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Re: [Pharo-project] CLFramework and Pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jun 30, 2010, at 12:53 PM, nullPointer wrote: > > Regards > >> 3. I dont understand why the license changed from MIT to BSD but >> that does not allow us to include the now released version 90 or further >> work in the MIT licensed pharo-dev. > > > DonÂ´t exists problem for change the license. What differences exists between one > and other? there are equivalent: moose is developed under BSD on top of Pharo MIT Now we prefer all the pharo code to be MIT. > I expect a day in the life of Pharo where people will demand more support > to build >> visual tools. So to create a UI Builder the community > >> - either has to start from scratch then >> - or continue with the project as a fork based on an earlier version >> ("CLFramework-nullPointer.70.mcz" was the last one released as MIT) > > > I believe is best create another from scratch, but with WPF like model and XAML > as UI definition language. That is for people with best knowledges. I'm not convinced that we cannot learn from your development. > > The current version is 90. The main difference is addition of grid control. > > PS. IÂ´m wrong before and did send the answer directly your mail, excuse me. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

June 30, 2010

[Pharo-project] CLFramework and Pharo

by Torsten Bergmann

Hi Gerard, >DonÂ´t exists problem for change the license. What differences exists between >one and other? I dont understand. If you dont know the difference why did you change from MIT to BSD for CLFramework? I'm not a lawyer but AFAIK the MIT states more explicitly the rights given to the end-user. And there are many BSD versions "Modified BSD license", "The Clear BSD License", "FreeBSD license", ... MIT is what Pharo uses and accepts for inclusion. Keeping MIT for the framework would also help to reuse part of your code in Pharo itself or use the UI builder as part of special Pharo distributions. Maybe also there is a way that the project continues >I believe is best create another from scratch, but with WPF like model and >XAML as UI definition language. That is for people with best knowledges. That sounds like the project really stopped from your side. Sad since beside "Dr. Geo II" [1] it was another real and interesting use case for Polymorph and was/is a usable UI builder. Laurent wrote on [2] >nullpointer, the code is important, sharing your experience is *far* more >important. Please, do so. Yes that would be good to know about the reasons. We know that you were not satisfied with your own code - but who of us really is? >The main difference is addition of grid control. Better widgets for Polymorph are always a plus ... when you accept MIT and sent the agreement [3] to Stef it may not be lost and can be folded back to Polymorph and Pharo. Or someone may step up and continue with the whole project. Would be sad if all your efforts would be lost. Thanks T. [1] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2010-April/025543.html [2] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2010-June/028789.html [3] http://pharo.gforge.inria.fr/licenseDocuments/PharoSoftwareDistributionAgre… -- GMX DSL: Internet-, Telefon- und Handy-Flat ab 19,99 EUR/mtl. Bis zu 150 EUR Startguthaben inklusive! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl

June 30, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] 1.2 vision

by GermÃ¡n Arduino

2010/6/30 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de>: > > GermÃ¡n wrote: >>disable programmer facilities (as was talked in the thread of some time ago) > > I started with this, see ImageLocker-Core-tbn.1.mcz > in http://squeaksource.com/PharoGoodies/ > > Feel free to help here. > Thanks Torsten: I will take a look soon, because next week I will make a deploy on a production customer (Will be my first Pharo production deploy!). Cheers. -- ================================================= GermÃ¡n S. Arduino <gsa @ arsol.net> Twitter: garduino Arduino Software & Web Hosting http://www.arduinosoftware.com PasswordsPro http://www.passwordspro.com =================================================

June 30, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] CLFramework and Pharo

by nullPointer

Regards >3. I dont understand why the license changed from MIT to BSD but >that does not allow us to include the now released version 90 or further > work in the MIT licensed pharo-dev. DonÂ´t exists problem for change the license. What differences exists between one and other? >I expect a day in the life of Pharo where people will demand more support to build >visual tools. So to create a UI Builder the community >- either has to start from scratch then >- or continue with the project as a fork based on an earlier version > ("CLFramework-nullPointer.70.mcz" was the last one released as MIT) I believe is best create another from scratch, but with WPF like model and XAML as UI definition language. That is for people with best knowledges. The current version is 90. The main difference is addition of grid control. PS. IÂ´m wrong before and did send the answer directly your mail, excuse me.

June 30, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] 1.2 vision

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

for me this one is the key one :) testAbsoluteAuthority >> "self debug: #testAbsoluteAuthority" >> >> <test: #URI about: 'absolute uri with authority' tag: #(network )> >> >> | uri absoluteURIString | >> "An absolute URI with authority. An absolute URI starts with a scheme:" >> absoluteURIString := 'http://www.pharo-project.org'. >> uri := URI fromString: absoluteURIString. >> self assert: (uri asString = absoluteURIString). >> self assert: (uri isAbsolute). >> self assert: (uri authority asString = 'www.pharo-project.org'). >> self deny: (uri isOpaque). ... [show rest of quote] -> create an entry in the HelpSystem URI |> class comment of URI |> absolute uri with authority V testAbsoluteAuthority "self debug: #testAbsoluteAuthority" <test: #URI about: 'absolute uri with authority' tag: #(network )> | uri absoluteURIString | "An absolute URI with authority. An absolute URI starts with a scheme:" absoluteURIString := 'http://www.pharo-project.org'. uri := URI fromString: absoluteURIString. self assert: (uri asString = absoluteURIString). self assert: (uri isAbsolute). self assert: (uri authority asString = 'www.pharo-project.org'). self deny: (uri isOpaque). |> If there is a another test tagged with URI it should show up below But may be we could do that based on setting because everything is there. Stef

