- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Re: SqueakSource is unusable

by Igor Stasenko

On 11 April 2010 00:18, stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)gmail.com> wrote: > thanks. My thanks too. It is just GREAT improvement! Keep moving guys! :) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

April 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Re: SqueakSource is unusable

by jaayer

---- On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:29:33 -0700 Bert Freudenberg <bert(a)freudenbergs.de> wrote ---- >On 10.04.2010, at 21:19, stephane ducasse wrote: >> >> >> On Apr 10, 2010, at 7:16 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: >> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> I just merged the stuff I developed lately >> >> which is? > >Most importantly, projects can have parent projects now (only if a site-wide setting is enabled). This is to support "inbox" style use - when mailing out diffs, the diff based is searched in a project's parent project too. > >Also, you can enable developers to move versions, not just admins. This is a per-project setting, again to enable developers to clean out an "inbox" repository. There can also be a default target project for moves. > >Since SSProject grew too many instance variables, I added a properties dictionary just like we have for versions and repositories. Refactoring might be in order but I just copied and pasted. Sorry ;) > >There are a few minor changes, see the version history :) > >- Bert - Bert, something else I would really like to see is sticky sessions. It is annoying to continually discover I've been logged out and my session has expired every time I should happen to neglect a SS page open in a browser tab for a little too long. This forces me not only to log back in but also to re-navigate to whatever page I was viewing, as starting a new session takes you back to the homepage. This can be remedied with AJAX, specifically a Prototype or JQuery periodical on an empty <div/> that invokes an empty #refresh callback on the server side every 30 seconds or so. This keeps the session alive as long as a SS page is open. > > >_______________________________________________ >Pharo-project mailing list >Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

April 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Bye bye pharo on the iPhone

by Lawson English

Igor Stasenko wrote: > 2010/4/10 John M McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com>: > >> On 2010-04-10, at 9:08 AM, Stefan Marr wrote: >> >> >>> There are rumors, that this change is motived by technical reasons related to multitasking. >>> I could imagine some nice tricks related to the efforts Apple is putting into LLVM, to actually have a 'smart' C/C++ runtime system which allows to assess what kind of activity profile an app is going to exhibit. >>> This is already hard enough with C, prohibiting any VM technology seems to be a reasonable step, if they are actually going to employ any analysis techniques to get their multitasking stuff 'right'. >>> >>> But this is pure speculation. >>> >>> In the light of Steve Job's remark: "We just shipped it on Saturday, and we rested on Sunday." everything is possible, even that he is just going... >>> >>> >>>>> http://www.macrumors.com/2010/04/09/fallout-from-apples-exclusion-of-flash-… >>>>> >>> The primary reason for the change, say sources familiar with Apple's plans, is to support sophisticated new multitasking APIs in iPhone 4.0. The system will now be evaluating apps as they run in order to implement smart multitasking. It can't do this if apps are running within a runtime or are cross compiled with a foreign structure that doesn't behave identically to a native C/C++/Obj-C app. >>> >>> "[The operating system] can't swap out resources, it can't pause some threads while allowing others to run, it can't selectively notify, etc. Apple needs full access to a properly-compiled app to do the pull off the tricks they are with this new OS," wrote one reader under the name Ktappe. >>> << >>> >> Nonsense. >> >> An hour with some unix internals book and reading a bit about suspend/resume, and reflect on what happens when you sleep your unix based laptop shows there is no magic involved, just a bit of change to how Processes are managed. >> > > +1.. this is a bullshit. > Instead of solving the problem, they locking-down their platform. > > Its like saying "we're going to build an aircrafts with 4 wings, and > from this moment, all two-winged planes should stop being used > worldwide". > > Its just a way of making sure that all iPhone/iPad/Mac development is still done on Macs, IMHO. 10+ years ago, Apple promised developers a way to program Mac OS X apps for Windows. With the advent of QuickTime X, based on Cocoa libs, I've been speculating that Apple was planning on leveraging those libraries as a distribution of Mac OS X frameworks to Windows that 3rd party developers could use. It doesn't seem a total stretch that if Apple does this, they want to make sure that iPhone/iPad apps can only be developed on Mac and by extension, Mac OS X applications, even for Windows, will only be developed on the Mac as well. One IDE to rule them all: Mac OS X, iphone/ipad/iTouch, and now (MAYBE) Windows... Lawson

