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Re: [Pharo-project] Instruments for headless images

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Eliot does it mean that we could run headless and that if specified on the command line we could for example get a debugger open on bugs? Because I would love that for coral. Stef

Jan. 21, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Instruments for headless images

by Igor Stasenko

On 21 January 2011 19:53, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On 21 January 2011 19:06, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 2:34 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> On 21 January 2011 11:28, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > On 21 Jan 2011, at 11:19, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >> > >> >> >>> What is interesting (and we might make that an option) is that the >> >> >>> 'no >> >> >>> display' error results in the image being saved 'headfull' so that >> >> >>> you can >> >> >>> start it up using a display to debug it (suspended >> >> >>> process/debugger). >> >> >> >> >> >> That could be done.. but not as userful as simply report an error. >> >> >> Usually we (developers) knowing what we want to do, >> >> >> and what i don't want to see in my headless image is any attempts to >> >> >> access display/ui. >> >> > >> >> > Yeah, that's why I said it would better be an option. The first thing >> >> > to >> >> > do is simply report the error (and quit, or maybe that should be an >> >> > option >> >> > too). But many people playing with headless images (myself included) >> >> > have >> >> > had blocking/locked up images: having a log would be great, but >> >> > adding this >> >> > option to debug the cause further would be great. >> >> > >> >> >> >> this is next step.. >> >> >> >> I think this could be set by preference system >> >> on error: >> >> Â - print error to log and quit >> >> Â - print error to log and do save & quit >> >> Â - print error to log and do save new version & quit >> >> >> >> In future , by adding support from VM side we could also have: >> >> Â - switch to interactive(headfull) mode, by creating an OS window >> >> opening debugger , showing dialog(s) etc etc >> > >> > The VW headful/headless switch requires _no_ additional VM support at >> > all. >> > Â All one needs is stdio support (which we have) and everything else can >> > be >> > done in Smalltalk. >> > >> >> err.. no additional support? you mean it already in there? >> - how to tell VM to close everything at runtime and become headless > > There's an openDisplay primitive that is used ever time the system comes up > headless. Â IFAIA one never goes directly headless from a headful state. > Â Instead one saves headless and resumes the snapshot headless. "Saving > headless" means doing a snapshot that sets a variable such that when the > saved image resumes it doesn't do an openDisplay. What one does do is > dynamically become headful, and to do that one just uses the openDisplay > primitive. Â (FYI openDisplay is primitive #960). >> >> - how to tell VM to create a new window(s) and turn from headless to >> headful mode? > > UseÂ openDisplay. > that what i meant by saying 'VM support' SqueakVMs don't have such primitive. But maybe we don't need it, because i think it would be much better to give image a full control upon creation/closing of host windows. So, image could decide by own what to do (and then you even don't need to a special handling in VM for headless mode, since it will be a decision which image does, not VM). -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Jan. 21, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Gofer issue

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

So what is the convention because I would like to enforce it. There is no need to have more mess. Stef On Jan 21, 2011, at 6:48 PM, Dale Henrichs wrote: > On 01/21/2011 08:11 AM, Miguel CobÃ¡ wrote: >> El vie, 21-01-2011 a las 11:05 +0100, Igor Stasenko escribiÃ³: >> >>> Okay, i found the solution. Use Installer ! >>> >>> Installer monticello http: 'http://www.squeaksource.com'; >>> project: 'VMMaker'; >>> install: 'CMakeVMMaker' >>> >>> >>> works well for me and loads correct *latest* version. >> >> That isn't a solution and open again a gratuitous discussion about gofer >> vs installer. >> >> The point is, in a distributed SCM system, like Monticello is, there >> isn't a latest version. At least not by the traditional (suversion for >> example) way of knowing the monotone numeric integer version number. As >> Lukas said, the only way to know something is latest is to compare >> timestamps, but not version numbers or commits id. They aren't not >> intended to be ordered respect to time. >> >> Cheers >> > > It seems to me that that isn't quite the issue ... for Metacello I had to change the sort algorithm that Gofer used to more closely match the algorithm used by the Monticello GUI when it sorts packages ... to minimize the surprise for developers who are used to the Monticello GUI sorting order... I also had to change the branch naming scheme that was used by Gofer, because it caused problems when package names inadvertently looked like a branch to Gofer when it wasn't...Since there has never been an enforced naming convention in Monticello, there are a whole lot of incompatible naming schemes being used... > > BTW, I made these changes so that they only applied to Metacello's use of Gofer ... > > Dale >

