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Re: [Pharo-project] WebBrowser

by Alexander LazareviÄ

2010/10/8 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: > The nice thing is: we can put things back, easily. I think it's better > to remove and put back than to never change anything because > someone might need it. True. I guess there is no benefit other than for backwards compatibility to keep WebBrowser around. In Pharo 1.2 web links don't use WebBrowser anymore and so even a registered ExternalWebBrowser will not be used. I think there is a UI testing framework that uses ExternalWebBrowser, but I doubt that this uses the indirection via the WebBrowser registry. Anyway, I changed the latest version of ExternalWebBrowser, so that it checks if there is a WebBrowser registry present before trying to register itself. Works in Squeak 4.2a and Pharo1.2 . Alex

Oct. 8, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] WebBrowser

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

exactly probably adding a nice class comment could help a lot. Stef On Oct 8, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Marcus Denker wrote: > > On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Alexander LazareviÄ wrote: > >> 2010/10/7 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de>: >>> Dont know why this specific subclass was removed since >>> other subclasses of AppRegistry are still in the image >>> (like MailSender, SoundService, ...) >>> >>> Was it by accident or if not what is the idea here. >> >> It got nuked with >> >> Name: System-Applications-StephaneDucasse.18 >> Author: StephaneDucasse >> Time: 11 July 2010, 6:52:54 pm >> UUID: 7eb6ce52-4ac4-4523-b44f-eaf822506c76 >> Ancestors: System-Applications-StephaneDucasse.14 >> >> - Issue 2664: empty classes: WebBrowser, SketchMorph, >> PasteUpMorphTest, NameOfSubclass, MethodTempsNode >> > > I think I removed it because I removed the code for browsing... > with the idea that I am sure nobody needs Scamper these days. > But I forgot the external webBrowser stuff. > > The nice thing is: we can put things back, easily. I think it's better > to remove and put back than to never change anything because > someone might need it. > > Marcus > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 8, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] WebBrowser

by Marcus Denker

On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Alexander LazareviÄ wrote: > 2010/10/7 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de>: >> Dont know why this specific subclass was removed since >> other subclasses of AppRegistry are still in the image >> (like MailSender, SoundService, ...) >> >> Was it by accident or if not what is the idea here. > > It got nuked with > > Name: System-Applications-StephaneDucasse.18 > Author: StephaneDucasse > Time: 11 July 2010, 6:52:54 pm > UUID: 7eb6ce52-4ac4-4523-b44f-eaf822506c76 > Ancestors: System-Applications-StephaneDucasse.14 > > - Issue 2664: empty classes: WebBrowser, SketchMorph, > PasteUpMorphTest, NameOfSubclass, MethodTempsNode > I think I removed it because I removed the code for browsing... with the idea that I am sure nobody needs Scamper these days. But I forgot the external webBrowser stuff. The nice thing is: we can put things back, easily. I think it's better to remove and put back than to never change anything because someone might need it. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

Oct. 8, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] WebBrowser

by Marcus Denker

On Oct 8, 2010, at 3:36 AM, Levente Uzonyi wrote: > On Thu, 7 Oct 2010, Alexander LazareviÄ wrote: > >> 2010/10/7 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de>: >>> Dont know why this specific subclass was removed since >>> other subclasses of AppRegistry are still in the image >>> (like MailSender, SoundService, ...) >>> >>> Was it by accident or if not what is the idea here. >> >> It got nuked with >> >> Name: System-Applications-StephaneDucasse.18 >> Author: StephaneDucasse >> Time: 11 July 2010, 6:52:54 pm >> UUID: 7eb6ce52-4ac4-4523-b44f-eaf822506c76 >> Ancestors: System-Applications-StephaneDucasse.14 >> >> - Issue 2664: empty classes: WebBrowser, SketchMorph, >> PasteUpMorphTest, NameOfSubclass, MethodTempsNode > > Why did you remove NameOfSubclass? > It was part of the compiler tests, but there are no users (at least I am too dumb to find them). -> empty class -> no References -> Not even in the source -> In a tests package -> Running the tests does not seem to re-create the class (else in addition, tearDown code would be needed) Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

