40 PM, Damien Cassou wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 9:15 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse >>>> <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>>> Damien I would really like to see Universes coming back. Do we >>>>> have >>>>> any chance getting it back? >>>> >>>> No, not in the sense of what was the previous Universes system. >>>> What >>>> we really want: >>>> >>>> - a repository on SqueakSource >>>> - a package in that repository with a single class >>>> - this class defines one method per package we support >>>> - each method as a small script to load the package (best thing for >>>> the method would be to load the loader of the particular package >>>> and >>>> launch it) >> >> You just described Sake/Packages and you know it. >> >> Keith > > sake/packages loading seaside 3.0 AND unloading > > http://www.vimeo.com/groups/squeak/videos/5434330 > > Keith > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] scriptloader>>loadComanche

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> sake/packages loading seaside 3.0 AND unloading > > http://www.vimeo.com/groups/squeak/videos/5434330 Thanks for the video. I'm watching it and should have done it long time ago. stef

Oct. 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] scriptloader>>loadComanche

by Johan Brichau

Hi Dale, The error I got was from code inside Monticello (not Metacello), due to the 'asNumber' change. It all works fine now (since the change was reverted) Johan On 20 Oct 2009, at 19:29, Dale Henrichs wrote: > Johan, > > Yes there was a recent change to Error handling in Pharo that broke > Metacello (Error no longer resumable) that broke Metacello... I ran > into that one yesterday on 10487 and updated the Seaside Metacello > config (Seaside-Metacello-Configuration-dkh.15) with a fix. > > For Pharo 10487 you'll need to use Metacello 1.0-beta.6 or later... > > Naturally as I try to verify that there aren't any other problems > I'm running into network problems:) > > Dale > > ----- "Johan Brichau" <johan.brichau(a)uclouvain.be> wrote: > > | On 20 Oct 2009, at 12:00, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > | > | >> We clearly need a universe like tools so that people can publish > | and > | >> maintain their add-ons. > | > > | > Yes, but we should be pragmatic for Seaside since it is the > | "flagship" > | > until we have the infrastructur set up. > | > > | > Maybe we should delete it from the core but we can the loading > | support > | > in the dev images. What do you all think? > | > | I just loaded metacello and used its seaside configuration to load > the > | > | 3.0-alpha5 of seaside. > | > | It hits the 'reading a number failed' bug in 10487-DEV > | > | ...argh... > | > | > | > | ---------------------------- > | Johan Brichau > | johan.brichau(a)uclouvain.be > | > | > | > | > | > | _______________________________________________ > | Pharo-project mailing list > | Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ---------------------------- Johan Brichau johan.brichau(a)uclouvain.be

Oct. 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] scriptloader>>loadComanche

by Ken G. Brown

Here's a video from 4 months ago showing how to use Sake/Packages to load Seaside 3.0. <http://www.vimeo.com/groups/squeak/videos/5434330> Ken G. Brown At 2:37 PM +0200 10/20/09, pharo-project-request(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr apparently wrote: >Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:14:56 +0200 >From: Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> >Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] scriptloader>>loadComanche >To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >Message-ID: > <67628d690910200514w25dbde7btf9e1533431a50132(a)mail.gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >The following snippet loads Seaside 3.0: > >[ Gofer new > squeaksource: 'Seaside30'; > addPackage: 'LoadOrderTests'; > load ] > valueSupplyingAnswers: { > {'Load Seaside'. true}. > {'SqueakSource User Name'. ''}. > {'SqueakSource Password'. ''}. > {'Run tests'. false}. > } > >There are more scripts that I use to build images on the Pharo Wiki ><http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ImageBuildScripts>. > >Lukas > >2009/10/20 Johan Brichau <johan.brichau(a)uclouvain.be>: >> >> On 20 Oct 2009, at 12:00, Torsten Bergmann wrote: >> >>>> We clearly need a universe like tools so that people can publish and >>>> maintain their add-ons. >>> >>> Yes, but we should be pragmatic for Seaside since it is the "flagship" >>> until we have the infrastructur set up. >>> >>> Maybe we should delete it from the core but we can the loading support >>> in the dev images. What do you all think? >> >> I just loaded metacello and used its seaside configuration to load the >> 3.0-alpha5 of seaside. >> >> It hits the 'reading a number failed' bug in 10487-DEV >> >> ...argh... >> >> >> >> ---------------------------- >> Johan Brichau >> johan.brichau(a)uclouvain.be >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > >-- >Lukas Renggli >http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Oct. 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] scriptloader>>loadComanche

