January 2020 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo 8.0] Build #1099: Updates discord URL in WelcomeHelp

by ci-pharo-ci-jenkins2＠inria.fr

There is a new Pharo build available! The status of the build #1099 was: FAILURE. The Pull Request #5440 was integrated: "Updates discord URL in WelcomeHelp" Pull request url: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/5440 Issue Url: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/fix/discord Build Url: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/Test%20pending%20pull%20request%2…

Jan. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-dev] Stand fosdem 2020

by ducasse

I got a talk acccepted in micro languages sunday morning. S > On 6 Jan 2020, at 08:59, Santiago Bragagnolo <santiagobragagnolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi all, we got a stand position for the Sunday 2 February in fosdem. This week I am going to be organising all the goodies slides etc . I would like as well to know if any of the companies working with photo is interested in being shown , and if you have goodies or any mean of helping to share do not hesitate in contacting me. > > > I'll try to get some good photos from the place for sharing later :) > > Santiago > >

Jan. 6, 2020

Stand fosdem 2020

by Santiago Bragagnolo

Hi all, we got a stand position for the Sunday 2 February in fosdem. This week I am going to be organising all the goodies slides etc . I would like as well to know if any of the companies working with photo is interested in being shown , and if you have goodies or any mean of helping to share do not hesitate in contacting me. I'll try to get some good photos from the place for sharing later :) Santiago

Jan. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo key features (document)

by Alistair Grant

Hi Pavel, Excellent presentation! Thanks! Alistair On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 11:02, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, I have created a list of the key Pharo features with some images and animations that should help to explain to public what is cool on Pharo. It is based on a list formerly created for a Wikipedia article. > > https://github.com/pavel-krivanek/pharoMaterials/blob/master/features/Pharo… > > Please look at it to check if something is worth to add or change before we will try to use it somewhere for real. > > Cheers, > -- Pavel

Jan. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-dev] BaselineOfZincHTTPComponents>>baseline:

