- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Managing Pharo external packages with Metacello, please read!

by Nicolas Cellier

The meaning of my message was don't do it for squeak, but do it for yourself. I don't doubt the mailing list is a mine of information, but even in the best mine you need to dig a lot before extracting the gold nuggets. Of course, I've got no right to control your agenda, who am I ? You can consider the subject close, and I won't find your attitude shocking at all. But next time, consider writing a rationale for your own, it will increase quality of Pharo decision process. Best regards Nicolas 2010/5/17 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > nicolas > > all the information is in the metacello mailing-list Â and we already posted many mails on that topics in this mailing list. > I'm sorry but I do not have the time to repeat again what we said. Now since I'm in a really good mood > in a nutshell > > one repo per version Pharo1.0, Pharo11 ... MetacelloRepository > Â Â Â Â containing configurationOfXXX frozen = all the dependent packages are copied locally + configuration ready to load using load. > > a project > Â Â Â Â contain its single/or whatever configurationOfMyProject > Â Â Â Â people publish the config to their repository and if they want they push from their repository to the version repository > Â Â Â Â a version that they freeze (may be using tags) > > For Pharo core or pharo packages that we maintain we want to maintain it as a project. > with its own repository and packages. > > Then we have a server that load configuration and barks if something wrong happen. And may be we kick out > the configurationofXXX from MetacelloRepositories > >> Steph, >> I understand how boring it may seem: >> - you already discussed the subject over and over >> - you already took decisions >> and now we come later with new proposals, and ask you to reconsider >> the work again... > > more than that. :) > It looks like if we did not talk or think about what we are doing. > > >> As for the Preferences/Settings, Pharo choices are probably very weel thought. >> >> However, every solution will come with trade offs, and it would be >> good to have a rationale justifying the choices you made, and perhaps >> more importantly justifying why you did abandon some solutions, >> because some questions might be repeated in Pharo 1.2, 1.3, 2.0 ... >> and find different answers in different context. Note that Squeak >> evolutions might have influence on Pharo too, and it's part of the >> context... >> >> I strongly encourage you to establish your rationale on Pharo grounds >> - independently of Andreas proposals, put it on the Pharo wiki and let >> us know the URL. >> >> You also know that Squeak goals are not exactly those of Pharo w.r.t. >> backward compatibility, so Squeak can't just blindly replicate Pharo >> solutions without a rationale. >> >> The merit of Andreas proposal is to try and establish such a >> rationale. Without it, we're bound to repeat discussions again and >> again, > > So to fix the problem consider that as our proposal. > > Stef > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] condensing changes file

by laurent laffont

It has just finished :) Laurent On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:40 PM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com > wrote: > I'm starting to wonder if this condensing will ever finish ! > > Laurent > > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:37 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> don't bother :) >> >> It is taking long but fully working. We will condense it for may be beta >> or rc depending on the size. >> >> Stef >> >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > I've just started playing with ConfigurationOfPharo 1.1 and I'm >> currently experiencing the looooong "condensing changes file". I have >> currently troubles trying to follow all the traffic of this mailing-list :) >> but is there some work to make it far less longer ? or optional ? >> > >> > Laurent Laffont >> > >> > http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ >> > http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pharo-project mailing list >> > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > >

May 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] how to change the default size of the Pharo host windows?

by Eliot Miranda

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:30 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Ma > > > > bytes 28 to 31: image flags, conventional VMs use only bit 0, Cog also > uses bits 1 through 4 > > bit 0: 1 => open full screen, 0 => open using width & > height > > bit 1: 1 => image floats are in little-endian format, 0=> > image floats are in big-endian format > > bit 2: 1 => Process's 4th inst var (after myList) is > threadId to be used by the VM for overlapped calls > > > > bit 3: 1 => set the flag bit on methods that the VM will > only interpret (because they're considered too big to JIT) > > bit 4: 1 => preempting a process does not put it to the > back of its run queue > > > I was not clear how to read > bit 3: 1 > this information is not in the compiledMethods? > For the Cog JIT I want to measure which methods get interpreted to determine the threshold at which to decide to JIT methods. It makes little sense to JIT methods that are large and only executed once, typically class initialization methods. A simple criterion is to set a limit on the number of literals in a method. But I still need to know whether my threshold is affecting frequently used methods. So I added the option of setting the flag bit in any method which the JIT refuses to compile because it has too many literals. Since I need to see which methods are interpreted on start-up putting a flag in the image header was convenient. The effect is that the JIT will set the flag bit on any method it refuses to JIT. I can then browse these in the image and decide whether any are important and adjust the threshold accordingly. Arguably this should be a command line argument, not an image header flag. > Stef > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] condensing changes file

by laurent laffont

I'm starting to wonder if this condensing will ever finish ! Laurent On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:37 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > don't bother :) > > It is taking long but fully working. We will condense it for may be beta or > rc depending on the size. > > Stef > > > > Hi, > > > > I've just started playing with ConfigurationOfPharo 1.1 and I'm currently > experiencing the looooong "condensing changes file". I have currently > troubles trying to follow all the traffic of this mailing-list :) but is > there some work to make it far less longer ? or optional ? > > > > Laurent Laffont > > > > http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ > > http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] condensing changes file

