June 2018 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [PROPOSAL] Put the WorldMenu in a Menu bar

by Denis Kudriashov

Looks like Pharo 7 will be the most impressive release in all aspects of system:). About pragmas: I believe we should move to Commander with first class commands. It requires to create command classes for all menu items. For example "Save image": SaveImageCommand>>execute Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false. SaveImageCommand class>>worldMenuActivation <classAnnotation> ^CmdContextMenuCommandActivation byRootGroupItemFor: *CmdWorldMenuContext * SaveImageCommand class>>globalShortcutActivation <classAnnotation> ^CmdShortcutCommandActivation by: $s meta shift for: *CmdWorldMenuContext * It will bring reusable commands which activation can be extended 2018-06-01 20:23 GMT+03:00 Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com>: > On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 6:46 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> > wrote: > >> Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote >> > Pharo adds 25px margin on all sides of a full-screen window. >> >> Good point. I wonder why that's the case! > > > According to the github issue discussion, this is the case. > > >> Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote >> > it provides the most important/common options that user needs >> >> Ah! Good to know and interesting, but presumably very subjective. > > > For sure. But for an end-user application it is my responsibility to > figure out the UI/UX. > > >> Although it is currently flexible, I don't think we have that now. >> > > The pragma collection can be filtered, but it is not used by the code, so > it is all-or-nothing, not very flexible. I think this is for future > iterations. > > Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote >> > very often I find myself having to move windows, just so I can expose a >> > piece of desktop to click on. >> >> Why don't you use the 25px margin?! ha ha j/k >> > > This applies to fullscreen only. It doesn't apply when you manually move a > window to this space. > And for fullscreen, I often have the margin disabled. So that's why. :) > > Peter >

June 1, 2018

[Pharo 7.0-dev] Build #999: 22036-ClassBuilderWarning--Error--Hierarchy----clean-some-unused-

by ci-pharo-ci-jenkins2＠inria.fr

There is a new Pharo build available! The status of the build #999 was: FAILURE. The Pull Request #1469 was integrated: "22036-ClassBuilderWarning--Error--Hierarchy----clean-some-unused-" Pull request url: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/1469 Issue Url: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/22036 Build Url: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/Test%20pending%20pull%20request%2…

June 1, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] [PROPOSAL] Put the WorldMenu in a Menu bar

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 6:46 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote > > Pharo adds 25px margin on all sides of a full-screen window. > > Good point. I wonder why that's the case! According to the github issue discussion, this is the case. > Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote > > it provides the most important/common options that user needs > > Ah! Good to know and interesting, but presumably very subjective. For sure. But for an end-user application it is my responsibility to figure out the UI/UX. > Although it is currently flexible, I don't think we have that now. > The pragma collection can be filtered, but it is not used by the code, so it is all-or-nothing, not very flexible. I think this is for future iterations. Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote > > very often I find myself having to move windows, just so I can expose a > > piece of desktop to click on. > > Why don't you use the 25px margin?! ha ha j/k > This applies to fullscreen only. It doesn't apply when you manually move a window to this space. And for fullscreen, I often have the margin disabled. So that's why. :) Peter

June 1, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] [PROPOSAL] Put the WorldMenu in a Menu bar

by Sean P. DeNigris

Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote > Pharo adds 25px margin on all sides of a full-screen window. Good point. I wonder why that's the case! Maybe as you later pointed out to keep some desktop available for clicking. Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote > it provides the most important/common options that user needs Ah! Good to know and interesting, but presumably very subjective. This would seem to point to the need for total individual customizability of the World Menu. Although it is currently flexible, I don't think we have that now. Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote > very often I find myself having to move windows, just so I can expose a > piece of desktop to click on. Why don't you use the 25px margin?! ha ha j/k Seriously though, thanks for the explanation it was very helpful. As long as the proposal can be turned on and off it sounds good. ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

June 1, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] [PROPOSAL] Put the WorldMenu in a Menu bar

