- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo 7.0-dev] Build #229: SUCCESS

by ci-pharo-ci-jenkins2＠inria.fr

There is a new Pharo build available! The status of the build #229 was: SUCCESS. Could not extract further issue information from commit message: Import so that we can do pull request review with latest version. Build Url: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/Test%20pending%20pull%20request%2…

Oct. 26, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] , for vector creation

by phil＠highoctane.be

I do not turn on autoformatting and use the format menu entry on an as needed basis. Autoformatting on Seaside renderOn: methods is a royal PITA. Phil On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 8:44 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Autoformatting messing with my parentheses is just a mistake. > > I put them in, leave them where they are, 'kay? I do not need an editor > that rewrites what I tell it. AST power or not. > > By the same argument you can tear apart any property of autoformatting. > "Why is it messing with my indentation here?" "Why is it removing > newlines?" "Why is it removing the last dot?" > The problem here is that the autoformatter has no way of knowing that it > is some "special" use rather than general binary message. > (And for the record, I have startup scripts that modify the source code of > the formatter, so I certainly am aware of autoformatting limitations...) > > Peter > > > On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 8:34 PM, Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras < > vonbecmann(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> you could do >> >> 1 x + 2 y + 5 z >> >> and that expression will give you a 3d vector. >> but it creates a lot of intermediate objects >> >> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Chris Cunningham < >> cunningham.cb(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 7:09 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> Maybe we can follow the FS/PP pattern >>>> and scope the message to only-vector-like-things via an initial >>>> message, so >>>> just like `$f asParser, â¦`, have `1 {vector-appropriate-message}, â¦`? >>>> >>>> So, something like >>> 1 vector, 2, 5 >>> or >>> 1 biVector, 2, 6 >>> ? >>> >>> -cbc >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Bernardo E.C. >> >> Sent from a cheap desktop computer in South America. >> > >

Oct. 26, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] , for vector creation

by Stephane Ducasse

+1 BTW we should start looking for an location for PharoDays 2018 :) On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 5:53 PM, Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works> wrote: > This turned into a much more interesting thread than I expected (gosh you learn lots of stuff by reading comments). > > But I am impressed that Feenk listened to what people were saying, distilled it down and didnât take their ball home - thanks guys. > > Sometimes in all of these slightly robust conversations I have to keep thinking back to when I went to Pharo days, and how cool it was to see the wonderful things people had produced. It was inspiringâ¦. > > We have to hold onto that and keep moving the boundaries further without getting disillusioned or blocked. > > Iâm looking forward to the next Pharo Days where hopefully some of this stuff will be reality. > > Tim > > >> On 26 Oct 2017, at 16:45, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >> Thanks everyone for the nice discussion. >> >> So, after all arguments, we will remove Number>>, from Bloc. >> >> I think using Number>>, for vector creation makes quite some sense. However, we have already seen that we have a few places where we have vectors: Bloc, PolyMath and Moose-Algos. The Bloc needs are smaller than the needs from PolyMath (we need only a limited set of abilities). So, until we have one consensus of having one vector in the image, we can leave room for playing. >> >> In the meantime we have: >> >> 1. >> BlVector x: 10 y: 20 >> BlVector x: 10 y: 20 z: 30 >> >> or: >> >> 2. >> (10@20) asBlocVector >> (10@20@30) asBlocVector >> >> The 2nd option reads ok, but it has the downside that it needs an extra object (the point). >> >> An interesting thing about Number>>@ is that it is backed by a primitive. This can be quite relevant and I think it would be worthwhile thinking about vector/matrix specific optimizations as well. That is why, in the future, it would be interesting to consider primitives for vector/matrix creation. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >>> On Oct 26, 2017, at 5:10 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: >>> >>> Tudor Girba-2 wrote >>>> You mean like sending @ to a number, right? :) >>> >>> Ha ha, you got me ;) >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Cheers, >>> Sean >>> -- >>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html >>> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> www.feenk.com >> >> "Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done." >> >> > >

Oct. 26, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] , for vector creation

