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Re: [Pharo-project] glamorous theme :)

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 05 Sep 2010, at 09:08, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi Sven, > > I am not sure I understand what you are referring to. Could you be more explicit? Sorry: if you switch to the Pro theme (UIThemePro from the Polymorph-Themes-Pro package, PharoInbox) and do "UITheme exampleBasicControls." you get the following window: The Default Button has an ugly blue border (well the blue border has the wrong shape). Every dialog has this ugly button that's why it is a pity because the Theme is otherwise quite nice. I really got lost trying to fix this (I lack knowledge of all this drawing code). But you probably encountered similar problems. > The reason I chose square shapes is that as long as we do not have proper and fast antialiasing, it requires images (like in the watery2 theme) which are time consuming to produce, or it just does not look nice. Having a fast theme is also a definitive plus, sure. > Cheers, > Doru > > On 5 Sep 2010, at 08:23, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > >> Hi Doru, >> >> Nice indeed, clean & professional, x-platform. I see that you managed to get 'button with focus' (blue border) drawn correctly, even though you subclass 'Watery2' which has round buttons, which was a problem with the Pro theme. I tried to solve it, but I got lost. Maybe you can see what is wrong there ? (see my mail aug 30). >> >> Regards, >> >> Sven >> >> On 04 Sep 2010, at 23:18, Tudor Girba wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Over the past week I worked on a new theme for Pharo called the Glamorous Theme :). The theme is developed in the context of the Glamour project, and its goal is to create a look that: >>> - does not look like a specific operating system. In particular, the icons should be operating system agnostic, because, for example, people in Windows are confused by the red, yellow, green buttons of apple. >>> - uses a limited amount of colors and effects. >>> >>> It is still work in progress, but you can get the current version by executing: >>> >>> Gofer new >>> squeaksource: 'Glamour'; >>> package: 'Glamour-Morphic-Theme'; >>> load. >>> GLMUITheme defaultSettings: nil. >>> GLMUITheme beCurrent. >>> GLMUITheme setPreferredWorldBackground. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru

Sept. 5, 2010

[Pharo-project] Is there a way to limit taskbar

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys in one of our server we got that! - two reactions - we should limit the number of taskbar elements - would be good to have also a real logger (if this is not the case here) instead of transcript to report structured log I will have a look at SimpleLog of goran Stef Begin forwarded message: > From: Damien Pollet <damien.pollet(a)inria.fr> > Date: September 4, 2010 8:00:33 PM GMT+02:00 > To: notre liste <lsehub-staff(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Subject: Re: [Lsehub-staff] apparently http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/ does not answer... anymore. > Reply-To: notre liste <lsehub-staff(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > > VNC works, but here's what it looks like. I don't have access to the world menu, I could open a workspace but it appears somewhere else than visible. > > Pharo needs a proper message logger I guess :) > > > > > > > -- > Damien Pollet > type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet > > >

Sept. 5, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [SPAM] glamorous theme :)

by Tudor Girba

Hi Sven, I am not sure I understand what you are referring to. Could you be more explicit? The reason I chose square shapes is that as long as we do not have proper and fast antialiasing, it requires images (like in the watery2 theme) which are time consuming to produce, or it just does not look nice. Cheers, Doru On 5 Sep 2010, at 08:23, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > Hi Doru, > > Nice indeed, clean & professional, x-platform. I see that you > managed to get 'button with focus' (blue border) drawn correctly, > even though you subclass 'Watery2' which has round buttons, which > was a problem with the Pro theme. I tried to solve it, but I got > lost. Maybe you can see what is wrong there ? (see my mail aug 30). > > Regards, > > Sven > > On 04 Sep 2010, at 23:18, Tudor Girba wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Over the past week I worked on a new theme for Pharo called the >> Glamorous Theme :). The theme is developed in the context of the >> Glamour project, and its goal is to create a look that: >> - does not look like a specific operating system. In particular, >> the icons should be operating system agnostic, because, for >> example, people in Windows are confused by the red, yellow, green >> buttons of apple. >> - uses a limited amount of colors and effects. >> >> It is still work in progress, but you can get the current version >> by executing: >> >> Gofer new >> squeaksource: 'Glamour'; >> package: 'Glamour-Morphic-Theme'; >> load. >> GLMUITheme defaultSettings: nil. >> GLMUITheme beCurrent. >> GLMUITheme setPreferredWorldBackground. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of >> problem understanding." >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- www.tudorgirba.com "We cannot reach the flow of things unless we let go."

