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Re: [Pharo-project] Redline Smalltalk

by James Ladd

Hi Dan, We spoke (email) a while back when I was petitioning Sun (Guy Steele) to help with a Smalltalk for the JVM. I like your work a lot and I get inspiration from it. Thank you for taking the time to respond to this list and me. Bert Freudenberg - Thank you for forwarding to Dan. Rgs, James. > Bert Freudenberg forwarded this along to me, as I'm not on a Pharo > mailing list. > > Have fun with your project! I hope this helps > > - Dan _________________________________________________________________ View photos of singles in your area! Looking for a hot date? http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/

April 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

The one-click vm appears to still have the defect. -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Schwab,Wilhelm K Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 5:12 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value Nicolas, I tried, and it has not been smooth. What exactly do you mean by the library path? Perhaps the easiest way to answer my question is to tell me which libraries should be found there. Will the vm no longer use absolute paths in #moduleName? I moved on to the RC3 one-click image and am trying to figure out how to point its vm at my image - can't hurt. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Nicolas Cellier Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 5:07 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value 2010/4/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>: > Hello all, > > I built (I think) a 2151 vm, but I can't run it. Â It keeps complaining > that it can't find the X11 display driver. Â What am I missing about > the command line options? Â I generally try to use > > Â /full-path-to-vm/squeakvm options /full-path-to-image > > Help?? > > Bill > Unless you add some specific home made plugin, you should better use latest squeak vm, after setting the LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to your library path. Did you try ? Nicolas > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of > Schwab,Wilhelm K > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 3:05 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; The general-purpose Squeak > developers list > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value > > Nicolas, > > I am running this on Ubuntu (9.10) and have been using the Pharo 0.15.2f vm. Â I just tried a Squeak vm (3.11-3) and could not get it to load my library. Â I have been using an absolute path the the .so; could that be the problem with the Squeak vm?? > > There has been a lot of discussion of the Pharo Linux vm lately, with some links and corrections, so I'll have to look around a little. > > You asked if I can check the vm sources; the concern is whether or not I will have anything to add :) Â Is there something specific you want me to do? > > Bill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of > Schwab,Wilhelm K > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 1:46 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; The general-purpose Squeak > developers list > Subject: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value > > Hello all, > > I had some strange results with double return values and boiled it > down to a C function > > Double AnyDouble() > { > Â Â Â Â return 1.0; > } > > called via > > Â anyDouble > Â < cdecl: double 'AnyDouble' () > > > and driven by > > | out | > out := Array writeStream. > 100 timesRepeat:[ > Â out nextPut:Library default anyDouble ]. > out contents. > > The results are not good. Â It works for the first three elements, after which it produces NaN. Â The real problem appears to be comparison of floats being broken after that point, as evidenced by a walkback that arises when trying to inspect the resulting collection - exploring it works. > > I need to try this on the latest image/vm, but wanted to start gathering opinions. Â Any ideas? > > Bill > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Nicolas, I tried, and it has not been smooth. What exactly do you mean by the library path? Perhaps the easiest way to answer my question is to tell me which libraries should be found there. Will the vm no longer use absolute paths in #moduleName? I moved on to the RC3 one-click image and am trying to figure out how to point its vm at my image - can't hurt. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Nicolas Cellier Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 5:07 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value 2010/4/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>: > Hello all, > > I built (I think) a 2151 vm, but I can't run it. Â It keeps complaining > that it can't find the X11 display driver. Â What am I missing about > the command line options? Â I generally try to use > > Â /full-path-to-vm/squeakvm options /full-path-to-image > > Help?? > > Bill > Unless you add some specific home made plugin, you should better use latest squeak vm, after setting the LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to your library path. Did you try ? Nicolas > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of > Schwab,Wilhelm K > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 3:05 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; The general-purpose Squeak > developers list > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value > > Nicolas, > > I am running this on Ubuntu (9.10) and have been using the Pharo 0.15.2f vm. Â I just tried a Squeak vm (3.11-3) and could not get it to load my library. Â I have been using an absolute path the the .so; could that be the problem with the Squeak vm?? > > There has been a lot of discussion of the Pharo Linux vm lately, with some links and corrections, so I'll have to look around a little. > > You asked if I can check the vm sources; the concern is whether or not I will have anything to add :) Â Is there something specific you want me to do? > > Bill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of > Schwab,Wilhelm K > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 1:46 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; The general-purpose Squeak > developers list > Subject: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value > > Hello all, > > I had some strange results with double return values and boiled it > down to a C function > > Double AnyDouble() > { > Â Â Â Â return 1.0; > } > > called via > > Â anyDouble > Â < cdecl: double 'AnyDouble' () > > > and driven by > > | out | > out := Array writeStream. > 100 timesRepeat:[ > Â out nextPut:Library default anyDouble ]. > out contents. > > The results are not good. Â It works for the first three elements, after which it produces NaN. Â The real problem appears to be comparison of floats being broken after that point, as evidenced by a walkback that arises when trying to inspect the resulting collection - exploring it works. > > I need to try this on the latest image/vm, but wanted to start gathering opinions. Â Any ideas? > > Bill > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value

