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Re: [Pharo-project] Breakpoints in Pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

no news on this front. We are working on infrastructure right now - better code model - compiler - package - network - redoing the tools. So from a user experience it may look the same but it is a real set of important changes below the surface that will make us far more agile in the future. When we will get done we will be able to move faster on other points. Stef > Dear Pharoers, > > What is the current state of affairs on breakpoints? > > Breakpoins is a thing I really miss when I'm working on Pharo, comparing > to working on VisualWorks... > > This is in light of current question on StackOverflow: > > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5322497/how-can-i-set-a-breakpoint-in-sq… > > Best regards > Janko > > -- > Janko MivÅ¡ek > Aida/Web > Smalltalk Web Application Server > http://www.aidaweb.si >

March 16, 2011

[Pharo-project] What a mess

by Torsten Bergmann

>Yes we will fix that tooooooooooo It's not a bug - more an "undocumented" features that URI's are now used and that means to use file: protocol for absolute paths. If I remember correctly I saw a "sd" on the method somewhere ;) Bye T. P.S.: I hope with hudson accessing different OS machines we can also have more tests to see if things work on all OS platforms -- GMX DSL Doppel-Flat ab 19,99 Euro/mtl.! Jetzt mit gratis Handy-Flat! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl

March 16, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] What a mess

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

What igor means is that it would be good to have a consistent and unified way to pass information to the vm. Right now the mac vm does not handle well -headless and each vm has its different ways to handle arguments. Stef On Mar 16, 2011, at 4:23 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Apparently, it is not broken at all. Like Torsten said, you have to explicitly mention that you want the "file:" if you want to specify an absolute path. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On 16 Mar 2011, at 16:14, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> >> >>> I trying to figure out how command-line arguments are passed to image... >>> and this is complete mess. >> >> what if this is broken don't fix it.... >> ;D >> >> Yes we will fix that tooooooooooo >> >>> >>> I cannot determine why on Windoze, a script argument passed in command >>> line is ignored. >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>> >> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Presenting is storytelling." > >

March 16, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [OT] GTK3 directions - what about Morphic ?

by Esteban Lorenzano

I don't. This is very "linuxish" and not "macish" :P Being seriuos: the posibility to change the look and feel for an application, being "whatever you want" is powerful for developers, but tends to create applications with usability problems, because users expect a common user interface for all "common behavior" in their applications (at least in Mac, it is that way, windoze users are more used to a non-common user interface). best, Esteban El 16/03/2011, a las 9:31a.m., Igor Stasenko escribiÃ³: > On 16 March 2011 11:09, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi, >> I've seen: >> - you can style GTK3 with >> CSS: http://gnomejournal.org/article/107/styling-gtk-with-css >> - GTK3 apps can be rendered in a web browser: >> http://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2010/11/23/gtk3-vs-html5/ >> This sounds sexy. >> I wonder how hard it would be to have SimpleMorphic go in this direction. >> And whether this is useful or not. >> Laurent. > > Well, it is orthogonal. > However, i like the idea of having similar to CSS for theming/styling UI. > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >

March 16, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Breakpoints in Pharo

by Mariano Martinez Peck

2011/3/16 Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> > Dear Pharoers, > > What is the current state of affairs on breakpoints? > > In Pharo 1.2, you have something in OB called "toogle breakpoint" (right click on a method), which puts a breakpoint at the beginning of the method. Then, you can remove it. Of course, it is not like other IDE where you can select the line where to put the breakpoint...but at least it is a progress ;) > Breakpoins is a thing I really miss when I'm working on Pharo, comparing > to working on VisualWorks... > > This is in light of current question on StackOverflow: > > > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5322497/how-can-i-set-a-breakpoint-in-sq… > > Best regards > Janko > > -- > Janko MivÅ¡ek > Aida/Web > Smalltalk Web Application Server > http://www.aidaweb.si > >

March 16, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] What a mess

by Tudor Girba

Apparently, it is not broken at all. Like Torsten said, you have to explicitly mention that you want the "file:" if you want to specify an absolute path. Cheers, Doru On 16 Mar 2011, at 16:14, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > >> I trying to figure out how command-line arguments are passed to image... >> and this is complete mess. > > what if this is broken don't fix it.... > ;D > > Yes we will fix that tooooooooooo > >> >> I cannot determine why on Windoze, a script argument passed in command >> line is ignored. >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Presenting is storytelling."

