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Re: [Pharo-project] Quickly getting the method call stack depth

by Eliot Miranda

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu>wrote: > > Well it seems rather special purpose. What are you using it for? > > Why is the cost impacting your work? > > There is an excellent paper at oopsla'09 that shows the method call > graph can be effectively inferred using the method call stack depth: > http://www-plan.cs.colorado.edu/klipto/mytkowicz-oopsla09.pdf > > Executing "[ running sender notNil ] whileTrue: [ running := running > sender. depth := depth + 1]" before each method execution of my > application terribly slows it down. > If you did your own VM you could do something like - add a stack depth counter incremented and decremented on each call/return, voided on each non-local return, terminateTo: etc - cache it in a per-process inst var and store/restore it on process switch But this will be difficult to get right (e.g. delimited continuations, coroutines). could you cache it in various activations? e.g. something like Notification subclass: StackDepthQuery defaultAction ^nil Object methodsFor: performance monitoring cachingStackDepthDo: aBlock | home cachedStackDepth | home := thisContext. ^aBlock on: StackDepthQuery do: [:ex| ex proceedWith: (cachedStackDepth ifNil: [cachedStackDepth := self computeStackDepthFrom: home)] and then have StackDepthQuery count the stack frames as it searches for a handler. This is tricky because the exception machinery defers to ContextPart to do the search. You'd have to override a few methods. But this way you'd be able to cut short the counting adding cachingStackDepthDo:'s at suitable points until profiling showed the overhead was acceptable. > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > > > On 2010-03-02, at 4:06 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > > > >> Will it be of any use for you? If yes, then I will do it. > >> > >> Alexandre > >> > >> > >> On 2 Mar 2010, at 21:00, John M McIntosh wrote: > >> > >>> Maybe you could write a plugin/primitive to do the work? > >>> > >>> On 2010-03-02, at 3:50 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >>> > >>>> Dear List, > >>>> > >>>> I was wondering whether there is a fast way to know the method call > >>>> stack depth. Something like what follows does the job: > >>>> > >>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > >>>> | depth running | > >>>> depth := 0. > >>>> running := thisContext. > >>>> [ running sender notNil ] whileTrue: [ running := running sender. > >>>> depth := depth + 1]. > >>>> depth > >>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > >>>> > >>>> But it is rather slow. Anyone has a suggestion? > >>>> > >>>> Cheers, > >>>> Alexandre > >>>> -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > >>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > -- > > = > > = > > = > > = > > = > > ====================================================================== > > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: > > squeaker68882 > > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http:// > > www.smalltalkconsulting.com > > = > > = > > = > > = > > = > > ====================================================================== > > > > > > > > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Scamper revival

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

I have never bought into "make Smalltalk more like <insertBuzzword> and the world will like us" because things don't work that way. The analogies to US politics are biting - without going into details, it does not work there either. The most recent "do it or else" was .Net. Before that, Java was the answer. Remember Object Linking and Embedding - the entire world was going to be components. DCOM is the answer, what's wrong with you? Fat clients, thin clients, Lotus Notes, VBA or bust!!! Now it's "The Cloud." Some of these things are actually useful for many tasks; most are good for _something_. If HTML 5 proves itself, we'll end up embracing it, but not because it will make people like us. People who want to find fault with anything that is not the latest hype-compliant technology will never run out of complaints to wave in our faces. The trick is to separate the truly worthy points from the talking points taken from glossy ads. Bill -----Original Message----- From: Eagle Offshore [mailto:eagleoffshore@mac.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 8:42 PM To: Schwab,Wilhelm K Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Scamper revival I meant to keep my last comment off list. My bad. This one is also off list. I'm not talking web apps. I think you missed that. I'm talking about a platform for writing desktop apps. It happens to use widgets implemented using html and css with logic in javascript, but its not terribly different from a smalltalk environment with its own widget kit. I think Dan was a little early with lively kernel, but I think if he updated it for HTML 5 he'd find the world quite a bit more receptive. On Mar 2, 2010, at 2:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > 'm not writing portable web apps, which is exactly my point: web technologies have their purposes and limitations, and attempts to use them as some type of intergalactic-fix-all is probably going to work out poorly.

March 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Problems using java code importer with inFusion under windows

by David T. Lewis

On Tue, Mar 02, 2010 at 02:18:20PM +0100, Fabrizio Perin wrote: > Because the discussion about this topic happened on the moose mailing list i > just update also the pharo mailing list. To summarize: > > I had problems using the importer of java code with inFusion on Windows, at > the end i discovered that the primitives into WindowsOSProcessAccessor just > fails during the initialization and that the process is not able to access > the OS. There is also a bug report here: > > http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/issues/detail?id=321&q=OSProcess&… Hi Fabrizio, The failure that you are seeing is because the OSProcessPlugin is not present in your VM, and therefore the primitives are not there (so really there is nothing to debug). OSProcess is not fully implemented on Windows. You can find some information about OSProcess at http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/708 If you have the option to use Unix/Linux or Mac, you should get better results. Sorry, Dave (author of OSProcess)