Oct. 8, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] XTream was Re: Re: Ocean (was Re: Less plugins, more Smalltalk code!)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I do not know. ;) I need time and concentration to give aware feedback Stef On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Stef, > > Do you have any interest in my alternate protocol idea? In short, #next is misleading even on VW. When I learned that, I pretty much gave up on a robust implementation and did the logical thing: made the alternate selectors and started writing all of my new code in terms of them. It is a lot quicker to type a few extra characters than to spend a lot of time chasing down side effects rather than original errors. By simply making new code work better, the backward compatibility problem largely evaporates. It's a shame that perfectly good selectors #next and #next: are usurped, but that's how it is unless we want to break a lot of old code. > > One interesting observation (not mine) is that many #next and #next: senders in the image are vulnerable to defects if they get other than expected results. Robust semantics would break some things, but call attention to lurking bugs elsewhere. > > I will happily make the alternate selector code available if you want it; in fact, an old version is in the in box. In the past, you expressed concerns about getting exhaustion errors when you don't want them. My answer is that #nextAvailable: exists for that purpose - it "authorizes" truncation. You can also add a #nextOrNil if you must (I might even have it for benefit of some of my older code). In Pharo, #nextOrNil is trivial: just delegate to #next. > > Bill > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 4:25 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] XTream was Re: Re: Ocean (was Re: Less plugins, more Smalltalk code!) > > Thanks nicolas > Indeed we would love to have a clean covered with test composable stream hierarchy > the idea behind nile was to make it compatible, integrate it and then clean but may be we should have done > otherwise. > > It would be good to have a path to get streams cleaned, but my time is counted. > > Stef > On Oct 7, 2010, at 9:41 PM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: > >> Yes, every time I must warn and apologize because I'm guilty of >> hijacking the name. >> The goals are more or less the same, because I also hijacked some >> ideas (though not all invented at VW): >> - separate read/write stream >> - use stream wrappers >> - implement main sequenceable collection API >> (more to be found at http://www.squeaksource.com/XTream.html wiki page) >> >> There are also Squeak specific goals: >> - clean the mess by first principles (just an excerpt >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2009-December/141786… >> ) >> - accelerate MultiByteFileStream >> >> At time Squeak Xtream started, there was no license for VW Xtream, so >> it's a full rewrite from scratch. >> Thus implementation differs. Mainly I did not reify the Buffer (the >> master piece of original VW Xtream). >> Due to this, I've got a BufferedReadWriteStream, which is >> contradictory to goal 1). >> It might change in future. >> I also do not want to depend too much on Exception handling, which >> current VW Buffer implementation does. >> >> Also, I did not replace the whole protocol, but rather reused existing one. >> That's because further goal is to provide a replacement for Squeak >> Streams (could apply to Pharo too, but there's a possible overlap with >> Nile* See note below). >> However, I currently made no plan to reach this goal. I just have some >> toy images that I break regularly due to lack of compatibility... >> Either I implement all the messy protocol that flourished in Squeak, >> or I try to stay a bit cleaner but with uncompatibilities... >> Maybe a separate compatibility package with a deprecation policy might help... >> >> Be aware that recent Squeak and Pharo acceleration thanks to buffering >> was first experimented in Squeak Xtream, and then ported by talents of >> Levente, that's already a little reward. >> Some big acceleration could be gained other UTF8 streams when a >> majority of characters are ASCII (the case of source code management >> and most latin characters texts), both in cog and traditional vm. >> My current tests (cog) are: >> >> { >> [| tmp | tmp := (MultiByteFileStream readOnlyFileNamed: (SourceFiles >> at: 2) name) ascii; wantsLineEndConversion: false; converter: >> UTF8TextConverter new. >> 1 to: 20000 do: [:i | tmp upTo: Character cr]. tmp close] timeToRun. >> [| tmp | tmp := ((StandardFileStream readOnlyFileNamed: (SourceFiles >> at: 2) name) readXtream binary buffered ~> UTF8Decoder) buffered. >> 1 to: 20000 do: [:i | tmp upTo: Character cr]. tmp close] timeToRun. >> } >> #(163 21) >> >> So, Xtream is around 8x faster at reading first 20000 lines of change >> log... No surprise it's more than 99% pure ASCII. >> >> Last, concerning the errors, it's more a matter of fixing the tests >> themselves... >> They use #squeakToUtf8 as a reference, and some tests are for other >> unloaded XTream packages. >> I started to change the test last night but did not publish all... >> >> See also: >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2010-September/15357… >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2009-December/141539… >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2009-December/141647… >> and more mails in november/december 2009 >> >> more dated material http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6755 >> and various attempts like LazyStream/LazyCollections... >> >> Nicolas >> >> * Note about Nile: >> Nile has a different approach: do not eliminate ReadWriteStreams, but >> compose with traits. >> Nile also has high test coverage level, which is good. >> Nile was designed as a Stream replacement for Squeak Stream... >> As such, it carries some cruft (same dilemna as Squeak Xtream). >> Pharo goal is to perform major clean-up. As a mean to reach this goal, >> it shall not encumber with backward compatibility. This means that >> once Nile adopted (with historical compatibility cruft), it should be >> cleaned up again... >> >> 2010/10/7 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>> pay attention that there are two xtreams package frameworks from what I understand >>> >>> one presented at esug and one developed by nicolas >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On Oct 7, 2010, at 4:58 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On 06 Oct 2010, at 08:48, Nicolas Cellier wrote: >>>> >>>>> See also hijacked http://www.squeaksource.com/XTream.html borrowing >>>>> some of the ideas, but somehow less extreme. >>>>> Most packages should now load in Pharo. >>>> >>>> Hi Nicolas, >>>> >>>> I have been looking at the ESUG 2010 slides & google code project pages of xstreams and I must say that I like this very much. >>>> >>>> Your code on SS does indeed load in Pharo 1.1. 8 tests fail out of 37 with errors that I think are probably fixable. I am browsing it now. >>>> >>>> Now my question is, first, do you have some write up somewhere explaining what you did and why, and second, what is the current state of your project and what are your future plans/goals ? >>>> >>>> Thx, >>>> >>>> Sven >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 8, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] XMLRPC Project - Progress Report