Sept. 5, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [SPAM] glamorous theme :)

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi Doru, Nice indeed, clean & professional, x-platform. I see that you managed to get 'button with focus' (blue border) drawn correctly, even though you subclass 'Watery2' which has round buttons, which was a problem with the Pro theme. I tried to solve it, but I got lost. Maybe you can see what is wrong there ? (see my mail aug 30). Regards, Sven On 04 Sep 2010, at 23:18, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > Over the past week I worked on a new theme for Pharo called the Glamorous Theme :). The theme is developed in the context of the Glamour project, and its goal is to create a look that: > - does not look like a specific operating system. In particular, the icons should be operating system agnostic, because, for example, people in Windows are confused by the red, yellow, green buttons of apple. > - uses a limited amount of colors and effects. > > It is still work in progress, but you can get the current version by executing: > > Gofer new > squeaksource: 'Glamour'; > package: 'Glamour-Morphic-Theme'; > load. > GLMUITheme defaultSettings: nil. > GLMUITheme beCurrent. > GLMUITheme setPreferredWorldBackground. > > Cheers, > Doru > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding." > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 5, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Sockets in Pharo CollaborActive Book

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Noury, I was struggling a little with a stream for serial ports, and thought you might have tackled the problem of a generating stream (one that can grow in the background). Now that I type that, maybe Nile has the answer?? Re Ocean, I grabbed a .mcz from SqueakSource and simply browsed the main package. Some comments: (1) no socket stream :( Streams are really slick things, and good read and write stream semantics should exist for sockets. FWIW, Dolphin separates the socket read and write streams, and we might do well to follow their lead. (2) ByteArray>>asAlien loops over the bytes. Do all the bounds checking you want up front (once) and then use memcpy() or something to actually transfer the data. It recently came to my attention that Squeak has no formalized approach to access, copy and move external memory; Pharo needs to offer that, and this is a good place to start. (3) You are planning to attack ipv4 vs. 6 with polymorphism - good call!! (4) OCNTcpSocket>>send: sizes a buffer to match the data provided to it. I'm not sure I like that. You might consider renaming your current #send: to #basicSend: and adding something like send:blob | in | in := blob readStream. [ in atEnd ] whileFalse:[ self basicSend:( in nextAvailable:self alienDataBufferSize ). ]. so that a fixed buffer (which will have to be allocated when the socket is opened) is used to send large blobs in buffer-sized chunks. Better still would be to use array indexing to cope with the blob in pieces but in place to skip the copying. Bill

Sept. 5, 2010

[Pharo-project] polymorph theme feedback

by Tudor Girba

Hi again, While working on the Glamorous Theme, I basically had to learn the design of polymorph and or the theme system. I think the structure is pretty nice, but it still requires work to offer more flexibility. I list here some of the notes I took. I would be happy to provide more feedback and even work with someone on this: - How to control the rounded/square corners of the droplist, normal list and text boxes? - How to control a Splitter drawing? It looks like it does not matter what we specify in separatorFillStyleFor:, it is still drawn embossed. - How to control the menu title? I would like to be able to control the color of the title of the menu (the one that appears for example in the world menu). - How to control the menu rendering? I would like to be able to control the fill style of the menu. - How to control the color of the PanelMorph when the Window is not active? Right now it just gets lighter. I would like to be able to control it, but it looks impossible from the Theme. - How to control the padding of a panel, groupbox, or tab? - How to control the space between buttons in a toolbar? - How to control the menu button in a toolbar? When there is a button with a menu in a toolbar, a default button is created with a gradient that cannot be controlled from the theme. - How to control the menu close button after the menu was pinned? - How to control the display of a splitter in a menu? The MenuLineMorph hardcodes the minWidth and minHeight. It should be delegated to the Theme. - MorphTreeMorph needs to work with Theme (e.g., in adoptPaneColor:) - How to control the arrows of scrollbars? In particular, we would need to be able to define the forms in the theme, not just the vertices. - The settings for the menu rendering seem to affect the rendering of the progress bars. There should be separate entries for the two in the Theme. - It is unclear what the ThemeSettings is for. What goes here and what goes in the Theme? - Some icons are defined in the Theme instance variables, and some are defined in the ThemeIcons. - Is it intended for the ThemeSettings to be subclassed? - Some preferences from ThemeSettings are hardcoded. For example: menuShadowColor or menuTitleBorderColor. - How to control the tick of a checkbox or of a radio button? Right now, there is a tick that gets drawn even if I specify the radioButtonSelectedForm or checkboxSelectedForm Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com "We cannot reach the flow of things unless we let go."

