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Re: [Pharo-project] Another finalization concern: error handling

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

GPL is a problem. It means that nothing I write on top of GSL gets out the door. However, I see no reason not to give others the same mix of capability and concern in the form of an interface to it. ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves(a)elte.hu] Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 10:59 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Another finalization concern: error handling On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Levente, > > Ok, but just because the system saves us at the last instant does not mean that we should be going out of our way to multiply free external resources. Files are well known to the vm; other things (GSL vectors/matrices comes to mind) will not enjoy such protections. This strikes me as a feature that got added when errors arose from attempts to add redundant executors, ultimately due to lack of thread safety. Many things that are being fixed at great cost got started (it sure seems) because someone added a feature or placed something in or too near to Object only to avoid errors vs. finding and fixing the real problem. > > Maybe you have made a strong argument for multiple executors; if so, I've missed it. Right now, it looks like a design flaw instead of a feature. There's code that relies on multiple executors. Every object understands #toFinalizeSend:to:with:. When you use it, you expect that your finalizer will be evaluated when the object is garbage collected. Btw I offered a simple solution for cases like yours. The behavior of WeakRegistry >> #add:executor: can be easily made pluggable when an object has an executor in the registry. Levente P.S.: how will you use GSL knowing that it's license is GPL? Will you keep the code for yourself or release it under the GPL license? > > Bill > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves(a)elte.hu] > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 10:24 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Another finalization concern: error handling > > On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> Levente, >> >> A similar discussion arose around Dolphin's event (#trigger*) mechanism. My recollection is that it was not fully addressed due to performance concerns. Forking and error handlers both have their costs. I'm not saying we should necessarily follow (we probably should not), though with careful design, an interrupted chain of events might survive to be handled on a subsequent attempt. >> >> I am far more worried about having multiple executors per object (when did p=malloc();free(p);free(p);free(p) become good style?) than I am about getting the finalizer process itself completely robust at this point. > > Smalltalk is not C. Try this: > > | file | > file := StandardFileStream fileNamed: 'foo.txt'. > file close. > file primClose: (file instVarNamed: #fileID). > "Those pesky plugins save us all the time. ;)" > > > Levente > >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves(a)elte.hu] >> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 9:51 AM >> To: Pharo Development >> Cc: The general-purpose Squeak developers list >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Another finalization concern: error handling >> >> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> here a situation, with which we can deal in more safer manner: >>> >>> Suppose you have a weak registry, populated by different objects and >>> their executors. >>> >>> Now, when some of them died, a weak registry performs finalization. >>> >>> The potential danger is , that if there's an error triggered by some >>> executor(s), >>> then rest of executors will have no chance to run and will be >>> forgotten, causing memory leakage. >>> >>> What you think, should we handle this more graciously? >>> >>> (Consider a following meta-code) >>> >>> WeakRegistry>>finalizeValues >>> | executors | >>> executors := self gatherExecutorsToRun. >>> >>> executors do: [:ex | >>> [ ex finalize ] fork. >>> ]. >> >> The "gatherExecutorsToRun" part was implemented in the previous version >> of WeakRegistry (history is not available from the image...). #finalize >> wasn't sent from the protected block. The current version lacks it, so it >> will deadlock if a finalizer will try to access the same WeakRegistry. >> Other kind of deadlocks are also possible. For example when a finalizer >> can access a semaphore which is also used by another process that >> uses the same semaphore and also uses the WeakRegistry, but locks them in >> a different order (JNIPort). >> This only happens if the VM doesn't support the new finalization scheme >> which is the case for most current VMs. >> >> There is another issue with removal, and this affects the new finalization >> scheme too, because the finalizer of valuesDictionary is #finalizeValues. >> This means that finalization can happen in a process other than the >> finalization process. This can lead to random errors. >> >> So I think parts of the old WeakRegistry implementation should be >> restored, like: >> - WeakRegistry should collect executors >> - executors should be evaluated outside the protected block >> >>> >>> in this way, if any executor's #finalize causing error, it won't >>> interfere with other executors, and they will accomplish their task >>> normally. >>> Of course, i'm not saying that we should use #fork for this, because >>> it is costly. Similar could be done w/o forking. >>> I just wanted to show a simplest code with which we could achieve a >>> more gracious error handling. >> >> Wouldn't it be better to use an exception handler? >> >> >> Levente >> >>> >>> P.S. of course, in a first place it would be good to make sure that we >>> writing executors, which can't cause an error during finalization. >>> But bad things happen, and we should make sure that rest of system >>> won't be put on its knees because of some stupid bug in a single >>> #finalize. >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Hallo Pharoers.. namespaces in the system level ?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys there is a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference between (1) namespace at the language level and we do not want that the way german did it. Give us some times and we will try different solutions and see what come out (2) systemDictionary at the infrastructure level. We are working on that since Squeak Kernel Cleaning Project here we want the tools to be able to use another environment so that we can - bootstrap the compiler with itself - load different version of code (for Moose) to build report on Pharo 1.2 from pharo 1.1 - bootstrap the kernel - build atomic loading. We are working on 2 and this is what nick needs. I will not talk about namespace at the lnaguage level. No time for that. Stef

