April 2018 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Did magritte change? Magritte-Morph-SeasnDeNigris.95 is not found

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi sean I have the impression that this is related to a hiccup of smalltalkhub. I'm about to get rid of Magritte in Pillar. After I will finish the book tutorial on tinyblog and I will work on magritte. Stef On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 7:42 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote >> So I cannot build pillar anymore! > > What Pharo/OS? Your script seems to work on #60540 on High Sierra. Did you > disable Iceberg shared repos? I usually forget to do that ;) > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html >

April 7, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] Did magritte change? Magritte-Morph-SeasnDeNigris.95 is not found

by Sean P. DeNigris

Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote > So I cannot build pillar anymore! What Pharo/OS? Your script seems to work on #60540 on High Sierra. Did you disable Iceberg shared repos? I usually forget to do that ;) ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

April 7, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] call for help: answer on HN :)

by Dimitris Chloupis

yeah the guy (martin whatever) is a troll, if I remember correctly its the same dude we had on the reddit forum for Smalltalk that has been attacking Pharo with pure lies. He is a typical troll that blows off steam by annoying other people. I am with Stef with this one, the only way to win against a troll is silence. I had a very recent experience where the person in charge underestimated a troll, he overflown the mailing list with negative, many people took the bait and tried to have a civilized discussions with him, he drag it one for month until people started abandoning the community and the community essentially died. I adviced them not to feed the troll but as in many other cases, people dont even listen. Pharo is far from perfect, but this is not a logical discussion , its pure troll tactic. Do not underestimate the power of a troll, it is more powerful than you can imagine and feed on politeness and rationality. Don't feed the troll. On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 8:13 PM phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > interruptible.. yes! > > On Sat, Apr 7, 2018, 19:10 Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi Alex, >> >> Le 07/04/2018 Ã 17:48, Aliaksei Syrel a Ã©crit : >> > Hi >> > >> > Here is a link to a report about their experience with Pharo: >> > https://gitlab.fit.cvut.cz/taibrmar/sokoban-using-bloc >> > >> > There definitely exist things that should be improved. It is a pity when >> > tiny âminorâ issues leave such an unpleasant aftertaste. >> >> Some of them are, sadly, quite unacceptable, IMHO. >> >> I would really dream of a stable, correctly interruptible (i.e. a Cmd-. >> that really works), limited Pharo core. That would help development so >> significantly and allow more experiments. >> >> I solve that by making stuff that distance itself as much as possible >> from a lot of the Pharo stuff that evolves far too much, far too fast to >> be relied upon (widgets, graphics, editors), and I'm looking forward to >> building a limited(*) image with just and only the things I rely on. >> >> One of the thing I need is a CI that triggers both on my code releases >> and any Pharo update (including the stable ones) since even stable >> releases may change core APIs. >> >> > Anyway, there are lovers and haters of every language. >> >> That I can agree with :) >> >> > Some people even >> > give dislikes to videos on YouTube that show how veterinarians heal >> cats... >> > >> > All the best >> > Alex >> >> Regards, >> >> Thierry >> >> (*) I did try with the minimal image, and the tools are clearly limiting. >> >> > On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 at 17:27, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com >> > <mailto:stepharo.self@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > >> > I tend to not care about people pissing on me via a pseudo. This is >> > too easy and too microscopic to have any value. >> > Thanks Philippe, Luke and Ben because you use your real names. >> > >> > On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:07 PM, Esteban Lorenzano >> > <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > > Hi, >> > > >> > > yesterday someone posted an article on HN about the Pharo MOOC >> > and there has >> > > been some negative posts there. >> > > I would like to call people who can have the time to answer there >> > and help >> > > to explain better and also contribute to contest that FUD >> > someones (we know >> > > who they areâ¦ sames as always) are spreading. >> > > >> > > here the link : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16754872 >> > > >> > > (this is not loosing time, people searching for Pharo will likely >> > see this >> > > kind of messagesâ¦ at least we need to offer our point of view) >> > > >> > > cheers! >> > > Esteban >> > >> > -- >> > Cheers, >> > Alex >> >> >>

April 7, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] call for help: answer on HN :)