Sept. 4, 2010

[Pharo-project] glamorous theme :)

by Tudor Girba

Hi, Over the past week I worked on a new theme for Pharo called the Glamorous Theme :). The theme is developed in the context of the Glamour project, and its goal is to create a look that: - does not look like a specific operating system. In particular, the icons should be operating system agnostic, because, for example, people in Windows are confused by the red, yellow, green buttons of apple. - uses a limited amount of colors and effects. It is still work in progress, but you can get the current version by executing: Gofer new squeaksource: 'Glamour'; package: 'Glamour-Morphic-Theme'; load. GLMUITheme defaultSettings: nil. GLMUITheme beCurrent. GLMUITheme setPreferredWorldBackground. Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com "Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding."

Sept. 4, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Memory problems on Windows

by Jimmie Houchin

On 9/4/2010 2:28 PM, Andreas Raab wrote: > > There is indeed a hard limit of 512MB in the Windows VM currently in > effect, which is the result of debugging some extremely strange effects > when loading DLLs. What we found was that on some systems, under some > circumstances (related to memory load etc) DLLs would not be loaded if > we'd reserve more than 512MB of memory leading the application either to > not start at all, or to cause weird effects at later points etc. > > Cheers, > - Andreas Thanks Andreas for the explanation. When I re-read the 100 Million Objects thread, you mentioned that limit but I thought that you had removed it. Which may be why the 3.7.1 vm with the 3.8 image went up to 800+ mb of ram. But then it started acting strange. Unfortunately I have to interface with Windows COM libraries for business reasons. So currently Windows is required. Later I hope to upgrade to using the Java libraries which would release me from Windows and allow me to use Linux or OS X. Presently I am using Python to interface the COM libraries and then communicate with Squeak/Pharo via http. Since I know I have a hard limit, I'll quit trying to get it to work. :) Thanks again. Jimmie Houchin > On 9/4/2010 2:14 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >> You can also ask in VM mailing list. I cc'ed them. >> >> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 4:52 AM, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> Sorry for the delay in reply. For some reason the first time I >> looked at your message in my newsreader (Thunderbird/GMane) the >> message was in French and written to someone else. Apparently the >> software did something strange. >> >> To answer your question. Yes. I tried this in both the standard vm >> and the standard Pharo 1.1 image. >> >> I start the vm/image with -memory: 1000 >> and open a new Workspace, then copy the below memory settings and doit. >> I then do a := Array new: 100000000. >> >> That seemingly succeeds but only takes me up to a little below 500mb >> ram. If I attempt to do another array of another 100,000,000 >> objects, I get the Low Space error. >> >> With the standard vm and image, it just sits there consuming cpu >> with simply doing the array initialization. I am on a quad core >> server with 6gm ram and it has currently consumed over 36 cpu >> minutes of one of the cores. At this point I quit the image. I could >> do things in the UI but it is not very responsive. >> >> In the Cog vm/image, the array creation returns almost immediately >> and waits for other instructions. >> >> As I write this I have to go back to Squeak 3.7.1vm and either the >> 3.8 or 3.10 image, for it to be successful. Outside of that I can't >> get past 500mb of ram. This server generally sits at only using 30% >> of ram. >> >> For enterprise/business endeavors, I thing Pharo really needs to be >> able to use all the memory the OS will allow it. I know that it >> being a 32 bit app does create some limits on some OSes. But neither >> of my Vista machines imposes a limit that I can't live with at the >> moment. >> >> Thanks for your reply. I am neither a vm nor Smalltalk expert so I >> don't know how to proceed from here outside of reducing my >> applications memory needs by putting more into the database and only >> having the data in memory that is absolutely necessary for the >> analysis I am attempting. >> >> Jimmie >> >> >> On 9/1/2010 4:48 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >> do you have the same problem with the normal VM? >> >> On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:25 AM, Jimmie Houchin wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I am developing an application which processes and generates >> a large amount of data. In a recent attempt I encountered an >> Space is Low error. >> >> This is occurring in a Pharo 1.1 image using the latest >> Pharo and Cog VMs. I am opening the vm with the -memory: >> 1000 parameter. >> The below code I have applied the from the Squeak list from >> the 100 Million Objects thread. But the problem occurs at >> about 500mb of ram on a computer with 3 (or 6) gb of ram, >> with only 65% of physical ram in use. The os is Vista. >> >> Any help in using more memory, as much as necessary for the >> app, would be greatly appreciated. >> >> initializeMemorySettings >> "Initialize the memory and GC settings to be more in line >> with QF requirements" >> >> "The following settings affect the rate incremental GCs and >> tenuring" >> >> "Limit incremental GC activity to run every 40k allocations" >> SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 5 put: 40000. >> "allocations between GCs (default: 4000)" >> "Limit tenuring threshold to only tenure w/> 10k survivors" >> SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 6 put: 10000. >> "tenuring threshold (default: 2000)" >> >> "These settings affect overall memory usage" >> >> "Only give memory back to the OS when we have more than 16MB >> free" >> SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 24 put: >> 16*1024*1024. "default 8MB" >> "Try to keep 8MB headroom at all times" >> SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 25 put: 8*1024*1024. >> "default 4MB" >> "These settings describe what to do when we're close to >> running out of free space" >> >> "Tell the VM that we'd rather grow than spinning in tight GC >> loops" >> SmalltalkImage current gcBiasToGrow: true. "default: false" >> "Tell the VM to do a fullGC for good measure if the above >> growth exceeded 16MB" >> SmalltalkImage current gcBiasToGrowLimit: 16*1024*1024. >> "default: 0" >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jimmie Houchin >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> <mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> <mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >

Sept. 4, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] Re: Memory problems on Windows

by Andreas Raab

There is indeed a hard limit of 512MB in the Windows VM currently in effect, which is the result of debugging some extremely strange effects when loading DLLs. What we found was that on some systems, under some circumstances (related to memory load etc) DLLs would not be loaded if we'd reserve more than 512MB of memory leading the application either to not start at all, or to cause weird effects at later points etc. Cheers, - Andreas On 9/4/2010 2:14 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > > > You can also ask in VM mailing list. I cc'ed them. > > On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 4:52 AM, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com > <mailto:jlhouchin@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Hello, > > Sorry for the delay in reply. For some reason the first time I > looked at your message in my newsreader (Thunderbird/GMane) the > message was in French and written to someone else. Apparently the > software did something strange. > > To answer your question. Yes. I tried this in both the standard vm > and the standard Pharo 1.1 image. > > I start the vm/image with -memory: 1000 > and open a new Workspace, then copy the below memory settings and doit. > I then do a := Array new: 100000000. > > That seemingly succeeds but only takes me up to a little below 500mb > ram. If I attempt to do another array of another 100,000,000 > objects, I get the Low Space error. > > With the standard vm and image, it just sits there consuming cpu > with simply doing the array initialization. I am on a quad core > server with 6gm ram and it has currently consumed over 36 cpu > minutes of one of the cores. At this point I quit the image. I could > do things in the UI but it is not very responsive. > > In the Cog vm/image, the array creation returns almost immediately > and waits for other instructions. > > As I write this I have to go back to Squeak 3.7.1vm and either the > 3.8 or 3.10 image, for it to be successful. Outside of that I can't > get past 500mb of ram. This server generally sits at only using 30% > of ram. > > For enterprise/business endeavors, I thing Pharo really needs to be > able to use all the memory the OS will allow it. I know that it > being a 32 bit app does create some limits on some OSes. But neither > of my Vista machines imposes a limit that I can't live with at the > moment. > > Thanks for your reply. I am neither a vm nor Smalltalk expert so I > don't know how to proceed from here outside of reducing my > applications memory needs by putting more into the database and only > having the data in memory that is absolutely necessary for the > analysis I am attempting. > > Jimmie > > > On 9/1/2010 4:48 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > do you have the same problem with the normal VM? > > On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:25 AM, Jimmie Houchin wrote: > > Hello, > > I am developing an application which processes and generates > a large amount of data. In a recent attempt I encountered an > Space is Low error. > > This is occurring in a Pharo 1.1 image using the latest > Pharo and Cog VMs. I am opening the vm with the -memory: > 1000 parameter. > The below code I have applied the from the Squeak list from > the 100 Million Objects thread. But the problem occurs at > about 500mb of ram on a computer with 3 (or 6) gb of ram, > with only 65% of physical ram in use. The os is Vista. > > Any help in using more memory, as much as necessary for the > app, would be greatly appreciated. > > initializeMemorySettings > "Initialize the memory and GC settings to be more in line > with QF requirements" > > "The following settings affect the rate incremental GCs and > tenuring" > > "Limit incremental GC activity to run every 40k allocations" > SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 5 put: 40000. > "allocations between GCs (default: 4000)" > "Limit tenuring threshold to only tenure w/> 10k survivors" > SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 6 put: 10000. > "tenuring threshold (default: 2000)" > > "These settings affect overall memory usage" > > "Only give memory back to the OS when we have more than 16MB > free" > SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 24 put: > 16*1024*1024. "default 8MB" > "Try to keep 8MB headroom at all times" > SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 25 put: 8*1024*1024. > "default 4MB" > "These settings describe what to do when we're close to > running out of free space" > > "Tell the VM that we'd rather grow than spinning in tight GC > loops" > SmalltalkImage current gcBiasToGrow: true. "default: false" > "Tell the VM to do a fullGC for good measure if the above > growth exceeded 16MB" > SmalltalkImage current gcBiasToGrowLimit: 16*1024*1024. > "default: 0" > > Thanks, > > Jimmie Houchin > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > <mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > <mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >

Sept. 4, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Sockets in Pharo CollaborActive Book

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Noury, First, please don't assume that you have to change course just because we offered to help. If you are close to having a major improvement, then it might be best to just power through it. If there are things holding you up, we might be able to help there. Using Alien concerns me a little, as the last time I checked, it was not available on Linux?? Failure to support Linux would be a complete show-stopper for me. Regardless, I would like to see your code as I have read some comments suggesting that Alien is cumbersome to use; you might show me that all is well. My interest in Alien is primarily to support callbacks for numerical analysis. So far, I have been adding functions to a shared library, which is easy enough, ultimately translates formulas using C++ (which is better at it than Smalltalk), likely makes things go faster than they would with Smalltalk in the loop, but is far from elegant. Until Alien exists on Linux, it does not exist :( Back to sockets, if the current situation were to stand, for whatever reason, I would consider tackling the problem using a plugin to get OS threads, and use them to achieve the non-blocking operation that is essential for interactive software. In short, everything blocks its calling Smalltalk Process; nothing blocks the entire image. Hopefully you recognize that a server listening with timeouts is hideous design; just start and stop the server as needed, and it should be harmless to the image. If the server is not harmless to the image, it needs to be fixed. Clients having timeouts isn't much better. If you want to add helper methods with timeouts, who am I to tell others what to do, but we must not force timeouts on clients because there is no correct answer to how long something should wait, so we should not look for one. What we should do is make sure that we never block the entire image, and let people make their own decisions. Why would I consider a plugin? In large part because there are hints that I would find examples to follow, and because OpenSSL has a very cumbersome non-blocking interface, at least that was my impression of it. A plugin that I would write would hopefully support TCP and OpenSSL sockets, and hopefully IrDA. Running those things on OS threads and signaling semaphores in the image is likely to be simpler than working out the details of non-blocking calls in the separate worlds - I think. I can understand why you are not thrilled about creating a plugin. The sad part of this is that the current sockets system appears to demonstrate all of the essential pieces to make something that really works; it just hasn't been done. On attempting it, I would no doubt run across things that you found and led you to create a new system. Creating something new allows it to coexist with the current code until it is ready, at which point it could be integrated into Pharo. Thanks for working on it. Is the code on Squeaksource representative of your current progress? Please do not let my interest slow your efforts. If you are indeed doing all of the right things, it might be that my efforts should be directed toward getting Alien going on Linux. It might also be that I can be of most help simply by doing to your code what I did to DCOM long ago. Our network was a harsh landscape, and I got fairly good bringing code to its knees on intranets. This involves creating forked processes doing active communication across a hub that coincidentally gets unpowered w/o warning :) Threads must block or give errors, but the images must continue to be responsive and other threads must run as expected. Until we reliably pass that test, this is all just a game. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Noury Bouraqadi [bouraqadi(a)gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 5:31 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Sockets in Pharo CollaborActive Book Hi Bill, On 1 sept. 2010, at 05:59, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > The deeper question is whether we want to document how things are, or they they *should be* - which is VERY much different from the eventless and timeout ridden design that we have now. It desperately needs to be redesigned. > I agree that the current status of the networking libraries is horrible. But, to learn the current status and think of the alternatives, I felt the need to understand how thinks work now. As StÃ©f said, Luc and I started the Ocean project. Thanks you Bill and to Guille for your proposal to help. It's a pitty that you don't attend to the ESUG conf (Your names are not on the registrations list) otherwise we could discuss this better. Cause Luc and I will give a short presentation describing the current status of Ocean and where it is headed. Now, we need to think how to split the project in order to have other contributions. Note BTW, our goal is to have a low-level Pharo wrappers of the networking facilities of the OS. We started using Alien to avoid using a plugin and ease portability. Once we get this low-level layer, we'll go on and use it in an OOP middleware like rST and UbiquiTalk. Which is after all, the right level to work with since we want to deal with objects and message sends. A direct use of Sockets isn't really OO most of the time. Noury _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 4, 2010