by Nicolas Cellier

2010/4/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>: > Hello all, > > I built (I think) a 2151 vm, but I can't run it. Â It keeps complaining that it can't find the X11 display driver. Â What am I missing about the command line options? Â I generally try to use > > Â /full-path-to-vm/squeakvm options /full-path-to-image > > Help?? > > Bill > Unless you add some specific home made plugin, you should better use latest squeak vm, after setting the LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to your library path. Did you try ? Nicolas > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Schwab,Wilhelm K > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 3:05 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; The general-purpose Squeak developers list > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value > > Nicolas, > > I am running this on Ubuntu (9.10) and have been using the Pharo 0.15.2f vm. Â I just tried a Squeak vm (3.11-3) and could not get it to load my library. Â I have been using an absolute path the the .so; could that be the problem with the Squeak vm?? > > There has been a lot of discussion of the Pharo Linux vm lately, with some links and corrections, so I'll have to look around a little. > > You asked if I can check the vm sources; the concern is whether or not I will have anything to add :) Â Is there something specific you want me to do? > > Bill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Schwab,Wilhelm K > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 1:46 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; The general-purpose Squeak developers list > Subject: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value > > Hello all, > > I had some strange results with double return values and boiled it down to a C function > > Double AnyDouble() > { > Â Â Â Â return 1.0; > } > > called via > > Â anyDouble > Â < cdecl: double 'AnyDouble' () > > > and driven by > > | out | > out := Array writeStream. > 100 timesRepeat:[ > Â out nextPut:Library default anyDouble > ]. > out contents. > > The results are not good. Â It works for the first three elements, after which it produces NaN. Â The real problem appears to be comparison of floats being broken after that point, as evidenced by a walkback that arises when trying to inspect the resulting collection - exploring it works. > > I need to try this on the latest image/vm, but wanted to start gathering opinions. Â Any ideas? > > Bill > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

April 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] CollabActive book :)

by Tudor Girba

Hi Mike, I am not sure I understand what the problem is. Try this: # go to a page: http://book.pharo-project.org/book/introduction # invoke Add # enter a name (e.g., "somepage") and select Book Portion # press add This should create a new section in the introduction. Please let me know if it works for you. Cheers, Doru On 6 Apr 2010, at 23:24, Michael Roberts wrote: > Hi, > > is there some brief documentation for how to use the book engine? I am > not a pier expert, i just get the basic ideas. I tried to add some > new pages/sections using the add command, but it kept on logging me > out to the front page. I could not work out whether these actions had > any side-effect or not. If there are no docs, perhaps someone > knowledgeable could just add a page, showing how to add a page... > > thanks, > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow."