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

don't bother :) It is taking long but fully working. We will condense it for may be beta or rc depending on the size. Stef > Hi, > > I've just started playing with ConfigurationOfPharo 1.1 and I'm currently experiencing the looooong "condensing changes file". I have currently troubles trying to follow all the traffic of this mailing-list :) but is there some work to make it far less longer ? or optional ? > > Laurent Laffont > > http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ > http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 17, 2010

[Pharo-project] condensing changes file

by laurent laffont

Hi, I've just started playing with ConfigurationOfPharo 1.1 and I'm currently experiencing the looooong "condensing changes file". I have currently troubles trying to follow all the traffic of this mailing-list :) but is there some work to make it far less longer ? or optional ? Laurent Laffont http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ http://magaloma.blogspot.com/

May 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] maybe a stupid question :)

by Igor Stasenko

Looks like i missed that discussion.. As to me, its not really relevant what name you pick for it, its important what and how much effort you will put in it :) On 17 May 2010 22:16, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > true > > On May 17, 2010, at 9:04 PM, Michael Roberts wrote: > >> way back then there was a thread about not calling Pharo what we >> should not call it.... but we have as a group consistently failed to >> do this. i would suggest that if people can't drop using *it*, then we >> have to give up. Â it is very difficult doing such brand management in >> an online group. we should be aware that Pharo is a specific brand we >> are trying to maintain. Â we can't control what comes out of folks >> keyboards.... >> >> thanks >> Mike >> >> On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor.girba(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> This was decided a long time ago: >>> - PharoCore is PharoCore >>> - PharoDev is Pharo (and from now on, perhaps it would be great to not talk >>> about PharoDev anymore) >>> >>> So, Pharo is PharoDev. In fact, only for very few people will PharoCore be >>> interesting. For most, Pharo(Dev) it is the interesting part. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> On 14 May 2010, at 20:48, Igor Stasenko wrote: >>> >>>> On 14 May 2010 21:36, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I mean "pharo" is "pharo core" >>>>> >>>>> Is Linux only the Kernel? No. >>>>> You have a Linux version (distro) and the kernel version. >>>>> >>>>>> and "pharo dev" is just pharo+packages loaded >>>>> >>>>> Pharo-dev is what is distributed by default and typically >>>>> called "Pharo". Similar to the platform and loaded packages >>>>> in Eclipse or the linux kernel with loaded packages to form >>>>> a Linux system. >>>>> >>>> >>>> My 2c. >>>> >>>> I think that the difference here is that Pharo-Core maintained by >>>> Pharo team and under their direct >>>> responsibility, while Pharo-dev includes various packages, which is >>>> maintained separately. >>>> >>>> Pharo team, of course having a strong influence on Pharo-dev shape, >>>> but main focus is core. >>>> >>>>> Bye >>>>> T. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! >>>>> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best regards, >>>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "To lead is not to demand things, it is to make them happen." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

May 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] UUID on ubuntu 10.04

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I asked the student to try. Stef On May 17, 2010, at 9:06 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > On ArchLinux I have the problem when UUID is built external. Official 4.0.3.2202 Unix VM binaries on http://squeakvm.org/unix/ works well for me (UUID is internal). > > Can you try with this one click image I made once (uses 4.0.3.2202 binaries) http://lolgzs.free.fr/pharo/Pharo-1.0-OneClick.zip > > Laurent Laffont > > http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ > http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ > > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:24 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > I can confirm that this is exactly the same trace than the one reported by laurent (no debug file). > > Stef > On May 17, 2010, at 7:51 PM, David T. Lewis wrote: > > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 07:38:59PM +0200, St?phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Hi guys > >> > >> I took seaside the latest one click image and when I have to save a MC package > >> I get a core dump with UUID new:... > >> I checke the so.UUIDplugin is there and I do not understand. > >> Can somebody with a Ubuntu give a try to save something using MC and the latest seaside one click. > > > > Hi Stef, > > > > This issue is being tracked here: http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7358 > > > > It is not clear to me if the issue is resolved in the Ian's latest VM > > build, so if you or anyone else can confirm the UUID crash happening > > with this VM, that would be helpful to clarify. > > > > Dave > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] maybe a stupid question :)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

