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Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity or not of smalltalk?

by Igor Stasenko

On 6 December 2010 13:38, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: > JAjajaja, > > It's not that Indexes are not trustable...Â They are measured in a way > Smalltalk will never be recognized as popular: > > - searches in yahoo > - open source projects in some webs > - people asking for job > > The only one that surprized me is the book's one.Â But > 1) the data is not taken from amazon and I don't know this Powell's Books > library :P. > 2) It's true that there is a stupid amount of java, c#, c++ books... > i think there is a lot of books because they are very complex ones :) for a smalltalk, you need just one book, and .. whooop .. you know it after few days of study. For C++ or Java it takes couple of months to learn all this stuff.. > Maybe we can think a not so stupid index. > > Cheers > > On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 4:12 AM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> And I've just seen the bottom of the message :), it >> seemsÂ http://langpop.com/ agree with TIOBE. >> >> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 8:09 AM, laurent laffont >> <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 6:51 AM, James Ladd <james_ladd(a)hotmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> While pleading for Smalltalk support with a developer from a popular and >>>> great IDE company, I got the >>>> >>>> following response (below) >>>> >>>> Is there anything I can do/show to prove or disprove the popularity of >>>> Smalltalk? >>> >>> According to TIOBE, Smalltalk is as popular as Erlang and more popular >>> than Scala http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html >>> But that's only numbers and I don't trust it :) >>> May be your developer from a "popular" IDE company should define what >>> "popular" means... >>> Laurent >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Rgs, James. >>>> >>>> >>Hello James. >>>> >>>> >>About Smalltalk plugin. Weel, Iâm not sure Smalltalk has a big >>>> >> audience now. Iâve never heard about commercial products based on Smalltalk. >>>> >>Here, some statistics http://langpop.com/ >> > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Dec. 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity or not of smalltalk?

by Guillermo Polito

JAjajaja, It's not that Indexes are not trustable... They are measured in a way Smalltalk will never be recognized as popular: - searches in yahoo - open source projects in some webs - people asking for job The only one that surprized me is the book's one. But 1) the data is not taken from amazon and I don't know this Powell's Books library :P. 2) It's true that there is a stupid amount of java, c#, c++ books... Maybe we can think a not so stupid index. Cheers On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 4:12 AM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com>wrote: > And I've just seen the bottom of the message :), it seems > http://langpop.com/ agree with TIOBE. > > > On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 8:09 AM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com > > wrote: > >> >> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 6:51 AM, James Ladd <james_ladd(a)hotmail.com>wrote: >> >>> While pleading for Smalltalk support with a developer from a popular >>> and great IDE company, I got the >>> >>> following response (below) >>> >>> >>> Is there anything I can do/show to prove or disprove the popularity of >>> Smalltalk? >>> >> >> >> According to TIOBE, Smalltalk is as popular as Erlang and more popular >> than Scala >> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html >> >> But that's only numbers and I don't trust it :) >> >> May be your developer from a "popular" IDE company should define what >> "popular" means... >> >> Laurent >> >> >> >> >>> >>> Rgs, James. >>> >>> >>> >>Hello James. >>> >>About Smalltalk plugin. Weel, Iâm not sure Smalltalk has a big >>> audience now. Iâve never heard about commercial products based on Smalltalk. >>> >>> >>Here, some statistics http://langpop.com/ >>> >> >> >

Dec. 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Debugger not closed issue ?

by laurent laffont

> > > We recently fixed a bug in OCompletion (load OCompletion-klub.84 for the > fix), that resulted in hanging debugger instances. To reproduce the issue: > - open a debugger > - type something to the inspector in the lower right panel and make sure > you've triggered OCompletion. > After closing the debugger it won't be garbage collected. > Thank you Levente. How can I check that my immortal debuggers are the consequence of this bug ? Laurent. > > > Levente > > > >> Cheers, >> >> Laurent Laffont >> >> Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ >> Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ >> >> >

Dec. 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Debugger not closed issue ?

