- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] Re: Waste of CPU Power by polling events?

by Igor Stasenko

In Hydra, i merged the heartbeat and delay timeout logic into single routine, which were running in high-priority thread. It simply picks the nearest possible time to wait (sleep) - either heartbeat cycle delay, or scheduled Delay timeout, then signals VM to interrupt and handle delay or do regular event processing using ioHandleEvents(). What is good in Windows, that there are special event mask for WaitForMultipleEvents() function, which could put a thread in wait till keyboard/mouse input available. In that way, on Windows, VM could avoid frequent interrupts to for polling events, and instead use waiting thread(s), and interrupt only if some event signaled. FreeBSD also introduced a kernel events, so instead of polling, one could simply wait for I/O activity (like file, socket etc). Not sure about mouse/keyboard input. I'm not sure, but think i heard linux kernel also integrated that recently. On 27 November 2010 00:40, John M McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> wrote: > > Eliot, I had looked at turn off the heartbeat when we did the nanosleep, then turned it back on. Â The problem was actually trying to figure out if > it did any good since the cost of Â pausing/restarting the heartbeat task was high. I think first we have to quantify the costs. This is difficult to do on desktop > machines since they are so fast, so I was working with an iPod touch which is 1000x (wild guess number) times slower. > I'm also unsure of the pattern for when theÂ ioRelinquishProcessorForMicroseconds is called and for how long. Further to that we do attempt to calculate the next wake up time, but sometime it's in the past, so why isÂ ioRelinquishProcessorForMicroseconds being called? Even if we sleep then how long and what wakes us up early? > On 2010-11-26, at 8:39 AM, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > Yes, we need to change this, but I think one has to change the background process and/or nothing to run behavior. Â In the VW VM the VM disables the heartbeat and enters some blocking call when there's nothing to do. Â Squeak runs the background process which calls a primitive that sleeps for a short time. Â The former is much better. Â If a delay is active as the VM does to sleep it schedules a wakeup event or supplies a timeout so that it blocks until input is available or the next delay. > We could still keep the background process and do something similar to VW, disabling the heartbeat until after the relinquish, and factoring the delay into the relinquish timeout. > Also the heartbeat already has facilities to change its frequency, so one could modify things to slow down the heartbeat, again ensuring that it ticks before the next delay expiry. > What approach (not necessarily from the above) appeals to you John? > best > Eliot > > -- > =========================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Â Twitter: Â squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.Â Â http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com > =========================================================================== > > > > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Nov. 27, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 3184 in pharo: ImageSegmentTestExport has test errors

by pharo＠googlecode.com

Updates: Status: Fixed Comment #2 on issue 3184 by adrian.lienhard: ImageSegmentTestExport has test errors http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3184 Attached change fixes the problem. In addition the test #testSubclassInstanceVariableNames is also fixed since it suffered from the same issue. The reason is a very recent change in #nameinEnvironment:subclassOf:type:instanceVariableNames:classVariableNames:poolDictionaries:category:unsafe: Attachments: ImageSegmentTestExportFIx.1.cs 1.9 KB

Nov. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Waste of CPU Power by polling events?

by John M McIntosh

Eliot, I had looked at turn off the heartbeat when we did the nanosleep, then turned it back on. The problem was actually trying to figure out if it did any good since the cost of pausing/restarting the heartbeat task was high. I think first we have to quantify the costs. This is difficult to do on desktop machines since they are so fast, so I was working with an iPod touch which is 1000x (wild guess number) times slower. I'm also unsure of the pattern for when the ioRelinquishProcessorForMicroseconds is called and for how long. Further to that we do attempt to calculate the next wake up time, but sometime it's in the past, so why is ioRelinquishProcessorForMicroseconds being called? Even if we sleep then how long and what wakes us up early? On 2010-11-26, at 8:39 AM, Eliot Miranda wrote: > Yes, we need to change this, but I think one has to change the background process and/or nothing to run behavior. In the VW VM the VM disables the heartbeat and enters some blocking call when there's nothing to do. Squeak runs the background process which calls a primitive that sleeps for a short time. The former is much better. If a delay is active as the VM does to sleep it schedules a wakeup event or supplies a timeout so that it blocks until input is available or the next delay. > > We could still keep the background process and do something similar to VW, disabling the heartbeat until after the relinquish, and factoring the delay into the relinquish timeout. > > Also the heartbeat already has facilities to change its frequency, so one could modify things to slow down the heartbeat, again ensuring that it ticks before the next delay expiry. > > What approach (not necessarily from the above) appeals to you John? > > best > Eliot -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