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Another finalization concern: error handling

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Sig, I'm not saying to leave the finalizer wide open to the wrath of errors from poorly coded objects. I am saying that we should strive for one finalizer per object (preferably the object itself) and that to get there, we need to make the registry thread safe and have some vm support. Failing the latter, the object can't be its own executor, but there still should be at most one executor per object. Any errors should be raised on the attempt to create the second executor. Arrange for that, and somebody somewhere will ask whether all of this should be thread safe. BTW, Dolphin treats #beFinalizable/#beUnfinalizable by manipulating a mask that controls the vm behavior - haven't looked in a while, but it must be part of the object header. An object can thus be marked as finalizable or not any number of times during its life; no objects are created thanks to the vm support. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 10:47 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Another finalization concern: error handling On 11 October 2010 17:24, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> wrote: > On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> Levente, >> >> A similar discussion arose around Dolphin's event (#trigger*) mechanism. >> My recollection is that it was not fully addressed due to performance >> concerns. Forking and error handlers both have their costs. I'm not saying >> we should necessarily follow (we probably should not), though with careful >> design, an interrupted chain of events might survive to be handled on a >> subsequent attempt. >> >> I am far more worried about having multiple executors per object (when did >> p=malloc();free(p);free(p);free(p) become good style?) than I am about >> getting the finalizer process itself completely robust at this point. > > Smalltalk is not C. Try this: > > | file | > file := StandardFileStream fileNamed: 'foo.txt'. > file close. > file primClose: (file instVarNamed: #fileID). > "Those pesky plugins save us all the time. ;)" > > Don't let me starting again on this. You proposing to care about it in multiple various places, where we could fix it in a single one. It is like adding ifNotNil: test at each place you using setter, instead of putting a single ifNotNil: test inside a setter itself. try this: coll := OrderedCollection new. obj := Object new. wrapper := WeakArray with: obj. coll add: wrapper. obj toFinalizeSend: #remove: to: coll with: wrapper. obj toFinalizeSend: #remove: to: coll with: wrapper. obj toFinalizeSend: #remove: to: coll with: wrapper. obj toFinalizeSend: #remove: to: coll with: wrapper. obj := nil. Smalltalk garbageCollect. The above works silently only because ObjectFinalizer simply swallows any errors: ObjectFinalizer>>finalize "Finalize the resource associated with the receiver. This message should only be sent during the finalization process. There is NO garantuee that the resource associated with the receiver hasn't been free'd before so take care that you don't run into trouble - this all may happen with interrupt priority." [self value] on: Error do:[:ex| ex return]. now, replace this implementation with just self value and you'll see what will happen. Such behavior is completely unacceptable in terms of finding the bugs & problems in your code. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Another finalization concern: error handling