Jan. 21, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Re: Instruments for headless images

by Igor Stasenko

On 21 January 2011 20:19, Chris Muller <asqueaker(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Considerations about improving headless support need to not only be > about what to do with error output. Â When "running headless," the user > is taking on a different kind of interaction with the system; it is > now an industrial interface instead of the GUI, but it *is* a > user-interface nonetheless. Â Therefore interacting with the system > this way should address *input* as well as output. > > The input in the industrial environment consists of the name of a > Smalltalk script + command-line arguments to that script. > >> this is next step.. >> >> I think this could be set by preference system >> on error: >> Â - print error to log and quit >> Â - print error to log and do save & quit >> Â - print error to log and do save new version & quit > > It's important to allow the same image to be used by multiple scripts, > some of which might want to exit without saving, some which want to > save under a new name. Â "How-to-quit" should be specific to each input > script, not a global preference in the image. > Yes, but i'm not talking about scripts which are crafted specifically to run for headless images and aware about various nuances. I am talking about scripts which are quickly coded without any precautions, because most of users can't make difference between running headless and headful and where all problems can arise from.. So for such scripts image should behave adequately and not hang in undetermined state waiting an input from potential user. It should use these settings as default ones. I just wanna make life a bit easier for people :) > Regards, > Â Chris > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Jan. 21, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Gofer issue

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

+1 >> Okay, i found the solution. Use Installer ! >> >> Installer monticello http: 'http://www.squeaksource.com'; >> project: 'VMMaker'; >> install: 'CMakeVMMaker' >> >> >> works well for me and loads correct *latest* version. > > That isn't a solution and open again a gratuitous discussion about gofer > vs installer. > > The point is, in a distributed SCM system, like Monticello is, there > isn't a latest version. At least not by the traditional (suversion for > example) way of knowing the monotone numeric integer version number. As > Lukas said, the only way to know something is latest is to compare > timestamps, but not version numbers or commits id. They aren't not > intended to be ordered respect to time. > > Cheers > > -- > Miguel CobÃ¡ > http://twitter.com/MiguelCobaMtz > http://miguel.leugim.com.mx > > > >

Jan. 21, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] PharoSound

by Henrik Sperre Johansen

On 21.01.2011 20:28, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi henrik > > let us know (I did not follow carefully) how to fix that. > > Stef > > On Jan 21, 2011, at 6:16 PM, Henrik Sperre Johansen wrote: > 2 steps: 1: Apply slice in Issue 3566 to 1.2 and 1.3 2: Update Metacello ConfigurationOfSound to use http://www.squeaksource.com/PharoSound as repository, with: For 1.2: - latest versions of all packages For 1.1/1.1.1 : - latest version of SoundMorphicUserInterface - version 53 of Sound - No inclusion of Settings-Sound And yes, they include all changes from NonCorePackages, plus preserve all settings so you can avoid crashing the VM if you want :) Cheers, Henry

Jan. 21, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo on the iPhone

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hello > > Why you don't publich pharo to cydia? (for jailbreaked users) would be cool :) if somebody want to drive that it would be good Stef > > 2011/1/21 John M McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> > (a) sign up for Apple's SDK, to install apps on the iPhone you have to pay $99 per year. > > (b) visit squeakvm.org download the source tree > > (c) look for the SqueakPureObjc.xcodeproj > compile/link/debug/run the iPhone app > > (d) Optionally look for the SqueakPureObjcCogVM.xcodeproj after download the COG tree. > Don't cut yourself on the rough edges, but I think Esteban has a workable version now? > > The difference between the two is that the SqueakPureObjcCogVM builds a stack VM, where as the SqueakPureObjc builds the traditional VM but is about 30% slower. > > The image has to include the objective-c bridge and iphone stuff, there is a sample image (broken) in the source tree. > > On 2011-01-20, at 5:10 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > > > Hi! > > > > iPhone 4 is amazing. It will be even better with Pharo inside. Is there a way to install it? > > > > Cheers, > > Alexandre > > > > NB: my device is non jailbreaked. > > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > =========================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com > =========================================================================== > > > > > >