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

I have 6 of them :( By chasing pointers, it seems to be related to ObjectExplorerWrapper... hth, CÃ©drick > > > On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 9:41 AM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks Sven. > > So it's a bug ? > > Laurent > > > On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be> wrote: > Laurent, > > I have 4 remaining in a long running 1.1 image. > > Sven > > On 06 Dec 2010, at 07:57, laurent laffont wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > can you check this please ? > > > > Take an image you work on (not a fresh one), and evaluate: > > > > Debugger closeAllDebuggers. > > Smalltalk garbageCollect. > > Debugger allInstances size. > > > > > > On a lot of my images 1 or 2 Debugger instances remains. It's a problem for Autotest, but it also may be a side effect of Autotest, so I want to check. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Laurent Laffont > > > > Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ > > Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ > > > > >

Dec. 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Debugger not closed issue ?

by Levente Uzonyi

On Mon, 6 Dec 2010, laurent laffont wrote: > Hi, > > can you check this please ? > > Take an image you work on (not a fresh one), and evaluate: > > Debugger closeAllDebuggers. > Smalltalk garbageCollect. > Debugger allInstances size. > > > On a lot of my images 1 or 2 Debugger instances remains. It's a problem for > Autotest, but it also may be a side effect of Autotest, so I want to check. We recently fixed a bug in OCompletion (load OCompletion-klub.84 for the fix), that resulted in hanging debugger instances. To reproduce the issue: - open a debugger - type something to the inspector in the lower right panel and make sure you've triggered OCompletion. After closing the debugger it won't be garbage collected. Levente > > Cheers, > > Laurent Laffont > > Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ > Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ >

Dec. 6, 2010

[Pharo-project] Image freeze because handleTimerEvent and Seaside process gone?!

by Adrian Lienhard

Hi all, We've been experiencing an "interesting" problem: the image freezes and does not response to HTTP requests anymore after it has been running for days. Here some basic information about our setup: Squeak VM 4.0.3-2202 compiled with gcc 4.3.2 PharoCore 1.1 OS Debian Lenny amd64 (CPUs are 4 Intel Xeon E5530 2.40GHz) - We have never seen the problem with the Squeak VM 3.9-9 and Squeak 3.9 on the identical machine and with the same application source (modulo some adaptations to make it run on Pharo). - We run the VM with -mmap 512m -vm-sound-null -vm-display-null, and the UI process is suspended (Project uiProcess suspend) - VM does not hog the CPU and memory usage is normal - The meantime between failure is several weeks and we haven't managed to reproduce the problem - The application mainly serves HTTP requests. When the image does not receive requests for some time we send it a STOP signal, when a request comes in it is sent a CONT signal. - lsof shows TCP *:9093 (LISTEN) TCP server:9093->server:46930 (CLOSE_WAIT) Below is a GDB backtrace and the Smalltalk stacks from an image that was frozen (the VM had been running for almost 100 hours): ============================================================= (gdb) bt #0 0x08072020 in ?? () #1 <signal handler called> #2 0xb766f5e0 in malloc () from /lib/libc.so.6 #3 <function called from gdb> #4 0xb76c50c8 in select () from /lib/libc.so.6 #5 0x08071063 in aioPoll () #6 0xb778bb8d in ?? () from /usr/lib/squeak/4.0.3-2202//so.vm-display-null #7 0x000003e8 in ?? () #8 0x997b5a34 in ?? () #9 0xbfe7cb28 in ?? () #10 0x08074575 in ioRelinquishProcessorForMicroseconds () Backtrace stopped: frame did not save the PC (gdb) call printCallStack() -1719969228 >idleProcess -1719969320 >startUp -1740134028 BlockClosure>newProcess $3 = -1755344892 (gdb) call (int) printAllStacks() Process -1719969228 >idleProcess -1719969320 >startUp -1740134028 BlockClosure>newProcess Process -1740113860 >finalizationProcess -1740113952 >restartFinalizationProcess -1740113532 BlockClosure>newProcess Process -1740134424 SmalltalkImage>lowSpaceWatcher -1740134516 SmalltalkImage>installLowSpaceWatcher -1740134300 BlockClosure>newProcess Process -1719451488 Delay>wait -1719451580 BlockClosure>ifCurtailed: -1719451704 Delay>wait -1719451796 InputEventPollingFetcher>waitForInput -1740126940 InputEventFetcher>eventLoop -1740127032 InputEventFetcher>installEventLoop -1740126816 BlockClosure>newProcess Process -1719557780 UnixOSProcessAccessor>grimReaperProcess -1740113624 BlockClosure>repeat -1740113716 UnixOSProcessAccessor>grimReaperProcess -1740117340 BlockClosure>newProcess [omitted many newlines between output above] ============================================================= What is striking from the above process listing is that two processes are missing: the handleTimerEvent process and the Seaside process (that is, the TCP listener loop). How comes these processes vanished? This may be related to Pharo or to the Squeak VM. Has anybody else seen this problem? Any idea how to debug/fix this issue is very much appreciated! Cheers, Adrian CCed to pharo-dev since this may be related to Pharo; please respond on the squeak-vm list