by Guillermo Polito

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > @Cyril > > I don't know if it should be in the SettingBrowser since Pharo currently >> comes with only one menu (if someone know how to implement a new one it >> will be easy for him to find the option to change the pragma of the >> MenuBarMorph), but the pragma should be parametrizable in any case. > > > Adding a new pragma is not a problem, you can use whatever name you want > (see e.g. worldMenuExample pragma), but there is no way to tell Pharo to > use this instead of the default one. > > > I don't know if it should be in the SettingBrowser since Pharo currently comes >> with only one menu > > > Oh, never mind. I just found out that this is already in place, in > WorldState class>>desktopMenuPragmaKeyword:. I don't know how I managed > to miss this in the past. > So if the new menu bar just uses this (WorldState class>>discoveredMenuPragmaKeyword), > or uses a similar mechanism (so the menus can differ, which would be also > nice), then all is well. > Well, actually we are right now doing this: open "self open" self new menuBarItems: WorldState new menuBuilder menuSpec items; open. So the menu bar uses the menuBuilder used by the system, which is hiding the pragma and everything from us :) > > I'll rephrase, we have ideas to manage all those problems but how do we >> implement it? Currently there is no widget to do that and sadly we don't >> have enough time to create them :( > > > I don't know about menu morph, but the bottom menu can handle overflow, > can that be used for the time-being? > Well, one thing is to overflow like the bottom bar (growing so all items fit). But I'd like to have a solution (now for this iteration) where overflowing items are hidden and shown in a "..." button or a hamburguer button. > > @Sean: > > Were these projects where you were the only user? > > > No. > > For experienced users, I struggle to see how "Navigate over to Xyz which >> takes up screen real estate" is better than "click wherever the cursor happens >> to be" > > > Pharo adds 25px margin on all sides of a full-screen window. This is > enough to add menu to each side. So in fact Pharo already wastes 4x as much > space to do what you want. > Secondly, my menu doesn't match the world menu, it provides the most > important/common options that user needs; so yes, it is faster, because it > is one or two clicks instead of going through items that are not relevant > to the user. > Finally, even if I didn't consider full screen, very often I find myself > having to move windows, just so I can expose a piece of desktop to click on. > > Please don't forget that some Pharo applications are meant for > (non-programmer) end users, and not for (Pharo) developers. > > But don't see a problem with adding a checkbox to settings "Menu bar [x]". > There is already such a setting for the bottom task bar ("Taskbar..."). > > Peter > > On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 4:27 PM, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi Cyril, >> >> On Fri, Jun 01, 2018 at 03:48:54PM +0200, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote: >> > On 01/06/2018 15:18, Alistair Grant wrote: >> > >> > Personally, I would like to have display strategies for the WorldMenu >> > and the user could select the one he likes (because nobody will agree on >> > UI). >> > For example: >> > - Menu bar strategy >> > - World menu strategy >> > - Start button strategy >> > - Composite strategy to have multiple ones >> > >> > Now it is simple to do the two first, but I will probably not have the >> > time to implement the "Start button" one. >> >> Fair enough. (I haven't had time to do much of anything recently) >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 01, 2018 at 03:56:14PM +0200, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote: >> > On 01/06/2018 15:25, Peter Uhn??k wrote: >> > > >> > > Also, is it (easily) possible to configure the position of the menu? >> > > Both top/down, as well as RTL and LTR direction (or right-aligned LTR) >> > > which I mentioned for the bottom menu in an earlier github discussion. >> > > >> > >> > For now I don't think so. I think it would be cool to integrate this >> > first version then everyone can try to improve it. >> >> +1 (to integrating a first version and iterating) >> >> Cheers, >> Alistair >> >> >> > -- Guille Polito Research Engineer Centre de Recherche en Informatique, Signal et Automatique de Lille CRIStAL - UMR 9189 French National Center for Scientific Research - *http://www.cnrs.fr <http://www.cnrs.fr>* *Web:* *http://guillep.github.io* <http://guillep.github.io> *Phone: *+33 06 52 70 66 13

June 1, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] [PROPOSAL] Put the WorldMenu in a Menu bar