by Alistair Grant

Hi Sven, Thanks for your reply. On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 14:02, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I would obviously want to avoid branches, as long as they are not really needed. It's not obvious to me. :-) In fact given that Pharo is prepared to break backward compatibility (over time, and in a controlled manner), having a branch per release seems like a good option (not necessarily the only one, of course). > Alistair, looking again at your proposal, I must disagree even harder ;-) > > Right now, (as of 16 days ago), Zinc builds cleanly into Pharo 7 and 8, that is absolute requirement for me. Of course, it might/will override some changes in Pharo 8 that were not yet synced back. That is on the todo list. If one of those changes is absolutely critical to you, we can add it quickly (syncing the change back, in small chunks). That does require that it also works on older Pharo versions, that there are comments, tests. Up to now, I have always managed to make this work. I don't think the change I was proposing would make Zinc any less likely to build cleanly, it should actually increase the likelihood since internal changes to the core Zinc classes that don't affect the interface will not cause problems (in the current version they will). And in fact, it doesn't even introduce (git) branches (despite what I said above) :-) It would mean that there is only one copy of the core classes, which I expect would reduce your workload. > What is your particular problem ? Pavel did some refactoring in https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/commit/45b7de2b6c901112be04230faba48… that moved some methods from the FileSystem-Core package to the Zinc-Resource-Meta-Core package, and they go missing when loading other Zinc packages, e.g. SSO. Thanks! Alistair > Sven > > > On 5 Jan 2020, at 03:14, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Would introducing branches in Zinc to deal with the different versions of Pharo not be an option? > > > > Cheers, > > Doru > > > > > >> On Jan 3, 2020, at 2:48 PM, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Sven, > >> > >> On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 at 12:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > >>> > >>> Alistair, > >>> > >>> Thanks for the write up, it is useful. > >>> > >>> However, the general situation with the relationship between Zinc HTTP Components and Pharo 8 (or its most recent version in development) is often difficult. > >>> > >>> For me, as author and maintainer of Zinc HTTP Components is had been very hard to follow the changes in the latest Pharo and to keep syncing/merging them back. > >>> > >>> Especially since some changes are not backwards compatible with Pharo 7 (the latest stable) and the previous ones (let's say 6 and 5). For me and most users that is unacceptable: HTTP is way too important to not maintain it properly. The problems with source code file access were an example of that, luckily Pablo reacted super fast. > >>> > >>> Another point of friction for me are the many cosmetic changes that were applied, often using automatic means. They do not contribute much (functionally), but cause lots of trouble (to merge, check, validate). > >>> > >>> Normally, years ago, Zinc was synced into Pharo trunk regularly (like every 6 months or so). However, this has not happened for a long time. Why ? Because I have too much work syncing/merging everything back first. > >>> > >>> So I have to put time in this, but it won't happen soon - too much other work. > >>> > >>> Some more comments inline. > >>> > >>>> On 3 Jan 2020, at 11:34, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi Sven, > >>>> > >>>> Following on from a discussion I started in Discord development... > >>>> > >>>> Loading Zinc SSO in Pharo 8 currently causes problems because the Zinc > >>>> packages in core Pharo 8 are out of sync with your repository > >>>> (specifically https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/commit/45b7de2b6c901112be04230faba48… > >>>> caused problems for me). > >>> > >>> Hmm, I guess I missed that one, but I would of course see it when trying to merge back. > >>> > >>>> I was able to resolve the issue by modifying > >>>> BaselineOfZincHTTPComponents>>baseline: to remove all references to > >>>> the packages that are now part of core Pharo 8: > >>>> > >>>> BaselineOfZincHTTPComponents>>baseline: spec > >>>> <baseline> > >>>> spec for: #common do: [ > >>>> spec baseline: 'NeoJSON' with: [ spec repository: > >>>> 'github://svenvc/NeoJSON:v17/repository' ]. > >>>> spec baseline: 'XMLParser' with: [ spec repository: > >>>> 'github://feenkcom/XMLParser:v0.6.1/src' ]. > >>>> spec baseline: 'XMLWriter' with: [ spec repository: > >>>> 'github://feenkcom/XMLWriter:v0.6.0/src' ]. > >>>> "spec project: 'XML Support' with: [ spec className: > >>>> 'ConfigurationOfXMLSupport'; repository: > >>>> 'http://www.squeaksource.com/MetacelloRepository' ]." > >>>> spec > >>>> package: 'Zinc-AWS'; > >>>> package: 'Zinc-REST' with: [ spec requires: #('NeoJSON') ]; > >>>> package: 'Zinc-WebSocket-Core'; > >>>> package: 'Zinc-WebSocket-Tests' with: [ spec requires: > >>>> 'Zinc-WebSocket-Core' ]; > >>>> package: 'Zinc-SSO-OAuth1-Core' with: [ spec requires: > >>>> #('NeoJSON') ]; > >>>> package: 'Zinc-SSO-OAuth2-Core' with: [ spec requires: > >>>> #('NeoJSON') ]; > >>>> package: 'Zinc-SSO-OpenID-Core'; > >>>> package: 'Zinc-SSO-Demo' with: [ spec requires: > >>>> #('Zinc-SSO-OAuth1-Core' 'Zinc-SSO-OAuth2-Core' > >>>> 'Zinc-SSO-OpenID-Core') ]; > >>>> package: 'Zinc-SSO-OAuth1-Tests' with: [ spec requires: > >>>> #('Zinc-SSO-OAuth1-Core') ]; > >>>> package: 'Zinc-SSO-OpenID-Tests' with: [ spec requires: > >>>> #('Zinc-SSO-OpenID-Core') ]; > >>>> package: 'Zinc-WebDAV'; > >>>> package: 'Zinc-WWS-Server'; > >>>> package: 'Zinc-WWS-Client'. > >>>> spec > >>>> group: 'AWS' with: #('Zinc-AWS'); > >>>> group: 'WebDAV' with: #('Zinc-WebDAV'); > >>>> group: 'WebSocket' with: #('Zinc-WebSocket-Core' > >>>> 'Zinc-WebSocket-Tests'); > >>>> group: 'SSO-OAuth1' with: #('Zinc-SSO-OAuth1-Core' > >>>> 'Zinc-SSO-OAuth1-Tests'); > >>>> group: 'SSO-OAuth2' with: #('Zinc-SSO-OAuth2-Core'); > >>>> group: 'SSO-OpenID' with: #('Zinc-SSO-OpenID-Core' > >>>> 'Zinc-SSO-OpenID-Tests'); > >>>> group: 'SSO-Demo' with: #('Zinc-SSO-OAuth1-Core' > >>>> 'Zinc-SSO-OAuth2-Core' 'Zinc-SSO-OpenID-Core'); > >>>> group: 'SSO' with: #('SSO-OAuth1' 'SSO-OAuth2' > >>>> 'SSO-OpenID' 'SSO-Demo' 'Zinc-SSO-Demo'); > >>>> group: 'WWS' with: #('Zinc-WWS-Server' 'Zinc-WWS-Client'); > >>>> group: 'REST' with: #('Zinc-REST') ] > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> This isn't directly usable by you since it replaces 'XML Support' with > >>>> XMLParser and XMLWriter and it would break Pharo 7. > >>> > >>> I don't think using feenk repos is a solution > >> > >> That's why I wrote that it isn't directly usable - it references > >> feenk, which will obviously have to be removed, and it is Pharo 8 > >> specific, more on that below. > >> > >>> , especially since Torsten did official ports of the XML stuff. I would then certainly not use a old metacello configuration in squeak source, but would go to all GitHub/Tonel. > >>> > >>>> But if we modified it to put in checks for Pharo 7 vs Pharo 8 it would > >>>> somewhat future proof the code against changes made in core Pharo 8. > >>> > >>> Like I said, I really want to support two versions back (so today 7 and 6). > >> > >> I think what I'm proposing would support this. To expand a bit more, > >> the idea is to have: > >> > >> baseline: spec > >> <baseline> > >> > >> SystemVersion current major <= 7 > >> ifTrue: [ self baseline7: spec ] > >> ifFalse: [ self baseline: spec ] > >> > >> > >> baseline7: would be the existing baseline. The new baseline: would be > >> changed to remove all the references to the packages in core Pharo 8 > >> (similar to the example above, but without the feenk references). > >> > >> > >>> I would like that Pharo code developers that make changes to Zinc/Zodiac packages at the very least acknowledge and be careful of the fact that Zinc exists outside of one particular Pharo image and has to support some older versions. > >> > >> This obviously isn't a panacea, but it will at least reduce the impact > >> of some changes made in the pharo-project repository. > >> > >> I'm happy to submit a PR if you agree, > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Alistair > > > > -- > > feenk.com > > > > "Every successful trip needs a suitable vehicle."

