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Re: [Pharo-project] squeakToUTF-8 and related?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > And I think so does the rest. In Pharo, not necessarily Squeak... > > Part of the confusing discussion on the Pharo(!) list might be that you were actually talking about the current state of Squeak. > > There was a major UTF8 cleanup for Pharo and messages like macToSqueak shouldn't even exist in Pharo anymore. > > Michael OK this is what I wanted to know. So mike could you summarize the Pharo situation. Now I would love to have some tests. Stef

April 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] CompiledMethod asString is a text

by Marcus Denker

On Apr 1, 2010, at 10:29 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> The "etoy hater Brunnen" in Bern :-) >> >> Marcus > > lol > I always found this fountain amazing, nearly bad taste. > To scare little kids, I went to see it with my sons but I'm sure that they > did not remember. It would be fun to go with camille and explain him. > He is at the right age for this kind of metaphor > I don't think there is a consensus of the meaning behind... it's too old (1545), so nobody remembers why and what and how. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindlifresserbrunnen Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

April 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] squeakToUTF-8 and related?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Mar 29, 2010, at 11:10 AM, Henrik Johansen wrote: > > On Mar 28, 2010, at 4:36 13PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Hi >> >> I'm trying to remember the situation with the internal representation of string in pharo/squeak >> to revise http://book.seaside.st/book/in-action/serving-files/character-encodings/sea… >> >> I saw that in pharo we have this NonASCIIMap. I do not remember what have been done in pharo. >> Argh memory leaks.... Nicolas do you remember the situation? > NonASCIIMap is used for quickly determining whether the string with no character codes > 127 (ie only ascii characters). > It's very useful for doing primitive accellerated isAsciiString, which in the case of ascii-compatible encodings (utf8, latin1, macroman, etc.) would mean no conversion is required for it to be the "appropriate" internal bytestring format. > It's used f.ex. in the nextChunk code, ok thanks > Strangely it is also used in FileStream writeSourceCodeFrom: baseName: isSt: , for some reason we there use a MacRoman if stream contents isAscii, which really makes no sense, but whatever. ok may be levente fixed that in Squeak. > > John pointed out some converters were lying, I'm not entirely sure that's true anymore, what IS certain though, is the external code format used is inconsistent, depending on from where/how you save/load it. May be we should wrtie some tests to know what to fix. > It really should be cleaned up to always store in utf8, and possibly also latin1 if possible. > All this should be cleared up to always try reading as UTF8, then raising an InvalidUTF8 error which can be handled by telling it to use a different converter and restart. ok > Possibly chosen from a menu when dropping a file on image, or choosing an alternative automatically if we know the possible other encodings a file could have been saved as, not sure how to best do it for scripts given as parameters when launching the vm > > On the font rendering side, I agree with Nicolas it's too complicated doing font rendering in-image, FT is an ok compromise though. > As for the bitmap strikefont rendering, what is really needed is a way to specify the charset it represents, and mappings from the internal string encodings to its glyphs. > F.ex., Bitmap DejaVu is really latin15, so it will currently render some ByteString characters incorrectly, as well as render some Unicode chars it really has glyphs for as ?. (such as the euro sign) > > Which all really has nothing to do with your initial question :) no problem I like to learn. > The internal representation of strings really hasn't changed since it was written, with the exception that leadingChar for WideStrings are now zero. > As far as I can tell, that means the interal storage format of widestrings is now equivalent to utf32, not sure what Byte Order it uses though, or if that is even consistent across platforms. :) > > The point about using WaKomEncoded, and passing all strings going into/out of the image through an encoder is still valid. > > Cheers, > Henry > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] CompiledMethod asString is a text

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> The "etoy hater Brunnen" in Bern :-) > > Marcus lol I always found this fountain amazing, nearly bad taste. To scare little kids, I went to see it with my sons but I'm sure that they did not remember. It would be fun to go with camille and explain him. He is at the right age for this kind of metaphor Stef

