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Re: [Pharo-project] About open lively community vs a closed, withdrawn group of programmers

by Igor Stasenko

On 29 September 2010 23:36, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> Through Laurent Laffont's tweet 7:47 PM Sep 23rd >>> Worth the read: "Leaving .net" >>> http://whatupdave.tumblr.com/post/1170718843/leaving-net >> >> This reminds me myself, before i joined wonderful smalltalk community :) > > Sorry to be a pain in the back but when I see our current state of practices > at the level of continuous integration as a community (not talking just about pharo/squeak) we are not that great. > It will change but we took years to backlog. > Something sad for me was to see that in VW been agile was just having the XProgramming/TestCase > class (I know that they know what I think :)). Been agile means a lot more. > Autotest, hudson, better tools, better debugger, code coverage..... this is what we need. > No, but we are working together towards improving our system. This is what you can't have in .net and/or java where community don't have a chance to participate in development process, but have to wait till vendor release new version, and then start using it. > Stef > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Sept. 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] How to subclass Process and have it used by spawned blocks?

by Stefan Marr

Yes, had a look at http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=2818 There are a lot todos but nothing which sounds like it is related to my symptoms. However, since the bytecode is equal to what Squeak 4.2 produces and where it works, I would guess, that the compiler is not the problem. Best regards Stefan On 29 Sep 2010, at 22:32, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Stefan the first link I sent was wrong (obviously) did you check the second? > > Stef > > On Sep 29, 2010, at 9:55 PM, Stefan Marr wrote: > >> Stef, I had a look at the description of these fixes, but it does not look like there is something related in it. >> >> Eliot, the requested output is below. >> But as far as I can see, it is identical. Have verified it also in the Squeak 4.1 image, all three produce the same bytecode. >> >> Perhaps it not the compiler directly but some closure related code? >> >> Thanks >> Stefan >> >> >> >> Pharo 1.1: (Erlang class>>#spawn:) abstractSymbolic >> >> '<primitive: 19> >> pushLit: Process >> pushTemp: 0 >> closureNumCopied: 1 numArgs: 0 bytes 51 to 59 >> pushConstant: 1 >> send: #halt (0 args) >> pop >> pushTemp: 0 >> send: #value (0 args) >> pop >> pushLit: Processor >> send: #terminateActive (0 args) >> blockReturn >> send: #asContext (0 args) >> pushLit: Processor >> send: #activePriority (0 args) >> send: #forContext:priority: (2 args) >> popIntoTemp: 1 >> pushTemp: 1 >> send: #resume (0 args) >> pop >> pushTemp: 1 >> returnTop >> ' >> >> Pharo 1.1: (Erlang class>>#spawn:) symbolic. >> '<primitive: 19> >> 45 <41> pushLit: Process >> 46 <10> pushTemp: 0 >> 47 <8F 10 00 09> closureNumCopied: 1 numArgs: 0 bytes 51 to 59 >> 51 <76> pushConstant: 1 >> 52 <D3> send: halt >> 53 <87> pop >> 54 <10> pushTemp: 0 >> 55 <C9> send: value >> 56 <87> pop >> 57 <45> pushLit: Processor >> 58 <D4> send: terminateActive >> 59 <7D> blockReturn >> 60 <D2> send: asContext >> 61 <45> pushLit: Processor >> 62 <D6> send: activePriority >> 63 <F0> send: forContext:priority: >> 64 <69> popIntoTemp: 1 >> 65 <11> pushTemp: 1 >> 66 <D7> send: resume >> 67 <87> pop >> 68 <11> pushTemp: 1 >> 69 <7C> returnTop >> ' >> >> Squeak 4.2: (Erlang class>>#spawn:) abstractSymbolic. >> '<primitive: 19> >> pushLit: Process >> pushTemp: 0 >> closureNumCopied: 1 numArgs: 0 bytes 51 to 59 >> pushConstant: 1 >> send: #halt (0 args) >> pop >> pushTemp: 0 >> send: #value (0 args) >> pop >> pushLit: Processor >> send: #terminateActive (0 args) >> blockReturn >> send: #asContext (0 args) >> pushLit: Processor >> send: #activePriority (0 args) >> send: #forContext:priority: (2 args) >> popIntoTemp: 1 >> pushTemp: 1 >> send: #resume (0 args) >> pop >> pushTemp: 1 >> returnTop >> ' >> >> Squeak 4.2: (Erlang class>>#spawn:) symbolic. >> >> '<primitive: 19> >> 45 <41> pushLit: Process >> 46 <10> pushTemp: 0 >> 47 <8F 10 00 09> closureNumCopied: 1 numArgs: 0 bytes 51 to 59 >> 51 <76> pushConstant: 1 >> 52 <D3> send: halt >> 53 <87> pop >> 54 <10> pushTemp: 0 >> 55 <C9> send: value >> 56 <87> pop >> 57 <45> pushLit: Processor >> 58 <D4> send: terminateActive >> 59 <7D> blockReturn >> 60 <D2> send: asContext >> 61 <45> pushLit: Processor >> 62 <D6> send: activePriority >> 63 <F0> send: forContext:priority: >> 64 <69> popIntoTemp: 1 >> 65 <11> pushTemp: 1 >> 66 <D7> send: resume >> 67 <87> pop >> 68 <11> pushTemp: 1 >> 69 <7C> returnTop >> ' >> >> >> On 29 Sep 2010, at 20:29, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >>> and http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?cursor=2818 >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>>>> spawn: aBlock >>>>> "Answer an ErlProcess running the code given in the parameter. The process isscheduled." >>>>> | proc | >>>>> <primitive: 19> "Simulation guard" >>>>> proc := Process >>>>> forContext: >>>>> [1 halt. aBlock value. >>>>> Processor terminateActive] asContext >>>>> priority: Processor activePriority. >>>>> proc resume. >>>>> ^ proc >> >> >> -- >> Stefan Marr >> Software Languages Lab >> Vrije Universiteit Brussel >> Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium >> http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr >> Phone: +32 2 629 2974 >> Fax: +32 2 629 3525 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Stefan Marr Software Languages Lab Vrije Universiteit Brussel Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr Phone: +32 2 629 2974 Fax: +32 2 629 3525

