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Re: [Pharo-project] Rome Canvas to replace an ordinary canvas [Was: Re: Rendering fonts on OpenGL ]

by Igor Stasenko

On 24 May 2010 22:11, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> Ok. Let me start. > > Excellent I want to learn. > And I will ask cyrille to read all that. > The first things is that we should get Rome working then we fix the api. > > >> Rome/Athens adds variouls extension methods to classes which are >> involved with graphics. >> Here is one of them: >> >> GradientFillStyle>>installOnRomePluginCanvas: aCanvas >> Â Â Â | colorStops i | >> Â Â Â colorStops := WordArray new: colorRamp size * 3. >> Â Â Â i := 0. >> Â Â Â colorRamp do: [:stop | >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: (stop key * 65536.0) rounded. >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: stop value privateRGB. >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: stop value privateAlpha]. >> Â Â Â radial == true >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifTrue: [ >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â aCanvas primFillRadialGradientOriginX: origin x asFloat >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â y: origin y asFloat >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â directionX: direction x asFloat >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â y: direction y asFloat >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â normalX: self normal x asFloat >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â y: self normal y asFloat >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â colorStops: colorStops] >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifFalse: [ >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â aCanvas primFillLinearGradientOriginX: origin x asFloat >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â y: origin y asFloat >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â directionX: direction x asFloat >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â y: direction y asFloat >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â colorStops: colorStops] >> >> Good: >> - a conversion method is context sensitive (it takes a canvas as an argument) >> Bad: >> - this conversion method will work only for Rome plugin and nothing else. > > how to you see that? > Well, consider this: colorRamp do: [:stop | colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: (stop key * 65536.0) rounded. colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: stop value privateRGB. colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: stop value privateAlpha]. most likely, this will be inappropriate for anything else than RomePlugin. While, of course each kind of canvas could implement own #primFillLinearGradientOriginX: y:directionX: y: colorStops: except that it should not be a prim, and then it will waste time converting color stops again - into a form, which fits best for its own needs. So, why using 2 conversions, where 1 is enough? :) In same way, #asFloat may be not necessary, because canvas could accept integers as well as floats, so converting everything to floats is just a waste of time. > >> This means, that if i'd want to use different canvas, i will need to >> add another method >> which will perform a conversion. > > you lost me there. But I ;m sure that you will explain it to me :) > I meant that i would need to add the GradientFillStyle>>installOnRomeGLCanvas: aCanvas instead of reusing the code. > >> But this can be avoided, if we provide a generic canvas method to >> create a gradient fills. >> Then this method could be renamed to #installOnRomeCanvas: >> and implementation will consist of messages, sent to canvas to build a >> gradient fill. > > do you have a sketch that I follow the example 100% > GradientFillStyle>>installOnRomeCanvas: aCanvas ^ aCanvas cacheAt: self ifAbsentPut: [ aCanvas gradientFill: #linear origin: ... colors: ... ] and generally, a persistent resources (or ones which may change, but rarely) could use a following pattern: Something>>installOnRomeCanvas: aCanvas self isChanged ifTrue: [ aCanvas invalidateCache: self ]. ^ aCanvas cacheAt: self ifAbsentPut: [ aCanvas createSomething: ... ] Then, after heating-up, it will run at maximum efficiency by using a cached (and already converted resources) instead of performing conversions each time. >> Another example: >> >> asRomeFill , asRomeFont >> >> - this is bad. >> Its not a context-sensitive. And therefore , an implementation of >> these methods assumes that it will provide >> the most suitable conversion of fill or font for Rome backend. >> But depending on backend, it may not be the case! >> So, all methods like this, should always use a canvas as argument and >> talk back to canvas >> to perform a conversion. > > I see we need a factory and the canvas will play this role. > Yes. > Stef >> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

May 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] cant remove accept: method

by Sean Allen

Sorry. I see that just plain old 'remove method' works, just not from refactoring menu. On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Sean Allen <sean(a)monkeysnatchbanana.com> wrote: > Pharo 1.0 > > I have a class that has a method accept: that is no longer used. > > When I go to remove it, I get the message: > > Possible call to accept: in XXXX Browse? > > If you do no, it doesn't remove the method. > If you do yes, you can only browse, not remove. > > How can I remove the method short of filing out the class, removing the method > and filing the class back in? >

May 24, 2010

[Pharo-project] I need another pair of eyes to look at: super look in debugger

by stephane ducasse

http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=2446 Stef

May 24, 2010

[Pharo-project] cant remove accept: method

by Sean Allen

Pharo 1.0 I have a class that has a method accept: that is no longer used. When I go to remove it, I get the message: Possible call to accept: in XXXX Browse? If you do no, it doesn't remove the method. If you do yes, you can only browse, not remove. How can I remove the method short of filing out the class, removing the method and filing the class back in?