true On May 17, 2010, at 9:04 PM, Michael Roberts wrote: > way back then there was a thread about not calling Pharo what we > should not call it.... but we have as a group consistently failed to > do this. i would suggest that if people can't drop using *it*, then we > have to give up. it is very difficult doing such brand management in > an online group. we should be aware that Pharo is a specific brand we > are trying to maintain. we can't control what comes out of folks > keyboards.... > > thanks > Mike > > On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor.girba(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> This was decided a long time ago: >> - PharoCore is PharoCore >> - PharoDev is Pharo (and from now on, perhaps it would be great to not talk >> about PharoDev anymore) >> >> So, Pharo is PharoDev. In fact, only for very few people will PharoCore be >> interesting. For most, Pharo(Dev) it is the interesting part. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> On 14 May 2010, at 20:48, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >>> On 14 May 2010 21:36, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I mean "pharo" is "pharo core" >>>> >>>> Is Linux only the Kernel? No. >>>> You have a Linux version (distro) and the kernel version. >>>> >>>>> and "pharo dev" is just pharo+packages loaded >>>> >>>> Pharo-dev is what is distributed by default and typically >>>> called "Pharo". Similar to the platform and loaded packages >>>> in Eclipse or the linux kernel with loaded packages to form >>>> a Linux system. >>>> >>> >>> My 2c. >>> >>> I think that the difference here is that Pharo-Core maintained by >>> Pharo team and under their direct >>> responsibility, while Pharo-dev includes various packages, which is >>> maintained separately. >>> >>> Pharo team, of course having a strong influence on Pharo-dev shape, >>> but main focus is core. >>> >>>> Bye >>>> T. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! >>>> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "To lead is not to demand things, it is to make them happen." >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] So...we freeze 1.1 ? (next steps?)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On May 17, 2010, at 8:58 PM, Michael Roberts wrote: > what are the exact problems with the network? lukas' email said that > the resolver behaviour had changed positively, not that there was an > issue. or did i miss read? no you did not miss anything. We wanted to check that there was a problem before doing the same rollback that in 1.0. So far nobody reported any problem. So we will turn beta (yes beta) and see. stef > > thanks, > Mike > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:21 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> So what do you suggest >> beta for two three weeks >> then rc1 >> >> Stef >> >> On May 17, 2010, at 10:00 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:29 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> Unstable is alpha. We called it that way so that people do not start to use it :) >>> >>> Ok, we can tag it beta then. >>> >>> But now we should go beta=releaseCandidate1 >>> >>> >>> No, I don't agree. That's not the same. One thing is beta and another thing is a release candidate. >>> >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On May 16, 2010, at 11:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 11:16 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> check the network problem. >>>> But we can release rc1 anytime now. >>>> >>>> >>>> No, please. We are not in a RC yet. We should first go as alpha, then beta and finally RC. >>>> We cannot go in a RC with the first build ever. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Mariano >>>> >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> On May 16, 2010, at 11:00 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>>> Mariano, >>>>> >>>>> What is needed for Pharo 1.1? Not much I feel. I produced yesterday a Pharo1.1 from a core, and it works perfectly, including condenseChange. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 16 May 2010, at 11:14, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We are basically ready >>>>>> Waiting for feedback on network. >>>>>> >>>>>> Stef >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 16, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> We said that for middle May we were going to freeze 1.1. This means, no more new features or refactors. Just bug fixes. So, the next steps can be: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Release a PharoCore1.1 with the last version we have so far tagged as alpha1 (please, put this tag in the zip, .image and .changes). This may be, for example: Pharo-1.1-11360-alpha1.image >>>>>>> - Build and release a Pharo 1.1 alpha1 based on such core (now we have almost all dev tools working well in 1.1) >>>>>>> - Make publish all new VMs (for each OS) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Then the idea is that people/developers start to play with Pharo 1.1. It may be quite unstable as this is the first release for 1.1. People should try to load their own packages, adapt them (if necessary) to 1.1, and report all issues they find (and fixes!!). But they should keep in mind this the first alpha ;) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> With these, we will be testing: new VMs, PharoCore, PharoDev tools, and external packages (from other people). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pharo team at the same time, continues to work, fixing and integrating. We make new versions as we have been doing so far. When we consider, we release an alpha2....then beta, then RC and finally Pharo 1.1. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> now...do you think there is an issue that is so important to be fixed/included in the first Pharo1.1 even being a first alpha ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mariano >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 17, 2010