Sept. 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] About open lively community vs a closed, withdrawn group of programmers

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> Through Laurent Laffont's tweet 7:47 PM Sep 23rd >> Worth the read: "Leaving .net" >> http://whatupdave.tumblr.com/post/1170718843/leaving-net > > This reminds me myself, before i joined wonderful smalltalk community :) Sorry to be a pain in the back but when I see our current state of practices at the level of continuous integration as a community (not talking just about pharo/squeak) we are not that great. It will change but we took years to backlog. Something sad for me was to see that in VW been agile was just having the XProgramming/TestCase class (I know that they know what I think :)). Been agile means a lot more. Autotest, hudson, better tools, better debugger, code coverage..... this is what we need. Stef

Sept. 29, 2010

[Pharo-project] OB Dev in Metacello

by Diogenes Moreira

hi folks: anybody could tell how load the OB Dev Tools with Metacello. Thank in Advance..

Sept. 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] How to subclass Process and have it used by spawned blocks?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Stefan the first link I sent was wrong (obviously) did you check the second? Stef On Sep 29, 2010, at 9:55 PM, Stefan Marr wrote: > Stef, I had a look at the description of these fixes, but it does not look like there is something related in it. > > Eliot, the requested output is below. > But as far as I can see, it is identical. Have verified it also in the Squeak 4.1 image, all three produce the same bytecode. > > Perhaps it not the compiler directly but some closure related code? > > Thanks > Stefan > > > > Pharo 1.1: (Erlang class>>#spawn:) abstractSymbolic > > '<primitive: 19> > pushLit: Process > pushTemp: 0 > closureNumCopied: 1 numArgs: 0 bytes 51 to 59 > pushConstant: 1 > send: #halt (0 args) > pop > pushTemp: 0 > send: #value (0 args) > pop > pushLit: Processor > send: #terminateActive (0 args) > blockReturn > send: #asContext (0 args) > pushLit: Processor > send: #activePriority (0 args) > send: #forContext:priority: (2 args) > popIntoTemp: 1 > pushTemp: 1 > send: #resume (0 args) > pop > pushTemp: 1 > returnTop > ' > > Pharo 1.1: (Erlang class>>#spawn:) symbolic. > '<primitive: 19> > 45 <41> pushLit: Process > 46 <10> pushTemp: 0 > 47 <8F 10 00 09> closureNumCopied: 1 numArgs: 0 bytes 51 to 59 > 51 <76> pushConstant: 1 > 52 <D3> send: halt > 53 <87> pop > 54 <10> pushTemp: 0 > 55 <C9> send: value > 56 <87> pop > 57 <45> pushLit: Processor > 58 <D4> send: terminateActive > 59 <7D> blockReturn > 60 <D2> send: asContext > 61 <45> pushLit: Processor > 62 <D6> send: activePriority > 63 <F0> send: forContext:priority: > 64 <69> popIntoTemp: 1 > 65 <11> pushTemp: 1 > 66 <D7> send: resume > 67 <87> pop > 68 <11> pushTemp: 1 > 69 <7C> returnTop > ' > > Squeak 4.2: (Erlang class>>#spawn:) abstractSymbolic. > '<primitive: 19> > pushLit: Process > pushTemp: 0 > closureNumCopied: 1 numArgs: 0 bytes 51 to 59 > pushConstant: 1 > send: #halt (0 args) > pop > pushTemp: 0 > send: #value (0 args) > pop > pushLit: Processor > send: #terminateActive (0 args) > blockReturn > send: #asContext (0 args) > pushLit: Processor > send: #activePriority (0 args) > send: #forContext:priority: (2 args) > popIntoTemp: 1 > pushTemp: 1 > send: #resume (0 args) > pop > pushTemp: 1 > returnTop > ' > > Squeak 4.2: (Erlang class>>#spawn:) symbolic. > > '<primitive: 19> > 45 <41> pushLit: Process > 46 <10> pushTemp: 0 > 47 <8F 10 00 09> closureNumCopied: 1 numArgs: 0 bytes 51 to 59 > 51 <76> pushConstant: 1 > 52 <D3> send: halt > 53 <87> pop > 54 <10> pushTemp: 0 > 55 <C9> send: value > 56 <87> pop > 57 <45> pushLit: Processor > 58 <D4> send: terminateActive > 59 <7D> blockReturn > 60 <D2> send: asContext > 61 <45> pushLit: Processor > 62 <D6> send: activePriority > 63 <F0> send: forContext:priority: > 64 <69> popIntoTemp: 1 > 65 <11> pushTemp: 1 > 66 <D7> send: resume > 67 <87> pop > 68 <11> pushTemp: 1 > 69 <7C> returnTop > ' > > > On 29 Sep 2010, at 20:29, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> and http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?cursor=2818 >> >> Stef >> >> >>>> spawn: aBlock >>>> "Answer an ErlProcess running the code given in the parameter. The process isscheduled." >>>> | proc | >>>> <primitive: 19> "Simulation guard" >>>> proc := Process >>>> forContext: >>>> [1 halt. aBlock value. >>>> Processor terminateActive] asContext >>>> priority: Processor activePriority. >>>> proc resume. >>>> ^ proc > > > -- > Stefan Marr > Software Languages Lab > Vrije Universiteit Brussel > Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium > http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr > Phone: +32 2 629 2974 > Fax: +32 2 629 3525 > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] About open lively community vs a closed, withdrawn group of programmers

by Igor Stasenko

2010/9/29 Simon Denier <Simon.Denier(a)inria.fr>: > > Through Laurent Laffont's tweetÂ 7:47 PM Sep 23rd > Worth the read: "Leaving .net" > http://whatupdave.tumblr.com/post/1170718843/leaving-net This reminds me myself, before i joined wonderful smalltalk community :) > -- > Â Simon > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Sept. 29, 2010