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

Hi, @Cyril I don't know if it should be in the SettingBrowser since Pharo currently > comes with only one menu (if someone know how to implement a new one it > will be easy for him to find the option to change the pragma of the > MenuBarMorph), but the pragma should be parametrizable in any case. Adding a new pragma is not a problem, you can use whatever name you want (see e.g. worldMenuExample pragma), but there is no way to tell Pharo to use this instead of the default one. I don't know if it should be in the SettingBrowser since Pharo currently comes > with only one menu Oh, never mind. I just found out that this is already in place, in WorldState class>>desktopMenuPragmaKeyword:. I don't know how I managed to miss this in the past. So if the new menu bar just uses this (WorldState class>>discoveredMenuPragmaKeyword), or uses a similar mechanism (so the menus can differ, which would be also nice), then all is well. I'll rephrase, we have ideas to manage all those problems but how do we > implement it? Currently there is no widget to do that and sadly we don't > have enough time to create them :( I don't know about menu morph, but the bottom menu can handle overflow, can that be used for the time-being? @Sean: Were these projects where you were the only user? No. For experienced users, I struggle to see how "Navigate over to Xyz which > takes up screen real estate" is better than "click wherever the cursor happens > to be" Pharo adds 25px margin on all sides of a full-screen window. This is enough to add menu to each side. So in fact Pharo already wastes 4x as much space to do what you want. Secondly, my menu doesn't match the world menu, it provides the most important/common options that user needs; so yes, it is faster, because it is one or two clicks instead of going through items that are not relevant to the user. Finally, even if I didn't consider full screen, very often I find myself having to move windows, just so I can expose a piece of desktop to click on. Please don't forget that some Pharo applications are meant for (non-programmer) end users, and not for (Pharo) developers. But don't see a problem with adding a checkbox to settings "Menu bar [x]". There is already such a setting for the bottom task bar ("Taskbar..."). Peter On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 4:27 PM, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Cyril, > > On Fri, Jun 01, 2018 at 03:48:54PM +0200, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote: > > On 01/06/2018 15:18, Alistair Grant wrote: > > > > Personally, I would like to have display strategies for the WorldMenu > > and the user could select the one he likes (because nobody will agree on > > UI). > > For example: > > - Menu bar strategy > > - World menu strategy > > - Start button strategy > > - Composite strategy to have multiple ones > > > > Now it is simple to do the two first, but I will probably not have the > > time to implement the "Start button" one. > > Fair enough. (I haven't had time to do much of anything recently) > > > > On Fri, Jun 01, 2018 at 03:56:14PM +0200, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote: > > On 01/06/2018 15:25, Peter Uhn??k wrote: > > > > > > Also, is it (easily) possible to configure the position of the menu? > > > Both top/down, as well as RTL and LTR direction (or right-aligned LTR) > > > which I mentioned for the bottom menu in an earlier github discussion. > > > > > > > For now I don't think so. I think it would be cool to integrate this > > first version then everyone can try to improve it. > > +1 (to integrating a first version and iterating) > > Cheers, > Alistair > > >

June 1, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] [PROPOSAL] Put the WorldMenu in a Menu bar

by Sean P. DeNigris

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote > - the old situation (world menu is click on background) + new task/open > window widget If there's a "preserve the status quo" option (e.g. World Menu behavior unchanged and no toolbar), I'm happy! ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

June 1, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] [PROPOSAL] Put the WorldMenu in a Menu bar

by Alistair Grant

Hi Cyril, On Fri, Jun 01, 2018 at 03:48:54PM +0200, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote: > On 01/06/2018 15:18, Alistair Grant wrote: > > Personally, I would like to have display strategies for the WorldMenu > and the user could select the one he likes (because nobody will agree on > UI). > For example: > - Menu bar strategy > - World menu strategy > - Start button strategy > - Composite strategy to have multiple ones > > Now it is simple to do the two first, but I will probably not have the > time to implement the "Start button" one. Fair enough. (I haven't had time to do much of anything recently) On Fri, Jun 01, 2018 at 03:56:14PM +0200, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote: > On 01/06/2018 15:25, Peter Uhn??k wrote: > > > > Also, is it (easily) possible to configure the position of the menu? > > Both top/down, as well as RTL and LTR direction (or right-aligned LTR) > > which I mentioned for the bottom menu in an earlier github discussion. > > > > For now I don't think so. I think it would be cool to integrate this > first version then everyone can try to improve it. +1 (to integrating a first version and iterating) Cheers, Alistair

June 1, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] [PROPOSAL] Put the WorldMenu in a Menu bar

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

But if we can have - the old situation (world menu is click on background) + new task/open window widget - the new task/open window widget + optional 1st special 'start' button (and keep world menu is click on background) - the new task/open window widget + the new menu bar widget that would then cover all cases, no ? > On 1 Jun 2018, at 15:58, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote >> I really love this idea. I've already added (hacked together) something >> similar for some of my projects so I am happy to see this is going into >> Pharo. > > Were these projects where you were the only user? I'm very leery of this > change. For experienced users, I struggle to see how "Navigate over to Xyz > which takes up screen real estate" is better than "click wherever the cursor > happens to be". Could the setting actually be between the current behavior > and the new, and not variations on something new that many existing users > may not want/benefit from? > > The new user argument makes some sense, but of all the difficulties I had > learning Squeak/Pharo I for one never found the World Menu confusing as a > new user. I guess we have to defer to people who deal more directly with > newbies on that pointâ¦ > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html >

June 1, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] [PROPOSAL] Put the WorldMenu in a Menu bar

by Sean P. DeNigris

Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote > I really love this idea. I've already added (hacked together) something > similar for some of my projects so I am happy to see this is going into > Pharo. Were these projects where you were the only user? I'm very leery of this change. For experienced users, I struggle to see how "Navigate over to Xyz which takes up screen real estate" is better than "click wherever the cursor happens to be". Could the setting actually be between the current behavior and the new, and not variations on something new that many existing users may not want/benefit from? The new user argument makes some sense, but of all the difficulties I had learning Squeak/Pharo I for one never found the World Menu confusing as a new user. I guess we have to defer to people who deal more directly with newbies on that pointâ¦ ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

June 1, 2018