by Lawson English

On 10/4/10 6:24 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > [...] > There is still some technical work to do, but the most important thing is that we need as much users as possible to shake out the bugs. The code has to prove itself for others (with different encodings/languages/networks). > here's a challenge: http://www.morphle.org:8502/pier/samplepage That's genuine Second Life login xmlrpc with invalid password. Lawson

Oct. 8, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] WebBrowser

by Levente Uzonyi

On Thu, 7 Oct 2010, Alexander LazareviÄ wrote: > 2010/10/7 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de>: >> Dont know why this specific subclass was removed since >> other subclasses of AppRegistry are still in the image >> (like MailSender, SoundService, ...) >> >> Was it by accident or if not what is the idea here. > > It got nuked with > > Name: System-Applications-StephaneDucasse.18 > Author: StephaneDucasse > Time: 11 July 2010, 6:52:54 pm > UUID: 7eb6ce52-4ac4-4523-b44f-eaf822506c76 > Ancestors: System-Applications-StephaneDucasse.14 > > - Issue 2664: empty classes: WebBrowser, SketchMorph, > PasteUpMorphTest, NameOfSubclass, MethodTempsNode Why did you remove NameOfSubclass? Levente > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Oct. 8, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] XTream was Re: Re: Ocean (was Re: Less plugins, more Smalltalk code!)

by Nicolas Cellier

2010/10/8 Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com>: > 2010/10/8 Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com>: >> 2010/10/8 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com>: > snip... >> >> Buffering could be automated at FSReadXtream creation. >> The utf8 decoder should also be buffered, but it's just a matter of >> creating a nice shortCut for composition, maybe simply >> >> 'aaa.txt' asFile readXtream gunzip utf8. >> > > Oops I forgot the .gz extension: > > 'aaa.txt.gz' asFile readXtream gunzip utf8. > > Nicolas > Oh, and VW features are more rich than reach... Time to sleep. Bye

Oct. 8, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] XTream was Re: Re: Ocean (was Re: Less plugins, more Smalltalk code!)

by Nicolas Cellier

2010/10/8 Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com>: > 2010/10/8 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com>: snip... > > Buffering could be automated at FSReadXtream creation. > The utf8 decoder should also be buffered, but it's just a matter of > creating a nice shortCut for composition, maybe simply > > 'aaa.txt' asFile readXtream gunzip utf8. > Oops I forgot the .gz extension: 'aaa.txt.gz' asFile readXtream gunzip utf8. Nicolas

Oct. 8, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] XTream was Re: Re: Ocean (was Re: Less plugins, more Smalltalk code!)

