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Re: [Pharo-project] Sockets in Pharo CollaborActive Book

by Michael Roberts

>> > Cool, I appreciate you getting the ball rolling - I am trying to push it > further! (and I don't know too much about sockets) no worries. I have found this guide really useful: http://beej.us/guide/bgnet/ Even if you don't read C, there are lots of comments throughout. cheers Mike

Sept. 1, 2010

[Pharo-project] Two notes on Sockets! (was Re: Sockets in Pharo CollaborActive Book)

by GÃ¶ran Krampe

Hi all! Two notes (no, haven't read all posts on this subject): 1. IMHO for almost 99% of your needs you would use SocketStream and not Socket directly to write a socket client. I wrote the current SocketStream implementation and I have written several clients using it - like the latest StompProtocol on SS etc. Please, please, use SocketStream in your introduction to socket client programming! 2. I haven't looked at Andreas' new WebServer but I presume it is a "standard" forking server just like the old Comanche/KomHttpServer codebase is. A while back I wrote Blackfoot - a SimpleCGI implementation and then I extracted the essential "forking Socket server" code from KomHttpServer so that it can be easily understood and reused. I tend to point to Blackfoot as a very good "example" to use in this regard. We could even split out the generic part as a "standard class" to use. In fact, Stephen Pair did this with the TcpServices library a long time ago when he rewrote Comanche into KomHttpServer BUT... I think it got a bit overengineered and would instead point to Blackfoot as a good candidate for such a "SocketServer" class. regards, GÃ¶ran

Sept. 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] WebClient-Core port to Pharo 1.1 final

by Serge Stinckwich

Don't confuse open-source software with free software: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.html 2010/8/31 Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ MartÃnez <miguel.coba(a)gmail.com>: > El mar, 31-08-2010 a las 00:43 +0200, Levente Uzonyi escribiÃ³: >> On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ MartÃnez wrote: >> >> > El mar, 31-08-2010 a las 00:25 +0200, Levente Uzonyi escribiÃ³: >> > On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, Friedrich Dominicus wrote: >> > >> > > Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> writes: >> > >> > > On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> > > >> > >>>> >> > >>>> I suggest that the people that want and know, group together and build an open-source one. >> > >>> >> > >>> Why do you have to have your "own" library? >> > >> >> > >> Did I say "pharo library"? reread carefully I said an "open-source one". >> > > >> > > What I get from Andreas' words is that he's willing to make it open >> > > source if it won't be forked. >> > Hm I think this is impossible. If it's OS it's up to whomever get its >> > hand on it. Or am I mistaken? >> > >> > >> > Just think about GPL, it's open source, but you can't fork the code if you >> > don't release your changes as GPL too. >> >> "I don't get it. If it Â is open source then is forkable. Period. >> If it is a special case like GPL, it add some other restriction, like >> you can't redistribute the new code without it being also GPL. You can >> fork it and not using GPL for the new changes, the restriction is that >> you can't redistribute it." >> >> From wikipedia: "Open-source software (OSS) is computer software that is >> available in source code form for which the source code and certain other >> rights normally reserved for copyright holders are provided under a >> software license that permits users to study, change, and improve the >> software." >> >> There's nothing about forking or redistributing here. I could make a >> license that says: you can study, change and improve the software, but >> you can't redistribute it without my permission. >> >> "But the fact remains that it is forkable always. If you don't want it >> forkable, then use other non open source license." >> >> See above. You could "fork" it, but that wouldn't be open source anymore. >> > > You must be kidding. The freedom to fork is a essential right of open > source software: > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10379280-16.html > > http://asay.blogspot.com/2006/10/wither-right-to-fork.html > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd > http://www.opensource.org/node/357 > > period. > >> >> Levente >> >> >> Cheers >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > Levente >> > >> > >> > Regards >> > Friedrich >> > >> > -- >> > Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim >> > Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pharo-project mailing list >> > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> -- >> Miguel CobÃ¡ >> http://miguel.leugim.com.mx >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > Miguel CobÃ¡ > http://miguel.leugim.com.mx > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/