[Pharo-project] Metacello loading default (was: Updating the Alien Squeaksource page)

by Damien Pollet

2010/9/29 Fernando olivero <fernando.olivero(a)usi.ch>: > Then evaluate the following to get the default installation > (Smalltalk globals classNamed: 'ConfigurationOfAlien') > perform:#loadLatestVersion. I saw that many recent Metacello configurations now define ConfigurationOfWhatever loadDefault. It would be nice to switch to that idiom, and maybe make a campaign of updating existing configurations, while there are still not so many of themâ¦ -- Damien Pollet type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet

Sept. 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] image crash when saving a method

by Damien Pollet

On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 21:15, Henrik Sperre Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: > Â On 29.09.2010 20:54, Damien Pollet wrote: >> >> I have an image that reliably crashes the VM whenever I save a method >> in a particular class. >> >> I tried opening a different browser, saving an empty method, restoring >> the method from changesâ¦ crash, and no PharoDebug.log >> It seems I can still modify other classes. >> >> This is the 1.1.1 image (#11414) with a few packages (PetitParser, >> Filesystem, Autotest) on John's 5.8b10 VM. >> >> What to do ? > > For the last time, Autotest uses Objects as Methods. > Cog VMs until recently crash when you use that. > 5.8b10 is one of those. > > So if the method you edit would trigger a test, the image will crash. OK, I closed the autotest window, and could save my method (which was indeed a unit test). -- Damien Pollet type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet

Sept. 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] How to subclass Process and have it used by spawned blocks?

by Stefan Marr

Stef, I had a look at the description of these fixes, but it does not look like there is something related in it. Eliot, the requested output is below. But as far as I can see, it is identical. Have verified it also in the Squeak 4.1 image, all three produce the same bytecode. Perhaps it not the compiler directly but some closure related code? Thanks Stefan Pharo 1.1: (Erlang class>>#spawn:) abstractSymbolic '<primitive: 19> pushLit: Process pushTemp: 0 closureNumCopied: 1 numArgs: 0 bytes 51 to 59 pushConstant: 1 send: #halt (0 args) pop pushTemp: 0 send: #value (0 args) pop pushLit: Processor send: #terminateActive (0 args) blockReturn send: #asContext (0 args) pushLit: Processor send: #activePriority (0 args) send: #forContext:priority: (2 args) popIntoTemp: 1 pushTemp: 1 send: #resume (0 args) pop pushTemp: 1 returnTop ' Pharo 1.1: (Erlang class>>#spawn:) symbolic. '<primitive: 19> 45 <41> pushLit: Process 46 <10> pushTemp: 0 47 <8F 10 00 09> closureNumCopied: 1 numArgs: 0 bytes 51 to 59 51 <76> pushConstant: 1 52 <D3> send: halt 53 <87> pop 54 <10> pushTemp: 0 55 <C9> send: value 56 <87> pop 57 <45> pushLit: Processor 58 <D4> send: terminateActive 59 <7D> blockReturn 60 <D2> send: asContext 61 <45> pushLit: Processor 62 <D6> send: activePriority 63 <F0> send: forContext:priority: 64 <69> popIntoTemp: 1 65 <11> pushTemp: 1 66 <D7> send: resume 67 <87> pop 68 <11> pushTemp: 1 69 <7C> returnTop ' Squeak 4.2: (Erlang class>>#spawn:) abstractSymbolic. '<primitive: 19> pushLit: Process pushTemp: 0 closureNumCopied: 1 numArgs: 0 bytes 51 to 59 pushConstant: 1 send: #halt (0 args) pop pushTemp: 0 send: #value (0 args) pop pushLit: Processor send: #terminateActive (0 args) blockReturn send: #asContext (0 args) pushLit: Processor send: #activePriority (0 args) send: #forContext:priority: (2 args) popIntoTemp: 1 pushTemp: 1 send: #resume (0 args) pop pushTemp: 1 returnTop ' Squeak 4.2: (Erlang class>>#spawn:) symbolic. '<primitive: 19> 45 <41> pushLit: Process 46 <10> pushTemp: 0 47 <8F 10 00 09> closureNumCopied: 1 numArgs: 0 bytes 51 to 59 51 <76> pushConstant: 1 52 <D3> send: halt 53 <87> pop 54 <10> pushTemp: 0 55 <C9> send: value 56 <87> pop 57 <45> pushLit: Processor 58 <D4> send: terminateActive 59 <7D> blockReturn 60 <D2> send: asContext 61 <45> pushLit: Processor 62 <D6> send: activePriority 63 <F0> send: forContext:priority: 64 <69> popIntoTemp: 1 65 <11> pushTemp: 1 66 <D7> send: resume 67 <87> pop 68 <11> pushTemp: 1 69 <7C> returnTop ' On 29 Sep 2010, at 20:29, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > and http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?cursor=2818 > > Stef > > >>> spawn: aBlock >>> "Answer an ErlProcess running the code given in the parameter. The process isscheduled." >>> | proc | >>> <primitive: 19> "Simulation guard" >>> proc := Process >>> forContext: >>> [1 halt. aBlock value. >>> Processor terminateActive] asContext >>> priority: Processor activePriority. >>> proc resume. >>> ^ proc -- Stefan Marr Software Languages Lab Vrije Universiteit Brussel Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr Phone: +32 2 629 2974 Fax: +32 2 629 3525

