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Re: [Pharo-project] Behavior of Rectangle

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Yes! There it is! Thanks, -- Cesar Rabak Em 22/04/2010 17:18, Henrik Sperre Johansen < henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no > escreveu: On 22.04.2010 22:14, csrabak(a)bol.com.br wrote: > Alexandre, > > I can't tell why exactly, but this kind of discussion seems /dÃ©jÃ vu/ for me. . . I agree I cannot find the specific thread about it. That's because it was on the vwnc-mailing list: http://forum.world.st/vwnc-Rectangle-td1414824.html Cheers, Henry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 22, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Esug-list] Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Em 22/04/2010 17:00, John M McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> escreveu: > On 2010-04-22, at 11:43 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > > if we start to make the intersection between smalltalk and > > university and education then we will end up to nothing. zero ok > > one or two, now individually we can take the responsibility to say > > what we think about apple attitude and I will do it for myself. > > > > Stef > It's not just intersection of Smalltalk, let me ramble, APL, Cobol, > Fortran, Lisp, Basic, Lua , Ruby, Perl, Simula, Algol68, PL/I no > doubt there are a few more, that is what is at risk. > Or do educational institutes only dabble and teach in C++ still? John, I respect your point but I feel this is stretching into a Crusade! Scratch itself is the point still or is it to be an example of the 'liberty' we would like to have in a Commercial defined and owned by a company platform? If the former, I think the issue could eventually boils down to Apple sponsoring MIT or other institution (ESUG probably would not be interested) in doing the necessary port of Scratch [viewer for iPad] to ObjC or Javascript. I mean, in a nutshell it is the question of the availability of the Scratch application versus a certain investment done to have it in iPad. If the latter, I think we need to find first why we're so certain we (the melting pot community you mention above: from COBOL to Lua) have any "rights" to have our favorite language available or approved by Apple to run in _its_ platform? Notwithstanding the historical tie to an idea of the Dynabook et al., the iPad is an iPad! Are we so sure that iPad would be this so astonishing success in such a way that if Scratch does not come by via an iPad the majority of the teens which are the intended audience of Scratch would become orphaned of using Scratch? Let's ask ourselves, due to principles would we (instead of putting black skulls on our pages) steer away of Apple and stop doing development work for all Apple devices (the only way to have a visible effect), as was for a time a ban from FSF due the Apple's litigation on the 'look and feel' of their apps? I don't think it is reasonable nor expected. . . my 0.19999.... -- Cesar Rabak

April 22, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Behavior of Rectangle

by Henrik Sperre Johansen

On 22.04.2010 22:14, csrabak(a)bol.com.br wrote: > Alexandre, > > I can't tell why exactly, but this kind of discussion seems /dÃ©jÃ vu/ for me. . . I agree I cannot find the specific thread about it. That's because it was on the vwnc-mailing list: http://forum.world.st/vwnc-Rectangle-td1414824.html Cheers, Henry

April 22, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Behavior of Rectangle

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Alexandre, I can't tell why exactly, but this kind of discussion seems /dÃ©jÃ vu/ for me. . . I agree I cannot find the specific thread about it. OTOH, it brings an opportunity to solve the issue 'fixing' it where it belongs: containsPoint: aPoint "Answer whether aPoint is within the receiver." ^origin <= aPoint and: [aPoint < corner] The method in question is implemented using an overloading of the #<= on Point. I don't think points could be considered comparable. . . Anyway the operator is 'overloaded' and the method comment is clearly showing the intent of the implementation: <= aPoint "Answer whether the receiver is neither below nor to the right of aPoint." ^x <= aPoint x and: [y <= aPoint y] About the impacts you see, I didn't have time to do a thorough research. Why doing (No attempt to optimize, just to put the perspective): containsPoint: aPoint "Answer whether aPoint is within the receiver." ^(origin <= aPoint and: [aPoint < corner]) or: [corner <= aPoint and: [aPoint < origin]] Has impacts in present Pharo code? -- Cesar Rabak Em 22/04/2010 16:55, Alexandre Bergel < alexandre(a)bergel.eu > escreveu: Dear List, I spend quite some time in tracking down a bug in Mondrian. I found it. The source of it stems from the following behavior in Pharo: -=-=-=-=-=-= (0@0 corner: 10@10) containsPoint: 5@5. => true (10@10 corner: 0@0) containsPoint: 5@5. => false -=-=-=-=-=-= I find the latter a bit surprising. VW returns false as well. I would expect the second expression to return true. There is also "(10@0 corner: 0@10) containsPoint: 5@5. => false" I looked in the Pharo mailing list archive, and apparently this hasn't been discussed yet. The class Rectangle is central. Modifying it (either by making "(10@10 corner: 0@0) containsPoint: 5@5" returns true or not permitting a rectangle "(10@10 corner: 0@0)" to be valid) may have some serious impact. What do you think? Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 22, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Esug-list] Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

