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Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 3280 in pharo: Focus indicator for pluggable text morphs not correctly drawn

by pharo＠googlecode.com

Updates: Status: Closed Comment #10 on issue 3280 by marcus.denker: Focus indicator for pluggable text morphs not correctly drawn http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3280 12253

Nov. 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [Pharo-users] TestMock: a full featured mock testing framework now available in SqueakSource

by laurent laffont

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 3:15 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > PharoCore should be really small at the end. > Why a testing framework should be in the core when you can load it and load > the tests? > OK. So I vote for a Mock library in Pharo (Dev). Laurent > > Stef > > > > > I'm lost ... actually tests are in PharoCore. It is planned to remove > them ? > > > > Laurent > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 2:29 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Nothing should be in the core (not even the tests) > > in the core we should have a way to load package from a distribution > server. > > > > Now if this is in Pharo-dev this is another story :) > > We can get tests and mock and mock framework. > > > > Stef > > > > > > > I agree with you Dennis. TDD practices are far ahead in Ruby / Java / > Python world. > > > > > > BUT IMHO can be a real cool neaty great platform for TDD because we > have: dynamic development. > > > > > > What I think we miss: > > > - put a Mock framework in PharoCore - Mocks should be a standard tool > even for low-level stuff > > > - introduce pragmas to declare tests / setUp / tearDown methods so I > can write > > > > > > AddressBookWithLaurentAndDennis>>createAddressBook > > > <setUpTest> > > > bla bla > > > > > > AddressBookWithLaurentAndDennis>>shouldHaveNumberOfContactsAnswersTwo > > > <test> > > > blabla > > > > > > > AddressBookWithLaurentAndDennis>>ifDennisRemovedNumberOfContactsShouldAnswersOne > > > <test> > > > bla bla > > > > > > > > > > > > - (harder) interface to / creation of an executable requirements / BDD > framework like Cucumber http://cukes.info/ > > > > > > Laurent > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 4:31 AM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > As for me, I'm simply unable to establish smooth test-driven process > without Mocks. I think it does not depend on language at all. > > > > > > Without mocks I have to divide the task I have into smaller independent > parts. It's actually an up-front design. I can make a mistake (I usually > do); even worse it's often just impossible to accomplish because too many > subcomponents usually interact thoroughly and I simply don't know which one > to implement first :). So, without mocks I have to code bottom-up, from > details to general. This is unnatural and error-prone. > > > > > > With mocks I can start directly from the task I have. I get a use case > and write a test for the one. Creating the test I detect subcomponents > needed, understand how they should interact and document that in the same > test. As those subcomponents do not exist yet, I have to specify them and > their behavior right in the test (if I don't want to break the process I've > just started). That's why I really need mocks. Then I can take another use > case or implement one of the mocks I used as a real object and so on. Thus, > mocks allow me to go top-down and implement only the things I really need, > not the things I think I'll need. > > > > > > Are there other, maybe better, approaches? > > > > > > Concerning TDD popularityâ¦ I'm not sure TDD plays the role it should in > Smalltalk community. > > > > > > Messing with Smalltalk for about 7â8 years, I can't say I often see > real TDD code. About 50â70% (depending on Smalltalk dialect) of frameworks I > use have no tests at all. The rest often looks being tested a posteriori. > Perhaps, Pharo is the only exclusionâ¦ > > > > > > And if TDD is really popular and widely used, why do we have so much > regression bugs even in core subsystems even in commercial Smalltalks? > > > > > > Please, correct me if I'm wrong. > > > > > > 2010/11/23 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hi Dennis, > > > > > > Yes, TDD is highly popular and encouraged in the Smalltalk community. > > > And mocks are not necessary in most cases. > > > > > > > > > Hi Luc, > > > > > > why Mocks are less necessary in Smalltalk than in other > (Ruby/Python/whatever...) languages ? Do you have some examples / link ? > > > > > > Sometimes I think a mocking library should be in PharoCore so I don't > need to write my own mocks..... > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Laurent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #Luc > > > > > > > > > 2010/11/23 Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com> > > > > > > How is it compared to Mocketry ( > http://www.squeaksource.com/Mocketry.html)? SMock? > > > > > > BTW, isn't TDD without mocks a bit incomplete? And is TDD popular among > smalltalkers actually? > > > > > > 2010/11/22 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > > > > > > This is cool Anindya. I don't need mocks right now, but I will keep it > in mind! > > > > > > I cc'ed Pharo-dev mailing list. > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Mariano > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > From: Anindya Haldar <anindya_haldar(a)yahoo.com> > > > Date: Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:11 AM > > > Subject: [Pharo-users] TestMock: a full featured mock testing framework > now available in SqueakSource > > > To: pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > > > > > > > Dear Pharoers, > > > > > > TestMcok is a full featured mock based test framework that I am very > glad to contribute to the community. It is in squeaksource under the project > name TestMock. Please feel free to try it, and feedback will be greatly > appreciated. The wiki section includes a brief how-to guide with code > examples. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Anindya Haldar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pharo-users mailing list > > > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Dennis Schetinin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Dennis Schetinin > > > > > > > > > > > >