by Igor Stasenko

On 11 October 2010 17:34, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Levente, > > Ok, but just because the system saves us at the last instant does not mean that we should be going out of our way to multiply free external resources. Â Files are well known to the vm; other things (GSL vectors/matrices comes to mind) will not enjoy such protections. Â This strikes me as a feature that got added when errors arose from attempts to add redundant executors, ultimately due to lack of thread safety. Â Many things that are being fixed at great cost got started (it sure seems) because someone added a feature or placed something in or too near to Object only to avoid errors vs. finding and fixing the real problem. > > Maybe you have made a strong argument for multiple executors; if so, I've missed it. Â Right now, it looks like a design flaw instead of a feature. > I second that. Knowing that VM/OS does the best to not pushish those who attempting to free already freed resource, doesn't means that we should be careless about it! OS tries the best to not give away a same file handle for newly opened file as recently closed file(s). malloc() tries the best to not give away the pointer to same memory region, which was recently freed. But obviously, a well-designed application should never rely on such behavior. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo by Example has moved to github

by Serge Stinckwich

Great Oscar ! How to join the SquareBracketAssociates ? On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Oscar Nierstrasz <oscar.nierstrasz(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > See: http://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/ > > Cheers, > - on > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Another finalization concern: error handling

by Levente Uzonyi

On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 11 October 2010 17:24, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> wrote: > On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> Levente, >> >> A similar discussion arose around Dolphin's event (#trigger*) mechanism. >> Â My recollection is that it was not fully addressed due to performance >> concerns. Â Forking and error handlers both have their costs. Â I'm not saying >> we should necessarily follow (we probably should not), though with careful >> design, an interrupted chain of events might survive to be handled on a >> subsequent attempt. >> >> I am far more worried about having multiple executors per object (when did >> p=malloc();free(p);free(p);free(p) become good style?) than I am about >> getting the finalizer process itself completely robust at this point. > > Smalltalk is not C. Try this: > > | file | > file := StandardFileStream fileNamed: 'foo.txt'. > file close. > file primClose: (file instVarNamed: #fileID). > "Those pesky plugins save us all the time. ;)" > > Don't let me starting again on this. You proposing to care about it in multiple various places, where we could fix it in a single one. It is like adding ifNotNil: test at each place you using setter, instead of putting a single ifNotNil: test inside a setter itself. try this: coll := OrderedCollection new. obj := Object new. wrapper := WeakArray with: obj. coll add: wrapper. obj toFinalizeSend: #remove: to: coll with: wrapper. obj toFinalizeSend: #remove: to: coll with: wrapper. obj toFinalizeSend: #remove: to: coll with: wrapper. obj toFinalizeSend: #remove: to: coll with: wrapper. obj := nil. Smalltalk garbageCollect. The above works silently only because ObjectFinalizer simply swallows any errors: ObjectFinalizer>>finalize "Finalize the resource associated with the receiver. This message should only be sent during the finalization process. There is NO garantuee that the resource associated with the receiver hasn't been free'd before so take care that you don't run into trouble - this all may happen with interrupt priority." [self value] on: Error do:[:ex| ex return]. now, replace this implementation with just self value and you'll see what will happen. Such behavior is completely unacceptable in terms of finding the bugs & problems in your code. Interrupting the finalization process is also a bad idea, so we need a better solution. Levente -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Compiler pedantic about ifNotNil: argument

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I think that for typing in a transcript experessions when you want to experiment with something selectors are fun but not in method body. But I know that this is not a really good argument. Just feeling. May be we get trapped in our way of thinking. >>>>>> > I personally don't like the ifTrue:ifFalse: related changes, though it's a logical change. I probably won't use that feature though. But I like the monadic block <-> keyword selector substitution. Maybe the best is to add a setting/preference to the compiler.

