August 2022 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Omnibase/Monibase repository removal

by Yanni Chiu

Sounds good. Using Fuel to serialize/deserialize should be fine, but I had unhappy experience with early versions where a newer Fuel version could not read content written by earlier Fuel versions. In my mind, a disk-based B-tree is the fundamental data structure for any database (e.g. GemStone, Omnibase, Relational DBs all have it), but I donât see it mentioned so far. Everything else about a "database" is optional, IMHO. For example, a query language is not needed at all, if the data items are equivalent to objects running in a Smalltalk VM - the query language is Smalltalk itself. It âjustâ has to mesh well with the indexing. Another feature is MVCC. How much concurrency is needed, and how it is implemented, is an implementation choice. Iâd mentioned LMDB on Discord. It has single writer, many readers. Choosing to have multiple simultaneous writers has a cost. When there is one or more big machines, it seems sensible have the big machines use multiple writers. But when these databases scale up, the database ends up sharded, with parts of the data spread over multiple machines. Why not just start there, with many small machines owning a small part of the database, and use just a single writer process. The application can then deal with concurrency, conflicts and assembling results, in whatever manner best suits. So I see the end goal to be a set of frameworks, and some ârecipesâ for putting the frameworks together, to solve the âpersistenceâ problem. These are just half-baked ideas of course. Iâll follow the project, and hope to contribute. Yanni On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 7:08 AM Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > FYI > > As the license situation around Omnibase is unlikely to change and such a > license is not an enabler for collaboration I came to the conclusion that > there is no other way than to start a new OO database (what a surprise! :) ) > > If you are interested or want to see what will happen in the next months > you can have a look at > > https://github.com/ApptiveGrid/Soil > > After half a day of work it can already serialize and partition a simple > graph and store it to disk in a way it can be read back even when > partitioned. Thanks to having Fuel we do not need to reinvent the wheel and > have serialization/materialization done. > Of course this is super simple and does not comes close to anything usable > but a good start. I've also added a documentation in the github repo to > describe the most important parts for me that I will target. > > Questions, critiques and laughs are appreciated, > > Norbert > > Am 08.08.2022 um 15:18 schrieb Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: > > To all Omnibase and Monibase users. > > It turned out that neither of those are open source. The author of the > database contacted me clarifying the situation that he has the copyright > and never released something open source. This means that I will remove the > Omnibase repositories in few weeks from > > https://github.com/ApptiveGrid/MoniBase > > and > > https://github.com/pharo-nosql/OmniBase > > I'm very sorry about that but someone just took the code 9 years before, > copied it on github and put illegally an MIT license to the repository. We > only want free software in our repositories and hence the above will go > away. > > As we see it essential to have a good OO database in pharo we will see how > much effort it will be build a small and simple OO database that can > replace Omnibase. > > regards, > > Norbert > > >

Aug. 12, 2022

Smalltalks 2022: call for registration, talks and sponsors!

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Greetings everyone, The Smalltalks conference is back in Argentina! From Nov 9th to 11th at the 0+Inf building of Facultad de Ciencias Exactas y Naturales, UBA , Buenos Aires. We will celebrate the 50 years of Smalltalk-72 with Dan Ingalls , its main developer, Gilad Bracha and many others. Feel free to register already or submit talks [1]. We welcome all types of presentations: commercial products, experience reports, tooling, virtual machines, research, frameworks & applications, education, etc. You may also consider becoming a sponsor [2] as that is what allows the conference to be free and accessible to everybody. Thanks for sharing the news! [1] https://smalltalks2022.fast.org.ar [2] https://smalltalks2022.fast.org.ar/sponsoring -- Mariano Martinez Peck Email: marianopeck(a)gmail.com Twitter: @MartinezPeck LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-martinez-peck <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-mart%C3%ADnez-peck/> Blog: https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/