April 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] CollabActive book :)

by Michael Roberts

Hi, is there some brief documentation for how to use the book engine? I am not a pier expert, i just get the basic ideas. I tried to add some new pages/sections using the add command, but it kept on logging me out to the front page. I could not work out whether these actions had any side-effect or not. If there are no docs, perhaps someone knowledgeable could just add a page, showing how to add a page... thanks, Mike

April 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] TeaTime (Re: nebraska?)

by Lawson English

Andreas Raab wrote: > On 3/20/2010 4:43 PM, Michael Rueger wrote: >> On 3/20/10 4:35 PM, Marcus Denker wrote: >>>> So why does everyone ignore TeaTime? I admit I don't understand the >>>> internals, but it obviously *looks* like it could be the basis of >>>> Nebraska (or any other P2P solution). >>>> >>> Can you point me to a real good publication about it? I mean, a >>> *real* one? >> >> AFAIK TeaTime never happened but they (Croquet/Cobalt) switched to some >> multiplayer game like sync scheme (at least the poor me understood when >> I saw the implementation ;-) ). > > Actually we didn't. TeaTime (as conceived by David Reed) consisted of > two separate ideas, namely that of a world synchronization protocol > and that of a P2P network protocol. When David Smith and I implemented > the version we shipped in Hedgehog we dropped the P2P network protocol > part and only concentrated on the synchronization aspect which > resulted in *major* simplifications. > [...] > > Coincidentally, I am toying regularly with the idea of using an even > more simplified version of TeaTime to do something like Nebraska. > Might get around to it one of these days, it's actually straightforward. > > BTW, it's a misconception to think TeaTime is something complicated. > Complicated things don't work. Simple things do. TeaTime is actually > VERY simple. That's why it works. I'm extremely interested in this kind of thing, since it helps hybridize virtual worlds with hopefully beneficial results for all concerned. http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/vwrap/current/msg00082.html Lawson

April 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Hello all, I built (I think) a 2151 vm, but I can't run it. It keeps complaining that it can't find the X11 display driver. What am I missing about the command line options? I generally try to use /full-path-to-vm/squeakvm options /full-path-to-image Help?? Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Schwab,Wilhelm K Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 3:05 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; The general-purpose Squeak developers list Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value Nicolas, I am running this on Ubuntu (9.10) and have been using the Pharo 0.15.2f vm. I just tried a Squeak vm (3.11-3) and could not get it to load my library. I have been using an absolute path the the .so; could that be the problem with the Squeak vm?? There has been a lot of discussion of the Pharo Linux vm lately, with some links and corrections, so I'll have to look around a little. You asked if I can check the vm sources; the concern is whether or not I will have anything to add :) Is there something specific you want me to do? Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Schwab,Wilhelm K Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 1:46 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; The general-purpose Squeak developers list Subject: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value Hello all, I had some strange results with double return values and boiled it down to a C function Double AnyDouble() { return 1.0; } called via anyDouble < cdecl: double 'AnyDouble' () > and driven by | out | out := Array writeStream. 100 timesRepeat:[ out nextPut:Library default anyDouble ]. out contents. The results are not good. It works for the first three elements, after which it produces NaN. The real problem appears to be comparison of floats being broken after that point, as evidenced by a walkback that arises when trying to inspect the resulting collection - exploring it works. I need to try this on the latest image/vm, but wanted to start gathering opinions. Any ideas? Bill _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Redline Smalltalk