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Another finalization concern: error handling

by Levente Uzonyi

On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Levente, > > Ok, but just because the system saves us at the last instant does not mean that we should be going out of our way to multiply free external resources. Files are well known to the vm; other things (GSL vectors/matrices comes to mind) will not enjoy such protections. This strikes me as a feature that got added when errors arose from attempts to add redundant executors, ultimately due to lack of thread safety. Many things that are being fixed at great cost got started (it sure seems) because someone added a feature or placed something in or too near to Object only to avoid errors vs. finding and fixing the real problem. > > Maybe you have made a strong argument for multiple executors; if so, I've missed it. Right now, it looks like a design flaw instead of a feature. There's code that relies on multiple executors. Every object understands #toFinalizeSend:to:with:. When you use it, you expect that your finalizer will be evaluated when the object is garbage collected. Btw I offered a simple solution for cases like yours. The behavior of WeakRegistry >> #add:executor: can be easily made pluggable when an object has an executor in the registry. Levente P.S.: how will you use GSL knowing that it's license is GPL? Will you keep the code for yourself or release it under the GPL license? > > Bill > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves(a)elte.hu] > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 10:24 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Another finalization concern: error handling > > On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> Levente, >> >> A similar discussion arose around Dolphin's event (#trigger*) mechanism. My recollection is that it was not fully addressed due to performance concerns. Forking and error handlers both have their costs. I'm not saying we should necessarily follow (we probably should not), though with careful design, an interrupted chain of events might survive to be handled on a subsequent attempt. >> >> I am far more worried about having multiple executors per object (when did p=malloc();free(p);free(p);free(p) become good style?) than I am about getting the finalizer process itself completely robust at this point. > > Smalltalk is not C. Try this: > > | file | > file := StandardFileStream fileNamed: 'foo.txt'. > file close. > file primClose: (file instVarNamed: #fileID). > "Those pesky plugins save us all the time. ;)" > > > Levente > >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves(a)elte.hu] >> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 9:51 AM >> To: Pharo Development >> Cc: The general-purpose Squeak developers list >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Another finalization concern: error handling >> >> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> here a situation, with which we can deal in more safer manner: >>> >>> Suppose you have a weak registry, populated by different objects and >>> their executors. >>> >>> Now, when some of them died, a weak registry performs finalization. >>> >>> The potential danger is , that if there's an error triggered by some >>> executor(s), >>> then rest of executors will have no chance to run and will be >>> forgotten, causing memory leakage. >>> >>> What you think, should we handle this more graciously? >>> >>> (Consider a following meta-code) >>> >>> WeakRegistry>>finalizeValues >>> | executors | >>> executors := self gatherExecutorsToRun. >>> >>> executors do: [:ex | >>> [ ex finalize ] fork. >>> ]. >> >> The "gatherExecutorsToRun" part was implemented in the previous version >> of WeakRegistry (history is not available from the image...). #finalize >> wasn't sent from the protected block. The current version lacks it, so it >> will deadlock if a finalizer will try to access the same WeakRegistry. >> Other kind of deadlocks are also possible. For example when a finalizer >> can access a semaphore which is also used by another process that >> uses the same semaphore and also uses the WeakRegistry, but locks them in >> a different order (JNIPort). >> This only happens if the VM doesn't support the new finalization scheme >> which is the case for most current VMs. >> >> There is another issue with removal, and this affects the new finalization >> scheme too, because the finalizer of valuesDictionary is #finalizeValues. >> This means that finalization can happen in a process other than the >> finalization process. This can lead to random errors. >> >> So I think parts of the old WeakRegistry implementation should be >> restored, like: >> - WeakRegistry should collect executors >> - executors should be evaluated outside the protected block >> >>> >>> in this way, if any executor's #finalize causing error, it won't >>> interfere with other executors, and they will accomplish their task >>> normally. >>> Of course, i'm not saying that we should use #fork for this, because >>> it is costly. Similar could be done w/o forking. >>> I just wanted to show a simplest code with which we could achieve a >>> more gracious error handling. >> >> Wouldn't it be better to use an exception handler? >> >> >> Levente >> >>> >>> P.S. of course, in a first place it would be good to make sure that we >>> writing executors, which can't cause an error during finalization. >>> But bad things happen, and we should make sure that rest of system >>> won't be put on its knees because of some stupid bug in a single >>> #finalize. >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Hallo Pharoers.. namespaces in the system level ?