by phil＠highoctane.be

interruptible.. yes! On Sat, Apr 7, 2018, 19:10 Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Alex, > > Le 07/04/2018 Ã 17:48, Aliaksei Syrel a Ã©crit : > > Hi > > > > Here is a link to a report about their experience with Pharo: > > https://gitlab.fit.cvut.cz/taibrmar/sokoban-using-bloc > > > > There definitely exist things that should be improved. It is a pity when > > tiny âminorâ issues leave such an unpleasant aftertaste. > > Some of them are, sadly, quite unacceptable, IMHO. > > I would really dream of a stable, correctly interruptible (i.e. a Cmd-. > that really works), limited Pharo core. That would help development so > significantly and allow more experiments. > > I solve that by making stuff that distance itself as much as possible > from a lot of the Pharo stuff that evolves far too much, far too fast to > be relied upon (widgets, graphics, editors), and I'm looking forward to > building a limited(*) image with just and only the things I rely on. > > One of the thing I need is a CI that triggers both on my code releases > and any Pharo update (including the stable ones) since even stable > releases may change core APIs. > > > Anyway, there are lovers and haters of every language. > > That I can agree with :) > > > Some people even > > give dislikes to videos on YouTube that show how veterinarians heal > cats... > > > > All the best > > Alex > > Regards, > > Thierry > > (*) I did try with the minimal image, and the tools are clearly limiting. > > > On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 at 17:27, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com > > <mailto:stepharo.self@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > I tend to not care about people pissing on me via a pseudo. This is > > too easy and too microscopic to have any value. > > Thanks Philippe, Luke and Ben because you use your real names. > > > > On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:07 PM, Esteban Lorenzano > > <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > yesterday someone posted an article on HN about the Pharo MOOC > > and there has > > > been some negative posts there. > > > I would like to call people who can have the time to answer there > > and help > > > to explain better and also contribute to contest that FUD > > someones (we know > > > who they areâ¦ sames as always) are spreading. > > > > > > here the link : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16754872 > > > > > > (this is not loosing time, people searching for Pharo will likely > > see this > > > kind of messagesâ¦ at least we need to offer our point of view) > > > > > > cheers! > > > Esteban > > > > -- > > Cheers, > > Alex > > >

April 7, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] call for help: answer on HN :)

by Thierry Goubier

Hi Alex, Le 07/04/2018 Ã 17:48, Aliaksei Syrel a Ã©critÂ : > Hi > > Here is a link to a report about their experience with Pharo: > https://gitlab.fit.cvut.cz/taibrmar/sokoban-using-bloc > > There definitely exist things that should be improved. It is a pity when > tiny âminorâ issues leave such an unpleasant aftertaste. Some of them are, sadly, quite unacceptable, IMHO. I would really dream of a stable, correctly interruptible (i.e. a Cmd-. that really works), limited Pharo core. That would help development so significantly and allow more experiments. I solve that by making stuff that distance itself as much as possible from a lot of the Pharo stuff that evolves far too much, far too fast to be relied upon (widgets, graphics, editors), and I'm looking forward to building a limited(*) image with just and only the things I rely on. One of the thing I need is a CI that triggers both on my code releases and any Pharo update (including the stable ones) since even stable releases may change core APIs. > Anyway, there are lovers and haters of every language. That I can agree with :) > Some people even > give dislikes to videos on YouTube that show how veterinarians heal cats... > > All the best > Alex Regards, Thierry (*) I did try with the minimal image, and the tools are clearly limiting. > On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 at 17:27, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com > <mailto:stepharo.self@gmail.com>> wrote: > > I tend to not care about people pissing on me via a pseudo. This is > too easy and too microscopic to have any value. > Thanks Philippe, Luke and Ben because you use your real names. > > On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:07 PM, Esteban Lorenzano > <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > yesterday someone posted an article on HN about the Pharo MOOC > and there has > > been some negative posts there. > > I would like to call people who can have the time to answer there > and help > > to explain better and also contribute to contest that FUD > someones (we know > > who they areâ¦ sames as always) are spreading. > > > > here the link : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16754872 > > > > (this is not loosing time, people searching for Pharo will likely > see this > > kind of messagesâ¦ at least we need to offer our point of view) > > > > cheers! > > Esteban > > -- > Cheers, > Alex