by Stephane Ducasse

Doru I was thinking that you would also have BlMargin because Margin is a nice concept. When I introduced it with Igor it simplified a lot of code in expand, shrink and other operations. Stef On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi, > > To make the conversation more interesting, in Bloc we also have BlPoint with subclasses for 2D, 3D and 4D. The reason for this is that we model explicitly the intention of usage even if they share the instance variable names. We did not use Point because we needed 3D and 4D as well and Point has too many meanings that are conflated into one. > > This pattern was used everywhere we could. For example, we have BlBounds instead of Rectangle (actually, this is also because of performance reasons of working directly with 4 numbers rather than 2 points). > > Of course, these come with an apparent extra maintenance cost. So, if we see a possibility of unifying we should definitely take it, and this is where external reviewers can help to point out possibilities. We should just not unify just for the sake of it. > > Cheers, > Doru > >> On Oct 26, 2017, at 10:57 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >>> On Oct 26, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> 2017-10-26 10:20 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: >>> Hi, >>>> On Oct 26, 2017, at 10:10 AM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Another question. >>>> >>>> Will not these vectors deprecate Point in future ? Imaging that we will completely move to Bloc. >>> >>> No. Point is a perfectly reasonable data structure to describe a position. A Vector is something else and has other contracts. The coincidence is that they share the same variables, but they have different API. For example, a vector has #length. A point does not. >>> >>> Now Point implements most vector operations. The #length is defined as radius by #r message. I imaging that with new vector you will reimplement many of Point methods. Also I doubt that Point plays any role in system which is different than math vector. >> >> I think that over time we have accumulated all sorts of other usages for Point. For example, Rectangle uses origin and corner as a position not as vectors. >> >> Doru >> >>> >>>> And what about Rectangle? (Bloc implements own BlRectangle). >>> >>> These two do not have the same semantics. BlRectangle is a BlGeometry and is used for defining a path within an element. BlRectangle is polymorphic with other paths such as BlEllipse or BlPolygon. Rectangle is a generic data structure that can be used for other purposes. >>> >>> We should definitely try to find commonalities and opportunities for unification. However, we should not confuse state with types which are defined by the purpose they are used for (and associated behavior). >>> >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> >>>> 2017-10-26 9:26 GMT+02:00 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>: >>>> #(1 3 4 5 7 -2) asVector >>>> >>>> Meh. >>>> Ugly. >>>> >>>> { 1. 3. 4. a. b } asVector >>>> >>>> is the natural consequence. >>>> >>>> v := (1,3,4,5,7,-2) asVector >>>> >>>> keeps the parens. But why do I need to do that? >>>> >>>> Autoformatting messing with my parentheses is just a mistake. >>>> I put them in, leave them where they are, 'kay? I do not need an editor that rewrites what I tell it. AST power or not. >>>> >>>> And frankly, I like the "Feenk way of doing things" most of the time, so I am willing to go that route. >>>> >>>> Phil >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Automatic formatting will turn it into >>>>> >>>>> vector := 1,3,4,5,7,-2. >>>>> >>>>> Which is not as nice. >>>>> >>>>> And even though it looks ok for literal numbers (#(1 3 4 5 7 -2) asVector would work too), this starts to look quite generic: >>>>> >>>>> vector := width, height, depth. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Question: why not extend @ notation? >>>>> >>>>> x @ y @ z? >>>>> >>>>> Peter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 8:22 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I also like the , message for those vectors and the concatenation of dimensions makes sense. >>>>>> >>>>>> vector := (1,3,4,5,7,-2). >>>>>> >>>>>> looks how it should be. >>>>>> >>>>>> Readable, easy to translate vector stuff from reference text. >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 7:00 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am 25.10.2017 10:50 PM schrieb "Torsten Bergmann" <astares(a)gmx.de>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> there might be reasons for an own 2D vector class (instead of using Point). >>>>>>> But still I dislike the reimplementation of "," because for me so far it >>>>>>> has the meaning of "concatenating things". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Like concatenating coordinates :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here you redefine it to create vector instances and it works only up to three >>>>>>> so far. Right? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I understand that this gives some similarities with the math notation (1,2) >>>>>>> but I personally would prefer to use: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1@2 asVector >>>>>>> >>>>>>> or Vector2D x: 1 y: 2 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thx >>>>>>> T. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. Oktober 2017 um 20:06 Uhr >>>>>>>> Von: "Tudor Girba" <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> >>>>>>>> An: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> >>>>>>>> Betreff: [Pharo-dev] , for vector creation >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As mentioned in the separate thread, we played with introducing the extension: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> , aNumber >>>>>>>> ^ BlVector2D x: self y: aNumber >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This means that (10,20) will return a 2D vector. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We also have (10,20,30) which returns a 3D vector. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> , is used for different meanings already in the image beside the collection concatenation. For example, in FileReference is adds a file extension. And Exceptions create a collection. In other packages, PetitParser uses it as a sequence operator. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please voice your concerns. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Doru >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Every thing should have the right to be different." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> www.feenk.com >>> >>> "When people care, great things can happen." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> www.feenk.com >> >> "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair, >> you will end up with a messy haircut." > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "We are all great at making mistakes." > > > > > > > > >

Oct. 26, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Version of Zinc is using a deprecated method and breaking all the users

by Stephane Ducasse

ah ok now I understand why we could not review pull requests. Thanks for taking care of that pablo. Stef On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:19 PM, tesonep(a)gmail.com <tesonep(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > Zinc-Http is using a method that has been deprecated long time ago > and is affecting all the users of Zinc. > > I have created the issue > (https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/20596/Zinc-should-not-use-asBytesDescript…) > and a PR to fix it in Pharo > (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/401) > > However, this fix should be pushed to the Zinc repository. > > Cheers, > Pablo > -- > Pablo Tesone. > tesonep(a)gmail.com