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Nick, Just first reactions, but: (1) questions about integration with the browsers go to Lukas and others who are doing that work; (2) keep the design simple and consistent with "everything is an object, all computation happens by sending messages to objects" (3) use (2) vs. creating new syntax So far, you are well on the way toward (2,3). Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Nick Papoylias [npapoylias(a)gmail.com] Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 10:43 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Hallo Pharoers.. namespaces in the system level ? Ok, first of all thank you all ! It' s definetely a nice welcome for me, from the list. Let me point out one things or two though: It whould be nice to have PEPs (Pharo Enhancement Proposals), for these major issues. See PEP for Python: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/ . Smalltalk is so powerfull that Namespaces can be done in a (large) number of ways. For example should the namespaces have an hierarchy ? Should the Inheritance hierarcy of classes be able to 'break' the boundaries of namespaces ? Should namespaces be first-class ? (ok, yes..), and the list goes on. For example there currently exist a setter in the class side for 'migratting' in a new environment, that just alters the class knowledge about the new namespace and does not erase it's record from the old namespace. Is this intented ? What is the underlying design ? Should we add an environment: setter in the subclass message, so that we integrate namespaces with the current Browser ? Should Behavior always return Smalltalk globals, or there should be a setter to be able to migrate a whole hierarchy of classes elsewhere ? Ok.. hope next time I will posting code instead of questions. Thank you very much, Nick On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: I'm glad to see that it works like class names (at least effectively) as messages to environments than a clone of Java syntax that I saw elsewhere. On the completely pragmatic level, it will make more obvious the fact that our browser selection panes are not individually sizable. I find them narrow at times now, and adding another column will squeeze even more. Maybe I find them narrow specifically because I use long class names that would not be necessary if we had namespaces :) ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] On Behalf Of Simon Denier [Simon.Denier(a)inria.fr<mailto:Simon.Denier@inria.fr>] Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 9:23 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Hallo Pharoers.. namespaces in the system level ? On 11 oct. 2010, at 15:17, Igor Stasenko wrote: Also, i remember someone presented the namespaces implementation during last ESUG conference. Its fresh, and probably will run on pharo. But i don't remember who did this. Here you go, it's a GSOC project, video included: Begin forwarded message: From: James Foster <Smalltalk(a)JGFoster.net<mailto:Smalltalk@JGFoster.net<mailto:Smalltalk@JGFoster.net>>> Date: 24 septembre 2010 00:09:39 HAEC To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr>>, ESUG Mailing list <esug-list(a)lists.esug.org<mailto:esug-list@lists.esug.org><mailto:esug-list@lists.esug.org<mailto:esug-list@lists.esug.org>>> Subject: [Pharo-project] GSoC Project for Namespaces Reply-To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr>> GermÃ¡n Leiva was accepted in Google Summer of Code 2010 and developed a Namespaces implementation for Pharo Smalltalk. A video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4I7fSVNX2A is based on his presentation at ESUG in Barcelona last week. You can get the code at http://www.squeaksource.com/Environments.html. James Foster _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Simon _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Compiler pedantic about ifNotNil: argument

by Levente Uzonyi

On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > On Oct 11, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Levente Uzonyi wrote: > >> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >>>>> That "hack" is really cool IMO. The code is easily understood by anyone: >>>> >>>> #(4 1 3 5 2) sort: #<=. >>> >>> yes in Moose people are using that a lot for scripting. Now the problem is that as soon >>> as you need more you have to get a block. >> >> Why is that a problem? You can use the symbol for simple cases and write blocks for the complicated ones. > > Indeed this is why we added Symbol>>value, even if I was against because been burned by Object>>value in some VW projects > > :) > > Now I do not see the point for ifNotNil: and for ifTrue:ifFalse: I personally don't like the ifTrue:ifFalse: related changes, though it's a logical change. I probably won't use that feature though. But I like the monadic block <-> keyword selector substitution. Maybe the best is to add a setting/preference to the compiler. Levente > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Oct. 11, 2010