Aug. 10, 2022

Re: [Pharo-users] Omnibase/Monibase repository removal

by Norbert Hartl

FYI As the license situation around Omnibase is unlikely to change and such a license is not an enabler for collaboration I came to the conclusion that there is no other way than to start a new OO database (what a surprise! :) ) If you are interested or want to see what will happen in the next months you can have a look at https://github.com/ApptiveGrid/Soil <https://github.com/ApptiveGrid/Soil> After half a day of work it can already serialize and partition a simple graph and store it to disk in a way it can be read back even when partitioned. Thanks to having Fuel we do not need to reinvent the wheel and have serialization/materialization done. Of course this is super simple and does not comes close to anything usable but a good start. I've also added a documentation in the github repo to describe the most important parts for me that I will target. Questions, critiques and laughs are appreciated, Norbert > Am 08.08.2022 um 15:18 schrieb Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: > > To all Omnibase and Monibase users. > > It turned out that neither of those are open source. The author of the database contacted me clarifying the situation that he has the copyright and never released something open source. This means that I will remove the Omnibase repositories in few weeks from > > https://github.com/ApptiveGrid/MoniBase <https://github.com/ApptiveGrid/MoniBase> > > and > > https://github.com/pharo-nosql/OmniBase <https://github.com/pharo-nosql/OmniBase> > > I'm very sorry about that but someone just took the code 9 years before, copied it on github and put illegally an MIT license to the repository. We only want free software in our repositories and hence the above will go away. > > As we see it essential to have a good OO database in pharo we will see how much effort it will be build a small and simple OO database that can replace Omnibase. > > regards, > > Norbert

Aug. 10, 2022

Re: Omnibase/Monibase repository removal

by Dale Henrichs

Hereâs Kurtâs talk from Camp Smalltalk Supreme[1]. Dale [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLF2S6fq5a4 Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2022, at 6:53 AM, Dale Henrichs <dale.henrichs(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: > > ï»¿Norbert, > > I wonât be going to ESUG this year â¦ travel to Europe has always been tough for me and at my age ð¨âð¦³I want to limit my exposure to COVIDâ¦ Perhaps next yearð¤. > > Dale > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Aug 9, 2022, at 3:21 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >>> >> ï»¿Hi Dale, >> >> thanks for the pointer. I always admired what the GemStone people did and do. But I'm looking for something more lightweight and more easy to handle approach this time. Well, from the github page I could not derive what it really does to be honest. >> >> Hope to see you at ESUG, >> >> Norbert >> >>> Am 08.08.2022 um 18:44 schrieb Dale Henrichs <dale.henrichs(a)gemtalksystems.com>: >>> >>> Norbert, >>> Before you go off and invent a data base, you might take a look at GemStone and RemoteServiceReplication[1] ... >>> >>> Dale >>> >>> [1] https://github.com/GemTalk/RemoteServiceReplication >>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 6:19 AM Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >>>> To all Omnibase and Monibase users. >>>> >>>> It turned out that neither of those are open source. The author of the database contacted me clarifying the situation that he has the copyright and never released something open source. This means that I will remove the Omnibase repositories in few weeks from >>>> >>>> https://github.com/ApptiveGrid/MoniBase >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> https://github.com/pharo-nosql/OmniBase >>>> >>>> I'm very sorry about that but someone just took the code 9 years before, copied it on github and put illegally an MIT license to the repository. We only want free software in our repositories and hence the above will go away. >>>> >>>> As we see it essential to have a good OO database in pharo we will see how much effort it will be build a small and simple OO database that can replace Omnibase. >>>> >>>> regards, >>>> >>>> Norbert >>