April 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] SqueakSource is unusable

by jaayer

---- On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 02:33:01 -0700 Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote ---- >> or if not that, then nearly so. > >Thank you for the friendly subject, I almost marked it as spam. Well, perhaps the title was a tad harsh, but I feel the issues addressed in my post were legitimate. I posted it to the list because there are multiple versions of SS on SS, and it is not at all clear who one should contact with issues. >I've integrated you changes, but I had to change many things because >your styles broke the layout of the two columns and the position of >the separation bar between them. If you add this: <div style="clear:both"/> within the .contents <div> but after the .contentsInner <div>, then the the separator will always extend to the bottom, even on pages like the .mcz package details view where the navigation is longer than the contents. (You could also create a .clear class with that property and put the div in it.) This is a hack, but a well-known, widely-employed one. >Lukas > >-- >Lukas Renggli >www.lukas-renggli.ch > >_______________________________________________ >Pharo-project mailing list >Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

April 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Initial experience coming from Squeak

by Sean P. DeNigris

Lukas Renggli wrote: > > I've removed the pre-selection and it does not work (or I > don't understand it). > Yes, you're right (it was working for me because I had to click there once to deselect it, duh!). So maybe leaving it deselected and having the user double-click is the best compromise - no savings in steps, but more natural. Sean -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Initial-experience-coming-from-Squeak-tp1799044p183567… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Initial experience coming from Squeak

by Lukas Renggli

>> I don't see why not pre-selecting the template helps? I've quickly >> changed that, but clicking on it doesn't select it. > > If the template is not pre-selected, single clicking off the template (in > the pane below the bottom of the template) selects it. As I said, I've removed the pre-selection and it does not work (or I don't understand it). Lukas -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

April 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Initial experience coming from Squeak

by Sean P. DeNigris

Lukas Renggli wrote: > > I don't see why not pre-selecting the template helps? I've quickly > changed that, but clicking on it doesn't select it. > If the template is not pre-selected, single clicking off the template (in the pane below the bottom of the template) selects it. Also, I think pre-selecting when there's no possible way to make use of the pre-selection is kind of mean, like dangling a banana outside a monkey cage, lol. Sean -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Initial-experience-coming-from-Squeak-tp1799044p183563… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Re: SqueakSource is unusable

by Bert Freudenberg

On 10.04.2010, at 21:19, stephane ducasse wrote: > > > On Apr 10, 2010, at 7:16 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > >> Thanks. >> >> I just merged the stuff I developed lately > > which is? Most importantly, projects can have parent projects now (only if a site-wide setting is enabled). This is to support "inbox" style use - when mailing out diffs, the diff based is searched in a project's parent project too. Also, you can enable developers to move versions, not just admins. This is a per-project setting, again to enable developers to clean out an "inbox" repository. There can also be a default target project for moves. Since SSProject grew too many instance variables, I added a properties dictionary just like we have for versions and repositories. Refactoring might be in order but I just copied and pasted. Sorry ;) There are a few minor changes, see the version history :) - Bert -

April 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Bye bye pharo on the iPhone