Oct. 26, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] , for vector creation

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

> Autoformatting messing with my parentheses is just a mistake. > I put them in, leave them where they are, 'kay? I do not need an editor that rewrites what I tell it. AST power or not. By the same argument you can tear apart any property of autoformatting. "Why is it messing with my indentation here?" "Why is it removing newlines?" "Why is it removing the last dot?" The problem here is that the autoformatter has no way of knowing that it is some "special" use rather than general binary message. (And for the record, I have startup scripts that modify the source code of the formatter, so I certainly am aware of autoformatting limitations...) Peter On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 8:34 PM, Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras < vonbecmann(a)gmail.com> wrote: > you could do > > 1 x + 2 y + 5 z > > and that expression will give you a 3d vector. > but it creates a lot of intermediate objects > > On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Chris Cunningham <cunningham.cb(a)gmail.com > > wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 7:09 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Maybe we can follow the FS/PP pattern >>> and scope the message to only-vector-like-things via an initial message, >>> so >>> just like `$f asParser, â¦`, have `1 {vector-appropriate-message}, â¦`? >>> >>> So, something like >> 1 vector, 2, 5 >> or >> 1 biVector, 2, 6 >> ? >> >> -cbc >> > > > > -- > Bernardo E.C. > > Sent from a cheap desktop computer in South America. >

Oct. 26, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] , for vector creation

by Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras

you could do 1 x + 2 y + 5 z and that expression will give you a 3d vector. but it creates a lot of intermediate objects On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Chris Cunningham <cunningham.cb(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 7:09 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> > wrote: > >> Maybe we can follow the FS/PP pattern >> and scope the message to only-vector-like-things via an initial message, >> so >> just like `$f asParser, â¦`, have `1 {vector-appropriate-message}, â¦`? >> >> So, something like > 1 vector, 2, 5 > or > 1 biVector, 2, 6 > ? > > -cbc > -- Bernardo E.C. Sent from a cheap desktop computer in South America.

Oct. 26, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] , for vector creation

by Alexandre Bergel

Excellent decision Doru! Thanks!!!! Alexandre > On Oct 26, 2017, at 8:45 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Thanks everyone for the nice discussion. > > So, after all arguments, we will remove Number>>, from Bloc. > > I think using Number>>, for vector creation makes quite some sense. However, we have already seen that we have a few places where we have vectors: Bloc, PolyMath and Moose-Algos. The Bloc needs are smaller than the needs from PolyMath (we need only a limited set of abilities). So, until we have one consensus of having one vector in the image, we can leave room for playing. > > In the meantime we have: > > 1. > BlVector x: 10 y: 20 > BlVector x: 10 y: 20 z: 30 > > or: > > 2. > (10@20) asBlocVector > (10@20@30) asBlocVector > > The 2nd option reads ok, but it has the downside that it needs an extra object (the point). > > An interesting thing about Number>>@ is that it is backed by a primitive. This can be quite relevant and I think it would be worthwhile thinking about vector/matrix specific optimizations as well. That is why, in the future, it would be interesting to consider primitives for vector/matrix creation. > > Cheers, > Doru > > >> On Oct 26, 2017, at 5:10 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: >> >> Tudor Girba-2 wrote >>> You mean like sending @ to a number, right? :) >> >> Ha ha, you got me ;) >> >> >> >> ----- >> Cheers, >> Sean >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done." > >

Oct. 26, 2017

Zinc and Zodiac - Synching/Contributing

by Torsten Bergmann

Hi Sven, for Zinc there is a new issue: 1. Zinc is using #asBytesDescription. It should not be used as it is deprecated https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/401 there is also 2. https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/20557 which is not yet integrated. I also proposed some simple but necessary cleanups for Zodiac in Pharo 7: 3. Proper categorization in Zodiac-Tests package - to use "test" category instead of "testing" and better group the tests written https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/355/files Also it looks like the #setUp in Zodiac tests never send a "super setUp". Which should be fixed too. I've noticed that both Zinc/Zodiac are not hosted on STHub. You seem to use your own custom hosting server on http://mc.stfx.eu/Zodiac http://mc.stfx.eu/ZincHTTPComponents as well as github: https://github.com/svenvc/zinc https://github.com/svenvc/zodiac If we just merge the changes from 3. into Pharo 7 they may later be overwritten when synching also Zodiac again as in 2. So how can we contribute from community side to both projects? Should I fork https://github.com/svenvc/zodiac and send a PR to it so that you can integrate? Thanks Torsten

Oct. 26, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] , for vector creation

by Chris Cunningham

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 7:09 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > Maybe we can follow the FS/PP pattern > and scope the message to only-vector-like-things via an initial message, so > just like `$f asParser, â¦`, have `1 {vector-appropriate-message}, â¦`? > > So, something like 1 vector, 2, 5 or 1 biVector, 2, 6 ? -cbc

Oct. 26, 2017