Sept. 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Alien Plugin for Linux

by Henrik Sperre Johansen

On 29.09.2010 20:11, Nicolas Cellier wrote: > 2010/9/29 Marcus Denker<marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: >> On Sep 29, 2010, at 6:49 PM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: >> >>> 2010/9/29 Henrik Johansen<henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no>: >>>> Uhm, this method (and many others in the extensions-category) have been present in their expected-by-Alien form in Pharo since at least 1.0 >>>> >>>> Probably a better idea to separate the Alien-"Core" into two packages, one which is actually needed, and one which you only need to load in really old Squeak/Cuis images in order to have it work. >>>> In which case you probably won't have method trailers either, and generate: #(0 0 0 0) is the proper extension. >>>> >>> CompiledMethodTrailers default or mysterious #(0 0 0 0) codes both are >>> mostly unnecessary. >>> If I want default behaviour, why should I bother to tell what this >>> default is exactly ? >>> Let just call #generate, and obfuscate those details. >>> Squeak Pharo Cuis will handle these better than us (didn't verify >>> Cuis, but quite sure Squeak/Pharo already implement generate). >>> >> I added #generate in 3.9 and refactored everything to use it. But the closure code un-did a lot of >> these as it was coming from an older version (3.7 or 3.8 was the basis of Croquet, I think). >> >> Marcus >> > Thank you Marcus, > A bit like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus, let just redo. > > Nicolas Yeah, my point was that Pharo 1.0, Pharo 1.1, Squeak 4.1, and Squeak 4.2 all contain proper versions of MethodNode>>generate. If it existed in 3.9 as well, it would probably only be needed in the scenario that you want to use Alien in 3.8 or earlier. Thus the override should be moved to an optional 3.8 package, or simply removed, as few VMs that will run 3.8 actually contains/support the Alien plugin. (it required specific changes to the core VM iirc) Simply updating the override of the method as included in Alien-Core, to reflect the method trailer changes done between Squeak 4.0 and 4.1, and Pharo 1.0 and 1.1, as Fernando did, would definetely be the wrong solution, at least in my eyes. Cheers, Henry

Sept. 29, 2010