by John M McIntosh

On 2010-04-22, at 11:43 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > if we start to make the intersection between smalltalk and university and education > then we will end up to nothing. zero ok one or two, now individually > we can take the responsibility to say what we think about apple attitude and I will do it for myself. > > > Stef It's not just intersection of Smalltalk, let me ramble, APL, Cobol, Fortran, Lisp, Basic, Lua , Ruby, Perl, Simula, Algol68, PL/I no doubt there are a few more, that is what is at risk. Or do educational institutes only dabble and teach in C++ still? -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

April 22, 2010

[Pharo-project] Behavior of Rectangle

by Alexandre Bergel

Dear List, I spend quite some time in tracking down a bug in Mondrian. I found it. The source of it stems from the following behavior in Pharo: -=-=-=-=-=-= (0@0 corner: 10@10) containsPoint: 5@5. => true (10@10 corner: 0@0) containsPoint: 5@5. => false -=-=-=-=-=-= I find the latter a bit surprising. VW returns false as well. I would expect the second expression to return true. There is also "(10@0 corner: 0@10) containsPoint: 5@5. => false" I looked in the Pharo mailing list archive, and apparently this hasn't been discussed yet. The class Rectangle is central. Modifying it (either by making "(10@10 corner: 0@0) containsPoint: 5@5" returns true or not permitting a rectangle "(10@10 corner: 0@0)" to be valid) may have some serious impact. What do you think? Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

April 22, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] FEATURE: User chooses preferred location for MC directory repositories

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Provided you install some specific package, right? Em 21/04/2010 11:14, Chris Muller < asqueaker(a)gmail.com > escreveu: Environment variables can be interrogated, at least in Linux (perhaps other OS's, I haven't tried), via OSProcess: OSProcess thisOSProcess environment Hope that helps.. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Michael Roberts wrote: > i'm not sure what either of you mean. I want there to be no UI choice > and the system just looks higher up in the file system hierarchy. > > certainly environment variables or a .pharorc style file would solve this. > > thanks, > Mike > > On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 6:33 PM, Chris Muller wrote: >> Whether the user is required to specify a "default directory" or a >> directory to a repository, it's the same task isn't it? >> >> Once you add it once to MC, it can be "added" to any other package. >> So this defaultDirectory would seem to be a feature not worth its >> weight.. >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: >>> >>> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=2329 >>> >>> Pharo image: Pharo 1.0 >>> >>> In Monticello Browser, when I click "+Repository" and select "directory," >>> I'd love to be taken right to the directory where I keep my local >>> repositories, instead of having to click to the same place over and over. >>> >>> I changed the following method: >>> MCDirectoryRepository class>>morphicConfigure >>> Â Â Â Â ^ (UIManager default chooseDirectoryFrom: (FileDirectory on: >>> '/path/to/my/Repositories')) ifNotNil: >>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â [:directory | >>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â self new directory: directory] >>> >>> How should I store the default repository directory? Â Would anyone else find >>> this helpful? >>> >>> Sean DeNigris >>> -- >>> View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/FEATURE-User-chooses-preferred-location-for-MC-directo… >>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 22, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Esug-list] Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Although it hurts to admit, I think Stef is downright on his take... OTOH, I feel we lost the bandwagon long time ago when Apple already sent the message by stopping supporting Squeak. So, just to attempt to bring another idea to the debate, I suggest we reason this way: presently this platform is getting a lot of attention and we (lets define our Smalltalk + Scratch interest group hereÂ¹) saw some prospects for some uses of it which Apple could not conceive a way of its business model without forbidding it. It is their platform their business model! Is like we are trying again to show how nerdy and rebel we are as were the folks that got the PS to run Linux. . . my 0.019999.... -- [1] In another post I can post my take about dynamic languages in general if interest remains on this subject) Em 22/04/2010 15:43, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > escreveu: if we start to make the intersection between smalltalk and university and education then we will end up to nothing. zero ok one or two, now individually we can take the responsibility to say what we think about apple attitude and I will do it for myself. Stef On Apr 22, 2010, at 5:15 PM, John M McIntosh wrote: > > On 2010-04-22, at 6:22 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> I still naively believe that if all the programmers of the dynamic language put a logo with apple and a black skull on their >> web page. Apple will get a bad press. > > > Yes well I don't think that will achieve much. > > Personally I think that the people here involved in the education & university domains need to write actual paper based letters on their > institution's letter head and mail them to the Apple education reps for their countries stating their concern about Apple's legal agreements > that appear to lockout the iPad for extraordinary use in the computer science curriculum. > > This involves passionately arguing for the ability to program, or teach in something other than C, C++, Obj-C or Javascript, I"m sure others are > more capable than me in composing that, as a software engineer my words aren't worth much, but I think computer science departments should > be voicing their concern on the direction where things appear to be going. > > -- > =========================================================================== > John M. McIntosh Twitter: squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com > =========================================================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/listinfo/esug-list _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 22, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] FEATURE: User chooses preferred location for MC directory repositories