March 16, 2011

[Pharo-project] Breakpoints in Pharo

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

Dear Pharoers, What is the current state of affairs on breakpoints? Breakpoins is a thing I really miss when I'm working on Pharo, comparing to working on VisualWorks... This is in light of current question on StackOverflow: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5322497/how-can-i-set-a-breakpoint-in-sq… Best regards Janko -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

March 16, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Lumiere on Linux?

by Alexandre Bergel

> Hi Alex, Have you ever tried Ballon3D? http://www.squeaksource.com/Balloon3D > It's an "OpenGL" coded in Smalltalk. It seems like the toolkit you are > building, surely you can reuse or enhance it to suit your needs. We had a look at Balloon3D. Impossible to load it in Pharo. Too many obsolete code and dependencies. Sure, we could have taken some bit from there. But again, I estimated the task too difficult for a student who is learning Smalltalk. I had the feeling that we will have a much better result in two weeks of work by implanting a new engine. > Seems my previous question was ambiguous, I've meant if you are using > Forms as the surface for creating your 3D scenes, (similar as > Ballon3D does). Yes, we are using Forms. > If not, if each polygon is a morph in itself, did you modify Morph class? > Or you are computing the matrices on your engine, and then converting > the scene coordinates into world coordinates? Oh no :-) There is just one morph, the world. 3d objects are rendered by displaying polygon on a form canvas. This is the same in Mondrian. > If you are talking about Lumiere and the practicality of decoupling it > from AlienOpenGL: > I'm 99% sure that CroquetOpenGL works on Linux, Windows and Mac VMs. > > And if COG VMs support FFI, then on those too, because the > CroqueOpenGL interfaces to OpenGL by FFI. > > So you wouldn't have problems in using Lumiere-CroquetOpenGL on every platform. I would be happy to see that. Please, note that I am 100% for using the native 3d support. Really. However, we simply did not have the resources to open the VM and do what we have to. We have a very simple and primitive (but working) 3d engine. We are building on it. Then, if one day, we have a working and reliable solution for displaying 3d objects, when we will switch. There is no doubt about it. But the multiple effort (AlienOpenGL, Croquet, ...) demonstrated this is not easy. But I am optimistic. Cheers, Alexandre > > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Alexandre Bergel > <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >> I am wondering how this will be practical (I have no mean to be arrogant, I just try to understand). Is this tied to a particular platform? Will it work on Linux and Windows? Cog or No-Cog? >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> >> >> On 15 Mar 2011, at 21:01, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >>> from this message i learn that i have to kick my ass and continue >>> working on NativeBoost, >>> including its OpenGL bindings. >>> >>> Too bad, there is not much people who can do low level assembly + VM >>> hacking + openGL hacking >>> and interested in pushing NB forward and/or collaborating with me :( >>> >>> On 16 March 2011 00:17, Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero(a)usi.ch> wrote: >>>> Hi Alex, i'm sad to hear that AlienOpenGL is not working for you, i'm >>>> currently not mainting it. IMO opinion the Croquet OpengL and Igor's >>>> native boost OpenGL are far better choices for interfacing with >>>> OpenGL. >>>> Lumiere is conceptually designed to work with any of the above, but >>>> currently tied to AlienOpenGL. Wouldn't take much to plug the other >>>> two, and you would get the high level abstractions over OpenGL that >>>> Lumiere offers. >>>> >>>> Regarding the boost, it highly depends on the 3D application being >>>> built. http://www.opengl.org/resources/code/samples/advanced/advanced97/notes/node… >>>> Anyway, Croquet OpenGL does the computation on Smalltalk, (but i think >>>> FloatArray is using a plugin).With Lumiere i left the matrix >>>> calculations to OpenGL, but you get less functionality. >>>> >>>> The boost comes not from the matrix calculations but because of the >>>> efficient rendering engine (parallel pipelines) implemented in low >>>> level language, as opposed doing everything in Smalltalk. >>>> Again, this depends on the 3D application being built. >>>> >>>> Regarding the tool that you mentioned, how do you simulate 3D, in the >>>> 2D Morphic framework? I'm finding hard to understand how can you >>>> achieve a Morphic cube. >>>> >>>> Saludos, >>>> Fernando >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 7:29 PM, Alexandre Bergel >>>> <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >>>>>> Great. What about the usual "native code" speed boost? Are you writing a plugin, or is it all Smalltalk code? >>>>> >>>>> It is all Smalltalk code. We are not against native libraries, however we could not make it run. And so, after several months of intensive tries. So, in order to make some progress, we coded a 3d engine in Smalltalk. Actually, this is not difficult (for basic functionalities such as light, cubes, camera -- no texture and complex light rendering). I did a 2d engine for Mondrian. So having a 3d engine should not be that hard (actually it is not). The nice advantage, that it should work on the ipad, iphone, web, ... >>>>> >>>>> Other things, I would be surprise to have a significant boost by using OpenGL for rendering objects if all the matrix computations are realized in Smalltalk. Anyone can comment on it? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>> >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

March 16, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] What a mess

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> I trying to figure out how command-line arguments are passed to image... > and this is complete mess. what if this is broken don't fix it.... ;D Yes we will fix that tooooooooooo > > I cannot determine why on Windoze, a script argument passed in command > line is ignored. > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >

March 16, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Thanks for all the progress in VM

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I'm happy :) On Mar 16, 2011, at 4:04 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > I am happy. I just wanted to thanks Igor, Esteban, Eliot, David, INRIA, and anyone involved with the progress in VM side. > > Today, in less than 1 hour, I could modify the method lookup to add support for proxies, compiled the stack vm and run it. Of course, it was not working, so I needed to debug. But I like debugging with XCode, not gdb directly. So, what I did? cmake -G Xcode (Esteban suggestion). > and I was debugging with XCode. > > Summary: I could do all that in 1 hour. Thanks a lot. > > Mariano

March 16, 2011