by keith

On 20 Oct 2009, at 20:30, keith wrote: > > On 20 Oct 2009, at 14:08, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Yeap >> this is what I mean with Universes. >> >> Stef >> >> On Oct 20, 2009, at 1:40 PM, Damien Cassou wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 9:15 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse >>> <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> Damien I would really like to see Universes coming back. Do we have >>>> any chance getting it back? >>> >>> No, not in the sense of what was the previous Universes system. What >>> we really want: >>> >>> - a repository on SqueakSource >>> - a package in that repository with a single class >>> - this class defines one method per package we support >>> - each method as a small script to load the package (best thing for >>> the method would be to load the loader of the particular package and >>> launch it) > > You just described Sake/Packages and you know it. > > Keith sake/packages loading seaside 3.0 AND unloading http://www.vimeo.com/groups/squeak/videos/5434330 Keith

Oct. 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] About TestCase >> assert:

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> First, my reference about quality is not Squeak, I rather mean st-80 > from ParcPlace :) :) > At least it used to have > - more generous class and method comments > - less bugs and obscure code (certainly because less code too !) > - a certain homogeneity (less programmers ?) Yes! > So were is the Smalltalk quality ? > - the ability to test code as soon as written > - the ability to write small and simple code, > - the ability to write readable code, > - the ability to extend code > Are these essential properties in the quality standards used in > static typing ? But contracts and pre and cons are not linked with static typing. >> You mean not checkable documentation, absence of documentation, >> lack of static typing to document (because what would be good is to >> have a pluggable type system) > > I agree, lack of type can be seen as a weakness for documenting APIs. > As a workaround, we use funny parameter names (anArrayOfStrings). > Or we add a method comment (hem... at least we should). > I agree, all these comments will become false when code is changed, > and the quality will decrease... No this is not only that is that if you have precondition you localize the origin of bugs. > As false as an outdated assertion... but silent... Maybe it's worse ? > Browsing senders, or inspecting the signature of message sent to, or > inserting a halt is sometimes our solutions... > I agree, this is not ideal. > > So yes, assertions as a public declaration of API could be good for > documenting. I'm not sure that this is what I implied. For me pre and post are a nice way to specify the responsibility of the caller and the callee. > And a good description of assertion failure can also provide > informative feedback to the user (more than a Debugger ?) > > What I do not like is defensive assertions as a potential barrier to > extendability, because they correspond to a static view of code, a > snapshot of current state. I agree. I would avoid to have self assert: [aParam isKindOf: Point] > Smalltalk state does and will change. The image is living, and class > structure not written on stone. > Rapidly changing code is definitely not accepted as a quality > standard... > > In a rapidly changing image, assertions could be a supplementary drag > against change... > Suppose I have a method accepting a String parameter P: p. > [p isString] assertWithDescription: 'method xxx only accept a > String as parameter P'. > Now maybe the method would have worked with a Text. I have been too > restrictive: > [p isCharacters] assertWithDescription: 'method xxx only accept > characters'. > Now someone introduce WideString, and my code only work with > ByteString. > [p isCharacters and: [p asString isByteString]] > assertWithDescription: 'method xxx only accept byte characters'. > Yes, but the method does not work with empty String, I add: > [p notEmpty] assertWithDescription: 'method xxx only accept non > empty strings'. I would prefer to have [p isStringable] string implements Stringable Text implements Stringable I think that this is not because we have a dynamically typed language that we should forget consistent/compatible types (expressed via an agreement on common protocol). > Maybe you have some better ideas about optional types as a > specification... > Semi-automatic RoelTyper like helper tools? Do not confuse preconditions and type annotation. For me precondition is also about the object state before the method execution. So what we should do is learn what could be good. Stef

Oct. 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] scriptloader>>loadComanche

by keith

On 20 Oct 2009, at 14:08, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Yeap > this is what I mean with Universes. > > Stef > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 1:40 PM, Damien Cassou wrote: > >> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 9:15 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse >> <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> Damien I would really like to see Universes coming back. Do we have >>> any chance getting it back? >> >> No, not in the sense of what was the previous Universes system. What >> we really want: >> >> - a repository on SqueakSource >> - a package in that repository with a single class >> - this class defines one method per package we support >> - each method as a small script to load the package (best thing for >> the method would be to load the loader of the particular package and >> launch it) You just described Sake/Packages and you know it. Keith

Oct. 20, 2009