Jan. 21, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Re: Kinect and Etoys

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks ricardo!!! Stef On Jan 20, 2011, at 4:53 PM, Ricardo Moran wrote: > I think I found the cause of the problem: I'm updating the position of each morph inside a WorldState>>#addDeferredUIMessage:. In Pharo, this seems to be really slow. You can test it by executing this: > > | rnd | > rnd := Random new. > 100 timesRepeat: [ > WorldState addDeferredUIMessage: [ > Morph new openInWorld; center: rnd next @ rnd next * Display extent. > ] > ]. > > You'll notice it takes a couple of seconds to finish opening all the morphs, but if you remove the #addDeferredUIMessage: send, it is instantaneous. In Squeak and Etoys both versions are equally fast. > > I looked at it a little, and I think Pharo has a bug in WorldState>>#runStepsMethodsIn:. It seems it only executes one deferred ui message per step. With the implementation below the problem is fixed. > > WorldState>>#runStepMethodsIn: aWorld > "Perform periodic activity inbetween event cycles" > | queue nextInQueue| > > "If available dispatch some deferred UI Message" > queue := self class deferredUIMessages. > [(nextInQueue := queue nextOrNil) isNil] > whileFalse: [ nextInQueue value]. > > self runLocalStepMethodsIn: aWorld. > > Best regards, > Richo > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Ricardo Moran <richi.moran(a)gmail.com> wrote: > The latest stable 1.1.1. I will look at it tomorrow and try to find out more. > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 6:38 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > hi ricardo, > > which version are you using? > > Stef > > On Jan 19, 2011, at 10:32 PM, Ricardo Moran wrote: > > > I forgot to say it works in Squeak and Pharo (although in Pharo it's *painfully* slow, I don't know why yet...) > > > > Cheers > > Richo > > > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 6:04 PM, Ricardo Moran <richi.moran(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi guys! > > I want to tell you some exciting news. Thanks to the ESUG Innovation Technology Awards we've been able to buy ourselves a Microsoft Kinect. We don't have a Xbox 360 yet, but that doesn't mean we can't have a little fun with it. Who needs and Xbox if you can use Kinect with Etoys? :) > > > > After seeing Stephen Howell's great work using Kinect with Scratch, we followed his steps and made it available for Etoys as well. > > See it for yourselves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnqqaHvbeqg > > > > You can find installation steps in our blog: http://tecnodacta.com.ar/gira > > > > Cheers! > > Richo > > > > > > >

Jan. 21, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] PharoSound

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi henrik let us know (I did not follow carefully) how to fix that. Stef On Jan 21, 2011, at 6:16 PM, Henrik Sperre Johansen wrote: > Hi Mariano & all! > > About the changes in 3489 and 3566 earlier today, I think there were some misunderstandings. > > The changes I made in 3566 is to PharoCore, and are intended to work with the Sound package in http://www.squeaksource.com/PharoSound. > It moves the settings stored in SoundSettings to SoundService + ThemeSounds, which are more localized places for them. > This makes sense by itself, but also because that's where they (well, only soundEnabled) are likely to be found if refactored to use preference pragmas in Squeak. > > Because the package in PharoSound has the Squeak trunk Sound package as ancestor as well, it's easy to synch up changes from it. (AFAIK the one in NonCorePackages does not). > I feel this is important, since Sound does not really receive a lot of attention in Pharo, and efforts in Squeak should be as easy to integrate as possible. > > Thus, I'd really appreciate it if the ConfigurationOfSound could be changed to use this repository as the primary source. > > Cheers, > Henry >

Jan. 21, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Some important news

by Alexandre Bergel

Cool!! Alexandre On 21 Jan 2011, at 16:26, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi guys > > some important news today, we decided that we will set up a pharo association > so that we can promote pharo. We would like to be able to collect money and > create bounties to improve pharo. > > Stef -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Jan. 21, 2011