Nov. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] How to copy a CompiledMethod?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Gabriel, I am also interested in being able to completly copy a CompiledMethod. Do you have in mind to open a ticket and integrate it to Pharo? thanks mariano On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 6:14 PM, Gabriel HernÃ¡n Barbuto <gbarbuto(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Eliot > > Thanks for your response. > > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> On 25 November 2010 20:44, Gabriel HernÃ¡n Barbuto <gbarbuto(a)gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > Hi > >> > > >> > I am trying to make a complete duplicate of a CompiledMethod. I > >> > started with CompiledMethod>>#copyWithTrailerBytes: but I think that > >> > this way still leaves some things to copy. It duplicates all the > >> > literals, but I think that it doesn't duplicate a Pragma if for > >> > example, the method has one. > >> > > >> AFAIR, pragmas are stored as one of literals. > >> So, it actually should also make a copy of pragmas. > > > > Yes. pragmas are effectively referenced from literals. If a method needs > ti > > the penultimate literal (which otherwise is the method;s selector) holds > an > > AdditionalMethodState which refers back to its method. This needs to be > > copied if one is copying a method, since the backpointer needs to refer > to > > the owning method, not the method form which the copy was made. > >> > >> > Is there a proper way to completely make deep copy of a > >> > CompiledMethod? I mean, without writing my own. If there is a way to > >> > do it, I don't want to duplicate it. > >> > > >> if you tell more, why #copy is not enough for you. > > > > If literals are read-only (and Array/ByteArray/String/Float literals are > > conceptually read-only but not actually) you don't need to make a deep > copy. > > You only need to copy the AdditionalMethodState, if present, and the > class > > association, if you want to install the method somewhere else. > > Yes that was exactly what I did. I handle both Association and > AdditionalMethodState in a special way and just send copy to all the > other literals. I was not sure what I could encounter in the literals > so I opted to send copy to them. Maybe they will just return > themselves or make an unnecessary duplicate. > > I have also taken care of copying the Pragmas referenced from any > AdditionalMethodState. Igor mentioned that there could be Pragmas > directly on the literals but I am not sure about that. I will have to > get all the CompiledMethods and check if anyone has a Pragma among its > literals, but that is not enough, maybe my image doesn't have any. > > I understand that all the literals are conceptually read only, and > that copying anything besides the Associations, AdditionalMethodStates > and Pragmas can waste memory and CPU cycles, but I am not interested > in speed nor memory consumption right now. But I will take a note, in > case some day I need to improve the copy. > > After copying all the Associations, AdditionalMethodStates and Pragmas > that I've found I fix the references of both AdditionalMethodStates > and Pragmas to the new method in order to break all references to > objects in the current image that I don't want to show up in the new > image. > > Thanks again. > > Best > Gabriel > > > best > > Eliot > >> > >> > Thanks in advance. > >> > Gabriel > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Best regards, > >> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > >> > > > > > >