Sept. 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] What are you using to write reports?

by Yanni Chiu

Friedrich Dominicus wrote: > Well I have thought about LaTex also. But you have to agree an Excel can > not make much use of a LaTex document ;-( If you really want MS Excel, then you can easily reverse-engineer the XML format that MS Excel (optionally) uses. Not so long ago, on a paid job, I wrote code to emit report data in an XML format of my choosing. Then an xslt transformation was used to turn it into the XML format that MS Excel could use. -- Yanni

Sept. 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] What are you using to write reports?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

If you must push into Excel (it's far easier to let it import from text), you will be using Windows, and therefore could perhaps create something with VBA. VBA for Dummies is a good book; get it with the CD and read what is on the latter (trust me). Know that VBA is designed with what Steve Jobs so aptly called (referring to MS in general) "no taste." But with lots of reverse engineering, it is possible to create documents and add cells. Again, it makes a lot more sense to write text and let Excel import it. OpenOffice has some type of (Java??) scripting interface. That might be a little better and perhaps even friendlier than MS' offerings and might then be induced to create .xls files. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Friedrich Dominicus [frido(a)q-software-solutions.de] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 1:32 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] What are you using to write reports? Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ MartÃnez <miguel.coba(a)gmail.com> writes: > El mar, 31-08-2010 a las 08:13 +0200, Friedrich Dominicus escribiÃ³: >> I'm working slowly through Seaside, Aida, Pharo etc. I just wonder what >> you are using to make "usable" reports. (Be it in electronical form or >> printed). A related question, how does you interface e.g to let's say >> OpenOffice or maybe MS Office? > > Several ways, with several degrees of work involved. > > - Use OSProcess et al. to start a perl program that use > Spreadsheet::WriteExcel module to do the read write for example to excel > format. Thanks Miguel. There are a few problems with it. I use the following languages like the plague (C++, Perl) and no I'm not willing to change that. > - Use a internal webpage in PHP, Python, whatever that takes POST data > and writes it to a given file in the filesystem. Then your app just put > a link in seaside to download the file Hm I though about it the other way. I have my Web applicatoin and like to get some forms in a spreadsheet format. Anyways thanks for pointing that out to me. Regards Friedrich -- Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] What are you using to write reports?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

No, but Excel (or OpenOffice Calc) can do a nice job of slurping up tab-delimited text. If you give it a chance, LaTeX will ruin you for word processors. Who wants to worry about where stuff goes or in what font? Use markup to describe what you are writing, and let the computer fuss with the details. I can spot something typeset with LaTeX a mile away, simply by its (invariably) superior page design, something that requires no thought at all. ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Friedrich Dominicus [frido(a)q-software-solutions.de] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 1:29 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] What are you using to write reports? "Schwab,Wilhelm K" <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> writes: > Tab-delimited text is very useful; I tend to see the world in terms of > R (http://cran.r-project.org/) data frames, even when I do not plan to > involve R. HTML makes a nice way to scroll through data. As for > connecting with OpenOffice or (I can't say it<g>), I find LaTeX to be > much nicer to use. It has a steep learning curve, but the view from > near the top is pretty good. Well I have thought about LaTex also. But you have to agree an Excel can not make much use of a LaTex document ;-( Regards Friedrich -- Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Sockets in Pharo CollaborActive Book