Aug. 9, 2022

Re: Omnibase/Monibase repository removal

by Dale Henrichs

Norbert, I wonât be going to ESUG this year â¦ travel to Europe has always been tough for me and at my age ð¨âð¦³I want to limit my exposure to COVIDâ¦ Perhaps next yearð¤. Dale Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2022, at 3:21 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > ï»¿Hi Dale, > > thanks for the pointer. I always admired what the GemStone people did and do. But I'm looking for something more lightweight and more easy to handle approach this time. Well, from the github page I could not derive what it really does to be honest. > > Hope to see you at ESUG, > > Norbert > >> Am 08.08.2022 um 18:44 schrieb Dale Henrichs <dale.henrichs(a)gemtalksystems.com>: >> >> Norbert, >> Before you go off and invent a data base, you might take a look at GemStone and RemoteServiceReplication[1] ... >> >> Dale >> >> [1] https://github.com/GemTalk/RemoteServiceReplication >> >> On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 6:19 AM Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >>> To all Omnibase and Monibase users. >>> >>> It turned out that neither of those are open source. The author of the database contacted me clarifying the situation that he has the copyright and never released something open source. This means that I will remove the Omnibase repositories in few weeks from >>> >>> https://github.com/ApptiveGrid/MoniBase >>> >>> and >>> >>> https://github.com/pharo-nosql/OmniBase >>> >>> I'm very sorry about that but someone just took the code 9 years before, copied it on github and put illegally an MIT license to the repository. We only want free software in our repositories and hence the above will go away. >>> >>> As we see it essential to have a good OO database in pharo we will see how much effort it will be build a small and simple OO database that can replace Omnibase. >>> >>> regards, >>> >>> Norbert >

Aug. 9, 2022

Re: Omnibase/Monibase repository removal

by Dale Henrichs

Norbert, Ooops you are right! RSR is an object replication framework that replicates objects between Pharo, Dolphin, and GemStone images. Kurt Kilpela will be giving a talk at ESUG this year so if you are going to ESUG you can get more details right from the horseâs s mouth:) Dale [1] https://downloads.gemtalksystems.com/docs/GemStone64/3.6.x/GS64-GemBuilderf… Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2022, at 3:21 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > ï»¿Hi Dale, > > thanks for the pointer. I always admired what the GemStone people did and do. But I'm looking for something more lightweight and more easy to handle approach this time. Well, from the github page I could not derive what it really does to be honest. > > Hope to see you at ESUG, > > Norbert > >> Am 08.08.2022 um 18:44 schrieb Dale Henrichs <dale.henrichs(a)gemtalksystems.com>: >> >> Norbert, >> Before you go off and invent a data base, you might take a look at GemStone and RemoteServiceReplication[1] ... >> >> Dale >> >> [1] https://github.com/GemTalk/RemoteServiceReplication >> >> On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 6:19 AM Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >>> To all Omnibase and Monibase users. >>> >>> It turned out that neither of those are open source. The author of the database contacted me clarifying the situation that he has the copyright and never released something open source. This means that I will remove the Omnibase repositories in few weeks from >>> >>> https://github.com/ApptiveGrid/MoniBase >>> >>> and >>> >>> https://github.com/pharo-nosql/OmniBase >>> >>> I'm very sorry about that but someone just took the code 9 years before, copied it on github and put illegally an MIT license to the repository. We only want free software in our repositories and hence the above will go away. >>> >>> As we see it essential to have a good OO database in pharo we will see how much effort it will be build a small and simple OO database that can replace Omnibase. >>> >>> regards, >>> >>> Norbert >

Aug. 9, 2022

Re: Omnibase/Monibase repository removal

by Tim Mackinnon

That is unfortunate - is there any way to get the original author to change his mind (I'm guessing they reached out in a huff - which is understandable if this came up unexpectedly)? It seems unfortunate effort to rewrite something, and from an Omnibase perspective, I can't imagine there is sustainable money to be made from future sales of the product (in a world of so many databases more widely available), however offering services on top (which I'm sure the original author is in the best place to do) would seem like a better aim instead of cutting your nose off to spite your face. Of course he is the one that can ultimately make the call, but worth double checking I would say. Tim On Mon, 8 Aug 2022, at 2:18 PM, Norbert Hartl wrote: > To all Omnibase and Monibase users. > > It turned out that neither of those are open source. The author of the database contacted me clarifying the situation that he has the copyright and never released something open source. This means that I will remove the Omnibase repositories in few weeks from > > https://github.com/ApptiveGrid/MoniBase > > and > > https://github.com/pharo-nosql/OmniBase > > I'm very sorry about that but someone just took the code 9 years before, copied it on github and put illegally an MIT license to the repository. We only want free software in our repositories and hence the above will go away. > > As we see it essential to have a good OO database in pharo we will see how much effort it will be build a small and simple OO database that can replace Omnibase. > > regards, > > Norbert