by Nicolas Cellier

2010/10/8 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com>: > Nicolas, > the design of your version lacks composability. > Also, i seriously think that read and write streams should not be > married under same class. > This could be a paradigm shift for many people, but not for me, since > i dealt with real-time > network communications in the past and can say that network > communication based on bidirectional data flow > really sucks, because it doesn't scale.. and don't works for more than > 2 peers :) > I don't see what is not composable. Squeak Xtream is made exclusively of Xtream wrappers, except some terminal CollectionReadXtream and future IOHandleReadXtream (not yet existing see below). Track how the source/destination ivar are defined/used : most exclusively of other Xtreams. Also check the messages ~> and <~ for composition. I started using Stream wrappers in the 90s for my own applications, that's not a new idea. > By its nature, data flow is unidirectional. Trying to unify things and > present it as a bidirectional > leads to bad code, bad usage patterns (see RemoteString) and > endless discussions around 'do we need a multiple inheritance or not'. > Agree. I have mostly separated ReadXtream and WriteXtream with one exception, the so called BufferedReadWriteXtream. This class was a quick hack and is not satisfying me. In Squeak, there is one major user of ReadWriteStream: the change log, so I needed this quick hack. We can for sure decompose it in two streams, one for read, one for write, code will be a lot cleaner. But beware, the two streams will have to share a common state, and implementation is not straightforward. If you look at VW implementation, you will see this kind of object is a (shared) Buffer and the implementation is quite involved... But if you want to help with this one, you're welcome. > If i want to read from stream, i can do it like following: > > file := 'foo.txt' asFile. > > reader := file readXStream. > reader next > > if i want to write something, i do > > writer := file writeXStream. > writer nextPut: $x. > > and if i need to read & write both, then i probably should tell writer > and reader > to share same state, like file handle, cache, buffers etc, but not to > be the same object. > so, if i need to write, i should use writer, and if i need to read - i > should use reader.. > > Concerning composability, this is a cornerstone of VW XTreams implementation. > And after watching their presentation at ESUG, i can say that your > implementation completely miss the point (sorry). > Seeing how simple i can build complex parser(s) by composing multiple > low-level parsers > in PetitParser, nobody can convince me, that its a bad idea for streams. > > Why i can't simply do: > > reader := 'aaa.txt' asFile readXStream. > utf8Reader := UTF8Reader on: reader. > ? > 1) asFile does not exist yet because I thought it would be much better to conect to FileSystem http://www.wiresong.ca/downloads/Filesystem-1.0.0.sar rather than doing yet another one... 2) in the meantime, use an old StandardFileStream (yes I know, not sexy) 3) compose with message <~ for write and ~> for read By now your example shall be translated as (StandardFileStream readOnlyFileNamed: 'aaa.txt') readXtream buffered ~> UTF8Decoder. Buffering could be automated at FSReadXtream creation. The utf8 decoder should also be buffered, but it's just a matter of creating a nice shortCut for composition, maybe simply 'aaa.txt' asFile readXtream gunzip utf8. Instead of #on:, I implemented #onStream: for readXtream wrappers and #toStream: for writeXtream wrappers. I concede current implementation is weak because those two messages are duplicated... But it's just a matter of gathering the transformers under a generic subclass as you proposed in Xtream-Wrappers Hope it helps, or maybe there are really neat things I missed ? VW Xtream is really a master piece, reach features, certainly many hours of development. Squeak Xtream is a few hours proof of concept. I invite you and every one interested to complete the work. Beside, VW Xtream is now MIT, so it's easy to pick any code and unify if there's a will in this community. Nicolas > > On 8 October 2010 00:51, Nicolas Cellier > <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> 2010/10/7 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>> pay attention that there are two xtreams package frameworks from what I understand >>> >>> Â Â Â Â one presented at esug and one developed by nicolas >>> >>> Stef >>> >> >> Now, I wonder if I should not rename it SqueaXtream or something - >> apologize for not being Pharo-tically correct ;) >> >> Nicolas >> >>> On Oct 7, 2010, at 4:58 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On 06 Oct 2010, at 08:48, Nicolas Cellier wrote: >>>> >>>>> See also hijacked Â http://www.squeaksource.com/XTream.html borrowing >>>>> some of the ideas, but somehow less extreme. >>>>> Most packages should now load in Pharo. >>>> >>>> Hi Nicolas, >>>> >>>> I have been looking at the ESUG 2010 slides & google code project pages of xstreams and I must say that I like this very much. >>>> >>>> Your code on SS does indeed load in Pharo 1.1. 8 tests fail out of 37 with errors that I think are probably fixable. I am browsing it now. >>>> >>>> Now my question is, first, do you have some write up somewhere explaining what you did and why, and second, what is the current state of your project and what are your future plans/goals ? >>>> >>>> Thx, >>>> >>>> Sven >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 8, 2010