August 2018 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoLauncher : Image version determination error

by Christophe Demarey

Hi, I just published a new version of the launcher: 1.4 (http://pharo.org/download <http://pharo.org/download>) Improvements: Add Origin Template Column Simplify Timestamp Printing Bug fixes: #233 Cannot launch recent Pharo 7 images This version mainly solves the problem of launching recent Pharo 7.0 images. Once this version is downloaded, do not forget to delete the folders related to 70 vms in the Pharo/vms folder. This way, Pharo Launcher will download the latest one. By the way, it also comes with some UI improvements (contributed by Sean and Tim). I will work on a new version with a VM manager able to list locally available VMs, and a way to update or delete them. This new version will be based on Pharo 7 because Pharo Launcher development switched to github (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-launcher) and upcoming features are based on Pharo 7 (new UI, model refactoring). Cheers, Christophe > Le 22 aoÃ»t 2018 Ã 15:54, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > Hi Christophe, > > On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 15:33, Christophe Demarey > <christophe.demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >> Hi Alistair, >> >>> Le 22 aoÃ»t 2018 Ã 12:02, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : >>> >>> Hi Christophe, >>> >>> On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 09:36, Christophe Demarey >>> <christophe.demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> >>>> ... >>>> >>>> As a workaround for now, we are thinking to ship the pharo.version file along with the image to avoid to run images with compatible VMs that we cannot ensure they work well with a given image. >>> >>> Part of the issue here is that Pharo 7 is still in development. My >>> understanding is that within the development cycle we assume that the >>> latest VM is being used (if I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct >>> me :-)). >>> >>> I don't use Pharo Launcher, so I'm not familiar with it, but it seems >>> to me that for the current development version (currently Pharo 7) the >>> launcher needs to ensure that it has the latest stable VM. >> >> Youâre right but the problem is that Pharo Launcher has no way to know what is the pharo version of an image before running it and evaluate a small expression. To achieve that, Pharo Launcher uses a VM that is, at least, compatible with the image format number. We do not have any guarantee that the expression evaluation of the VM will work fine for all images. For now, to detect the pharo version of Spur images, we use Pharo 61 VM. You can assume it will work well for 6. images. What if we use the 70 VM to determine pharo version of 6.* images? It will probably work better for Pharo 7 images (assuming we use the latest 70 VM) but then, no guarantee it will work for 61 images. >> >> The core of the problem is that we should not be forced to run an image to determine its pharo version. Nevertheless, I think it would be good to use the latest available VM for a given image format to determine its pharo version. It should work in most cases. > > Thanks very much for the explanation, it makes sense now. > > My understanding is that the Pharo 7 VM is backward compatible with > Pharo 6.1 (for now). Esteban's process is to release a new stable > Pharo 7 VM, and then a month later upgrade the Pharo 6.1 VM as well. > Of course, that will be superseded by the availability of > pharo.version. > > Thanks again, > Alistair

Aug. 23, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoLauncher : Image version determination error

by Alistair Grant

Hi Peter, On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 19:33, Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > considering how important this is, shouldn't this become standard part of the VM? > e.g. > > ./pharo-x-vm --support pharo-y.image > > Which will return > * 1/yes/... if the VM can launch it > * 2/maybe/unclear... if the VM cannot determine it (this is futureproofing, e.g. if you tried to launch Pharo 9 image with Pharo 7 VM) > * 0/no/maxVersion/... returns the latest known VM version that was capable of launching the image (so VM will have a lookup table to check past image versions) > > or something along those lines... is there some scenario that wouldn't be covered by these three? The current scenario. As I understand it, the VM is compatible with the image format, it is just a bit old and is missing a new primitive (and since this is within the development cycle we're not trying to keep backward compatibility, if you're using the latest pharo 7 image you should be using the latest pharo 7 VM, the rules will change once pharo 7 is released). It would be useful to have a Pharo version embedded in the header of the image. That could then be queried and the latest VM for that version used to start the image. I think that would cover the majority of cases. Cheers, Alistair