Nov. 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [Pharo-users] TestMock: a full featured mock testing framework now available in SqueakSource

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

PharoCore should be really small at the end. Why a testing framework should be in the core when you can load it and load the tests? Stef > I'm lost ... actually tests are in PharoCore. It is planned to remove them ? > > Laurent > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 2:29 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Nothing should be in the core (not even the tests) > in the core we should have a way to load package from a distribution server. > > Now if this is in Pharo-dev this is another story :) > We can get tests and mock and mock framework. > > Stef > > > > I agree with you Dennis. TDD practices are far ahead in Ruby / Java / Python world. > > > > BUT IMHO can be a real cool neaty great platform for TDD because we have: dynamic development. > > > > What I think we miss: > > - put a Mock framework in PharoCore - Mocks should be a standard tool even for low-level stuff > > - introduce pragmas to declare tests / setUp / tearDown methods so I can write > > > > AddressBookWithLaurentAndDennis>>createAddressBook > > <setUpTest> > > bla bla > > > > AddressBookWithLaurentAndDennis>>shouldHaveNumberOfContactsAnswersTwo > > <test> > > blabla > > > > AddressBookWithLaurentAndDennis>>ifDennisRemovedNumberOfContactsShouldAnswersOne > > <test> > > bla bla > > > > > > > > - (harder) interface to / creation of an executable requirements / BDD framework like Cucumber http://cukes.info/ > > > > Laurent > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 4:31 AM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > As for me, I'm simply unable to establish smooth test-driven process without Mocks. I think it does not depend on language at all. > > > > Without mocks I have to divide the task I have into smaller independent parts. It's actually an up-front design. I can make a mistake (I usually do); even worse it's often just impossible to accomplish because too many subcomponents usually interact thoroughly and I simply don't know which one to implement first :). So, without mocks I have to code bottom-up, from details to general. This is unnatural and error-prone. > > > > With mocks I can start directly from the task I have. I get a use case and write a test for the one. Creating the test I detect subcomponents needed, understand how they should interact and document that in the same test. As those subcomponents do not exist yet, I have to specify them and their behavior right in the test (if I don't want to break the process I've just started). That's why I really need mocks. Then I can take another use case or implement one of the mocks I used as a real object and so on. Thus, mocks allow me to go top-down and implement only the things I really need, not the things I think I'll need. > > > > Are there other, maybe better, approaches? > > > > Concerning TDD popularityâ¦ I'm not sure TDD plays the role it should in Smalltalk community. > > > > Messing with Smalltalk for about 7â8 years, I can't say I often see real TDD code. About 50â70% (depending on Smalltalk dialect) of frameworks I use have no tests at all. The rest often looks being tested a posteriori. Perhaps, Pharo is the only exclusionâ¦ > > > > And if TDD is really popular and widely used, why do we have so much regression bugs even in core subsystems even in commercial Smalltalks? > > > > Please, correct me if I'm wrong. > > > > 2010/11/23 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> > > > > On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Dennis, > > > > Yes, TDD is highly popular and encouraged in the Smalltalk community. > > And mocks are not necessary in most cases. > > > > > > Hi Luc, > > > > why Mocks are less necessary in Smalltalk than in other (Ruby/Python/whatever...) languages ? Do you have some examples / link ? > > > > Sometimes I think a mocking library should be in PharoCore so I don't need to write my own mocks..... > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Laurent > > > > > > > > > > #Luc > > > > > > 2010/11/23 Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com> > > > > How is it compared to Mocketry (http://www.squeaksource.com/Mocketry.html)? SMock? > > > > BTW, isn't TDD without mocks a bit incomplete? And is TDD popular among smalltalkers actually? > > > > 2010/11/22 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > > > > This is cool Anindya. I don't need mocks right now, but I will keep it in mind! > > > > I cc'ed Pharo-dev mailing list. > > > > Cheers > > > > Mariano > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Anindya Haldar <anindya_haldar(a)yahoo.com> > > Date: Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:11 AM > > Subject: [Pharo-users] TestMock: a full featured mock testing framework now available in SqueakSource > > To: pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > > > > Dear Pharoers, > > > > TestMcok is a full featured mock based test framework that I am very glad to contribute to the community. It is in squeaksource under the project name TestMock. Please feel free to try it, and feedback will be greatly appreciated. The wiki section includes a brief how-to guide with code examples. > > > > Regards, > > Anindya Haldar > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-users mailing list > > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Dennis Schetinin > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Dennis Schetinin > > > > >