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

I am certainly willing to help with the work, and while I am by no means an expert on sockets, I have seen some good code. As we stand now, it is all but impossible to do things correctly; that will become clear by contrast, but only if people are willing to challenge their ideas. Timeouts are bad (unless provided by helper methods so they are explicitly requested); errors are helpful (silent failures are toxic); events are essential. It sounds like there are at least four of us who have strong interest in getting this right. We probably should have some discussion here, then describe a plan on the wiki and finally start coding. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ MartÃnez [miguel.coba(a)gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:10 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Sockets in Pharo CollaborActive Book El mar, 31-08-2010 a las 23:59 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribiÃ³: > The deeper question is whether we want to document how things are, or they they *should be* - which is VERY much different from the eventless and timeout ridden design that we have now. It desperately needs to be redesigned. > Maybe it needs someone to lead the effort. Why don't you begin with this? It appears that you know a lot about sockets. Certainly the pharo community will be grateful of your efforts. But saying again and again that sockets sucks doesn't fix it for anybody, including you. So, as Stef says, less saying, more coding. Very respectfully, show us your code :) Cheers > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Sean P. DeNigris [sean(a)clipperadams.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 10:41 PM > To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Sockets in Pharo CollaborActive Book > > Michael Roberts-2 wrote: > > > > The example > > <snip> > > is only server side. If you follow the sections, you can see I used > > netcat as the client and illustrated some simple cmd line debugging > > techniques. the code above whilst it could of course contains bugs > > and not use the right API is consistent in what it tries to do. > > > Ah, okay. Now I got it. The client temporary variable, along with the fact > that this snippet is a section to itself confused me and I didn't keep > reading. > > >so is this where we want to direct people first? > > Michael Roberts-2 wrote: > > > > well, no, but sockets are fundamental and should be explained. I had > > only imagined it the seed for something bigger. the colab book will > > not expand unless people start somewhere. It is a work in progress as > > well, remember that... > > > Cool, I appreciate you getting the ball rolling - I am trying to push it > further! (and I don't know too much about sockets) > > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Sockets-in-Pharo-CollaborActive-Book-tp2399361p240254… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Miguel CobÃ¡ http://miguel.leugim.com.mx _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 1, 2010

[Pharo-project] Image file format ?

by James Ladd

Hi All, I'm looking for information on the image file format, something that tells me the layout. A little like this: +--------+ ! version ! +--------+ ! count ! +--------+ etc. I can glean this information from the Squeak C sources but I'm wanting some additional information for validation. Maybe it is in the blue book but I have also read that Squeak varies on this a little. Also - what is a Compact Class Array section of the image file? Rgs, James.

Sept. 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] What are you using to write reports?

by Friedrich Dominicus

Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ MartÃnez <miguel.coba(a)gmail.com> writes: > El mar, 31-08-2010 a las 08:13 +0200, Friedrich Dominicus escribiÃ³: >> I'm working slowly through Seaside, Aida, Pharo etc. I just wonder what >> you are using to make "usable" reports. (Be it in electronical form or >> printed). A related question, how does you interface e.g to let's say >> OpenOffice or maybe MS Office? > > Several ways, with several degrees of work involved. > > - Use OSProcess et al. to start a perl program that use > Spreadsheet::WriteExcel module to do the read write for example to excel > format. Thanks Miguel. There are a few problems with it. I use the following languages like the plague (C++, Perl) and no I'm not willing to change that. > - Use a internal webpage in PHP, Python, whatever that takes POST data > and writes it to a given file in the filesystem. Then your app just put > a link in seaside to download the file Hm I though about it the other way. I have my Web applicatoin and like to get some forms in a spreadsheet format. Anyways thanks for pointing that out to me. Regards Friedrich -- Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus

Sept. 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] What are you using to write reports?

by Friedrich Dominicus

"Schwab,Wilhelm K" <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> writes: > Tab-delimited text is very useful; I tend to see the world in terms of > R (http://cran.r-project.org/) data frames, even when I do not plan to > involve R. HTML makes a nice way to scroll through data. As for > connecting with OpenOffice or (I can't say it<g>), I find LaTeX to be > much nicer to use. It has a steep learning curve, but the view from > near the top is pretty good. Well I have thought about LaTex also. But you have to agree an Excel can not make much use of a LaTex document ;-( Regards Friedrich -- Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus

Sept. 1, 2010