Nov. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] How to copy a CompiledMethod?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

gabriel veryDeepCopy should be replaced by copy and postCopy. So could you publish a version of postCopy with a couple of tests? Because this would be good to make progress from this side. Stef On Nov 26, 2010, at 6:14 PM, Gabriel HernÃ¡n Barbuto wrote: > Eliot > > Thanks for your response. > > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> On 25 November 2010 20:44, Gabriel HernÃ¡n Barbuto <gbarbuto(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> I am trying to make a complete duplicate of a CompiledMethod. I >>>> started with CompiledMethod>>#copyWithTrailerBytes: but I think that >>>> this way still leaves some things to copy. It duplicates all the >>>> literals, but I think that it doesn't duplicate a Pragma if for >>>> example, the method has one. >>>> >>> AFAIR, pragmas are stored as one of literals. >>> So, it actually should also make a copy of pragmas. >> >> Yes. pragmas are effectively referenced from literals. If a method needs ti >> the penultimate literal (which otherwise is the method;s selector) holds an >> AdditionalMethodState which refers back to its method. This needs to be >> copied if one is copying a method, since the backpointer needs to refer to >> the owning method, not the method form which the copy was made. >>> >>>> Is there a proper way to completely make deep copy of a >>>> CompiledMethod? I mean, without writing my own. If there is a way to >>>> do it, I don't want to duplicate it. >>>> >>> if you tell more, why #copy is not enough for you. >> >> If literals are read-only (and Array/ByteArray/String/Float literals are >> conceptually read-only but not actually) you don't need to make a deep copy. >> You only need to copy the AdditionalMethodState, if present, and the class >> association, if you want to install the method somewhere else. > > Yes that was exactly what I did. I handle both Association and > AdditionalMethodState in a special way and just send copy to all the > other literals. I was not sure what I could encounter in the literals > so I opted to send copy to them. Maybe they will just return > themselves or make an unnecessary duplicate. > > I have also taken care of copying the Pragmas referenced from any > AdditionalMethodState. Igor mentioned that there could be Pragmas > directly on the literals but I am not sure about that. I will have to > get all the CompiledMethods and check if anyone has a Pragma among its > literals, but that is not enough, maybe my image doesn't have any. > > I understand that all the literals are conceptually read only, and > that copying anything besides the Associations, AdditionalMethodStates > and Pragmas can waste memory and CPU cycles, but I am not interested > in speed nor memory consumption right now. But I will take a note, in > case some day I need to improve the copy. > > After copying all the Associations, AdditionalMethodStates and Pragmas > that I've found I fix the references of both AdditionalMethodStates > and Pragmas to the new method in order to break all references to > objects in the current image that I don't want to show up in the new > image. > > Thanks again. > > Best > Gabriel > >> best >> Eliot >>> >>>> Thanks in advance. >>>> Gabriel >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>> >> >> >

Nov. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] RBScanner>>#initializeClassificationTable

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I would prefer to make sure that we ensure that people can load file with underscores. And one day we discard that. On Nov 26, 2010, at 1:35 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > I agree, removing the option in Pharo 1.2 is maybe a bit early. The > idea is to gradually increase the pain of underscore assignments, to > finally get rid of them. > > Lukas > > On 26 November 2010 09:02, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: >> Hi Lukas, >> >>> In Pharo 1.2 we hopefully remove the option (underscore assignments) >>> to get rid of them for all and forever. >> >> You wont get rid of them just by removing the option. :( >> >> There is a lot of "legacy" code out there that is not converted >> and will then not be loadable in Pharo >= 1.2 or greater. >> >> Keeping the option would allow to load this code and convert >> it to standard assignment in the future. Otherwise >> one has to use Squeak or Pharo < 1.2 to convert before using >> it in recent images. >> >> On the other side we havent cared on backward compatibily too >> much anyway (yet) ... >> >> Bye >> T. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> GMX DSL Doppel-Flat ab 19,99 €/mtl.! Jetzt auch mit >> gratis Notebook-Flat! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl >> >> > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch >

Nov. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo integration in enterprise feedback

by laurent laffont

Indeed I don't want a "how to integrate Pharo into enterprise", I want a "actually I have introduce Pharo in my enterprise and why; what works and what doesn't". Laurent. On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 6:37 PM, <csrabak(a)bol.com.br> wrote: > Em 26/11/2010 07:03, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com > > escreveu: > > > On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 10:40 PM, laurent laffont > > > <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: Hi, I'm looking for feedback on > > > Pharo integration in enterprise. Especially how you have managed > > > to put Pharo in your enterprise. For example, I'm involved in > > > web application development in other > > > languages. For functional testing I'm able to script Selenium > > > using Pharo thanks to WebTester. So Pharo has made a small step > > > at my work. > > > > > > Just show them the diff in time/money for the same > > development. (BTW, I don't have experience on that heheheh). > > Mariano, trust me, I have twenty years of experience on this, and have to > tell you: language or more generally the technology has a very small > impact in the result you're after to show as 'proof' of supremacy for > Pharo in the enterprise. . . > > Processes, the skill level of the developers, the efficacy of management > are much more important. > > I will stay away of more hard discussions which would involve the > statistical > validation of the findings before one can trump any result as gun smoke. > > Regards, > > -- > Cesar Rabak > > > >

Nov. 26, 2010

[Pharo-project] Issue 3337 in pharo: Supporting Metacello in Monticello browser

by pharo＠googlecode.com

Status: New Owner: alexandre.bergel CC: stephane.ducasse Labels: Difficulty-Easy New issue 3337 by alexandre.bergel: Supporting Metacello in Monticello browser http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3337 Pharo image: 1.2 Some version may not have an ancestor, meaning that creating a release may raise an error. MonticelloGUI-AlexandreBergel.82 in PharoInbox fixes this

Nov. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] <script language="smalltalk">

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

On 26. 11. 2010 18:20, csrabak(a)bol.com.br wrote: > Em 24/11/2010 11:50, Jan van de Sandt < jvdsandt(a)gmail.com > escreveu: >> A Smalltalk variant would use Smalltalk as the source language >> instead of Java, the other parts of GWT can be reused. GWT is open >> source (Apache 2.0 license). > I think we have first to evaluate to what audience/market are thinking of > targeting this effort, then estimate the effort, in order to see if its > worth it. Specially we the web guys are very interested of such a beast, because we need to develop more in more on the client side and in JavaScript, which is a bit hard, because of our Smalltalk habits, you know :) Even more, Smalltalk on the client (Clamato way) can also solve one of the main JavaScript problems: debugging on the client side. If we can have near the same debugger on the client as we have in our IDE's, well, this would be a huge step forward. > If the attempt is a reinterpretation a Smalltalk base development environment > would make a difference in the ecosystem we must check if we aren't flared > by our preference of languages versus operational pragmatics. > > If the idea is to have such environment to the present (and sadly minute) > community of Smalltalk developers, probably the effort would attend to a > very small clientÃ¨le and the returns will be elusive and the project will > end orphan. -- Janko MivÅ¡ek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

Nov. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo integration in enterprise feedback

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Em 26/11/2010 07:03, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com > escreveu: > On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 10:40 PM, laurent laffont > > <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: Hi, I'm looking for feedback on > > Pharo integration in enterprise. Especially how you have managed > > to put Pharo in your enterprise. For example, I'm involved in > > web application development in other > > languages. For functional testing I'm able to script Selenium > > using Pharo thanks to WebTester. So Pharo has made a small step > > at my work. > > > Just show them the diff in time/money for the same > development. (BTW, I don't have experience on that heheheh). Mariano, trust me, I have twenty years of experience on this, and have to tell you: language or more generally the technology has a very small impact in the result you're after to show as 'proof' of supremacy for Pharo in the enterprise. . . Processes, the skill level of the developers, the efficacy of management are much more important. I will stay away of more hard discussions which would involve the statistical validation of the findings before one can trump any result as gun smoke. Regards, -- Cesar Rabak

Nov. 26, 2010