March 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Quickly getting the method call stack depth

by John M McIntosh

Ah, well if you can build your own VM, then it would be easy to add as a named primitive. On 2010-03-02, at 4:34 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> Well it seems rather special purpose. What are you using it for? >> Why is the cost impacting your work? > > There is an excellent paper at oopsla'09 that shows the method call graph can be effectively inferred using the method call stack depth: http://www-plan.cs.colorado.edu/klipto/mytkowicz-oopsla09.pdf > > Executing "[ running sender notNil ] whileTrue: [ running := running sender. depth := depth + 1]" before each method execution of my application terribly slows it down. > > Cheers, > Alexandre -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

March 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Quickly getting the method call stack depth

by Alexandre Bergel

> Well it seems rather special purpose. What are you using it for? > Why is the cost impacting your work? There is an excellent paper at oopsla'09 that shows the method call graph can be effectively inferred using the method call stack depth: http://www-plan.cs.colorado.edu/klipto/mytkowicz-oopsla09.pdf Executing "[ running sender notNil ] whileTrue: [ running := running sender. depth := depth + 1]" before each method execution of my application terribly slows it down. Cheers, Alexandre > > On 2010-03-02, at 4:06 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >> Will it be of any use for you? If yes, then I will do it. >> >> Alexandre >> >> >> On 2 Mar 2010, at 21:00, John M McIntosh wrote: >> >>> Maybe you could write a plugin/primitive to do the work? >>> >>> On 2010-03-02, at 3:50 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>> >>>> Dear List, >>>> >>>> I was wondering whether there is a fast way to know the method call >>>> stack depth. Something like what follows does the job: >>>> >>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >>>> | depth running | >>>> depth := 0. >>>> running := thisContext. >>>> [ running sender notNil ] whileTrue: [ running := running sender. >>>> depth := depth + 1]. >>>> depth >>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >>>> >>>> But it is rather slow. Anyone has a suggestion? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Alexandre >>>> -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > -- > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: > squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http:// > www.smalltalkconsulting.com > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > > > > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

March 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Quickly getting the method call stack depth

by John M McIntosh

Well it seems rather special purpose. What are you using it for? Why is the cost impacting your work? On 2010-03-02, at 4:06 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > Will it be of any use for you? If yes, then I will do it. > > Alexandre > > > On 2 Mar 2010, at 21:00, John M McIntosh wrote: > >> Maybe you could write a plugin/primitive to do the work? >> >> On 2010-03-02, at 3:50 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> >>> Dear List, >>> >>> I was wondering whether there is a fast way to know the method call >>> stack depth. Something like what follows does the job: >>> >>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >>> | depth running | >>> depth := 0. >>> running := thisContext. >>> [ running sender notNil ] whileTrue: [ running := running sender. >>> depth := depth + 1]. >>> depth >>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >>> >>> But it is rather slow. Anyone has a suggestion? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

March 3, 2010

[Pharo-project] [ANN] ConfigurationOfTeachable

by Torsten Bergmann

"Teachable" (see [1] and [2]) is now available via Metacello: Gofer new squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; package: 'ConfigurationOfTeachable'; load. ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfTeachable) project version: '1.0') load: 'all' Bye T. [1] http://astares.blogspot.com/2005/04/teaching-behavior.html [2] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2002-April/038279.ht… -- GMX DSL: Internet, Telefon und Entertainment fÃ¼r nur 19,99 EUR/mtl.! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02

March 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Quickly getting the method call stack depth

by Alexandre Bergel

Will it be of any use for you? If yes, then I will do it. Alexandre On 2 Mar 2010, at 21:00, John M McIntosh wrote: > Maybe you could write a plugin/primitive to do the work? > > On 2010-03-02, at 3:50 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >> Dear List, >> >> I was wondering whether there is a fast way to know the method call >> stack depth. Something like what follows does the job: >> >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >> | depth running | >> depth := 0. >> running := thisContext. >> [ running sender notNil ] whileTrue: [ running := running sender. >> depth := depth + 1]. >> depth >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >> >> But it is rather slow. Anyone has a suggestion? >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: > squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http:// > www.smalltalkconsulting.com > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

March 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Quickly getting the method call stack depth

by John M McIntosh

Maybe you could write a plugin/primitive to do the work? On 2010-03-02, at 3:50 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > Dear List, > > I was wondering whether there is a fast way to know the method call > stack depth. Something like what follows does the job: > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > | depth running | > depth := 0. > running := thisContext. > [ running sender notNil ] whileTrue: [ running := running sender. > depth := depth + 1]. > depth > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > But it is rather slow. Anyone has a suggestion? > > Cheers, > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

March 3, 2010

[Pharo-project] Quickly getting the method call stack depth

by Alexandre Bergel

Dear List, I was wondering whether there is a fast way to know the method call stack depth. Something like what follows does the job: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | depth running | depth := 0. running := thisContext. [ running sender notNil ] whileTrue: [ running := running sender. depth := depth + 1]. depth -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= But it is rather slow. Anyone has a suggestion? Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

March 2, 2010