Jan. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo key features (document)

by Esteban Maringolo

Hi Pavel. Impressive, thank you for collecting and presenting it in this way. It's certainly a very good way to promote Pharo. Regards, Esteban A. Maringolo On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 7:02 AM Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, I have created a list of the key Pharo features with some images and animations that should help to explain to public what is cool on Pharo. It is based on a list formerly created for a Wikipedia article. > > https://github.com/pavel-krivanek/pharoMaterials/blob/master/features/Pharo… > > Please look at it to check if something is worth to add or change before we will try to use it somewhere for real. > > Cheers, > -- Pavel

Jan. 5, 2020

Re: [Pharo-dev] BaselineOfZincHTTPComponents>>baseline:

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi Guys, I would obviously want to avoid branches, as long as they are not really needed. Alistair, looking again at your proposal, I must disagree even harder ;-) Right now, (as of 16 days ago), Zinc builds cleanly into Pharo 7 and 8, that is absolute requirement for me. Of course, it might/will override some changes in Pharo 8 that were not yet synced back. That is on the todo list. If one of those changes is absolutely critical to you, we can add it quickly (syncing the change back, in small chunks). That does require that it also works on older Pharo versions, that there are comments, tests. Up to now, I have always managed to make this work. What is your particular problem ? Sven > On 5 Jan 2020, at 03:14, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > Would introducing branches in Zinc to deal with the different versions of Pharo not be an option? > > Cheers, > Doru > > >> On Jan 3, 2020, at 2:48 PM, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Sven, >> >> On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 at 12:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>> >>> Alistair, >>> >>> Thanks for the write up, it is useful. >>> >>> However, the general situation with the relationship between Zinc HTTP Components and Pharo 8 (or its most recent version in development) is often difficult. >>> >>> For me, as author and maintainer of Zinc HTTP Components is had been very hard to follow the changes in the latest Pharo and to keep syncing/merging them back. >>> >>> Especially since some changes are not backwards compatible with Pharo 7 (the latest stable) and the previous ones (let's say 6 and 5). For me and most users that is unacceptable: HTTP is way too important to not maintain it properly. The problems with source code file access were an example of that, luckily Pablo reacted super fast. >>> >>> Another point of friction for me are the many cosmetic changes that were applied, often using automatic means. They do not contribute much (functionally), but cause lots of trouble (to merge, check, validate). >>> >>> Normally, years ago, Zinc was synced into Pharo trunk regularly (like every 6 months or so). However, this has not happened for a long time. Why ? Because I have too much work syncing/merging everything back first. >>> >>> So I have to put time in this, but it won't happen soon - too much other work. >>> >>> Some more comments inline. >>> >>>> On 3 Jan 2020, at 11:34, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Sven, >>>> >>>> Following on from a discussion I started in Discord development... >>>> >>>> Loading Zinc SSO in Pharo 8 currently causes problems because the Zinc >>>> packages in core Pharo 8 are out of sync with your repository >>>> (specifically https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/commit/45b7de2b6c901112be04230faba48… >>>> caused problems for me). >>> >>> Hmm, I guess I missed that one, but I would of course see it when trying to merge back. >>> >>>> I was able to resolve the issue by modifying >>>> BaselineOfZincHTTPComponents>>baseline: to remove all references to >>>> the packages that are now part of core Pharo 8: >>>> >>>> BaselineOfZincHTTPComponents>>baseline: spec >>>> <baseline> >>>> spec for: #common do: [ >>>> spec baseline: 'NeoJSON' with: [ spec repository: >>>> 'github://svenvc/NeoJSON:v17/repository' ]. >>>> spec baseline: 'XMLParser' with: [ spec repository: >>>> 'github://feenkcom/XMLParser:v0.6.1/src' ]. >>>> spec baseline: 'XMLWriter' with: [ spec repository: >>>> 'github://feenkcom/XMLWriter:v0.6.0/src' ]. >>>> "spec project: 'XML Support' with: [ spec className: >>>> 'ConfigurationOfXMLSupport'; repository: >>>> 'http://www.squeaksource.com/MetacelloRepository' ]." >>>> spec >>>> package: 'Zinc-AWS'; >>>> package: 'Zinc-REST' with: [ spec requires: #('NeoJSON') ]; >>>> package: 'Zinc-WebSocket-Core'; >>>> package: 'Zinc-WebSocket-Tests' with: [ spec requires: >>>> 'Zinc-WebSocket-Core' ]; >>>> package: 'Zinc-SSO-OAuth1-Core' with: [ spec requires: >>>> #('NeoJSON') ]; >>>> package: 'Zinc-SSO-OAuth2-Core' with: [ spec requires: >>>> #('NeoJSON') ]; >>>> package: 'Zinc-SSO-OpenID-Core'; >>>> package: 'Zinc-SSO-Demo' with: [ spec requires: >>>> #('Zinc-SSO-OAuth1-Core' 'Zinc-SSO-OAuth2-Core' >>>> 'Zinc-SSO-OpenID-Core') ]; >>>> package: 'Zinc-SSO-OAuth1-Tests' with: [ spec requires: >>>> #('Zinc-SSO-OAuth1-Core') ]; >>>> package: 'Zinc-SSO-OpenID-Tests' with: [ spec requires: >>>> #('Zinc-SSO-OpenID-Core') ]; >>>> package: 'Zinc-WebDAV'; >>>> package: 'Zinc-WWS-Server'; >>>> package: 'Zinc-WWS-Client'. >>>> spec >>>> group: 'AWS' with: #('Zinc-AWS'); >>>> group: 'WebDAV' with: #('Zinc-WebDAV'); >>>> group: 'WebSocket' with: #('Zinc-WebSocket-Core' >>>> 'Zinc-WebSocket-Tests'); >>>> group: 'SSO-OAuth1' with: #('Zinc-SSO-OAuth1-Core' >>>> 'Zinc-SSO-OAuth1-Tests'); >>>> group: 'SSO-OAuth2' with: #('Zinc-SSO-OAuth2-Core'); >>>> group: 'SSO-OpenID' with: #('Zinc-SSO-OpenID-Core' >>>> 'Zinc-SSO-OpenID-Tests'); >>>> group: 'SSO-Demo' with: #('Zinc-SSO-OAuth1-Core' >>>> 'Zinc-SSO-OAuth2-Core' 'Zinc-SSO-OpenID-Core'); >>>> group: 'SSO' with: #('SSO-OAuth1' 'SSO-OAuth2' >>>> 'SSO-OpenID' 'SSO-Demo' 'Zinc-SSO-Demo'); >>>> group: 'WWS' with: #('Zinc-WWS-Server' 'Zinc-WWS-Client'); >>>> group: 'REST' with: #('Zinc-REST') ] >>>> >>>> >>>> This isn't directly usable by you since it replaces 'XML Support' with >>>> XMLParser and XMLWriter and it would break Pharo 7. >>> >>> I don't think using feenk repos is a solution >> >> That's why I wrote that it isn't directly usable - it references >> feenk, which will obviously have to be removed, and it is Pharo 8 >> specific, more on that below. >> >>> , especially since Torsten did official ports of the XML stuff. I would then certainly not use a old metacello configuration in squeak source, but would go to all GitHub/Tonel. >>> >>>> But if we modified it to put in checks for Pharo 7 vs Pharo 8 it would >>>> somewhat future proof the code against changes made in core Pharo 8. >>> >>> Like I said, I really want to support two versions back (so today 7 and 6). >> >> I think what I'm proposing would support this. To expand a bit more, >> the idea is to have: >> >> baseline: spec >> <baseline> >> >> SystemVersion current major <= 7 >> ifTrue: [ self baseline7: spec ] >> ifFalse: [ self baseline: spec ] >> >> >> baseline7: would be the existing baseline. The new baseline: would be >> changed to remove all the references to the packages in core Pharo 8 >> (similar to the example above, but without the feenk references). >> >> >>> I would like that Pharo code developers that make changes to Zinc/Zodiac packages at the very least acknowledge and be careful of the fact that Zinc exists outside of one particular Pharo image and has to support some older versions. >> >> This obviously isn't a panacea, but it will at least reduce the impact >> of some changes made in the pharo-project repository. >> >> I'm happy to submit a PR if you agree, >> >> Cheers, >> Alistair > > -- > feenk.com > > "Every successful trip needs a suitable vehicle." > > > > > > > >