Dec. 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Debugger not closed issue ?

by laurent laffont

Does not change anything... Laurent On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I don't know why nor when, but someone once suggest me to always do 3 > timesRepeat: [Smalltalk garbageCollect]. > > Can you check: > > Debugger closeAllDebuggers. > 3 timesRepeat: [Smalltalk garbageCollect]. > Debugger allInstances size. > > If this works, then it would be nice to have someone that explains to us > haha > > > > On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 9:41 AM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com > > wrote: > >> Thanks Sven. >> >> So it's a bug ? >> >> Laurent >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be>wrote: >> >>> Laurent, >>> >>> I have 4 remaining in a long running 1.1 image. >>> >>> Sven >>> >>> On 06 Dec 2010, at 07:57, laurent laffont wrote: >>> >>> > Hi, >>> > >>> > can you check this please ? >>> > >>> > Take an image you work on (not a fresh one), and evaluate: >>> > >>> > Debugger closeAllDebuggers. >>> > Smalltalk garbageCollect. >>> > Debugger allInstances size. >>> > >>> > >>> > On a lot of my images 1 or 2 Debugger instances remains. It's a problem >>> for Autotest, but it also may be a side effect of Autotest, so I want to >>> check. >>> > >>> > Cheers, >>> > >>> > Laurent Laffont >>> > >>> > Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ >>> > Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> >>> >> >

Dec. 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Debugger not closed issue ?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

I don't know why nor when, but someone once suggest me to always do 3 timesRepeat: [Smalltalk garbageCollect]. Can you check: Debugger closeAllDebuggers. 3 timesRepeat: [Smalltalk garbageCollect]. Debugger allInstances size. If this works, then it would be nice to have someone that explains to us haha On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 9:41 AM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Thanks Sven. > > So it's a bug ? > > Laurent > > > On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be>wrote: > >> Laurent, >> >> I have 4 remaining in a long running 1.1 image. >> >> Sven >> >> On 06 Dec 2010, at 07:57, laurent laffont wrote: >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > can you check this please ? >> > >> > Take an image you work on (not a fresh one), and evaluate: >> > >> > Debugger closeAllDebuggers. >> > Smalltalk garbageCollect. >> > Debugger allInstances size. >> > >> > >> > On a lot of my images 1 or 2 Debugger instances remains. It's a problem >> for Autotest, but it also may be a side effect of Autotest, so I want to >> check. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > >> > Laurent Laffont >> > >> > Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ >> > Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> >

Dec. 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 3334 in pharo: [Kernel Dependencies] Model>>#patchworkUIThemeColor

by pharo＠googlecode.com

Updates: Status: Fixed Comment #1 on issue 3334 by Benjamin.VanRyseghem.Pharo: [Kernel Dependencies] Model>>#patchworkUIThemeColor http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3334 fix Attachments: Issue3334ModelRemoveDependenceToColor.1.cs 1.2 KB

Dec. 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] RPackage

by Tudor Girba

Good work, Cyrille! For people that might not know what RPackage is, this project aims to replace PackageInfo with a faster and cleaner implementation. At the moment, all categories are mapped one-to-one and in the end, we would like to remove class categories altogether. This infrastructure is also targeted to code browsers. Doru On 6 Dec 2010, at 09:58, Cyrille Delaunay wrote: > Hello, > > Recently I made some improvements about RPackage. What I mainly did, is to implement the 'SystemAnnounncements listening', to update the organizer when the system change. With that I implemented a set of tests that should all be green now (in RPackageMCSynchronisationTest (I should change the name)). > > You can load RPackage by evaluating: > > Gofer new > squeaksource: 'PharoInbox'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfRPackage'; > load. > (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRPackage) perform: #loadDefault. > > (I think it should work, but squeaksource is down for now, so I was not able to test it). > > In those tests I started to write some about traits, but after few, I realized that the events emitted when a trait change are the same that the one used for classes ? > Then if you have some ideas about what is still missing in RPackage, tell me, I can add it to my task list :) -- www.tudorgirba.com "The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal."

Dec. 6, 2010