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

I just submitted some text can you check if it is clear and can be published? -- Cesar Rabak Em 21/04/2010 08:26, laurent laffont < laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com > escreveu: Here http://book.pharo-project.org/book/TipsAndTricks/PharoRC Can someone adapt it for Windows ? Cheers, Laurent Laffont On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 8:56 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: Cool I will do that too. Can you create a book entry with that because this is cool :) Stef On Apr 21, 2010, at 8:40 AM, laurent laffont wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 11:21 PM, Michael Roberts <mike(a)mjr104.co.uk> wrote: > i'm not sure what either of you mean. I want there to be no UI choice > and the system just looks higher up in the file system hierarchy. > > certainly environment variables or a .pharorc style file would solve this. > > > On my machine I've written these files: > ~/.pharorc.st > > Author fullName: 'LaurentLaffont'. > > MCRepositoryGroup default addRepository: > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â (MCDirectoryRepository new directory: > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â (FileDirectory on: '/home/laurent/pharo/repository')). > > Then > > ~/bin/pharo: > > #!/bin/sh > squeak $1 ~/.pharorc.st > > > Then I launch my image with: > pharo /path/to/my.image > > Author and repository always set for every image. Very emacs-like :) > > Cheers, > > Laurent Laffont > > > > thanks, > Mike > > On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 6:33 PM, Chris Muller <asqueaker(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Whether the user is required to specify a "default directory" or a > > directory to a repository, it's the same task isn't it? > > > > Once you add it once to MC, it can be "added" to any other package. > > So this defaultDirectory would seem to be a feature not worth its > > weight.. > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > >> > >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=2329 > >> > >> Pharo image: Pharo 1.0 > >> > >> In Monticello Browser, when I click "+Repository" and select "directory," > >> I'd love to be taken right to the directory where I keep my local > >> repositories, instead of having to click to the same place over and over. > >> > >> I changed the following method: > >> MCDirectoryRepository class>>morphicConfigure > >> Â Â Â Â ^ (UIManager default chooseDirectoryFrom: (FileDirectory on: > >> '/path/to/my/Repositories')) ifNotNil: > >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â [:directory | > >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â self new directory: directory] > >> > >> How should I store the default repository directory? Â Would anyone else find > >> this helpful? > >> > >> Sean DeNigris > >> -- > >> View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/FEATURE-User-chooses-preferred-location-for-MC-directo… > >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pharo-project mailing list > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project Â

April 22, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Esug-list] Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

if we start to make the intersection between smalltalk and university and education then we will end up to nothing. zero ok one or two, now individually we can take the responsibility to say what we think about apple attitude and I will do it for myself. Stef On Apr 22, 2010, at 5:15 PM, John M McIntosh wrote: > > On 2010-04-22, at 6:22 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> I still naively believe that if all the programmers of the dynamic language put a logo with apple and a black skull on their >> web page. Apple will get a bad press. > > > Yes well I don't think that will achieve much. > > Personally I think that the people here involved in the education & university domains need to write actual paper based letters on their > institution's letter head and mail them to the Apple education reps for their countries stating their concern about Apple's legal agreements > that appear to lockout the iPad for extraordinary use in the computer science curriculum. > > This involves passionately arguing for the ability to program, or teach in something other than C, C++, Obj-C or Javascript, I"m sure others are > more capable than me in composing that, as a software engineer my words aren't worth much, but I think computer science departments should > be voicing their concern on the direction where things appear to be going. > > -- > =========================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com > =========================================================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/listinfo/esug-list

April 22, 2010