Aug. 22, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoLauncher : Image version determination error

by Peter Uhnak

Hi, considering how important this is, shouldn't this become standard part of the VM? e.g. ./pharo-x-vm --support pharo-y.image Which will return * 1/yes/... if the VM can launch it * 2/maybe/unclear... if the VM cannot determine it (this is futureproofing, e.g. if you tried to launch Pharo 9 image with Pharo 7 VM) * 0/no/maxVersion/... returns the latest known VM version that was capable of launching the image (so VM will have a lookup table to check past image versions) or something along those lines... is there some scenario that wouldn't be covered by these three? Peter On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:34 PM Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 21:33, Christophe Demarey > <christophe.demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > > Hi Alistair, > > > > > Le 22 aoÃ»t 2018 Ã 12:02, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> a > Ã©crit : > > > > > > Hi Christophe, > > > > > > On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 09:36, Christophe Demarey > > > <christophe.demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > >> > > >> ... > > >> > > >> As a workaround for now, we are thinking to ship the pharo.version > file along with the image to avoid to run images with compatible VMs that > we cannot ensure they work well with a given image. > > > > > > Part of the issue here is that Pharo 7 is still in development. My > > > understanding is that within the development cycle we assume that the > > > latest VM is being used (if I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct > > > me :-)). > > > > > > I don't use Pharo Launcher, so I'm not familiar with it, but it seems > > > to me that for the current development version (currently Pharo 7) the > > > launcher needs to ensure that it has the latest stable VM. > > > > Youâre right but the problem is that Pharo Launcher has no way to know > what is the pharo version of an image before running it and evaluate a > small expression. > > The VM version auto-evaluation is great, but it would be useful for > another column to explicitly show which VM version to use start an > image, which was also a drop-down list so the VM could be individually > select for each image. Entries could be "Default" (per existing > settings configuration), "Stable", "Latest" plus a list of names of > previously downloaded VMs. This would put people in the drivers seat > when the auto-evaluation misses a beat. > > cheers -ben > >

Aug. 22, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoLauncher : Image version determination error

by Ben Coman

On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 21:33, Christophe Demarey <christophe.demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Hi Alistair, > > > Le 22 aoÃ»t 2018 Ã 12:02, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > > > Hi Christophe, > > > > On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 09:36, Christophe Demarey > > <christophe.demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> > >> ... > >> > >> As a workaround for now, we are thinking to ship the pharo.version file along with the image to avoid to run images with compatible VMs that we cannot ensure they work well with a given image. > > > > Part of the issue here is that Pharo 7 is still in development. My > > understanding is that within the development cycle we assume that the > > latest VM is being used (if I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct > > me :-)). > > > > I don't use Pharo Launcher, so I'm not familiar with it, but it seems > > to me that for the current development version (currently Pharo 7) the > > launcher needs to ensure that it has the latest stable VM. > > Youâre right but the problem is that Pharo Launcher has no way to know what is the pharo version of an image before running it and evaluate a small expression. The VM version auto-evaluation is great, but it would be useful for another column to explicitly show which VM version to use start an image, which was also a drop-down list so the VM could be individually select for each image. Entries could be "Default" (per existing settings configuration), "Stable", "Latest" plus a list of names of previously downloaded VMs. This would put people in the drivers seat when the auto-evaluation misses a beat. cheers -ben

Aug. 22, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo and Docker (some steps)

by Ben Coman

On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 at 21:12, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > > For those interested in Docker: > > I recently played with Pharo and Docker and summarized some of my steps in a small tutorial > in my Pharo wiki: > > http://wiki.astares.com/pharo/613 > > There is also a page following Mike Filonovs suggestions on the Pharo docker file: > > http://wiki.astares.com/pharo/615 > > Maybe this is useful for others too. I see docker mentioned around a lot, but I'm not familiar with it, so its nice to see a concrete example in a domain I'm familiar with. Thanks for posting. cheers -ben

Aug. 22, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoLauncher : Image version determination error