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I think that this is a bad sign for a lot of languages. The analysis on the move against flash and adobe are interesting. This is also a problem for company selling game dev platform. Bad. Stef >> >> On 2010-04-10, at 9:08 AM, Stefan Marr wrote: >> >>> There are rumors, that this change is motived by technical reasons related to multitasking. >>> I could imagine some nice tricks related to the efforts Apple is putting into LLVM, to actually have a 'smart' C/C++ runtime system which allows to assess what kind of activity profile an app is going to exhibit. >>> This is already hard enough with C, prohibiting any VM technology seems to be a reasonable step, if they are actually going to employ any analysis techniques to get their multitasking stuff 'right'. >>> >>> But this is pure speculation. >>> >>> In the light of Steve Job's remark: "We just shipped it on Saturday, and we rested on Sunday." everything is possible, even that he is just going... >>> >>>>> http://www.macrumors.com/2010/04/09/fallout-from-apples-exclusion-of-flash-… >>> The primary reason for the change, say sources familiar with Apple's plans, is to support sophisticated new multitasking APIs in iPhone 4.0. The system will now be evaluating apps as they run in order to implement smart multitasking. It can't do this if apps are running within a runtime or are cross compiled with a foreign structure that doesn't behave identically to a native C/C++/Obj-C app. >>> >>> "[The operating system] can't swap out resources, it can't pause some threads while allowing others to run, it can't selectively notify, etc. Apple needs full access to a properly-compiled app to do the pull off the tricks they are with this new OS," wrote one reader under the name Ktappe. >>> << >> >> Nonsense. >> >> An hour with some unix internals book and reading a bit about suspend/resume, and reflect on what happens when you sleep your unix based laptop shows there is no magic involved, just a bit of change to how Processes are managed. > > +1.. this is a bullshit. > Instead of solving the problem, they locking-down their platform. > > Its like saying "we're going to build an aircrafts with 4 wings, and > from this moment, all two-winged planes should stop being used > worldwide". > >> -- >> =========================================================================== >> John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 >> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com >> =========================================================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] A port of Pharo: Redline Smalltalk ...

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi richard some changes are changes coming from squeak and in such a case there is the squeak change It does not mean that we can integrate the change as it is. Thanks for looking at fixes and bug entries Stef On Apr 10, 2010, at 7:52 PM, Richard Durr wrote: > I am still trying to grok how this issue-fixing works. For example, in > "Difficulty:Easy" there are some issues which consist mostly of > ChangeSets of something. O_o O_o Nice :) > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 10:50 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> Yes this is the vision we have. >> Now if people would help for simple things in pharo we would have more time for such issues. >> We got several people doing PhD on modules and related. We studied namespace and other kind of >> points so we have an idea of what could be a solution but it should be implemented >> tested..... >> >> Stef >> >> >> On Apr 6, 2010, at 1:14 AM, Richard Durr wrote: >> >>> No, it's not. I would be far more valuable to have modularized images >>> though: Just like Next/Apples Nibs or Bundle-mechanism. These >>> image-modules would be edited from a development-image-bundle. They >>> could be used to form stand-alone applications already clean of the >>> development code or libraries that contain only a diff to the base >>> classes, these library-images could then be combined to form more >>> complex images. They could also contain their own namespaceâ¦ and they >>> would replace the non-modelling packaging mechanism, but I digressâ¦ ^^ >>> >>> | packageWorkedOn | >>> packageWorkedOn := Browser newPackageNamed: 'Calculator'. >>> packageWorkedOn importPackage: 'Seaside'. >>> "Create code in the Browserâ¦" >>> packageWorkedOn saveAsMonticello. >>> packageWordedOn saveAsPackage. >>> packageWorkedOn saveAsApplication. >>> >>> or something like that â¦ ^^ >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 9:08 PM, nullPointer <epicfan(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> jarober says: >>>> >>>>> The reason these "Smalltalk for .NET" and "Smalltalk for the JVM" >>>>> projects never seem to come off is simple - Smalltalk isn't just flat >>>>> text in an editor. Smalltalk is the entire interactive environment. >>>>> It would be fairly simple to get a syntax parser, but it wouldn't be >>>>> Smalltalk. It would be Ruby or Python with Smalltalk syntax. >>>>> Somewhat useful perhaps, but not really Smalltalk. >>>> >>>> :( >>>> >>>> Hopefully it would have sufficient knowledge to be able to do something >>>> thus. >>>> >>>> Sorry, but I believe that it is the way that had to take commercial >>>> Smalltalk. It surprises to me that Cincom and company do not see it. >>>> >>>> Regards. >>>> -- >>>> View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/A-port-of-Pharo-Redline-Smalltalk-tp1751884p1751963.ht… >>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 10, 2010