May 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Rome Canvas to replace an ordinary canvas [Was: Re: Rendering fonts on OpenGL ]

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> Ok. Let me start. Excellent I want to learn. And I will ask cyrille to read all that. The first things is that we should get Rome working then we fix the api. > Rome/Athens adds variouls extension methods to classes which are > involved with graphics. > Here is one of them: > > GradientFillStyle>>installOnRomePluginCanvas: aCanvas > | colorStops i | > colorStops := WordArray new: colorRamp size * 3. > i := 0. > colorRamp do: [:stop | > colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: (stop key * 65536.0) rounded. > colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: stop value privateRGB. > colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: stop value privateAlpha]. > radial == true > ifTrue: [ > aCanvas primFillRadialGradientOriginX: origin x asFloat > y: origin y asFloat > directionX: direction x asFloat > y: direction y asFloat > normalX: self normal x asFloat > y: self normal y asFloat > colorStops: colorStops] > ifFalse: [ > aCanvas primFillLinearGradientOriginX: origin x asFloat > y: origin y asFloat > directionX: direction x asFloat > y: direction y asFloat > colorStops: colorStops] > > Good: > - a conversion method is context sensitive (it takes a canvas as an argument) > Bad: > - this conversion method will work only for Rome plugin and nothing else. how to you see that? > This means, that if i'd want to use different canvas, i will need to > add another method > which will perform a conversion. you lost me there. But I ;m sure that you will explain it to me :) > But this can be avoided, if we provide a generic canvas method to > create a gradient fills. > Then this method could be renamed to #installOnRomeCanvas: > and implementation will consist of messages, sent to canvas to build a > gradient fill. do you have a sketch that I follow the example 100% > Another example: > > asRomeFill , asRomeFont > > - this is bad. > Its not a context-sensitive. And therefore , an implementation of > these methods assumes that it will provide > the most suitable conversion of fill or font for Rome backend. > But depending on backend, it may not be the case! > So, all methods like this, should always use a canvas as argument and > talk back to canvas > to perform a conversion. I see we need a factory and the canvas will play this role. Stef > >> Stef >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Concurrency in Pharo?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

you know dabbledb, cmsbox and other are all based on squeak/pharo so you heart does not have to sink yet :) Stef On May 24, 2010, at 8:36 PM, Andrei Stebakov wrote: > I've been really impressed with what Seaside and Pier were capable of and really wanted to start my new web project with Pharo. > I learned that Pharo (and most other open source ST implementations) only use green threads, having no ability to use a multi-core CPU systems. > For those of you with experience building mid to heavy load web sites, how do you expect them to scale up on using just one core? > Is Pharo a right tool for that? > Maybe Pharo (Squeak) has something up its sleeve to handle this, but my heart really sank when I learned about this issue... > > Thank you, > Andrei > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Rome Canvas to replace an ordinary canvas [Was: Re: Rendering fonts on OpenGL ]

by Igor Stasenko

On 24 May 2010 21:16, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Guess what is my choice :) > >>>>> >> Yes. But i want to stress, what meaning we are putting into 'API'. > > the real one :) >> >> API is protocols, not classes. > > >> So, a code which renders something using API, should use only messages >> sent to a canvas object. >> The difference could be illustrated by following: >> >> a) >> drawOn: aCanvas >> >> Â path := RomePath new. >> Â path moveTo: .. lineTo:... close. >> Â aCanvas strokePath: path >> >> b) >> drawOn: aCanvas >> >> Â path := aCanvas newPath. >> Â path moveTo: .. lineTo:... close. >> Â aCanvas strokePath: path >> >> In case a) you are introducing a dependency on a concrete path >> implementation(RomePath). >> in case b) you asking a canvas to provide a path instance, which >> conforms to a path protocol. >> >> Here lies the main difference, which either gives you a freedom of >> choice, or otherwise makes your code inflexible. >> That's what i mean by no dependecy. > > I understood it :) > >> In case b), a rendering backend is >> free to use own data structures >> to optimally reify a path(s), while in case a) you forcing a canvas to >> have an intimate knowledge about RomePath >> - a concrete implementation, which may not fit best for canvas and >> hence it will waste cycles converting a path >> representation into more appropriate form, in order to render it. >> >> That's why, if we follow path b), then morphic rendering could be >> completely autonomous, >> and do not depend on concrete Rome API implementation. >> And enforcing it from a very starting, will make sure that we won't >> introduce unnecessary >> dependencies and inflexibility. > > so this is why it would be good to have a concrete scenario to stress and validate > the Athens new canvas > I would really like to see how the one of Morphic 30 will fit into it too. > Me too! > So let us start like that: > Â Â Â Â - design your API with flexibility in mind + ROME from the point of you of Canvas method > Â Â Â Â - give feedback about athens inflexibility > Â Â Â Â - we update it > Â Â Â Â - we iterate > the goal should be that at the end we can get really fast a different back-end. > With a bit of chance we will d the same with Morphic30 and we will have a cool system. > Ok. Let me start. Rome/Athens adds variouls extension methods to classes which are involved with graphics. Here is one of them: GradientFillStyle>>installOnRomePluginCanvas: aCanvas | colorStops i | colorStops := WordArray new: colorRamp size * 3. i := 0. colorRamp do: [:stop | colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: (stop key * 65536.0) rounded. colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: stop value privateRGB. colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: stop value privateAlpha]. radial == true ifTrue: [ aCanvas primFillRadialGradientOriginX: origin x asFloat y: origin y asFloat directionX: direction x asFloat y: direction y asFloat normalX: self normal x asFloat y: self normal y asFloat colorStops: colorStops] ifFalse: [ aCanvas primFillLinearGradientOriginX: origin x asFloat y: origin y asFloat directionX: direction x asFloat y: direction y asFloat colorStops: colorStops] Good: - a conversion method is context sensitive (it takes a canvas as an argument) Bad: - this conversion method will work only for Rome plugin and nothing else. This means, that if i'd want to use different canvas, i will need to add another method which will perform a conversion. But this can be avoided, if we provide a generic canvas method to create a gradient fills. Then this method could be renamed to #installOnRomeCanvas: and implementation will consist of messages, sent to canvas to build a gradient fill. Another example: asRomeFill , asRomeFont - this is bad. Its not a context-sensitive. And therefore , an implementation of these methods assumes that it will provide the most suitable conversion of fill or font for Rome backend. But depending on backend, it may not be the case! So, all methods like this, should always use a canvas as argument and talk back to canvas to perform a conversion. > Stef > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