by Alistair Grant

Hi Christophe, On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 15:33, Christophe Demarey <christophe.demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Hi Alistair, > > > Le 22 aoÃ»t 2018 Ã 12:02, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > > > Hi Christophe, > > > > On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 09:36, Christophe Demarey > > <christophe.demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> > >> ... > >> > >> As a workaround for now, we are thinking to ship the pharo.version file along with the image to avoid to run images with compatible VMs that we cannot ensure they work well with a given image. > > > > Part of the issue here is that Pharo 7 is still in development. My > > understanding is that within the development cycle we assume that the > > latest VM is being used (if I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct > > me :-)). > > > > I don't use Pharo Launcher, so I'm not familiar with it, but it seems > > to me that for the current development version (currently Pharo 7) the > > launcher needs to ensure that it has the latest stable VM. > > Youâre right but the problem is that Pharo Launcher has no way to know what is the pharo version of an image before running it and evaluate a small expression. To achieve that, Pharo Launcher uses a VM that is, at least, compatible with the image format number. We do not have any guarantee that the expression evaluation of the VM will work fine for all images. For now, to detect the pharo version of Spur images, we use Pharo 61 VM. You can assume it will work well for 6. images. What if we use the 70 VM to determine pharo version of 6.* images? It will probably work better for Pharo 7 images (assuming we use the latest 70 VM) but then, no guarantee it will work for 61 images. > > The core of the problem is that we should not be forced to run an image to determine its pharo version. Nevertheless, I think it would be good to use the latest available VM for a given image format to determine its pharo version. It should work in most cases. Thanks very much for the explanation, it makes sense now. My understanding is that the Pharo 7 VM is backward compatible with Pharo 6.1 (for now). Esteban's process is to release a new stable Pharo 7 VM, and then a month later upgrade the Pharo 6.1 VM as well. Of course, that will be superseded by the availability of pharo.version. Thanks again, Alistair

Aug. 22, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoLauncher : Image version determination error

by Christophe Demarey

Hi Alistair, > Le 22 aoÃ»t 2018 Ã 12:02, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > Hi Christophe, > > On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 09:36, Christophe Demarey > <christophe.demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >> ... >> >> As a workaround for now, we are thinking to ship the pharo.version file along with the image to avoid to run images with compatible VMs that we cannot ensure they work well with a given image. > > Part of the issue here is that Pharo 7 is still in development. My > understanding is that within the development cycle we assume that the > latest VM is being used (if I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct > me :-)). > > I don't use Pharo Launcher, so I'm not familiar with it, but it seems > to me that for the current development version (currently Pharo 7) the > launcher needs to ensure that it has the latest stable VM. Youâre right but the problem is that Pharo Launcher has no way to know what is the pharo version of an image before running it and evaluate a small expression. To achieve that, Pharo Launcher uses a VM that is, at least, compatible with the image format number. We do not have any guarantee that the expression evaluation of the VM will work fine for all images. For now, to detect the pharo version of Spur images, we use Pharo 61 VM. You can assume it will work well for 6. images. What if we use the 70 VM to determine pharo version of 6.* images? It will probably work better for Pharo 7 images (assuming we use the latest 70 VM) but then, no guarantee it will work for 61 images. The core of the problem is that we should not be forced to run an image to determine its pharo version. Nevertheless, I think it would be good to use the latest available VM for a given image format to determine its pharo version. It should work in most cases. Cheers, Christophe

Aug. 22, 2018

[Pharo 7.0-dev] Build #1192: Implement ZnNewLineWriterStream >> #flush

by ci-pharo-ci-jenkins2＠inria.fr

There is a new Pharo build available! The status of the build #1192 was: SUCCESS. The Pull Request #1709 was integrated: "Implement ZnNewLineWriterStream >> #flush" Pull request url: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/1709 Issue Url: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/22353 Build Url: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/Test%20pending%20pull%20request%2…

Aug. 22, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoLauncher : Image version determination error

by Alistair Grant

Hi Christophe, On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 09:36, Christophe Demarey <christophe.demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > ... > > As a workaround for now, we are thinking to ship the pharo.version file along with the image to avoid to run images with compatible VMs that we cannot ensure they work well with a given image. Part of the issue here is that Pharo 7 is still in development. My understanding is that within the development cycle we assume that the latest VM is being used (if I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me :-)). I don't use Pharo Launcher, so I'm not familiar with it, but it seems to me that for the current development version (currently Pharo 7) the launcher needs to ensure that it has the latest stable VM. Cheers, Alistair

Aug. 22, 2018

[Pharo 7.0-dev] Build #1191: 22360-add-pharo-version-next-to-the-image-file

by ci-pharo-ci-jenkins2＠inria.fr

There is a new Pharo build available! The status of the build #1191 was: SUCCESS. The Pull Request #1714 was integrated: "22360-add-pharo-version-next-to-the-image-file" Pull request url: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/1714 Issue Url: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/22360 Build Url: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/Test%20pending%20pull%20request%2…

Aug. 22, 2018