Aug. 9, 2022

Re: Omnibase/Monibase repository removal

by Norbert Hartl

Hi Dale, thanks for the pointer. I always admired what the GemStone people did and do. But I'm looking for something more lightweight and more easy to handle approach this time. Well, from the github page I could not derive what it really does to be honest. Hope to see you at ESUG, Norbert > Am 08.08.2022 um 18:44 schrieb Dale Henrichs <dale.henrichs(a)gemtalksystems.com>: > > Norbert, > Before you go off and invent a data base, you might take a look at GemStone and RemoteServiceReplication[1] ... > > Dale > > [1] https://github.com/GemTalk/RemoteServiceReplication <https://github.com/GemTalk/RemoteServiceReplication> > On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 6:19 AM Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name <mailto:norbert@hartl.name>> wrote: > To all Omnibase and Monibase users. > > It turned out that neither of those are open source. The author of the database contacted me clarifying the situation that he has the copyright and never released something open source. This means that I will remove the Omnibase repositories in few weeks from > > https://github.com/ApptiveGrid/MoniBase <https://github.com/ApptiveGrid/MoniBase> > > and > > https://github.com/pharo-nosql/OmniBase <https://github.com/pharo-nosql/OmniBase> > > I'm very sorry about that but someone just took the code 9 years before, copied it on github and put illegally an MIT license to the repository. We only want free software in our repositories and hence the above will go away. > > As we see it essential to have a good OO database in pharo we will see how much effort it will be build a small and simple OO database that can replace Omnibase. > > regards, > > Norbert

Aug. 9, 2022

Re: Omnibase/Monibase repository removal

by Dale Henrichs

Norbert, Before you go off and invent a data base, you might take a look at GemStone and RemoteServiceReplication[1] ... Dale [1] https://github.com/GemTalk/RemoteServiceReplication On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 6:19 AM Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > To all Omnibase and Monibase users. > > It turned out that neither of those are open source. The author of the > database contacted me clarifying the situation that he has the copyright > and never released something open source. This means that I will remove the > Omnibase repositories in few weeks from > > https://github.com/ApptiveGrid/MoniBase > > and > > https://github.com/pharo-nosql/OmniBase > > I'm very sorry about that but someone just took the code 9 years before, > copied it on github and put illegally an MIT license to the repository. We > only want free software in our repositories and hence the above will go > away. > > As we see it essential to have a good OO database in pharo we will see how > much effort it will be build a small and simple OO database that can > replace Omnibase. > > regards, > > Norbert >

Aug. 8, 2022

Omnibase/Monibase repository removal

by Norbert Hartl

To all Omnibase and Monibase users. It turned out that neither of those are open source. The author of the database contacted me clarifying the situation that he has the copyright and never released something open source. This means that I will remove the Omnibase repositories in few weeks from https://github.com/ApptiveGrid/MoniBase <https://github.com/ApptiveGrid/MoniBase> and https://github.com/pharo-nosql/OmniBase <https://github.com/pharo-nosql/OmniBase> I'm very sorry about that but someone just took the code 9 years before, copied it on github and put illegally an MIT license to the repository. We only want free software in our repositories and hence the above will go away. As we see it essential to have a good OO database in pharo we will see how much effort it will be build a small and simple OO database that can replace Omnibase. regards, Norbert

Aug. 8, 2022