Jan. 5, 2020

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo key features (document)

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 5 Jan 2020, at 11:59, serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com wrote: > > Impressive list !!! > > Would be nice to have an html version at the end with high-resolution screen shots and put it on the pharo.org website with nice transition animations like the one you found on Apple website for example. +1 > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 5 Jan 2020, at 11:02, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> ï»¿ >> Hi, I have created a list of the key Pharo features with some images and animations that should help to explain to public what is cool on Pharo. It is based on a list formerly created for a Wikipedia article. >> >> https://github.com/pavel-krivanek/pharoMaterials/blob/master/features/Pharo… <https://github.com/pavel-krivanek/pharoMaterials/blob/master/features/Pharo…> >> >> Please look at it to check if something is worth to add or change before we will try to use it somewhere for real. >> >> Cheers, >> -- Pavel

Jan. 5, 2020

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo key features (document)

by serge.stinckwich＠gmail.com

Impressive list !!! Would be nice to have an html version at the end with high-resolution screen shots and put it on the pharo.org website with nice transition animations like the one you found on Apple website for example. Sent from my iPhone > On 5 Jan 2020, at 11:02, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > ï»¿ > Hi, I have created a list of the key Pharo features with some images and animations that should help to explain to public what is cool on Pharo. It is based on a list formerly created for a Wikipedia article. > > https://github.com/pavel-krivanek/pharoMaterials/blob/master/features/Pharo… > > Please look at it to check if something is worth to add or change before we will try to use it somewhere for real. > > Cheers, > -- Pavel

Jan. 5, 2020

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo key features (document)

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Wow, wow, wow, Pavel, this is a really great list. Well done and thank you. It is really impressive if you all these features in a list. It is long and complex, so feedback will only come slowly. And you most probably missed some things as well. Sven > On 5 Jan 2020, at 11:01, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, I have created a list of the key Pharo features with some images and animations that should help to explain to public what is cool on Pharo. It is based on a list formerly created for a Wikipedia article. > > https://github.com/pavel-krivanek/pharoMaterials/blob/master/features/Pharo… > > Please look at it to check if something is worth to add or change before we will try to use it somewhere for real. > > Cheers, > -- Pavel

Jan. 5, 2020