May 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Concurrency in Pharo?

by Lukas Renggli

> I've been really impressed with what Seaside and Pier were capable of and > really wanted to start my new web project with Pharo. GemStone/S runs Seaside and Pier and scales across multiple CPUs infinitely, if scalability with Pharo should be a problem. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

May 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Concurrency in Pharo?

by Dale Henrichs

Andrei, GemStone/S and GLASS provides a free for commercial use multi-vm environment that provides "image-based persistence". With an annual license you can use multiple vms across multiple cores. A number of folks using GemStone develop in Pharo and deploy in GemStone, so that mode of operation is realistic... Dale Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > This is a good question. I don't have experience by myself but I can tell you what I think it is usually done: > > 1) For one CPU: > > If the image don't need to be saved (no need of in image persistence) you can take the same VM and load N number of images running at the same .image. You can even not use .changes and .sources. Each image in different port. Then, you have in front of them a web server (Apache or friends) and you do load balance. The only thing you should take care with Seaside is to have AFFINITY -> the same client should go always to the same image while a conversation occurs. This is just a web-server setting. > > 2) For multiple core, I am thinking, maybe I am wrong, you may be able to load different vms. For assigning each VM to a particular CPU. I don't know windows, but in Linux (maybe I am wrong) I think you can specify where to exclusively run a process. The, for each VM you do 1). > Do you know if this can work? > > Finally, there are different VM that aim not necessary multiple CPU but similar: > > - COG VM > - Hydra > > I cc'ed may developers of them so that they can help you. > > Cheers > > Mariano > > > 2010/5/24 Andrei Stebakov <lispercat(a)gmail.com<mailto:lispercat@gmail.com>> > I've been really impressed with what Seaside and Pier were capable of and really wanted to start my new web project with Pharo. > I learned that Pharo (and most other open source ST implementations) only use green threads, having no ability to use a multi-core CPU systems. > For those of you with experience building mid to heavy load web sites, how do you expect them to scale up on using just one core? > Is Pharo a right tool for that? > Maybe Pharo (Squeak) has something up its sleeve to handle this, but my heart really sank when I learned about this issue... > > Thank you, > Andrei > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > >

May 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Concurrency in Pharo?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

This is a good question. I don't have experience by myself but I can tell you what I think it is usually done: 1) For one CPU: If the image don't need to be saved (no need of in image persistence) you can take the same VM and load N number of images running at the same .image. You can even not use .changes and .sources. Each image in different port. Then, you have in front of them a web server (Apache or friends) and you do load balance. The only thing you should take care with Seaside is to have AFFINITY -> the same client should go always to the same image while a conversation occurs. This is just a web-server setting. 2) For multiple core, I am thinking, maybe I am wrong, you may be able to load different vms. For assigning each VM to a particular CPU. I don't know windows, but in Linux (maybe I am wrong) I think you can specify where to exclusively run a process. The, for each VM you do 1). Do you know if this can work? Finally, there are different VM that aim not necessary multiple CPU but similar: - COG VM - Hydra I cc'ed may developers of them so that they can help you. Cheers Mariano 2010/5/24 Andrei Stebakov <lispercat(a)gmail.com> > I've been really impressed with what Seaside and Pier were capable of and > really wanted to start my new web project with Pharo. > I learned that Pharo (and most other open source ST implementations) only > use green threads, having no ability to use a multi-core CPU systems. > For those of you with experience building mid to heavy load web sites, how > do you expect them to scale up on using just one core? > Is Pharo a right tool for that? > Maybe Pharo (Squeak) has something up its sleeve to handle this, but my > heart really sank when I learned about this issue... > > Thank you, > Andrei > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 24, 2010