April 7, 2018

[ann] gt diagrammer

by Tudor Girba

Hi, We are happy to announce an initial version of GT Diagrammer, an engine for constructing diagrams interactively. This is the newest addition to the next generation GT built on Bloc. It looks like this: https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/976341449267531776 We chose to work on Diagrammer for multiple reasons. First, developers often need to create hand built diagrams to communicate intentions, and an integrated experience should not require us to leave our environment to create them. At the same time, Diagrammer is an application that requires a widgets and interactions, and thus it is a nice exercise for Bloc and Brick. One requirement we had from the beginning was to make it work with any Bloc element. This means that the editing part had to be reasonably generic. To this end, we now have elements that can define visual editors. This is somewhat a combination between Magritte descriptions, and inspector extensions. An interesting side effect is that now we can edit visual properties when inspecting any element. In other words, we got the basic infrastructure of a UI painter. It looks like this: https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/982656456968241152 The user interface essentially relies on two widgets: scrollable list and toggle button. While the visual look of the toggle button is inspired from material design, the most interesting part is that now we have an implementation for controlling looks per element instance. A key issue here is that looks can react to events coming from the element and inject visual attributes and possible even change behavior (for example, changing an icon while pressing a button). We will post more about looks soon. We now also have a nice solution for overlays. For example, we have an overlay showing selection and an overlay for resizing elements. Perhaps less obvious, Diagrammer also offers a basic infrastructure for the area of visual languages. As Diagrammer works with any Bloc elements, we can simply create dedicated visual elements. As an example, Diagrammer comes with an implementation of a UML class figure. Furthermore, as the functionality does not impose a specific model, custom language semantics can be mapped on visual actions. There are several things to do still for it to become a mature solution. An important next step is to serialize a diagram scene in a reproducible manner. Currently, the diagram (or any element) can be exported as pdf (https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/976580153802358786) svg (https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/976578060429484032) png, gif or jpeg by directly using the low level canvas. However, for the diagram to be truly useful we need to store the result in either code or another reloadable form such as STON. Other future directions are related to figure controlling (for example, custom anchors or line bending points) and to enhanced editors. To play with it, the easiest way is to download the new GT in a Pharo 6.1 image: Metacello new baseline: 'GToolkit'; repository: 'github://feenkcom/gtoolkit/src'; load. And then inspect: GtDiagrammerElement new Cheers, The feenk team -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Presenting is storytelling."

April 7, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] call for help: answer on HN :)

by Stephane Ducasse

You see I told them NOT to use github. I told them that Bloc was alpha. They got a large list of topics and could have picked another one. Now of course we should improve and they too. So personally I do not care. Stef On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Aliaksei Syrel <alex.syrel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi > > Here is a link to a report about their experience with Pharo: > https://gitlab.fit.cvut.cz/taibrmar/sokoban-using-bloc > > There definitely exist things that should be improved. It is a pity when > tiny âminorâ issues leave such an unpleasant aftertaste. > > Anyway, there are lovers and haters of every language. Some people even give > dislikes to videos on YouTube that show how veterinarians heal cats... > > All the best > Alex > > On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 at 17:27, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> I tend to not care about people pissing on me via a pseudo. This is >> too easy and too microscopic to have any value. >> Thanks Philippe, Luke and Ben because you use your real names. >> >> On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:07 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > yesterday someone posted an article on HN about the Pharo MOOC and there >> > has >> > been some negative posts there. >> > I would like to call people who can have the time to answer there and >> > help >> > to explain better and also contribute to contest that FUD someones (we >> > know >> > who they areâ¦ sames as always) are spreading. >> > >> > here the link : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16754872 >> > >> > (this is not loosing time, people searching for Pharo will likely see >> > this >> > kind of messagesâ¦ at least we need to offer our point of view) >> > >> > cheers! >> > Esteban >> > -- > Cheers, > Alex

April 7, 2018

Did magritte change? Magritte-Morph-SeasnDeNigris.95 is not found

by Stephane Ducasse

Because now when I load pillar Metacello new baseline: 'Pillar'; repository: 'github://pillar-markup/pillar:newpipeline/src'; load I get an error because Magritte-MOrph-SeasnDeNigris.95 is not found So I cannot build pillar anymore! :(

April 7, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] call for help: answer on HN :)

by Serge Stinckwich

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Aliaksei Syrel <alex.syrel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi > > Here is a link to a report about their experience with Pharo: > https://gitlab.fit.cvut.cz/taibrmar/sokoban-using-bloc > > There definitely exist things that should be improved. It is a pity when > tiny âminorâ issues leave such an unpleasant aftertaste. > > âYes minor details kill most of the time the experience of new learners. For more experienced people like us, we know how to avoid them :-) Maybe specific sprints should be done to take care of some of them ? â âRegards,â -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (SU/IRD/UY1) "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute."http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

April 7, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] call for help: answer on HN :)

by Aliaksei Syrel

Hi Here is a link to a report about their experience with Pharo: https://gitlab.fit.cvut.cz/taibrmar/sokoban-using-bloc There definitely exist things that should be improved. It is a pity when tiny âminorâ issues leave such an unpleasant aftertaste. Anyway, there are lovers and haters of every language. Some people even give dislikes to videos on YouTube that show how veterinarians heal cats... All the best Alex On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 at 17:27, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I tend to not care about people pissing on me via a pseudo. This is > too easy and too microscopic to have any value. > Thanks Philippe, Luke and Ben because you use your real names. > > On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:07 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > yesterday someone posted an article on HN about the Pharo MOOC and there > has > > been some negative posts there. > > I would like to call people who can have the time to answer there and > help > > to explain better and also contribute to contest that FUD someones (we > know > > who they areâ¦ sames as always) are spreading. > > > > here the link : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16754872 > > > > (this is not loosing time, people searching for Pharo will likely see > this > > kind of messagesâ¦ at least we need to offer our point of view) > > > > cheers! > > Esteban > > -- Cheers, Alex

April 7, 2018