June 30, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] CLFramework and Pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> I've just noticed that "nullPointer" now recreated http://www.squeaksource.com/CLFramework again > and uploaded CLFramework-nullPointer.90.mcz Cool! This is a great news. > This time the code has a BSD license. The page says "Failed attempt of visual UI builder > for Pharo-Polymorph. Abbandoned. Only works in Pharo 1.0" > > From my point of view: > > 1. This sounds very negative and I dont understand what lead to this decision. Me neither. > Similar to the decision to delete the project on SqS midway. > Especially since the previews looked really really good. > Is it a time or other issue on nullpointer's side or did the community > fail in support... No idea > 2. This looks to me as if the project will stop now with 1.0 and is > not moved to 1.1. or 1.2 But may be people can port it. > 3. I dont understand why the license changed from MIT to BSD but > that does not allow us to include the now released version 90 or further > work in the MIT licensed pharo-dev. BSD and MIT are compatible and I'm sure that we can ask the author to change it > I expect a day in the life of Pharo where people will demand more support to build > visual tools. So to create a UI Builder the community > > - either has to start from scratch then > - or continue with the project as a fork based on an earlier version > ("CLFramework-nullPointer.70.mcz" was the last one released as MIT) Does it load in pharo1.1? > > Really sad. > > Bye > T. > > -- > GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! > Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

June 30, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] 1.2 vision

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > > We have a functional prototype that does overlapped calls. Its a multi-threaded VM based on David Simmons' ideas that allows only one thread to execute Smalltalk at any one time. Again I can't say anything either way as to when or whether this will be released. But we did finally release Cog , so at least there's a precedent :) I like precedent like that one :) Stef

June 30, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] CLFramework and Pharo

by laurent laffont

Indeed what I really want to know: - why is it considered as failed ? - what were the errors made ? - if we re-start from scratch, what we should *not* do ? - if we fork it, what should we trash / rewrite ? It's sad because "nullPointer" must have gain a lot of experience doing this, even if he doesn't like the code he has written, bump on hard issues, .... nullpointer, the code is important, sharing your experience is *far* more important. Please, do so. Cheers, Laurent Laffont http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > I've just noticed that "nullPointer" now recreated > http://www.squeaksource.com/CLFramework again > and uploaded CLFramework-nullPointer.90.mcz > > This time the code has a BSD license. The page says "Failed attempt of > visual UI builder > for Pharo-Polymorph. Abbandoned. Only works in Pharo 1.0" > > From my point of view: > > 1. This sounds very negative and I dont understand what lead to this > decision. > Similar to the decision to delete the project on SqS midway. > Especially since the previews looked really really good. > Is it a time or other issue on nullpointer's side or did the community > fail in support... > > 2. This looks to me as if the project will stop now with 1.0 and is > not moved to 1.1. or 1.2 > > 3. I dont understand why the license changed from MIT to BSD but > that does not allow us to include the now released version 90 or further > work in the MIT licensed pharo-dev. > > I expect a day in the life of Pharo where people will demand more support > to build > visual tools. So to create a UI Builder the community > > - either has to start from scratch then > - or continue with the project as a fork based on an earlier version > ("CLFramework-nullPointer.70.mcz" was the last one released as MIT) > > Really sad. > > Bye > T. > > -- > GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! > Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

June 30, 2010

[Pharo-project] [ANN 1.1] pre-built RC3 Core

by Marcus Denker

https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/27218/PharoCore-1.1-11406-rc3.zip -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

June 30, 2010

[Pharo-project] CLFramework and Pharo

by Torsten Bergmann

I've just noticed that "nullPointer" now recreated http://www.squeaksource.com/CLFramework again and uploaded CLFramework-nullPointer.90.mcz This time the code has a BSD license. The page says "Failed attempt of visual UI builder for Pharo-Polymorph. Abbandoned. Only works in Pharo 1.0" >From my point of view: 1. This sounds very negative and I dont understand what lead to this decision. Similar to the decision to delete the project on SqS midway. Especially since the previews looked really really good. Is it a time or other issue on nullpointer's side or did the community fail in support... 2. This looks to me as if the project will stop now with 1.0 and is not moved to 1.1. or 1.2 3. I dont understand why the license changed from MIT to BSD but that does not allow us to include the now released version 90 or further work in the MIT licensed pharo-dev. I expect a day in the life of Pharo where people will demand more support to build visual tools. So to create a UI Builder the community - either has to start from scratch then - or continue with the project as a fork based on an earlier version ("CLFramework-nullPointer.70.mcz" was the last one released as MIT) Really sad. Bye T. -- GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01

June 30, 2010