by Dan Ingalls

Hi, Stef - >This is fun because I was rereading the miniimage contents and started to think in terms of package reorganization to support a mini image. >I reread also Spoon a bit and I was looking at the nuturning. >Dan it would be nice if you could merge the potatoe change into Jsqueak? Potato is JSqueak. I don't get it. >Dan, Mariano for his PhD did some analysis about number of object used during typical coding session and we got around 17 %. >So mariano would like to see how we can get something like LOOM to dispose unused objects :) Are you aware of the work I did that enables class fault detection in Squeak? If a class has a nil methodDictionary, it causes a fault (ie it sends recoverFromMDFault to the class). That code then restores the MD in addition to any anyalysis you want. I never cleaned it up for posterity, but it enabled lots of interesting work... By nilling all but a few MDs, and then running some application, you could tell exactly what classes were needed and which were not. See the method discoverActiveClasses. A special feature even recorded the call stack that caused each class to be touched. What I was doing was restructuring the entire system as a bunch of image segments that could be swapped out and brought in on demand -- a sort of user-programmable swapping memory. This all worked at one point. Swapping of projects was a bit flakier because of our weak discipline on pointer scope, but it even worked in many cases. Where I was going with the whole "reorganizeEverything" project was that the SystemDictionary would be partitioned into many separate dictionaries in each project, and that namespaces would be the same as the project swapping unit, and the whole thing would be simple and fast. It actually worked once (;-) also. Loom was cool, but it could never come close to the speed of imageSegments. I played around with swapping out the entire VM Support category with all classes and methods, and it would swap in the entirety in less than 200 milliseconds, and this was a decade ago. Sorry for the long digression, but maybe some of this thinking or even the actual mechanism can be of use to your experiments. - Dan > >> James Ladd <james_ladd(a)hotmail.com> wrote... >>>> Hi Pharo-ites, >>>> >>>> I'm working on a port of Pharo to the Java Virtual Machine called Redline Smalltalk. >>>> (read more here: http://jamesladdcode.com/?p=323) >>>> >>>> I'm wanting to port every single class over time, but initially enough to get the >>>> compiler working and have a minimum runtime. >>>> >>>> Of the 1600+/- classes which are those necessary to make a small workable compiler >>>> and runtime environment? >> >> Hi, James - >> >> Bert Freudenberg forwarded this along to me, as I'm not on a Pharo mailing list. >> >> I think you know of my JSqueak project (a.k.a. Potato) -- a Squeak VM written in Java. The image that I used with it, is the same that I always use for this kind of experiment -- mini.image built in Squeak 2.2. >> >> The reason it is so cool is that it includes browser, editor, compiler, inspector debugger, and files -- everything you need for self-support. Plus it has the decompiler, and special temp-name hack, so you can actually browse sources with temp names before any file system works. My favorite thing about this image is that although it is only 600k, if you decompile all its sources, it comprises over 850k of Smalltalk, so it's like a compressed version of the sources with a full-function IDE thrown in for free ;-). >> >> As I said, the image is about 600k, of which 240k is code -- 202 classes (x2 if you count the metas) with 4590 methods. This should be a good guide for you in choosing classes to start with. >> >> You can actually run this image live in JSqueak on the web if you have Java installed and the planets are aligned correctly... >> http://Weather-dimensions.com/Dan/JSqueak.jnlp >> Another interesting statistic is that the Java .jar file is only 433k, including not only the VM, but also the entire image! This is possible because the image is so small that the pointers in it are mostly zeroes, so it compresses nicely. I just checked that this runs, and was happy to see that it putts along at 21 million bytecodes/sec on my laptop. > > >> I haven't looked recently, but I think you'll find Mini2.2.image or something like it in the same place where all the historical releases of Squeak are kept. Let me know if you can't find it. >> >> Have fun with your project! I hope this helps >> >> - Dan >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > >_______________________________________________ >Pharo-project mailing list >Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] A small idea how to get closer to hardware with small efforts :)

by Igor Stasenko

On 6 April 2010 14:46, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi, > > I always liked how Smalltalk X did it... they have > > Â Â Â Â -> an ivar in CompiledMethod that is the "native code pointer". > Â Â Â Â -> Primitive methods are just methods that have this pointer set > Â Â Â Â Â Â to the primitive in the vm. > Â Â Â Â -> Methods with embedded C-code are compiled and linked with > Â Â Â Â Â Â the Smtk->C cross-compiler, the pointer than points to that function > Â Â Â Â -> the JIT just put a pointer to the code it generates. > > So they merge primitives / static compiling(+embedded c-code) *and* the JIT > into one not that ugly mechanism. In STX, the memory is managed by the VM, though (the > code is not allocated in the GCed object memory by the JIT). > > So: Yes, I like this :-) and your mechanism is a nice way to get it easily integrated into the current > system. > > Q: what happens when code is moved by the GC? > Yeah, it will break the whole thing :) To avoid that, a native code should not issue any memory allocation, which may cause GC. Perhaps, there is a way to counter this , while still being able to move the code. A primitive could set a flag that its going to call a native code, embedded into compiled method, so, then, after GC, if this flag is set, VM knows, that memory allocation is issued from native code, and should fix the return address (1) on stack, before returning to native code, which moved to the new code location: primitive -> native code --(1)-> VM allocation procedure -> GC (1) - a return address , which should be fixed. > -- > Marcus Denker Â -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

April 6, 2010