Nov. 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 3283 in pharo: Symbol dependencie

by pharo＠googlecode.com

Comment #4 on issue 3283 by Benjamin.VanRyseghem.Pharo: Symbol dependencie http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3283 I've make a lot of cs to be sure the order is good, and this time, I can charge the 8 files ^^ Attachments: FixSymbol.1.cs 4.4 KB FixSymbol.2.cs 11.1 KB FixSymbol.3.cs 11.9 KB FixSymbol.4.cs 13.2 KB FixSymbol.5.cs 13.7 KB FixSymbol.6.cs 15.4 KB FixSymbol.7.cs 17.6 KB FixSymbol.8.cs 18.1 KB

Nov. 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 3286 in pharo: SmalltalkImage>>#removeSelector: and Behavior>>#removeSelector:

by pharo＠googlecode.com

Comment #2 on issue 3286 by Benjamin.VanRyseghem.Pharo: SmalltalkImage>>#removeSelector: and Behavior>>#removeSelector: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3286 But I already add issues using Behavior one, issues solved by using SmalltalkImage method ... Maybe it's just a coincidence

Nov. 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 3286 in pharo: SmalltalkImage>>#removeSelector: and Behavior>>#removeSelector:

by pharo＠googlecode.com

Comment #1 on issue 3286 by stephane.ducasse: SmalltalkImage>>#removeSelector: and Behavior>>#removeSelector: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3286 the one in behavior is the key one. The other is just a helper method.

Nov. 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 3285 in pharo: Obsolete ConfigurationOfRFB

by pharo＠googlecode.com

Updates: Status: Closed Comment #2 on issue 3285 by stephane.ducasse: Obsolete ConfigurationOfRFB http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3285 (No comment was entered for this change.)

Nov. 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [Pharo-users] TestMock: a full featured mock testing framework now available in SqueakSource