April 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] CompiledMethod asString is a text

by Marcus Denker

On Apr 1, 2010, at 10:18 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > More seriously it would be nice to have a solution. > After may be string and text can share a common interface and the current situation is kind of ok. > Does anybody have a larger view on the problem and possible solution? I think this was all fixed already in 1.1... (Object>>#halt) asString class --> ByteString. There is no asText. but #getSource return a Text (for formatted methods, of course) (Object>>#halt) getSource class So not too bad. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

April 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] CompiledMethod asString is a text

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

More seriously it would be nice to have a solution. After may be string and text can share a common interface and the current situation is kind of ok. Does anybody have a larger view on the problem and possible solution? Stef

April 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] CompiledMethod asString is a text

by Marcus Denker

On Apr 1, 2010, at 10:11 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi andreas > > You could not resist....... > > and you got trapped to my eyes :). > > http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/2800000/Wolf-Eating-wolves-2812984-… > > I was more thinking about this: The "etoy hater Brunnen" in Bern :-) Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

April 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] CompiledMethod asString is a text

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

+1 And we know it all! >>>> > It's not hostility. Not at all. It's my *love* for Squeak that was/is the problem. I could just not do nothing, *because* > I loved it so much... my mistake. > >> Even more so since CompiledMethod>>asString DOES NOT EXIST in Squeak. > > So then I was wrong with this analysis... but on the big picture, it is true. And you know it. > > Marcus > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] CompiledMethod asString is a text

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi andreas You could not resist....... and you got trapped to my eyes :). http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/2800000/Wolf-Eating-wolves-2812984-… Stef PS: Marcus you are a bad guy, bad bad bad :) "Oh le vilain" (kid voice) >> >>> Hi, I just bumped into this. Probably this is intended somehow, but it >>> does seem weird enough to ask â¦ >>> >>> (Object>> #hash) asString class >>> >>> returns 'Text'. >>> >>> >> >> I think this is historical. Methods *used* to return Strings, and the Browser highlighted the first line. >> >> Than, when the possibility to have "Rich text" kind of methods (with bold, colors, links) added in Squeak, >> this was "implemented" by the "do the smallest change possible, we will rewrite everything anyway" strategy. >> >> Never clean up! Never Refactor! > > Wow, Marcus. Your hostility towards Squeak is seriously amazing. Even more so since CompiledMethod>>asString DOES NOT EXIST in Squeak. It's a Pharo method. Of course, it's Squeak's fault that in Pharo, and Pharo only, CompiledMethod>>asString returns a text. > >> Of course, like always, the "big rewrite from scratch" never happened. To the contrary, all the time more and >> more "do the smallest change possible" changes where introduced on top, up to the point that the whole system >> was just *bad*. > > So what does that mean given that the method has a stamp of 'stephane.ducasse 8/9/2009 12:05'? > > Cheers, > - Andreas > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] CompiledMethod asString is a text

by Marcus Denker

On Apr 1, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Andreas Raab wrote: > On 4/1/2010 12:12 AM, Marcus Denker wrote: >> >> On Apr 1, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Niko Schwarz wrote: >> >>> Hi, I just bumped into this. Probably this is intended somehow, but it >>> does seem weird enough to ask â¦ >>> >>> (Object>> #hash) asString class >>> >>> returns 'Text'. >>> >>> >> >> I think this is historical. Methods *used* to return Strings, and the Browser highlighted the first line. >> >> Than, when the possibility to have "Rich text" kind of methods (with bold, colors, links) added in Squeak, >> this was "implemented" by the "do the smallest change possible, we will rewrite everything anyway" strategy. >> >> Never clean up! Never Refactor! > > Wow, Marcus. Your hostility towards Squeak is seriously amazing. It's not hostility. Not at all. It's my *love* for Squeak that was/is the problem. I could just not do nothing, *because* I loved it so much... my mistake. > Even more so since CompiledMethod>>asString DOES NOT EXIST in Squeak. So then I was wrong with this analysis... but on the big picture, it is true. And you know it. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

April 1, 2010