by laurent laffont

I'm lost ... actually tests are in PharoCore. It is planned to remove them ? Laurent On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 2:29 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > Nothing should be in the core (not even the tests) > in the core we should have a way to load package from a distribution > server. > > Now if this is in Pharo-dev this is another story :) > We can get tests and mock and mock framework. > > Stef > > > > I agree with you Dennis. TDD practices are far ahead in Ruby / Java / > Python world. > > > > BUT IMHO can be a real cool neaty great platform for TDD because we have: > dynamic development. > > > > What I think we miss: > > - put a Mock framework in PharoCore - Mocks should be a standard tool > even for low-level stuff > > - introduce pragmas to declare tests / setUp / tearDown methods so I can > write > > > > AddressBookWithLaurentAndDennis>>createAddressBook > > <setUpTest> > > bla bla > > > > AddressBookWithLaurentAndDennis>>shouldHaveNumberOfContactsAnswersTwo > > <test> > > blabla > > > > > AddressBookWithLaurentAndDennis>>ifDennisRemovedNumberOfContactsShouldAnswersOne > > <test> > > bla bla > > > > > > > > - (harder) interface to / creation of an executable requirements / BDD > framework like Cucumber http://cukes.info/ > > > > Laurent > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 4:31 AM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > As for me, I'm simply unable to establish smooth test-driven process > without Mocks. I think it does not depend on language at all. > > > > Without mocks I have to divide the task I have into smaller independent > parts. It's actually an up-front design. I can make a mistake (I usually > do); even worse it's often just impossible to accomplish because too many > subcomponents usually interact thoroughly and I simply don't know which one > to implement first :). So, without mocks I have to code bottom-up, from > details to general. This is unnatural and error-prone. > > > > With mocks I can start directly from the task I have. I get a use case > and write a test for the one. Creating the test I detect subcomponents > needed, understand how they should interact and document that in the same > test. As those subcomponents do not exist yet, I have to specify them and > their behavior right in the test (if I don't want to break the process I've > just started). That's why I really need mocks. Then I can take another use > case or implement one of the mocks I used as a real object and so on. Thus, > mocks allow me to go top-down and implement only the things I really need, > not the things I think I'll need. > > > > Are there other, maybe better, approaches? > > > > Concerning TDD popularityâ¦ I'm not sure TDD plays the role it should in > Smalltalk community. > > > > Messing with Smalltalk for about 7â8 years, I can't say I often see real > TDD code. About 50â70% (depending on Smalltalk dialect) of frameworks I use > have no tests at all. The rest often looks being tested a posteriori. > Perhaps, Pharo is the only exclusionâ¦ > > > > And if TDD is really popular and widely used, why do we have so much > regression bugs even in core subsystems even in commercial Smalltalks? > > > > Please, correct me if I'm wrong. > > > > 2010/11/23 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> > > > > On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi Dennis, > > > > Yes, TDD is highly popular and encouraged in the Smalltalk community. > > And mocks are not necessary in most cases. > > > > > > Hi Luc, > > > > why Mocks are less necessary in Smalltalk than in other > (Ruby/Python/whatever...) languages ? Do you have some examples / link ? > > > > Sometimes I think a mocking library should be in PharoCore so I don't > need to write my own mocks..... > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Laurent > > > > > > > > > > #Luc > > > > > > 2010/11/23 Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com> > > > > How is it compared to Mocketry ( > http://www.squeaksource.com/Mocketry.html)? SMock? > > > > BTW, isn't TDD without mocks a bit incomplete? And is TDD popular among > smalltalkers actually? > > > > 2010/11/22 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > > > > This is cool Anindya. I don't need mocks right now, but I will keep it in > mind! > > > > I cc'ed Pharo-dev mailing list. > > > > Cheers > > > > Mariano > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Anindya Haldar <anindya_haldar(a)yahoo.com> > > Date: Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:11 AM > > Subject: [Pharo-users] TestMock: a full featured mock testing framework > now available in SqueakSource > > To: pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > > > > Dear Pharoers, > > > > TestMcok is a full featured mock based test framework that I am very glad > to contribute to the community. It is in squeaksource under the project name > TestMock. Please feel free to try it, and feedback will be greatly > appreciated. The wiki section includes a brief how-to guide with code > examples. > > > > Regards, > > Anindya Haldar > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-users mailing list > > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Dennis Schetinin > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Dennis Schetinin > > > > >

Nov. 24, 2010

[Pharo-project] Update for Coral

by Olivier Auverlot

New methods for displaying in a UNIX console : * Console>>displayAttributes: * Console>>eraseScreen * Console>>esc: * Console>>locate: * Console>>plot: * Console>>resetAllAttributes Two examples: * scriptCarpet.cst * scriptHappyFace.cst Best regards Olivier www.auverlot.fr

Nov. 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 3254 in pharo: [Repackage] "Regular expressions" should be well structured

by pharo＠googlecode.com

Comment #11 on issue 3254 by stephane.ducasse: [Repackage] "Regular expressions" should be well structured http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3254 Yes now we just need time or more people integrating fixes

Nov. 24, 2010